CB360T Charging Issues

[Colin Santangelo]

Hello,

I am new to ChiVinMoto, as well as owning a motorcycle. I recently picked up a 1975 Honda CB 360T. I know that there are haters out here, but unbeknownst to this I got it as a first bike. I realize there are several issues with this model. The first being a recall on the cam chain tensioner guide, which I had replaced with one from Common Motor Collective (http://www.common-motor.com/honda-360-cam-chain-tensioner). I feel a lot safer after this has been done. Does anyone know the life on these before they should be replaced again? The second issue I had that seems fairly common with the model was a cracked top triple tree. I managed to find a replacement off ebay, and was sure to include the space washers upon reinstallation. I thought all was well, but once I got the bike back from the shop, another issue has come up. 

When I bought the bike, the guy that sold it to me had installed a brand new battery. Voltage was great, and I drove the bike home from Milwaukee to Chicago with zero problems the entire way. However, recently I am experiencing a loss of power when pulling out in first gear, and at the low end of all other gears. It's like the bike is not getting enough juice. I did some research and apparently another issue (as with other CBs) is that the charging system may not be charging the battery. There is a possibility that it is actually draining it in low rpms, and even when just sitting. I took a few readings today and here is what I got:

Bike completely off - 11.44

At Idle (900-1000rpm) 9.8 and slightly dropping

Reved to 3000 rpm - 11.38

I also checked the continuity and it was all good. 

As you can see these numbers are less that promising.  I called my mechanic and he suggested charging the battery dropping it back in the bike turning the lights on for 15 mins and taking another reading to determine if the battery is bad. I am going to do this, but my concern is that if the charging system is faulty, and I do put a new battery in, it will just run it dry as well. I found a replacement charging system here: http://4into1.com/ricks-high-output-charging-kit-rectifier-regulator-and-stator-combo-honda-cb350-cb360/ that's supposed to alleviate this issue. 

Does anyone know about this? I'm trying to weigh my options/ figure out if that is indeed the problem before I pull the trigger on a $200 part plus labor to get it installed and timed perfectly. 

Also, anyone out there owning a 360t with any other heads up information would be great!

Thanks so much everyone!

-Colin S. 

[YMRacing]

Rick's is the way to go.  Product is good and he stands behind them. 

[Colin Santangelo]

Ok, I'll look into it. Apparently, this problem is common. Do you know if any retiming is required in replacing the charing system? 

[Colin Santangelo]

Also, anyone know of where to get a new alternator rotor as well? Feel like while I'm replacing shit, might as well go all the way. 

[takereasy Dave CB200]

Colin, did you check the alternator/stator condition directly already?  Can your testing meter also test AC voltage, or just DC? If you unplug the connector coming out of the lower rear of the engine, you should be able to test AC voltage coming directly off the engine's alternator across the pink/yellow/white wires there. I don't remember the specs off the top of my head, I think around 20 volts AC (double check the manuals) at idle, then go up as you rev.  Google or search around for the test procedure. 

If you have good output from the alternator, and assuming all the wiring and connections are clean/intact and there's nothing weird draining the system (big assumptions), then a common problem is the rectifier, followed by battery itself or the regulator.  Start off any testing with a good battery charged up to voltage in the mid-12's.   Upgrading to a modern rectifier is a good upgrade regardless, and pretty cheap compared to the whole charging system.

-Dave

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:43:58 PM UTC-5, Colin Santangelo wrote:

[Colin Santangelo]

I am planning on checking the alternator/stator condition this week before I purchase any things. My meter can do AC, yes. I did read that the rectifier/regulator my solve the problem alone so I was going to look into replacing that. Any suggestions on those?

[Max Forster]

I don't think you can fully test the output of the coils by just
hooking up a meter. It'll confirm it's not dead, but voltage reading
won't be accurate. You need to test it under load.

This page has a complete procedure for testing a SOHC4 charging system
including how to properly test the coils. The SOHC4's use an
electromagnet for the rotor, but the stator coil test should be the
same.

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/SOHCcharging.html

Max

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[Matt Joy]

As a certified 360 hater and aficionado of it's superior predecessor I'm going to offer some wisdom.

The 360 is an inherently flawed design. No matter how much money and time you throw at it, it will never be especially good or reliable.

Honda made some really great parallel twins, just not after 1973. If you happen to be stuck with one of the latter, just enjoy it for what it is and when it dies get something different.

There are some really great alternatives, for instance:

Once Suzuki switched over to 4 strokes, they really picked up where Honda left off with fun reliable small displacement twins.

-matte

[scott.h...@yahoo.com]

Mattman,

What about attempting to shoe horn in a late '60's pre '73 CB 450 brown bomber mill into the CB 360?

Selfish question since I have a good 450 in my garage covered on a dolly.

Regards

Blutoe on the unemployment dole

Sent from my iPhone

[Matt Joy]

Bluetoe

I would think your idea is possible but I can also think of two issues off the top of my head you might be up against.

the first being the height of the 450 mill vs the 360. I recall the 450 as being a bit taller with it being a longer stroke motor with that big torsion spring head.

also, the 360 has an un-equal height lower frame cradle. so you're going to be doing quite a bit of fab to make the mounting holes line up.

besides that, the 360 frame was probably the only redeeming feature of the whole bike. It has better (stiffer) swing arm mounts than both the 350 and 450 twins.

matte

---

From: "scott.h...@yahoo.com" <scott.h...@yahoo.com>
To: Matt Joy <matte...@chicagorats.com>
Cc: ChiVinMoto - Chicago Vintage Motorcyclists <chivi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ChiVinMoto]: Re: CB360T Charging Issues

[Colin Santangelo]

Well, I have some new information: The guy I bought the bike from installed a new regulator and battery on the bike. He suggested the stator being the likely culprit for my charging issues. If I do end up having to replace this part, does anyone know of any good options out there aside from the Rick's system? Also, is there any re-timing that needs to be done with this model when swapping that out? 

On a side note, slightly bummed this model seems to be a f*ck. Anyone out there actually have a positive experience with this bike?

[Colin Santangelo]

Oh, also when I bought the bike it did not have the horn, but all of the wiring was there. I went ahead and popped in a horn from dimecitycycles. Probably a shot in the dark here, but maybe it's responsible for some sort of parasitic draw and that's why it was off? 

[Matt Joy]

Unfortunately, timing is one of the bikes many issues.

The way the points plate is designed, with only one side being adjustable, it's nearly impossible to get the timing right on both cylinders.

Also if the bike has the original cam chain and tensioner, you will have to adjust for the additional lash/slop in the chain. So your best bet is to set both sides a little off or one side good and the other retarded.

matte

---

From: Colin Santangelo <coli...@gmail.com>
To: chivi...@googlegroups.com
Cc: matte...@chicagorats.com; scott.h...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:38 AM

Subject: Re: [ChiVinMoto]: Re: CB360T Charging Issues

[Bob Burns]

I've seen exactly two CB360s that weren't junk. Both were bone stock unmolested examples. 

One was a red one owned by a friend as a first bike. Outgrown and sold. 

The other was a bike I was given for the cost of picking it up. Title and everything. I evicted the mice from the airbox, replaced the air filter, cleaned the carb, burned the hell out of my right leg on a test ride, and then sold it to a buddy of mine. He sold it to Matt Crawford. Matt used it as a major theme in his book "Shop Class as Soul Craft" which is on my nightstand,  I'm about 6 pages into it. 

I was gifted another CB360 that was a godawful pile of aborted Café Racer. I finished it off, made it run as good as it was ever going to, and sold it to some hipster for way too much money. No idea what happened to it. Or him. 

I've worked on a few others,  enough to know that they're just horrible motorcycles. Possibly the worst thing Honda did in the 1970's (three way tie with the CB500T and the first year of the DOHC CB750) and Mitch that's your cue. 

Speaking of motorcycling authors, Peter Egan has a great expression for these kinds of things. An Honest Motorcycle. A motorcycle that rewards your efforts. You take care of it and it responds by being reliable and enjoyable. 

I'll take the liberty of disagreeing with my fellow Certified CB360 Hater Matt.  The frame isn't the best part of the CB360. The front end is. Because you can unbolt it and stick it on any of several other Hondas. 

-Bob

-------- Original message --------
From: Colin Santangelo <coli...@gmail.com>
Date: 05/13/2015 10:38 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: chivi...@googlegroups.com
Cc: matte...@chicagorats.com, scott.h...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [ChiVinMoto]: Re: CB360T Charging Issues

Well, I have some new information: The guy I bought the bike from installed a new regulator and battery on the bike. He suggested the stator being the likely culprit for my charging issues. If I do end up having to replace this part, does anyone know of any good options out there aside from the Rick's system? Also, is there any re-timing that needs to be done with this model when swapping that out? 

On a side note, slightly bummed this model seems to be a f*ck. Anyone out there actually have a positive experience with this bike?

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