CX500 water out the exhaust, and looking for a CX500 short block

[Dumptruck]

Well, I've replaced both head gaskets on a CX500 I've been working on but I'm still getting vapor out the tail pipes once the bike warms up.  I'm going try a few more things, but I think I might be facing more serious motor or existential issues (such as the motor not being coaxed into acting proper since there is no spare motor around ready to take its place).  I'm going to do a bubble check in the radiator, but last night's round of joy rides produced no appreciable loss in coolant, where as pre-headgasket replacement, there was about half a liter of extra stuff in the oil all from around the block and idling in the garage (put in 2.5L oil, took out 3L cafe con leche).

Also, am I correct in assuming that the only way for water to get into the combustion chamber is through the water jacket around the head and block (cracked head, cracked block, bad gasket seal)?

[kenneth kales]

Since you are not losing coolant and the engine is not overheating you may have residule moisture in the exhaust and it just needs to get hot for a good while to burn out. We did an engine rebuild on an Alfa Romeo that had broken rings. When we started the new engine it smoked for a long time,making us think we did something wrong. After 2 or three hours of runing the smoking completely dissapeared.

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[Rick LEFAUVE]

Is there a seal on the water pump shaft?  Sometimes (like in a Beta Zero trials bike) the shaft is driven off the clutch in the gear box and has some oil seals between the impeller (or fan as the Italians call it) and the drive.

-Rick

 

From: chivi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:chivi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dumptruck
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:58 AM
To: chivi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [ChiVinMoto]: CX500 water out the exhaust, and looking for a CX500 short block

 

Well, I've replaced both head gaskets on a CX500 I've been working on but I'm still getting vapor out the tail pipes once the bike warms up.  I'm going try a few more things, but I think I might be facing more serious motor or existential issues (such as the motor not being coaxed into acting proper since there is no spare motor around ready to take its place).  I'm going to do a bubble check in the radiator, but last night's round of joy rides produced no appreciable loss in coolant, where as pre-headgasket replacement, there was about half a liter of extra stuff in the oil all from around the block and idling in the garage (put in 2.5L oil, took out 3L cafe con leche).

 

Also, am I correct in assuming that the only way for water to get into the combustion chamber is through the water jacket around the head and block (cracked head, cracked block, bad gasket seal)?

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[Dumptruck]

There is a set of seals on the CX between oil and water sides of the coolant pump.  A bad seal could very easily translate into water in the oil, but would that then lead to the plume of vapor out the tailpipe?

[Vince Strazzabosco]

It may be a help to take the bike out for a decent ride, at speed/under load to get it completely up to temperature and burn off all the condensation.   Just leaving a water cooled engine running at idle for a long period of time really doesn't bring it up to temperature throughout. vince --- On Wed, 8/15/12, Dumptruck <an...@chicagobikepolo.com> wrote:

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[Jordan Liebman]

Rick, Dumptruck et al. The CX/GL500-650 engines have a mechanical seal by the impeller, which is composite ceramic/rubber and is spring loaded and keeps the coolant in.  Those seals DO go bad sometimes just from sitting. I have two of them presently reserved for a GL650i engine rebuild.  There is an identical part from Yamaha that is cheaper than the Honda part, FYI.  

If you clean up around the water pump really good (follow the tubes on top of the engine) watch for coolant seepage out of a weep hole.  You can only use distilled water and silicate free coolant for aluminum engine blocks with the CX/GLs.  If you don't, you'll exacerbate corrosion which will destroy that seal as well as other parts of the engine.  

If your bike has a temperature gauge, you should take it out for a ride and watch for fluctuations or spikes in temperature.  If it does not stabilize, I would assume that the culprit will be the mechanical seal.  The system will not pressurize as it should if the seal goes bad.

It IS possible to replace the seal with the engine IN the bike, but it will take you nearly as long and there's a chance you'll mess up the seal in the process if you don't take the engine out.  Not that big of a deal on a CX. Bigger deal on a touring model.

Rick, although the first motorcycle I ever owned was a 1967 Moto Beta, I am not any sort of expert on Beta.  However, after reading your original post, my first guess was a mechanical seal just like this CX one I am describing here.  

PS - You both should get together and do them under the same roof, like some sort of ceremony.  Light some candles, chant something, then drop your engines.

Good luck.
 

Beer Jordan

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From: Vince Strazzabosco <vstraz...@yahoo.com>
To: chivi...@googlegroups.com; an...@chicagobikepolo.com
Sent: Wed, August 15, 2012 12:56:58 PM

[Jordan Liebman]

PPS. Blutoe, where are you man.  This is your genre.
 

Beer Jordan

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From: Jordan Liebman <polis...@yahoo.com>
To: chivi...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, August 15, 2012 5:02:47 PM

[Scott Hollander]

 

dUMP truck,

remove your mufflers and set on end - you may have rain water trapped that never exited the weep holes

with mufflers removed go for a ride and sound like a harley - you may have H2O trapped in your exhaust collector - blow it out on the road wearing your red bandanna

if your mechanical (ceramic) water pump seal would be leaking you should see dripping of a liquid sebaceous ooze from the weep hole drilled gallery under the rear timing cover

have you flushed your cooling system? remove CAREFULLY the plastic "(probably) radiator drain plug to drain system [open radiator cap to help] save the ejaculate and inspect for oil in water. reinstall radiator drain plug use prestone flush kit [cheap] follow directions - drain and reinspect ejectamenta for oil in flush. refill system with 50/50 premix SILICATE FREE anti freeze and fill remote reservoir to fill line. check radiator cap for good pressure seal.

i have a spare engine and a spare engine without timing cover missing some drive chain - hoe hoe i'm in iowa tho but 125 miles away from TWALD

make sure you re valve clearance if you replaced head gaskets as well as adjusting timing chain adjuster bolt. did you re-torque head bolts after running from gasket replacement?

hey polish beer tell me more, [tell me more, did you go very far] about how you performed any of the "triple bypass" {mechanical H2O seal, timing chain adjuster pawl mechanism and alternator coil} IN THE FRAME did you remove rear wheel, rear final drive, drive shaft, rear swing arm / propeller shaft tunnel, battery tray and THEN the rear timing cover to gain access to the uterus? Yes harder on the GL mono shocks - I have removed and rebuilt mono pro link and headers and exhausts had to be removed from GL 650 silverwing interstate.

dump truck - turn your CX into a track bike and buy either of my 2 - 78 cx 500 super sport or my 82 gl 500 silverwing interstate super sport unique and special mods

 

Regards

 

Blutoe

[Jordan Liebman]

Blutoe, etc.

GL/CX...

Nope, never did it with the engine in the frame but I've read of people who were stubborn enough to prove that it can be done.  I don't want to try it in frame, monoshock or not.  Engines come out, engines go in.  The brain is the biggest obstacle in that process.

 

Beer Jordan AkA polishbeer

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From: Scott Hollander <scott.h...@yahoo.com>
To: "chivi...@googlegroups.com" <chivi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, August 15, 2012 8:49:52 PM

[Dumptruck]

After taking the bike out to garage night, it would appear that for now, the vapor was leftover coolant in the exhaust system.  I left a nice vapor trail from Chicago to Lombard, and from Lombard on to Geneva had nothing coming out of the pipes.  The pump looks ok for now and there's no new coolant in the bottle or on the motor.  The interstate trip home went fine and the bike performed as well as could be expected.  Thanks all!

[Bryan O'Shaughnessy]

Don't forget to check coolant level after the motor cycles cold/hot/cold a couple times.  ---Bryan O

--- On Thu, 8/16/12, Dumptruck <an...@chicagobikepolo.com> wrote:

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