My imagination of Aikido basics
Sir Dracul@
When the first time I've heard that we are going to be doing some
basics at the beginning of each class, I got quite happy that I'm
going to be able to build a solid background for the more advanced
techniques. But seems that my imagination of basics was a bit
different. As my idea of basic stuff is to do (at least) :
- ikkyo
- nikyo
- sankyo
- yonkyo
- gokyo
Maybe seems to be boring but I'm sure that a 5-7 minutes at the
beginning of the class would be beneficial for all of the students
(maybe in a form of a kata so it would be more interesting). The
reason why I'm writing this is my recent squash experience. I've been
asked by my partner how do I know when to change the grip type and to
which type to change. My reply was that I don't know. So while playing
I had a closer look at what my right hand is doing. And I found out
that is does lots of complicated wrist twists, turns, strange moves
etc etc I was amazed that my hand does all of this without me even
thinking it (like it had a brain of its own), as I keep my focus on
the ball and the tactics when playing. Seems like my polish tennis
coach wasn't that crazy after all with all of those boring exercises I
was given to do.
So back to Aikido - I would like to get all of those five basic
techniques to a similar level so I don't have to think about them when
I'm doing them. So every time I will be asked to do for example yonkyo
I will do it without a second of a delay. Or when a bigger technique
involves a nikyo somewhere in the end, then that will be the part I
know I will not have to worried about as it will automatic. The goal
will be to make it like breathing - no one is thinking about it but we
do it all the time.
Waiting for comments
--regards
CC
John
Well, I agree with you but also disagree :) There are basics and then
there are basics. We do ikkyo on every single class without fail,
always have, always will in all likelihood. It lends itself well to
most attacks and is (I think) the technique that is the 'one' to
master, not that anyone ever will, lol . Ikkyo and gokyo are pretty
much identical, depending on application and attack of course. Usually
you can make any technique using ikkyo as the basis. To me all of
these are the basic techniques, however there are way more basic
things which exist in aikido - body movements, attacks/grabs (even
just the names), they all come before and are, to me at least, as
important if not more important than the basic techniques themselves.
How many times when someone asks for kousadori does someone grab the
wrong side and that's before we talk about it being called ai hanmi
katatedori (same thing). Ex phoenix people get excused as they get
them the wrong way round from day one ;) and they still call them the
wrong thing to this day (no offence to anyone from the phoenix on
here).
So to me, we have basics, basic techniques, basic body movements etc.
All need to be practised and all are. I see you often enough trying to
get one technique, and something else drops in, you don't stop, you
continue and a technique appears, usually through the movement of
ikkyo - body geashi or iriminage seem to be favoured by you - that to
me is the signs of someone who's got the basics down, or is at least
starting to get them. Tom, my first teacher for a long time was a big
exponent of getting the flow right, techniques come later, spirit is
more important. I don't think he'd be turning in his grave that much
in watching us somehow :).
The whole point of the focus classes was to cover things like this is
detail but they get cancelled half the time - we changed the Saturday
class times to suit as people said they wanted them earlier and the
numbers dropped for those who could attend. Get more people to attend,
get more practice.
As someone I know used to be fond of saying, that's great - now get
back on the mat and train, you're grading in June.
__________
Regards,
John.
David
about ai hanmi katatedori had me chuckling. Sensei Jones was at the
Phoenix last weekend and asked for 'gyaku hanmi katatedori' -- guess
which hand everyone grabbed?
With regards to basics, I too try to focus on the general flow. 'Try'
being the operative word, but still... I think of it like drawing a
basic outline before sketching in the detail. You need that physical/
metaphorical 'outline' or boundary to provide a good basis for
movement and detail within its confines. There's a risk of practising
the wrist locks (for example) too much and then having no means to
practically apply them. If I can put on a mean kotegaeshi but can't
perform tai sabaki right, I'll only be weakening my own position if I
try to do anything with tenkan (in my mind's eye I can see the
technique I'm picturing being reversed into ikkyo against me).
Just my thoughts.
Meknassi Aziz
I'd advice you get your coffees first, I got mine already lol
IMHO, basics are even lower level than the 5 basics, what I mean is,
what we are doing is budo (martial art) although we are not learning how
to kill someone or defend ourselves per se, we are still practicing an
art of budo,
Aikido being purely believed to be a reaction to an action (a concept
that contradicts the saying :the best defence is offence) well it
doesn't entirely contradict it because if you initiate the attack
"atemi" then the tables turn and it becomes an action to a reaction
which can be advantageous. The above is still in the spirit of budo.
Aikidokas tend to be compliant in their practice which is a good thing
as they learn to be a good Ukes. However this takes away a bit of
reality and I don't mean street fight by the word reality.
Where I am taking this? to know how to react or act, the basics of
attacking and moving should be understood and practiced and in place
before moving on or along side learning the basics.
How many times we see tsuki coming with open hand, or even when it is
closed the index with the middle knuckles and the wrist are not in line?
you don't have to do anything but just stand in front of Uke for them to
be on the floor because of wrist pain. Self inflicted.
One thing we try to get across is good Ukeing, this doesn't mean to fall
on a blow but to feel every part of your body and control it to change
direction at a very short notice (a split second) strong yet flexible.
(which also helps in counter techniques)
I think it depends on the class, if they are total beginners I would
start them on how to attack first with upper as well as lower body
parts, diversity of tai sabakis before moving on to the 5 basics on
grabs then to non grabs.
If the class is intermediate or advanced I would focus on shiwari waza
and hanmi handa shiwaza as the movements are restricting due to knees
articulation being out of the equation and therefore develop different
memory muscles, speed etc
Having done that, then I totally agree with the over all flow before
drilling into the nitty gritty bits.
Commander Crazy, as you said you trained a lot in tennis and because of
that your body developed a bank of memory muscles that had helped you in
your squash games, the same thing will happen in Aikido, in every lesson
there is at least one of the 5 basics, in time everything will fall into
place, you don't have to do them in order every time. One from today
another from another day, your body is learning. And you don't have to
call them basics, because sometimes what we think are basics is really
not.
One thing I would advise though, humbleness and ego control are a few of
the ultimate goal as to why we do what we do, but these should come from
power point not a weak one. Yes it maybe true that one can never master
one of the basics but you should give yourself a chance, remember that
the mind controls the body and not vice versa, if you keep saying to
yourself that you are not good at something, your mind will believe it
and your body will follow.
The basics will come to you, you may not realise how far you have come
but any us ( John, Toni and myself) can see it, from not being able to
roll to the stage where you are right now in a very short term is way
above basics, and if I may add (being the club's Uke after Leo is proof
of the above) Just chill, relax and enjoy the ride but thanks for
bringing this up, I believe John is trying to organise a teachers
meeting and maybe we can discuss how we can do more of basics or not :)
Apologies about length and sometimes off topic, I will just blame it on
this new coffee :)
More coffee
Kind regards
A
Hi everyone,
Waiting for comments
--regards
CC
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John
I'll translate -
shiwari waza - suwari waza (kneeling)
hanmi handa shiwaza - Hanmi handachi waza (one kneeling, one
standing).
All good points though. I think the general consensus is that body
movement is more basic than techniques themselves.
We're quite an open club (I'd like to think) so if you want to ever
look at something on a lesson - ask! Usually we try to incorporate it
unless there's already a particular topic we're trying to look into.
If Az is up tonight then hopefully he can take the last 30 mins,
Alwynn the first 30 mins and then grading stuff by me for 30 mins in
the middle - we need to really concentrate on the next set of gradings
coming up so I think the fist 30 minutes basic work on a class may
well have to be put on hold until June depending on how people are
getting on. Most people have done most of the techniques already
however :).
__________
Regards,
John.
Meknassi Aziz
patient with me lolol.
Which bit are you translating John? are you translating tomatoes
(American) with tomatoes (British)? Lol as non of them is Japanese lol
No seriously thanks for translating the Japanese words to their English
equivalent, I keep forgetting to do that:)
I agree John, openness is key strength of the club.
Thanks for the heads up though, I will do my best to be there tonight.
Hope to see you all tonight :)
-----Original Message-----
From: chish...@googlegroups.com [mailto:chish...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: 15 April 2010 11:20
To: Chishin Dojo Discussion Group
__________
Regards,
John.
John
Well, not much in aikido is usually black and white because of it's
very nature - I think it's one of it's strengths but... I like to try
and get the spelling at least partly right and make sure the terms
mean something ;)
shiwari would mean something like 7th sumo match or master sumo
match ;) whereas suwari indicates something on a mat combined with
sumo which makes sense (well, makes slightly more sense).
Gyaku hanmi katatedori is commonly used as is just katatedori and ai
hanmi katetedori is the same as kousadori - ikeda sensei uses
kousadori so it's good enough for me but I don't mind either term
being used. The bit before the term hanmi is only referring to posture
in any case and not the grab per se. Ai hanmi means uke and nage have
a mutual stance - they both have the same foot forward (eg. they have
their own right foot forward and not a mirror image) whereas gyaku
hamni means opposing stance and therefore means nage has right foot
forward then uke has left foot forward (mirror image). And there ends
todays lesson in japanese lolol.
__________
Regards,
John.
Sir Dracul@
Meknassi Aziz
Thanks for the Japanese lesson John,however, Shiwari can also means
breaking test.
Or if broken in two as shi=4 and wari is an informal way of saying
sorry.
Even worse, the word shi can also mean death which is why is not very
much in use unless for counting.
Translating Japanese to English, and vice versa, has always been
somewhat difficult. Since the Japanese language doesn't use Latin
alphabet, and the method of pronunciation is different, Americans have
tried to phonetically spell Japanese words. For this reason you may see
Japanese words spelled differently between reference books.
Being penda-lingual myself excluding the few lessons I had in Japanese
and Italian and the many Arabic dialects, I find that I say the words in
my head as they should be but when it comes to writing them in another
language there are no rules, as pronunciation depends on the
individual's interpretation in other words freestyle.
Not going far, if we look at French and English, two very similar
languages derived more or less from the same source:
A French would write tachi waza like this tashi waza and still be right.
Or another example:
Information (English)= Information (unformasseon) French. Even though I
tried to write it as it is spelled in French it is missing something the
"un" and the eon at the end which doesn't exist in the English language,
Someone would write it enformassione and still be right as long as it
can be read, While the French person would pronounce "information" as
"i"nform"a"shan" because they spell the letter I as e and a as ah.
similar things in the Japanese language to English or vice versa, like
the letter that sounds like em which is written like h. there is no
sound for it in the western world.
We are simply doing our best to translate ( pronounce) as close to the
truth as possible as you have stated.
Unfortunately I can't watch the clip on you tube as we can't access you
tube from work, I will have to wait until I get home.
-----Original Message-----
From: chish...@googlegroups.com [mailto:chish...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: 15 April 2010 12:04
To: Chishin Dojo Discussion Group
Subject: Re: My imagination of Aikido basics
LOL,
__________
Regards,
John.
--
John
definitely supposed to be spelt suwari and not spelt shiwari in this
case - it's directly translated as this by the Japanese and has been
for a long time. Although Japanese may not have a latin base
(obviously) it does have a westernised spelling system hence why
things should have a relatively uniform spelling method now. The
breaking test is more karate oriented and I can't see how that would
relate to suwari waza as su means mat, well, amongst another 5000
things ;). There was an interesting discussion somewhere on aikiweb
about all this and why shi isn't used in counting (yep, the death
thing). Brings a whole new meaning to shihan lol. Shi in terms of
numbers is usually replaced with yon (hence yonkyo and not shikyo),
and shichi would be 7 but shi when used with another word in my jisho
comes out as 7th something or other more often than 4.
G used to be used instead of K but again, loooooong time again (it's
not goshinage, it's koshinage (sorry david! lol)). Tissier sensei may
pronounce it one way (erm, usually he says tachi waza, well, last few
times I've trained with him he did), but definitely spells it tachi
waza (I have the DVD's in French). Mind you, he's fluent in Japanese.
It gets clearer... not... lol.
__________
Regards,
John.
John
the middle tonight to demonstrate the bit where he stands in the
middle and everyone circles around... Special is not good in this
case, lol.
___________
Regards,
John
Meknassi Aziz
Suri waza it is, can't fight the power of the jisho :) lol
-----Original Message-----
From: chish...@googlegroups.com [mailto:chish...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: 15 April 2010 16:07
To: Chishin Dojo Discussion Group
Subject: Re: My imagination of Aikido basics
__________
Regards,
John.
--
Meknassi Aziz
-----Original Message-----
From: chish...@googlegroups.com [mailto:chish...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: 15 April 2010 16:13
To: Chishin Dojo Discussion Group
Subject: Re: My imagination of Aikido basics
___________
Regards,
John
--
Sir Dracul@
not that I don't believe in myself. I think that I will get my head
around and master the techniques in my unique way, in a way my body
moves and adjusts. I believe it will take some time to create my own
basics on which the rest will be based around. And just to make one
thing clear - I would say that I'm the clubs first punching bag lol So
to conclude. Somewhere deep inside my head I believe that I will reach
to a point when I will be proud of myself. I'm a disciplined person
(in terms of sport related activities) and always try to practice 3
times a week regardless what is my mood or other factors that would
probably make other people not to attend a class (this is what my
tennis coach learned me - whatever happens, Your up for the training
Matthew).
Also many people recently go hyper crazy about boxing, muay thai and
mixed martial arts. I was thinking few times maybe to actually go and
practice something else. I've been told by few people that few months
of box or mma practice will give some real results, while (as I know
by my own experience) in Aikido it takes years and years of practice
and its not something that You can grasp in 6 months. I'm not a
fighter as I'm not > 6.3 foot tall, 16 stones of weight and (I think
the most important) don't have the will to take peoples heads off just
for fun. Also I know that the Aikido attacks are not real, and
probably its quite rare that someone will attack your wrists, or that
someone will put his entire motion / body weight to perform a punch.
Most likely they will keep a posture and keep themselfs balanced /
grounded. Most of the time they will try to smack you with they're
fists. Or they will do it in the most popular and rewarding way : six
(or more) against one. But on the other hand its a Martial Art. It can
get really messy (Martial) but also can be very fluent, controlled and
beautiful (Art). I've came across people with big EGOs and they're
argument against yours was a fist. Its not easy to be a foreigner, as
people (most of the time the young ones) tend to make stupid jokes /
comments about you and try to prove that they are much better then you
cause of the nationality (and that is most of the time the only
reason / argument). Also most of the time they will pick on someone
small - they are not that brave to attack a 6.5 foot guy as he could
potentially get angry and damage them :D So sometimes I think that a
skill of breaking jaws or knees would be very useful. Still, I'm
trying all my best to ignore such behavior. Hopefully I will be able
to practice Aikido when I will be 50 years old, as I can't imagine a
mma fighter to be all in one piece at that age :)
Anyways, I have to practice hard as John is forcing me (again) to
grade in June
John Burn
Oh, you're not (just) the clubs punch bag, you're also the kick bag ;).
Sent from my iPhone