POSIT we Update SIRE record on NW Nome & Tia; & REOPEN DAM on NW Kodiac

[Susan E Bragg]

Hi All;
I'm ready now to further discuss/Posit we Update SIRE record on Nome and Tia (to NW Riki or Rikki [of Bear Creek]); As WELL as Update DAM record on NW Kodiac to OPEN; as per Zoogen/UKC/COA documentation(s) prior, etc.

Are others yet ready or no?  Thanks, for I can make no further apologies for noting the sooner we Correct these also NW peds finally, the better off we'll be when MARS OS begins also analyzing breed alleles frequencies too, etc.  And I have no idea if ICB has completed their own Updated Analysis yet, but better they do it with also further corrected NW peds too finally, eh?  Best, Susan

P.S.  I'm also ready to revisit Updating ND Nugget pedigree at least, if and when others are.  To Add Victor's Kobuck as her documented (AND a continued statistically probable) SIRE then, aye.  If others are too, just shout.  I can say more when needed separate Subject that.  seb

[Susan E Bragg]

re: NW Kodiac ped
And to remain completely HONEST; STILL looks to me (IF the also Reconstruct for Cygnus at PEZ 20 is real...I forget if it is also Zoogen's or another's?); Like Cygnus is excluded; BUT Boney remains the possible sire there/then, based upon my also (Boney) reconstruct shared here earlier. 

It's just that I TOO have NOTHING further to POSIT yet on WHICH dam Kodiac is out of, aye.  Just please do recheck/Compare with me then on NW spreadsheet:
PEZ03, &
L9
Between Boney (reconstruct) & Kodiac then, for those who yet care to.  Again, I have NO idea where it leads, IF anywhere.  I'm just throwing it too back out here in open fashion(s).  In case it can mean more yet to others than I, etc. 

And if ANYONE hereon still has in fact DOCUMENTED proof of Date of permanent TRANSFER from ND to Hurricane on NW Kodiac; It could in fact still aid this genome for you to share it, thanks.  I KNOW all the oral accounts, of Joyce's & others; But what we need still is an also REAL transfer DOC on him then, if it yet exists.  Because Joyce never added that date in her OWN NW 'timeline'(s), etc.  My own best guesstimate remains she took possession of him at time of transfer of her pups back to Harry as stud fee for Kodiac then, in Winter/Spring '88.  That said; I still can NOT come up with a SINGLE IMAGE of Joyce WITH KODIAC prior to 1990 Roundup, if memory serves.  So this is a LOT OF TIME still (1988-1990) to close in on, trying to resource her 'Kodiac'.  best, Susan

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[Susan E Bragg]

re: date of transfer Proof on NW Kodiac (ND to Hurricane)
IF anyone finds an OUNCE of such evidence yet in 2016; Pls fwd it direct to Karen H and/or to this group, thanks.  For I'm not out for glory nor malice.  I'm out for more REALITY, yes; Without finally cutting and running away from this ancient NW puzzle too, aye. Because what there IS still, can help.  So those of you here which may have been early friends of Joyce in this breed; Please do DIG again, for whatever you can find which can point us better in 2016.  Old dated IMAGES; Old dated CLINICAL/Vet report(s) from Spring 1988 on, say, of her NW Kodiac, etc.  Thanks, Susan

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From: 'Susan E Bragg' via Chinook Pedigree Project <chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com>
To: Susan E. Bragg' via Chinook Pedigree Project <chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:44 PM
Subject: Fw: POSIT we Update SIRE record on NW Nome & Tia; & REOPEN DAM on NW Kodiac

[Karen Hinchy]

So, this is interesting.  When we first discussed the NW dogs, we talked about the UKC pedigrees (a real mess), the AKC pedigrees (blanket all dogs as full siblings) and the DNA results.  We elected to go with the AKC pedigrees that note all NW dogs as full siblings, despite (disputed!) DNA evidence that this is clearly not the case.  

I find the information from Rick Strle, whose reputation is solid and who got Riki in a single transfer from Ron to be compelling.  It should be noted that this information on Riki from Rick Strle actually supports the DNA results.  While I'd LOVE to have the UKC do DNA Parent Verification on Tia and Nome to definitively link them to Riki, at this point I think that noting their parents as North Wind Riki x Georgianna's Sheena is certainly not less accurate than the current pedigree we have for them, and likely it is a good deal MORE accurate.  I have actually made this change in my personal databases when evaluating COIs.

Kodiac, of course, is more complicated.  But IF we believe Rick about Riki, that supports the DNA evidence, which says that Kodiac is NOT the son of Georgianna's Sheena.  I can't figure out who Kodiac's parents might be, given the times he was handed off and the mutliple variable involved.  But - I agree that keeping his pedigree open, or at least opening the dam where DNA evidence has excluded Sheena is probably a more accurate version of Kodiac than the one we have now.

--

Karen Hinchy

Bashaba Chinooks
www.bashabachinooks.com

[Susan E Bragg]

Thanks, Karen.  I've already updated my dbase peds on Nome &Tia too, admittedly. 
Re: Kodiac
I agree opening his DAM is next step his pedigree.  As it's not right to exclude Cygnus as his sire yet; UNLESS we come up with probable DAM, I too think.  Also because the limited dna profiles we are working with on Boney and Cygnus remain wholly Reconstructs, aye. 

ALL I can say further this hour is; How MAYBE we missed a litter by Boney then, aye.  But I can't yet prove it either, exactly.  So Cygnus can stand still as also sire of Kodiac, aye.   Best, Susan

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From: Karen Hinchy <kcc...@gmail.com>

To: Susan E. Bragg' via Chinook Pedigree Project <chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: POSIT we Update SIRE record on NW Nome & Tia; & REOPEN DAM on NW Kodiac

[Ginger Corley]

I have an 1987 / 1988 original Chinook Club of America (the one Harry started, not the AKC parent club) membership booklet that has Joyce listed as owning North Wind Kodiac.  And I can swear that during conversations with her in 1988 she told me that she owned him and sent me photos of him.  I would have to dig them up and right now isn’t the best time for me to do so.

 

Ginger Corley

Rain Mountain Chinooks

established 1988

www.rainmountain.net

 

 

From: chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:00 PM
To: chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: POSIT we Update SIRE record on NW Nome & Tia; & REOPEN DAM on NW Kodiac

 

re: date of transfer Proof on NW Kodiac (ND to Hurricane)
IF anyone finds an OUNCE of such evidence yet in 2016; Pls fwd it direct to Karen H and/or to this group, thanks.  For I'm not out for glory nor malice.  I'm out for more REALITY, yes; Without finally cutting and running away from this ancient NW puzzle too, aye. Because what there IS still, can help.  So those of you here which may have been early friends of Joyce in this breed; Please do DIG again, for whatever you can find which can point us better in 2016.  Old dated IMAGES; Old dated CLINICAL/Vet report(s) from Spring 1988 on, say, of her NW Kodiac, etc.  Thanks, Susan

.

[Karen Hinchy]

That's very cool info, Ginger, would love to see any docs with the date when you have time to dig them out.  That would imply Joyce had Kodiac ever since the Ayla breeding, which would have been in September of 87.  Since there was such a gap in his breeding records, and since Joyce talked about getting Kodiac via air shipment, I thought he was some where else for some of those years before the 1993 breeding to Celina.

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[Susan E Bragg]

Yes, this would be excellent if Ginger could find that booklet and it's also dated! 

Again; ALL I know is; Joyce DID transfer back to Northdown (2) pups (1M 1F) from her first litter by Kodiac, sometime in or after January 1988.  But we need to peg the date of transfer on Kodiac himself better, if we can finally, aye.  It will help us know for sure whether we can (or cannot) also locate his most probable dam, in short.  Thanks, Susan

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From: Karen Hinchy <kcc...@gmail.com>

To: "chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com" <chinook-pedi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:11 PM