Yamaha Symphonic Chorus

[Brian Scarano]

SoI started to research a bit in google, and Carach Angren keyboardist said in an interview that most of the orchestral parts are from playbacks(using sample libraries if I remember correctly), and he only touch the keyboard lightly in live shows,

Basic strings ensemle- ofcourse, pizzicato strings ensemble- OK, Tremolo strings- maybe(By the way, is there any point in tremolo strings patch if you can't control the speed of the tremolo so it will be synchronized with the tempo of the song?)

VSTs that do work well in live context simply not very comprehensive and doesn't contain all the instruments and articulations.Full strings ensemble spiccato, marcato, arco, espressivo staccato, and more? Forget about it, maybe 2-3 of those articulations, but no comprehensive set. But if no one really play those articulations live then maybe I'm good.

FYI, this track was recorded absolutely live using a Roland RD700GX, with custom-programmed sounds using velocity switching as described above. I'm pretty sure any modern Roland workstation such as the FA-06 could replicate this:

Your time here recently has been spent arguing/contradicting what people have been trying to tell you, so maybe you should dial back on the assumption, and increase the quiet reflection and contemplation.

I really wonder what patch he used with his Roland to achieve such an incredible and realistic strings sound, since all of Roland's romplers in the last 10 or 20 years have the same sounds(as far as I know), including their JV series and all of that.

No not all Roland rompler's have the same old sound set. They come up with new versions all the time with modeling technology added and new samples recorded at higher resolutions. Not all romplers have the same quality of components and sample size. Many new Roland products have the old samples and patches included. But they are always updating there sound sets adding new sounds.

You can take a 20 year old sample recorded in the highest fidelity available at the time and play it through their 20 yr old rompler and then play it using a modern workstation. They will not sound the same. The quality of the DA converters, EFX will make a huge difference. I have an FA-08 and the quality of the Super Natural sounds are very very good. It has one of the most realistic and playable nylon guitar sounds of any keyboard I have ever played. And I have a couple of real nylon stringed guitars to compare it to.

And for me, the main disadvantage with laptop rig is that I can't test most of those VST instruments before buying them, and I already wasted about 500-700 dollars in the last two years on stuff I would never use.

Sound demos are not enough because they are manipulative, but way way beyond that, you can never know how does it feels to play a virtual instrument until you are feeling it under your fingertips with your MIDI keyboard.

Anyhow, about the Kronos, I tried ir briefly few days ago in a musicians store far away from my town(I passed by), and I've found its Rompler sounds(HD-1 engine) incredibly good(as opposed to Roland FA I must say).

By the way, the Kronos action was surprisingly lovely(I played on 73 keys version, RH3 action). It doesn't feel like a real piano as like a high end Kawai, instead, it feels like another keyboard instrument in its own right, but a really cool keyboard instrument, and I always was fond of acoustic piano action or digital pianos that imitate that very good.

Funny you did not like most of FA acoustic instruments. Funny, in that, I saw the value of many of them vs Kronos. One exception is full [? 30/40 piece) orchestra sounds or medium/large ensembles. These might be minimal on the FA.

I still suggest, a keyboardist think think think , then define their requirements as a 1st step. With that list of 20 must haves and 10 ' nice to haves' its easier to weigh the merits of individual boards.

If I recall (it was recorded some years ago), most of the sounds in the track I linked to were derived from the SRX Orchestral expansion card, most of the sounds from which are incorporated into many recent Roland romplers.

If you learn how to play a little guitar, your 'keyboard guitar' work will be much more believable, because you become aware of the most common note combinations in chords, and what would be physically impossible to play.

Similarly, most examples of string sounds in keyboard demos sound awful because the player is using consecutive close triads. If you study scores, however, you will see that the individual components of chordings are usually very widely spaced, making those voicings challenging to play on a keyboard.

Listen as much as you can, and learn how to read and use scores. Repeated listening to a few short and relatively simple pieces at a time, slowly breaking them down, is probably preferable than attempting to analyse all ten Mahler symphonies.

P.S. If you have Spotify, here's a great album to listen to for deconstruction. The music is relatively lightweight and undemanding, but the orchestration is masterful and clearly delineated in the arrangements. Not a wasted note in sight.

As has been mentioned by previous replies. Any top of the line workstation from Kurzweil, Yamaha, Roland or Korg will do what you want. How close you get to what you want will depend on the amount of effort/time you are prepared to put into programming your combinations of sounds/splits/velocity zones/layers and what you're prepared to accept as a minor compromise on articulations etc etc because you are playing live. For example below are some links showing strings and vox/choir sounds of the Roland FA. There are so many individual sounds to scroll through and then you need to experiment with combinations/layering of those sounds. So that's hours and hours and hours of time and just to find the best combination for 2 types of sounds. Then you'll need to do the same with bell types sounds, organs, pianos etc etc. The holy grail of what will please you is definitely capable in all of these workstations.

Similarly, most examples of string sounds in keyboard demos sound awful because the player is using consecutive close triads. [...] But even hundreds of dollars' worth of Vienna Symphonic Library will sound like crud if you don't know how to play them.

Aidan's comment and recording reminds me all over again the most in-demand working KB players seem to be professionally curious because of their love for music - all sorts of genre, instruments, sounds, styles etc. How do I improve my synth string playing? How do I get this guitar patch to sound more authentic? Why does the Ennio Morricone's melodies sound like that? Why do great vocalists pronounce lyrics that way? What's so special about Frank Sinatra's phrasing? What's Junkie XL doing in his soundtrack arrangements? and so on.

Over the long haul it seems like it's one thing to learn stuff cause you have to, and another thing entirely to learn stuff about music because you are willing to be open to all sorts of new stuff and try to figure out why it sounds that way.

hag01, I'm glad you're open to Roland stuff after all - you'll benefit from being as open as possible to every manufacturer's set of sounds, and being willing to see if there's something useful. If someone can't find a musical use for a sound, I'd venture it was on them, not the sound.

Going a step further, I raise an eyebrow when someone freely admits they aren't open to listening to an entire genre of music, or dismisses an entire generation of music makers, etc. Different strokes, I suppose...but I think it's a wonderful thing to have all sorts of folks making music I don't immediately gravitate toward.

hag01, If you are thinking that you need to be able to play all kinds of wild articulations and symphonic instruments to play symphonic metal, I don't think that is the case. I don't know if you've been to see these bands live, but I've seen Nightwish half a dozen times or more, Within Temptation, Sonata Arctica, etc. The keys parts are almost 100% synth sounds. The orchestral parts are all flown in. The keys parts are 90% rhythm - often helping propel the track or provide hits, accents, etc. Much more percussive than legato. They often double what the orchestra is doing, but with much more cutting synth tones. Pads abound on intros, outros, and interludes. Pianos are often only for ballads or downtempo pieces. Bands like Nightwish use professional orchestrators and arrangers to prepare the material for recording and then have the orchestral parts played by a real orchestra for the album. These are more like "sound track" albums than any normal rock and roll record.

3a8082e126