冰岛的银行 icesave 濒临破产 存取款网站发生挤兑暂停服务 政府接管
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wanghx
Oct 7, 2008, 12:49:20 PM10/7/08
to salon-...@googlegroups.com, Chinese...@googlegroups.com
今天有朋友电话通知，告诉 D，她在 icesave 存了一些钱。年息 5.2% 左右。她就去转出来了，充当了一个挤兑者。:)
具体是否能转账成功还要看后效。
然后路上听到新闻了，说网上银行服务都关闭了，冰岛政府接管了该银行。
一般银行如果破产，政府会担保赔付 2 万欧以下的存款。最近很多政府都提高了这一担保上限。据说爱尔兰政府全额担保境内银行存款。
这个流言很早就传播了，朋友说甚至冰岛政府都可能破产，那么担保也没用了。
icesave 总部在冰岛，但是在英国，荷兰都有运营。
最近荷兰比利时卢森堡合资的银行 Fortis 几乎要破产，也被挤兑了。政府赶紧接管，荷兰收购了 Fortis 的荷兰部分，大约一半。
http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2008/04/01/icesave-how-safe-are-your-savings-facts-and-myths/
Nothing sinister they are just using the infrastructure of another
bank, its pretty standard
然后路上听到新闻了，说网上银行服务都关闭了，冰岛政府接管了该银行。
wikipedia icesave 条目今天立刻更新了。
at least today newspaper said ducth customs can still withdraw money,
and someonse else recommende moneyyou, part of abnamro
at least today newspaper said ducth customs can still withdraw money,
and someonse else recommende moneyyou, part of abnamro
一般银行如果破产，政府会担保赔付 2 万欧以下的存款。最近很多政府都提高了这一担保上限。据说爱尔兰政府全额担保境内银行存款。
这个流言很早就传播了，朋友说甚至冰岛政府都可能破产，那么担保也没用了。
可怜的
icesave uk has prob but if iceland go bankrupt, uk government will
cover the first 18000 punds or so
最近荷兰比利时卢森堡合资的银行 Fortis 几乎要破产，也被挤兑了。政府赶紧接管，荷兰收购了 Fortis 的荷兰部分，大约一半。
Icesave: how safe
are your savings? Facts and myths
Tuesday April
1st, 2008
IMPORTANT
NOTE Oct 2008: The blog below was
written in April. It provides a background, but for all the latest
information - see the Are your
savings safe guide.
Icelandic bank Icesave’s been the subject of a few newspaper money section articles about limited withdrawals from its UK account with concerns about the credit crunch. Newspapers do enjoy stories of worry, doom and gloom, so my aim’s to take a detailed look at the bank; how your money is protected in it, and the safety issues to help you make up your own mind.
It’s a difficult call, and my aim is far more to give you the information needed to make a rational consumer decision rather than sway you. My view is in the summary at the end, but its your money, you need to make your own mind up!
Why this focus on Icesave?
My overall reason is because its cash ISA is currently one of my top picks (see top cash ISAs) and its savings account is still one of the highest interest payers (see top savings). Therefore it’s an account that many, choosing on standard MoneySaving terms, should be picking/using.
Yet with the credit crunch biting; it’s important to also consider wider issues. Before I go into those, it’d be useful if you’d read my full Are your savings safe? guide first….
Now onto a couple of stats.
Icesave is a member of the financial services compensation scheme (FSCS).
All money in UK savings accounts, cash ISAs and current accounts are protected up to the first £35,000 put in there, in the unlikely event it went bust. Icesave is no different in that respect.
Icesave has opted for the ‘passport exemption’.
However, Icesave is one of a few EEA (European Econmic Area) banks, which has the passport exemption (there’s a full list in the Safe Savings guide). This means that in the unlikely event it went bust, the first E20,000 needs to be reclaimed from the Icelandic compensation system not the UK system. The remainder of the £35,000 would still come from the UK scheme.
Add this exemption together with the fact the Icelandic financial system is exposed to the crunch and this has caused a small minority of people to wobble.
It’s interesting to note that this doesn’t seem to be happening, to the same extent with Kaupthing, the current highest interest savings account. While it too is a bank of Icelandic origin, when UK savers put their money in, they’re in fact doing it with its UK banking arm, which has the standard FSCS protection as it hasn’t chosen the exemption.
In the unlikely event of problems; how would the passport protection work?
This is something we’ve raised with Icesave; below is its response, which was backed up by a document from the Icelandic Financial Services Association; confirming the legal strength of the info.
“Icelandic banks pay into a fund which is set aside to be paid out for compensation should it be needed – the UK scheme doesn’t have this and could therefore technically take longer than the Icelandic scheme!” (Note from Martin: The UK scheme is set up to call money in if needed, rather than work on a pot of money system).
All talk of compensation schemes is purely hypothetical because they have never been used, but given the above, there is no reason to assume that the Icelandic scheme would be any more complicated or take longer.
In the extremely unlikely event that the Icelandic government wasn’t in a position to meet all claims, all the Nordic countries have an arrangement where they will step in and help any one of the participating countries that are in trouble so there is an additional layer of reassurance and cover.
If you could make it clear that Icesave customers are fully protected up to £35k the same as customers of any UK bank and that they will be paid as quickly I’d be very grateful!”
Of course this doesn’t offset the fact you’d be dealing with an overseas regulator, yet as this is an unlikely possibility, the above does put to rest many of the issues.
So what’s the problem?
So far I’ve deliberately focused on “how protected is it?” rather than “how likely is it to go bust?” And as far as I’m concerned that’s the more important question.
The reason behind this is simple. The credit crunch is a nightmare. Picking out “which bank is under threat” almost feels like a game of random chance. The job of looking at the indicators isn’t mine, that belongs to the City banking and bond strength analysts. Yet even then the crunch has shown, that system isn’t very accurate and hasn’t been predicting events.
Northern Rock was an issue of sentiment. When it got into problems, the cause was the fact that a huge amount of its cash came from the money markets, which were teetering. However, what killed it was the mass panic and withdrawal queues.
Giant US bank Bear Stearns was much more of a shock for many, and was highly rated as a profitable player not long before hand.
That means picking out if any other banks are vulnerable is a bit like drawing a lottery ticket. And it’s virtually impossible to pick out which banks have risks (my guess is even in the discussion linked from this blog you’ll see people arguing both sides). As that’s all about speculation, for me it is far more important to understand the available protection; which is fact.
On its own website Icesave has an article detailing its own financial strength indicators. This boast should of course be taken with as much a pinch of salt as anyone saying the system is struggling.
The Summary
Icesave has high interest rate accounts, and is a best buy in certain categories. That makes it an attractive account. The risk of it going bust, doesn’t seem to be very substantively more than any other top savings account bank and this is unlikely to happen (though nothing’s impossible).
Yet if you are looking to place more than £35,000 in it, so that your cash is not covered by the compensation scheme, the risk element with it (and any other bank) increase. You need to see how that fits in with your entire holding of savings (see are your savings safe? for strategies).
If, in the unlikely event Icesave were to collapse, it would probably be bureaucratically more difficult to get your money back than if a fully-UK bank went bust; but again not substantively so, and may actually be faster.
Therefore, where Icesave is a best buy, it remains a best buy. If I were to arbitrarily pick accounts not to include, then articles wouldn’t be accurate, where do you draw the line? This site is about listing highest interest rates to save people money… to get in the ‘picking the dodgy bank’ game - is an impossible task.
Of course, there are no guarantees, and it is a VERY tough call, but
this is my best estimate of the situation. Yet, my aim by writing this
breakdown of the facts is to help you make your own decision with full
information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icesave
Icesave
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Icesave is an online savings brand owned by Landsbanki (an international financial services provider whose headquarters are in Iceland).
Icesave offers savings accounts only to personal savers. It currently operates in two European countries - the UK (where it has operated since October 2006) and the Netherlands (where it has operated since May 2008). However, Landsbanki's 2007 annual report states there are intentions to roll the brand out to additional territories throughout 2008 and 2009.
In the UK, Icesave's strapline is "clear difference", and it currently offers three types of savings account: an easy-access savings account, a Cash ISA (Individual Savings Account), and a range of fixed-rate bonds.[1]
In the Netherlands, Icesave's strapline is "the transparent saving bank", and it currently offers just one type of savings account: an easy-access savings account.
On 7th October 2008 the Icesave UK website announced: "We are not currently processing any deposits or any withdrawal requests through our Icesave internet accounts. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our customers. We hope to provide you with more information shortly."[2] The FSA warned customers that they were anticipating the bank's insolvency and compensation claims might be neccessary.[3]
[edit] See also
[edit] References
- ^ "Savings Accounts". Icesave. Retrieved on 2008-03-30.
- ^ "icesave.co.uk Homepage". Icesave. Retrieved on 2008-08-07.
- ^ "Icesave savers warned on accounts". BBC News. Retrieved on 2008-08-07.
[edit] External links
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/printthread.html?t=831895&pp=40 - - Icesave: how safe are your savings? Facts and
myths (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=831895)
Icesave: how safe are your savings? Facts and myths
This
is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's “Icesave: how safe
are your savings? Facts and myths" blog. Please read the blog first, as
this discussion follows it.
Read Martin's Icesave: how safe are your savings? Facts and myths
Blog.
Click reply to discuss below.
|
I have savings with the two Banks mentioned, I have no
problems with there system
|
thanks martin
i have an account with icesave never had any probs but an informative reassurring article thanks |
I
have found Icesave quite a good account to use and they even gave me
£25 John Lewis voucher to introduce a friend. Also good for larger
amounts of money as other high street banks like HSBC aren't as good
for that.
|
Ive got saings with Kaupthing so very interested in this
article.
Its the first time I heard any write about speed of payments from the compensation scheme. I understand when BCCI went bust a decade a ago some savers had to wait five years for their money! Do we have any idea how long it would take to get paid out via the compensation scheme in its current form? Smala01 |
Iceland
I
have an ISA with them, but am worried. The Icelandic banking system is
in trouble. The charges that Icelandic banks are having to pay to
insure against default are increasing, and threats to destroy the
Icelanding banking system are common knowledge.
I was considering moving my other ISAs to my Icesave ISA at the start of the financial year, after they received interest. Now I am not so sure. Despite Martin's rosy claims of compensation, if the Nordic banking system does go down the pan it will be impossible to get the money for months - as they say, there is no pot. That would mean months without any interests. To give you some idea of the crisis in Iceland - where the banking system has been described as a massive hedge fund - interests rates were recently raised to 15% to try to prop up the currency, which has plummeted 30% against the Euro this year, and fell by 20% on March alone. The cost to Icelandic banks of CDSs (Credit Default Swaps, which are basically insurance against bad loans) is TEN TIMES the average cost to other European lenders. Towards the end of last week, CDS contracts for the main Icelandic bank - Kaupthing - cost 1.5 million in advance plus .5 million a year to insure just 10 million euros of debt for 5 years. On those prices, it seems that the market has decided that the debt won't be repayed. Iceland has a population of just 300,000 people, and it's banking system has recently grown through hedge-fund like speculation on the internation markets rather than a strong savings base (a la Northern Rock). A chain breaks at its weakest link, and in the internation banking syste, Iceland is looking very weak indeed. |
icelandic banks
Lets look at the bigger picture here.
Icelandic banks have been aggressively setting up saving accounts in this country. They pay top rate, well above the BOE base rate. Question is how do they "afford" to do this? Net they must be paying cash into these businesses to attract customers - it's simply a loss-leader strategy like a supermarket might employ. Egg was the first online bank to do this years ago and all us rate tart savers have been enjoying this competition for deposits for a few years now! Hoorah! Lets be clear- I think we can all agree it generally costs the banks offering these loss-leaders some hard cash to do so. These banks find the money to fund these expansion plans with some of their own capital AND by raising debt on the capital markets...just like a buy-to-let-landlord might get a loan in order to buy a property to start a rental business. Now as any would-be buy-to-let-ers know - it all depends on getting a good mortgage i.e. being lent ENOUGH money and at a LOW enough interest rate! |
So what's changed?
Well the capital markets have had a shock which means people are being much more cautious about how they lend money. These so-called tighter credit conditions are reflected in TWO ways - the amount people will lend and the price they will lend at i.e. the interest rate that they will lend at. Let's look back at Northern Rock. It's business model was to be v.aggressive in the mortgage market, it achieved this by borrowing an unusually high amount in the capital markets, rather than through taking deposits. This worked great as long as it could borrow easily at decent i.e. quite low interest rates, but when that rate went up suddenly it's business model was looking shaky. Yes it was probably shoved around a bit by some bullyboy speculators, yes it all became a vicious circle and yes then there was a run, BUT the inescapable fact is that at the end of the day their business model no longer worked in this new tighter credit world. (Look what the new bosses are doing to rectify this - slimming down mortgages, attracting deposits) |
Now
back to Iceland - the price at which Icelandic banks can borrow money
has been rising dramatically (try adding 5% a year to your borrowing
costs in the last month alone!)
Now to be fair to the banks they say they don't care as at least a couple of them say they have already borrowed enough money to fund themselves for over a year so (unlike NR) they are in no rush to come to market to borrow any more money. They also point out that they have quite a lot of deposits i.e. it's like they took out a nice handy fixed rate mortgage with a good LTV well BEFORE things hit the fan. (In fact of the three big banks you can rank the effect on them according to these two things). Bully boy speculators have been noticing (helping cause?) this and last week were starting to get very carried away selling the Icelandic currency. Why so? Here's the twist and the snag. We are talking about foreign banks from a small country listed on that foreign country's stock market. It's a bit tricky to (short)-sell shares in those banks so why not just sell the currency of that small country? You would be doing it anyway to sell the bank shares so it seems a reasonable proxy especially as the financial sector represents a large part of the economy. Plus most people agree it's over-valued anyway! The snag is that if you pummel a country's currency it wont be long before the central bank steps in and says "one for all and all for one". This is exactly what happened last week as the Icelandic Central Bank raised it's interest rates to 15%. This persuaded a lot of speculators to call off the hunt (for now?) and things have been calmer since then. An amusing side issue is that the three Icelandic banks apparently may have made some money too! As their expansion plans involve putting money from Iceland into the UK i.e. over time they need to sell ISK and GBP. They know their currency quite well, knew it was over-valued and so already had some hedging trades on that would benefit if the ISK fell in value (to protect their future investment plans), but a nice little earner in this currency wobble. |
BUT AND HERE'S THE RUB - the big question remains
unanswered,
will the banks be able to ride out this credit crunch i.e. will they not need any money for long enough for things to return to a place (i.e. lower borrowing costs) where their business model works again? |
Icesave
well,
not having much dosh, it took me long enough to decide to invest my
paltry minimum isa, having taken martins advice and the downfall over
here. so what do i do now, as the song says ' should i stay or should i
go'. grandma used to have her savings under the mattress, am wondering
if that's the best place with all this uncertainty!!
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Quote:
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I
withdrew my substantial deposits from Icesave (Iceland), FirstSave
(Nigeria) and ICICI (India), following an alarming TV report. At least
I tried to... Firstsave initially gave me back less money than I'd
actually deposited, and no interest. They said it was something to do
with it being a leap year! They did send a little more, two days later,
following my query, but I wasn't convinced by their explanation, nor
entirely sure that I did eventually get all my money back. Presumably
they don't have leap years in Nigeria.
|
can you speak read and write icelandic?
I CANT!!!!!! |
I've
got a question I've not seen an answer to anywhere. If the Icelandic
scheme ran out of money and could not pay the full amount, would the UK
scheme pick up the slack, and cover upto £35,000.
|
An Opinion
My late night opinion.
I'm not in agreement with Martin's comment about Northern Rock or Bear Sterns(BS). While Northern Rocks problems weren't about losses, the liquidity situation is that the Government is currently loaning 106BN to them to keep them funded and be able to run down their mortgage portfolio. If I remember correctly their total deposits were under 10BN... even if there was no 'run' on the bank they didn't have the cash to continue and certainly wouldn't now as the credit crunch is even worse. BS blew up a couple of hedge funds to start the credit crunch process off.. they chomped down as many mortgage backed securities as they could in the heydey and were leveraged up to the hilt.. my opinon as a man that previously built risk models for banking institutions both these companies believed that 'this time it (risk) is different' and were v. v. wrong... with BS see Ben Bernankes comment today. Icelands situtation is not good. I'm no expert, but they are (from the hedge funds and global economy) small enough to allow to fail... see the 80's for last set of bank failures and housing crisis' in the Scandies. Hedge funds are going to want to tear them apart for a quick buck. BUT.. the CDS rates are irrelevant; the banks are NOT buying their own CDS's so its not a cost to them... sorry Paulpaul1308 but the only relevance of CDS rates are that the world is worried that these banks are in trouble. I've pulled my parents money out of these banks. I don't want to be reactionary but its a scary world out there. The fact that these folks (sound like they) need the deposits to survive makes me not want to be the one holding the can when everyone else has played safe. Cash is king. S |
Quote:
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Quote:
It used to be the case that a very easy way to make lots of free money was to borrow stable yen - which was practically interest free - and buy krone, which paid top whack interest and was also stable. Now the falling krone doesn't make that attractive. |
I
found the article and discussion very interesting . At present I am
considering opening an Icesave ISA and transferring previous years
savings into it. Although its good to know our savings are protected up
to £35k, if the bank was to go under for some reason would I be able to
pay the compensation amount in to another ISA? I know its seems like a
minor point but after 5 years of tax free build up it would be good to
know.
|
Having
lost out at Equitable Life I have voted with both feet and closed my
Icesave account. I am not doing a transfer as it would take too long.
|
Martin says that Icesave is an EU bank, but Iceland isn't in
the EU. I'm confused.
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Quote:
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Having
just opened two iceland bank accts and now reading all of this, what
now, anyone know of a decent type bank/BS to put your savings for a
decent return and some peace of mind as well
PS I have just had experience of two prominent U/K twisters without naming em! |
Internet Access
I
have recently transferred my Nationwide mini cash isa to icesave simply
because of the attractive rate. However, I am finding continuing
problems in gaining 'online' access to my new account. Icesave have
're-set' my security details on 3 occasions up to now and immediately
following this I have been able to access my isa account for maybe 1 or
2 occasions and then after this I have been refused access. Icesave are
now resetting once again my details. They say that they are
experiencing trouble with my Internet Service Provider (talktalk).
However, my continuing problems along with all of the current
uncertainties are making me extremely uncomfortable and I am leaning
towards transferring back to Nationwide (smaller interest rate) simply
for more peace of ming.
|
In
response to Bobbyfleet,I too took out a mini cash ISA in February with
Icesave (2007/8 allowance) and was considering investing the increased
2008/9 allowance with them.I've naturally become concerned due to
adverse publicity.
I like most people want the best return possible but also a safe home for my money.I have just gone to the Icesave website and logged on without any problems and accessed my account....The money's still there !! there is also a quite comforting statement from Icesave about their current financial situation and the future.I am aware that Northern Rock were making similar claims,but ultimately it was us,the investors that sealed their fate by mass panic withdrawals.I personally left my money ride with NR and couldn't see the problem once the government intervened.NR is now a carbon copy of NS&I and as can be seen from my experience (another thread,here) they are not going to be competitive any more by choice. Back to Icesave,I am happy to stay with them at present on a low level investment.I find their internet account service very efficient,so far! |
I
have recently changed my current bank account from RBS to A&L &
filled in the relevant online form which then has to be posted to
icesave to change my nominated bank account.
(That is the only proceedure allowed it cannot be done simply online) That was back in February, I've emailed them with no reply & sent a second form. I've just recieved a letter from them advising me to delete my current nominated bank, before I can add the new one. Reluctant to do this as the nominated bank is the only withdrwal route it seems a ludicrous suggestion. I've emailed them to question their request & eplain my concerns (a week ago), I've had no reply. So, I have withdrawn my entire savings to my old current account which I am waiting to close (held up only by icesave) Now I'm looking for a new isa to transfer my isa savings too. I haven't been a customer with icesave very long, my main concern was not the safety but the very poor customer service and efficiency of the site itself, I would expect to be able to change my nominated bank easily online, but this is not the case. |
What a mess!!!
I
am pulling out of Icesave, and going to Northern Rock, yep thats right
Northern Rock!! as its backed by the Government its about the safest
around at the moment, also putting some in Bradford and Bingley (Up to
35000 in each) so thats it till the next scare, then sod it, its going
in the Post Office!!!:confused:
|
Lousy service
I
intended to open an account with Icesave but after my daughters
experience decided to go elsewhere. She opened her account and waited
and waited but received no information. She emailed customer services
six times all of which were ignored. Her 'secure' information was sent
to two alternative addresses. On discovering this she telephoned them
and was told that they had three different addresses for her and it was
her fault! The on call manager basically bullied her over the phone so
she closed the account and lost her interest for this month.
I have also tried emailing their customer service department and also have had no reply so I will not be opening an account with them either. If you are thinking of trying them out I suggest a simple email to their customer service department - see if they reply and then ask yourself whether you want to deal with such poor customer relations. |
-
just moved my isa to icesave: up to now no issues, they're quite
efficient, the procedure was fine and everything is set up ok (although
getting through by email or phone just before the end of the tax year
& when their package is so popular is obviously going to be a
challenge...esp if your isp is talktalk ;-)
- not surprised they're getting lots of flak: an Icelandic bank that competes head-on with the big boys of britain. i wouldn't worry for anything under £35k. they do speak excellent english in iceland i hear :-) |
early doors
i
have £12,500 in a 6 month bond and a £3000 ISA with Icesave. I have
only been with them 2 months so no major problems thus far. I had an
issue with the secuity question getting logged in but i rung the
customer services and was connected to an (friendly) operator fairly
quickly. She said the information would be emailed in 24hrs; i got it
in about 5 mins! Still unsure if i should use my new ISA allocation
here or choose somewere else?
|
I
made a simple email request of ICESAVE regarding new ISA limit. I now
get a return email quiting both Icesave and Bradford and Bingley. In
fact I get a further email address quoted at B&B. Is there any
connection???
|
Quote:
The Icelandic Finance Authorities are quite happy to communicate with you in English. In fact, you might find that their grasp of English grammar is better than yours ... (they know all about capitals, commas, and apostrophes). |
Quote:
|
Posted by drondo :
Quote:
Quote:
Actually Icesave isn't a bank at all. Its a trading name of the Icelandic bank Landsbanki hf. As fellas1990 says, Iceland is in the EEA. In addition to the 27 EU members, it includes Norway and Liechtenstein, as well as Iceland. |
I tried to open acct since 13th march they promised to send
user ID in post nothing ever received up to now
tried ringing customer service just music playing and apology message so I gave up in disgust. They are still advertising their Isa accts in today's paper WHY when they cannot cope quickly and efficiently with new applicants,, if this is the way they are running their Bank it might be an idea to go elsewhere. |
Icesave - almost problem free
I
transferred my ISA to Icesave in Feb this year, and the whole process
took less time than I expected and I had access to my account well
before the funds were transferred from lloyds. Never any hassle logging
in.
The only small issue I had was over the length of time it took for them to acknowledge my request to change the account from annual interest to monthly. It took over a month ... however, it was during their busiest period of the year. Curiously they have to pass the request to the "technical department" to complete ... isn't this what computers are for? You'd think this sort of change would be completed by a click of a mouse, and preferrably via the user interface on the website! Progress! :confused: PS oh, yes, I've paid this year's allowance in too. |
interest
a quick query:
I put my isa in as yearly interest. What is the benefit in changing to monthly? Im presuming to allow for drops in interest but does this mean that i only get the rate at end of year rather than ongoing interest based on current rate? |
ICESAVE vs ABBEY
I've just transferred out of Abbey to Ice.
Initially the transfer failed because Abbey did not complete the transfer form properly and Ice were duty bound to reject it. Getting information out of Abbey has been a nightmare. They keep you on hold, they put you through to overflow call centres who have no ability to answer your questions and have no authority. They don't call back when they say they will. Their service is basically diabolical and I am glad I've moved my money away from them. Ice, by start contrast, are EXCELLLENT. Really helpful, knowledgeable staff and an excellent system where they can call up on screen all the paperwork. They were able to prove to me that the Abbey call centre lied to me about the dates of their letters. Ice so far have provided a thoroughly efficient and reassuring service. I know that that is not really relevant to whether or not any particular bank is likley to go belly up, but what I am saying is if you are considering going to Ice I would recommend them from the small experience I have had so far. Also the online access is fine, I don't know what the other people above are talking about. Both myself and my wife can easily get into our accounts and they were both set up promptly. ABBEY = POOR ICE = THE WAY FORWARD! |
I
have opened an icesave account. To transfer the money by chaps, my bank
insisted that the receiving branch identify themselves. Reluctantly
they did as Barclays Icesave. So, have I got an Islandic
savings account or not?
|
| Optimist | 11-04-2008 2:45 PM |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by happy gardener (Post
10088817)
I
have opened an icesave account. To transfer the money by chaps, my bank
insisted that the receiving branch identify themselves. Reluctantly
they did as Barclays Icesave. So, have I got an Islandic
savings account or not?
|
| ukamericano | 13-04-2008 11:10 PM |
Have
been an Icesave Easy Access account holder for more than a year now -
with no problems - easy access indeed. Have not needed to contact
customer service. Also today sought to shift a few £££ over from one
acct to Icesave's new fixed-rate savings account at great rates (£1000
min dep). Awaiting approval.
Interest
I just have a question about getting out (just in case my
fear takes hold).
I have an ISA at Icesave with last years allowance in (plus interest). When I took it out I (probably naively) opted for interest paid annually; going for the seemingly higher rate. Was I wrong to think this? Exactly what is the difference and should I change to monthly interest? Also, what would happen to my interest if I were to transfer the ISA allowance to another bank? Would they give me interest owed up to the transfer? :confused: Lots of questions, I know but I am confused. Any advice would be appreciated! David. |
I
have savings bonded with Icesave and are 40k over the limit that is
safe, is there anyway I can insure that 40k if the bank goes bust?
|
Quote:
Hi you can insure - but why not just split your money as the insurance will be more than the 0.5% loss in interest by putting with another provider that is part of the compensation scheme in the UK |
interest
I
have an ISA at Icesave with last years allowance in (plus interest).
When I took it out I (probably naively) opted for interest paid
annually; going for the seemingly higher rate. Was I wrong to think
this? Exactly what is the difference and should I change to monthly
interest?
Hey i asked this question earlier in the topic. Anyone care to explain the difference / benefits to either? |
There is actually no difference in interest rates IF
you re-invest your monthly interest payment you receive each month into
the same account. Essentially by opting for yearly interest the bank
does it for you. So you are not losing or gaining whichever route you
chose.
|
Safe Bank
I
have been with Icesave for about a year with no problems. I have just
transfererred two other Isa's to them. I think they are as safe as any
other bank. A lot of the UK banks would like to see them go under but I
don't think that will happen. If I had any worries at all I would close
my account immediately. I work too hard for my money to chance any risk
of losing it.
'Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds?' Charles MacKay :eek: |
Quote:
|
Someone might want monthly interest if they were worried
that the compensation scheme won't cover
a) accrued interest above £35K or b) interest due but not paid into your account before the bank went bust It's not as if we have past examples to draw on so that we can say conclusively what will happen with the FSCS compensation scheme. |
Martin says
a) it's difficult to know which banks and building societies may get into difficulty. b) he's not going to make any predictions because it's not possible for the site and even the experts get it wrong c) he'll make sure that any MSE recommendations are properly backed by the various compensation schemes. Is he right that the best approach is to save your £35K in the top paying bank without trying to find one which is financially stronger than some? The Coventry Building Society, for instance, hasn't gone down the sub-prime lending route and has no exposure to dodgy US mortgage-backed investment vehices. |
ICESAVE
Exercise extreme caution if considering opening an account. Today I
have failed yet again to gain access (withdraw) some money from my
"EASY ACCESS" !! Account. They appear? to have lost the direct debit
mandate(specifying where money is transferred) despite me having a
written confirmation from them. Their telephone advisors don't seem to
be on the same hymn sheet as one confirmed an email copy of said letter
would result in problem being sorted, no action followed and further
'phone calls elicited response that email was not acceptable as details
were not on their system-despite their system sending them to me!! What
was worrying were the gaps in conversation(whilst supposedly searching
for details) and the increasing reluctance to discuss MY problem
(referring to someone in background who they resolutely refused to pass
me onto). I am now told that it could be two weeks before I can access
my money and I am afraid that they are so desperate to minimise
withdrawals that they will tell you anything. Perhaps I'm being
paranoid and imagining a conspiracy but I would wait a week or two
before considering their so called bank. I was also told there was no
one on site in a supervisory position and no one who could discuss
details further presumably the call centre is in a shed in someone’s
garden?
|
I'm sticking with Icesave
People
seem to be getting a little off-topic -- I thought the point was to
discuss whether it's safe to save with the bank rather than to discuss
their customer service. (For what it's worth, I've been with Icesave
for a little under a year now, and their service has been fine. I've
had to contact them a few times and they've sorted out the issues
quickly. The only problem I've had with their website is forgetting my
security details!)
Like Martin says, it seems hard to try to pick and choose which banks are going to go bust. For now, Icesave is offering the best rate, so I'm going to stick with them. Moreover, the fact that their financial compensation scheme appears to have a pot of money to back it (unlike many others) must be a good thing, right? For me, Icesave simply offers the best deal. |
Icesave bonds- can I close it?
Related
to this topic - I have a more than 35K in 6 month and 12 month bonds.
The rules are that no withdrawal/closure can be made until the time
period ends. I contacted Icesave who initially said no withdrawal means
exactly that. On further questionning I was told if there was a
specific and unavoidable need to have the money, example given was
buying a house, I could extract the money.
Does anyone know if there is a legal right to close an account please? It seems rather arbitary the way Icesave have explained it to me. TIA |
I
have an easy access account as well as fixed rate accounts with
Icesave..I am going to stick with them as their rates and customer
service is excellent. I too have read all the media cover about the
safety of the bank but after thinking long and hard I have decided to
stay with them - under £35000 of course (as with any other bank)!
|
I'd be grateful if someone could quickly clarify the
situation about the £35,000 that's safe if a bank goes bust.
I have £50,000 to put away, so I was thinking of topping up my IceSave ISA, then putting £35K in this other Icelandic high interest account and the remainder elsewhere. But if, in a year's time, the banks went bust, I presume I would only get back the £35,000 I initially put away, and would LOSE the interest earned on it (ie. about £2,500)? Is this the case? Could someone please clarify this? Would it therefore be better to put £25,000 or £30,000 in there instead, and put smaller amounts in other accounts? That way, the interest would be safe, too. Or am I just being a paranoid idiot?! Thanks.. |
It is £35K per person not per account?
|
Quote:
It is available quite cheaply as a Wordsworth reprint and I tend to buy several copies at a time. If anyone ever asks to borrow money from me or to invest in an opportunity, I merely say no but give them the book as a present. Believe me, this is the best money-saving tip that I know! bw terryw |
Been reading the article on Icesave with interest.
My wife wants to put her £3600 allowance into a cash ISA and as iIcesave is the "best buy" have been looking at that but wary as it's a non-UK bank. If I am reading correctly if she invests her £3600 allowance then she is as well covered as if she invested with a UK bank. The only potential problem is for savers with excess of £35K who do not have the same protection as with UK banks due to the Passport opt out. Could someone confirm that I am interpreting this correctly? Thanks |
So..where is a safe place (with good intrest) to invest in a
cash ISA?
|
Icesave - new rules?
Noticed this on the Icesave website today. Does this mean
they are now fully in the FSA scheme? I'm confused.
"Peace of mind with Icesave: Part of international banking group, Landsbanki Regulated by the FSA Subscribers to the UK Financial Services Compensation Scheme Subscribers to the Banking Code" from http://www.icesave.co.uk/easy-access-isa.html |
If
you have £35000 in Icesave and it goes bust, you will have to rely on
Icelandic government to pay you the first £16500 approx. Only the
balance over and above this is covered by the FSA scheme.
Anybody else notice that Iceland has 18 Billion krona balance of trade deficit for July 08? It's to be hoped this is a freak result. I still have money in Icesave bonds, though one matured last month and paid out without problems and I took that money out. All three major Icelandic banks reported good half year results in last few days. |
Quote:
|
Around 159 Iceland Krona to the quid - troosers and badger
would be over the moon if the UK trade deficit was that small...
[edit] just a couple of Krona (ISK) numbers to get things in perspective: The UK has been running a 600 billion to over a trillion per month trade deficit for a few years UK plc had to borrow 430 billion to fund the 10p tax fiasco |
This is new on the Icesave website:
" IMPORTANT INFORMATION Following the recent turmoil in the global financial markets, Icesave wants to reassure our savers about the financial strength of Landsbanki. Landsbanki has no significant exposure to Lehman Brothers and there will be no significant impact to profit. It also has no exposure to the US mortgage market and no loss is anticipated from lending to XL Leisure. Visit About Icesave to find out even more about our financial strength or Financial Protection for details of the compensation scheme protecting your deposits. " I don't know about you....but when I see companies saying how things will be OK....it's time to worry! |
Thanks Martin for
ISA guidance,
Today I have taken a decision on Martins's excellent providings to: Use the latest NatWest deal & transfer in two cash ISA's, thus merging two ISA accounts into one and ditching the uncertainty with the IceSave e-ISA. I can rest easy now, but only until this time next year when I will look to Martin for the next best transfer deal. The NatWest offer is only for 12 months so for only 12 months they will have my well earned dosh! :T |
I
decided to pull out all bar £50 from my Icesave account (£5565) today.
I've been saving for a new car for a while and I'll move it to an
institution that is fully FSA tied in (just opened an account with
Kaupthing). Be a better rate too slightly..........
|
Hi. I have opened an Icesave savings
account, but I am concerned when I read that 'Icesave
hasn't chosen to be completely protected under the UK's Financial
Services Compensation Scheme, and thus if, in the unlikely event that
it were to go bust, getting the money back could be more difficult? '.
I wrote to Icesave and this is the reply they sent me:
Icesave deposits are protected by the deposit guarantee scheme. The maximum compensation is limited to 100% of the first ??35,000 of each account holder???s total deposits held with Icesave (the same as every FSA regulated bank and building society in the UK). Any compensation would be payable within three months, in accordance with EU legislation.?????? Do you think I still need to be worried about my money with them? |
hi Dancing Cat
I
have some money in Icesave bonds. I think I will get it back when they
mature. Icelandic government has shown with its purchase of Glitnir
that it is willing to dig deep to keep Iceland's banks in business.
Consequence for Iceland if it did not do so would be catastrophic. If
you are really, really worried, put your money into National Savings. I
have put some of my money there.
|
No choice
I donot think any western european banks are going to be
allowed to go bust by the government.
The first country to do so is going to see all investors take their money out of their banks with castostrophic consequences. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7643572.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7643638.stm |
thanks for the article on ice save martin i see its about 6
months old has anything changed
|
With
today's change in the limit to £50k, are there any changes to the E20k
limit for Icesave? I still have my ISA with Icesave and it's getting
close to £35k...
|
Does anyone know why the Icesave website is down? Mass
transference of funds out perhaps??
|
Quote:
Do you know how many banks went bust in 1920's? 16,000. Care to think again? |
They
would appear to be changing their site, it is now known as webair and
is described as being 'the future home of Icesave'. I'm crossing
everything that all is well because I have a lot of my hard earned
savings with them.:eek:
|
Quote:
|
Just
spoken to an operator at their security centre, to reset my password,
and I asked her about the situation. She assured me that monies in
Icesave accounts came under the UK banking compensation scheme, and as
from Tuesday 07 Oct, that means up to £50,000 or £100,000 for joint
accounts.
This isn't quite what Martin is telling us, ie, the Passport scheme where outside banks can opt out of the UK scheme, and you have to chase the Icelandic Government for part of your savings. Can anyone please clarify the exact position of Icesave, with reference to the UK banking compensation scheme. Regards, Jocten |
They do operate the Passport scheme so you would have to go
through the Icelandic government for the first 20,887 euros.
Taken from their website today: I heard that the Financial Services Compensation Scheme limit is being increased to £50,000 – does this apply to Icesave? Yes – the new deposit protection limit will apply to deposits held with Icesave and comes into effect on Tuesday 7 October. This will mean that, with effect Tuesday 7 October, if we cannot pay any amount we owe you on your savings accounts, you will be able to claim compensation. The maximum compensation is limited to 100% of the first £50,000 of your total deposits held with us. The compensation itself is provided by two schemes (sometimes referred to as a passport scheme) – the end result being that the total amount protected is the same as if your savings were only protected by the UK Financial Services Compensation Scheme. The protection works as follows:
|
Thanks
for that info, I guess we are all feeling a bit jittery over our hard
earned savings at the moment, ( and who can blame us? ) but we have
seen what happens when we rush to take out our money (NR) Do we want to
cause more stampedes and the possible collapse of more banks?
Martin must have his work cut out for him at the moment - keeping us all informed of the best thing to do. I'm crossing everything and keeping my ear to the ground........ One thing all this uncertainty has taught me - spend a bit more! I've been a bit of a miser over the years, saving every penny I could, thinking money saved would afford me a more comfortable retirement :rolleyes: |
I'm
not sure if this has been answered elsewhere, but if the worst were to
happen, and you manage to lodge a compensation claim for a (i.e. £10k)
ISA successfully, do you receive all capital, plus interest up to that
day?
Also, what happens with regards to your ISA allowance? Would one be able to invest the money received from a compensation claim (all the £10k) into another ISA? Best Regards, FatalSaviour |
| mykw | 06-10-2008 7:52 AM |
I just opened an ISA with Icesave last week, although I've not yet
deposited any funds at all.
Due to all the uncertainties I'm relucant to do any deposit, so if I was to phone them and cancel my account would that mean I can not open another ISA with anyone else in this tax year?
I'm sure the answer lies somewhere else on this site, but grateful for a quick response from the much-more knowledgable on here.
Due to all the uncertainties I'm relucant to do any deposit, so if I was to phone them and cancel my account would that mean I can not open another ISA with anyone else in this tax year?
I'm sure the answer lies somewhere else on this site, but grateful for a quick response from the much-more knowledgable on here.
| Optimist | 06-10-2008 9:59 AM |
Well if this is true it would hopefully make Icesave a more secure
bank
Local media DV.is reported today that according to their sources Kaupthing bank would buy Landsbanki with the back-up of the Icelandic government. According to the same source the problems of Landsbanki have been growing since Glitnir bank was taken over by the Icelandic Government. There have been crisis meetings in closed offices around Reykjavik, the capital of Iceland, where this has been on the agenda.
There seam to be two main talks on how the banks in Iceland will be managed, the first is that Kaupthing is to buy Landsbanki and Glitnir will keep on being in ownership of the Icelandic government and the other is that the Icelandic government in coop with Landsbanki and Kaupthing will split up Glitnir’s assets and the two banks will take them over.
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...uy-landsbanki/
Local media DV.is reported today that according to their sources Kaupthing bank would buy Landsbanki with the back-up of the Icelandic government. According to the same source the problems of Landsbanki have been growing since Glitnir bank was taken over by the Icelandic Government. There have been crisis meetings in closed offices around Reykjavik, the capital of Iceland, where this has been on the agenda.
There seam to be two main talks on how the banks in Iceland will be managed, the first is that Kaupthing is to buy Landsbanki and Glitnir will keep on being in ownership of the Icelandic government and the other is that the Icelandic government in coop with Landsbanki and Kaupthing will split up Glitnir’s assets and the two banks will take them over.
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...uy-landsbanki/
Quote:
|
Quote:
Yes I too have been wondering this, also, if one had to fight for one's savings due to a bank going down, and it taking some time to recover the funds, how would that affect the interest? Have heard on the news, that Iceland have suspended all trading on the stock exchange. I'm trying to avoid a knee jerk reaction along with protecting my savings but very tempted to shift my savings from Icesave to a UK Company. |
If
the worst happened and Icesave/Landsbanki went bust PLUS the Icelanic
Compensation Scheme could not cope with the initial payment of 20887
Euros would the FSCS/FSA pay the full compensation of £35000 (£50000
from midnight)?
|
Quote:
|
i've
done the deed, closed the account 5 mins ago. dont wanna go thru the
hassle of getting my ca£h back if it goes belly up with Landsbanki, saw
the anouncement that the icelandic prime minister was gonna guarantee
all icelandic savings (does that include us Brits).... the banking laws
and regs are on shifting sands and changing by the day/hour.
I aint hanging around, for the ice to melt ;-) |
Channel 4 news?
Did
anybody see the Channel 4 news this evening? My understanding was that
deposits in Kaupthing were protected but that Icesave could not
necessarily guarantee savings of overseas investors. Am I right?? Been
searching to see if Martin could give us his thoughts on this situation
but can't find anything up to date.:huh:
|
|
If
Icesave had 100% FSA protection like Kaupthing I'd have no trouble
leaving my money there. I'm not closing my account but will move some
it elsewhere for a while. Maybe even into Kauthing once things settle a
bit. Hoping they do settle.....
|
Urgent update needed
I
can't believe that Martin hasn't updated his advice re Icesave. Any
saver needs to get his/her money out of this bank ASAP. The Passport
scheme puts this bank in a very differen position from kaupthing. If it
goes but, which seems quite possible, then you will be relying on the
Icelandic deposit protection scheme for the first £20k or so. Given
that Iceland hasa population the size of Croydon, a bank crisis may
lead to a national default. Iceland has announced that it will protect
all domestic depositors, but not those saving with overseas branches of
Icelandic banks. If this happens you wil be reliant on either the other
Nordic countries comming to Iceland's recue, or the UK Governmnet
stepping in to cober any amount the Icelaners default on. Gien the
political environmnet, by guess is that Brown would bale people out,
but it would be foolish to take the risk for the sake of a few basis
points of extra yield. Get out while you can.
|
I've
just emailed Martin team as I have £100k with Icesave fixed term
savings and can't get it out. I tookhis advice to put money into
Icesave. I'm not blaming him but I think it shabby that there is
nothing on the site to update and advise where posible. I am 60 and
I'll loose my life savings if the bank goes down. Its still not clear
how much is really protected by Iceland. Please would you let me know
if you hear anything? £uckless (just thought up the name two days ago -
I didn't think it would be an omen!)
|
I've just read the highly ambiguous Icelandic Guarantee
Statement at www.tryggingarsjodur.is Also the less
than clear statements made on its Website by the managing director
Simsey-Durrant http://www.icesave.co.uk/important-information.html
Given that the Icelandic Government are not going to 100% guarantee the savings of non-Icelandic depositors in its banks (it simply cannot afford to), and the fact that the whole country is teetering on bankruptcy I'm moving my ISA out to the UK (Nat-west) tomorrow! |
Quote:
1. Open account with Bank A. 2. Invest £500 in Bank A. 3. Open account with Bank B. You must then transfer your £500 from Bank A and close that ISA down before you can start to invest in Bank B. In the next tax year, you can leave Bank B with the £500 in it, and open a new ISA to invest your new £3600 annual ISA limit in. |
Channel 4 News Item on Icesave
Quote:
Paul |
Get Out - Now
Savers
in Icesave are in the most dangerous position of all UK savers right
now. By all reports Landsbanki Icesave's parent is a well run bank and
has avoided the obvious pitfalls of US mortgage exposure etc.
Unfortunately none of that matters because the interbank markets on
which many banks rely for liquidity are frozen solid. The bank may be
solvent ie it's assets are worth more than it's liabilities, but if it
can't get hold of cash when depoitors demand repayment it will still go
bust and at firesale prices, its assets re unliklley to cover
liabilities. Crucially, unlike UK, EU or US banks it cannot rely on a
powerful central bank to provide liquidity. Iceland has just over 300k
people - the size of Croydon. Total bank liabilities run at something
like USD300k per inhabitant. If the banks go down (maybe a 50%
probability before the end of the month, quite possibly in the next few
days), then the problem just gets shifted to the Icelandic State. The
currency has already dropped 50% this month and such news could well
lead it into freefall. Because it is part of the Passport situation,
the legal position is that depositors would need to look to Iceland for
the first c GBP16000 of any compensation, the next GBP 34,000 would
then be protected by the UK scheme. Let's assume that Iceland's 200,000
UK customers hold an average 10k in the bank that's GBP 2bn. Iceland's
total GDP is about GBP 8bn at purchasing power parity exchange rates,
but maybe as low as GDP 4bn if the currency collapses even further as
it surely would. In the context of the standard of living of Iceland's
population halving overnight, there is little chance that Iceland could
find 50% of its GDP just to compensate the UK savers of one of its
banks. If all this happens getting your first GBP16000 back is going to
depend on either the other Nordic countries helping out Iceland or the
UK Government picking up the tab. Legally speaking they would have no
obligation to do so. Given the political situation at the moment and
the noises the Government has made about protecting UK savers and the
complexity of understanding the Passport scheme, I'd say there would be
a 90% chance that Brown sill step in and save that first GBP16,000 and
maybe also any excess over GBP50,000, but GBP2bn is not a small amount
of cash, so you would be taking a gamble. Certainly if you have a
penalty free withdrawal option the only sensible advice would be to get
your money out as soon as you can.
I understand that Martin want's to act responsibly and not to promote panic, but this situation has moved on radically in the last day or so with even the Icelandic prime minister warning of potential national bankrupcy. This site has been at the forefront of highlighting Icesave's market leading rates and if MArtin fails to comment and the nightmare scenario I outline above plays out, his excellent reputation will be severely tarnished. Wade |
Just noticed this in their press releases:-
We are not currently processing any deposits or any withdrawal requests through our Icesave internet accounts. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our customers. We hope to provide you with more information shortly. |
That's
on their front page now. I'm wondering though, about the word 'through'
- whether that means business can't be done online but that transfer
requests via another bank might still be possible. In common with other
people here, I put all my savings with Icesave in response to Martin's
recommendation, and I'm now feeling decidedly jittery.
|
I
just cleared out my Icesave account in The Netherlands. The site seemed
to operate just fine as always. Of course Icesave has only been
operating here for 5 months, and they must owe a lot more money in the
UK..
|
REYKJAVIK,
Oct 7 (Reuters) - Iceland has dismissed the board of directors of
Landsbanki and has put the Icelandic bank in receivership, a minister
told state radio on Tuesday. Commerce and banking minister Bjorgvin
Sigurdsson said the move was made in cooperation with Landsbanki and
the bank would be open and run as normal while the changes were taking
place. Sigurdsson said Iceland’s Financial Supervisory Authority had
put its own people in place of the bank’s board. Late Monday, Iceland
adopted sweeping powers over its battered banks as its financial system
tottered and its currency plunged.
|
Has
anyone tried, successfully or not, to close an Icesave 6m or 12 month
Fixed Rate account. Their terms and conditions state that no
withdrawals are allowed until the end of the term but, in the current
climate, it would be useful to know if one could somehow close one of
these accounts even if all the interest were to be lost.
|
BBC LATEST: Iceland's market authority says it is
taking control of Icesave-owner Landsbanki. More soon.
I can't get into my account now, spoke to Icesave Cust Services. They explained that my action of closure last night, locked my account for deletion. The transaction to transfer still goes ahead...phew!! or maybe NOT!!!:confused: |
Just
phoned them, and they said they know about the message on the website
but they are waiting to hear any further information themselves.
They said they can't do any transactions over the phone either. :confused: |
I
too decided yesterday to close my accounts with Icesave, I have tried
to get into my account to check if the funds were transferred but
password locked so was relieved to read Parist say the same &
transfer may still be ok. Hope it lands in my bank account with no
probs.
|
Their telephone number is not working either, so I can't get
ahold of them.
|
I
managed to get into my accounts with Ice Save but can't withdraw, so
have taken print outs of my accounts with them. Hope this will be proof
enough to eventually get my money out.
|
Going Down.
Hindsight
is a wonderful thing. If like me you didn't move fast enough, then
sincerely, good luck folks, looks like we're going down.
PS How come this thread has 10 times more information on it than the icesave home page?? |
Quote:
Quote:
I guess it's a theoretical possibility that the Icelandic government couldn't meet all their obligations, but that combined with all the other Nordic countries as well would be extremely remote ... but still possible. Which would me more probable? The UK scheme not meeting its obligations or the entire Nordic countries not meeting their obligations? I don't know, but at least you've split the risk. Having said that, you can't put money in or take money out of icesave at present. That may change once the immediate panic is over since the parent bank's domestic operations are still functioning albeit now under state control. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7656387.stm |
moneyluvva,
just wandering if the transaction (which I did last night) and was
pending for today (Oct 7th) would still go through ?? Question is: at
what time did they suspend transactions? before the banking day started
today?
Is there such thing as a safe bank, are they all vulnerable? |
Icesave
I
rang the FSCS yesterday to ask the 'hypothetical' question of what the
situation was if the Icelandic govt defaulted on repaying the first
20odd thousand euros guarantee to be told - this is nothing to do with
us, you would have to take that up with them, we only step in above
that amount - very worrying!
|
Worried...
I've
got 6.5k in my Icesave ISA (again like others, I opened this earlier
this year after following the best buy recommendations!!! whoops). I
had no idea about this dodgy protection, I'm sure like others I just
read the FSA protected bit and thought nothing more of it!!
Looks like its going to be a game of wait and see .... I have followed other user advice and logged in to print a copy of my statement just so I know exactly what I have at risk!!! Come on Martin .... what's your say on all this...... |
Quote:
How did you manage to log in? I have just been on the Icesave site and there is no means of doing anything except contact them. I have sent what I think is probably a useless email asking for access to my account. :mad: Have just been back - with difficulty as the Webair site keeps coming up with no actual access to Icesave - and have done the same as northerns5 by copying the current details in my account, lets just hope we don't have a fight on our hands. Like others, I have a large chunk of my savings, including isa's with icesave and am feeling sick to my stomach at the moment :-( |
Icesave
My
argument with the FSCS would be they are now guaranteeing up to £50k -
if I've £50k in Icesave (not quite this much!) and Icelandic govt
repays £15k I reclaim £35K off FSCS - if Icelandic govt pays zilch then
I go back to the FSCS for my £50k. Not sure where I stand legally on
this but if there are any shenanigans by the Icelandivc govt and then
the FSCS i'm sure a series of class actions will ensue.
|
If
you've got a direct debit deposit into icesave pending - or one went
out very recently - try contacting your current account provider and
cancelling the direct debit arrangement, and if applicable try to
recall any recent DD under the Direct Debit indemnity agreement.
I had a £1000 DD which went through yesterday, and another (£2600) due to occur on Thursday, both of which I've been able to recall/cancel through my current account provider nationwide. I couldn't get onto icesave to cancel thursday's transaction, so went for the nationwide route. That just leaves the question of what happens to the ~£3k from my previous tax year that's sitting in the account, which I requested Natwest to transfer yesterday in branch (My deposits this week were to use this year's allowance to avoid problems with subscribing to two ISAs in a tax year, the £3k from last year was transferred from Barclays to icesave earlier this year). Hopefully by the time Natwest request the ISA transfer this mess would have been sorted out. |
Even
more concerning is that the whole country is in danger of going
bankrupt. 2 of the 3 major banks have now gone bust....how long is it
going to be before we get our money back...?
|
From the BBC
Customers of the Icesave internet bank have been warned they will probably have to claim compensation for money held in their savings accounts. The authorities in the UK are preparing for the bank's parent in Iceland, Landsbanki, to be declared insolvent. The Icelandic government took control of the county's second biggest bank this morning to stop it collapsing. Claims from Icesave's UK customers will be handled by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS). Under the depositor protection arrangements in Iceland and the UK, the Icelandic authorities will be liable for the first 20,887 euros (£16,300) of compensation. The UK's FCSC will pay out the rest of the claims, up to the newly introduced ceiling of £50,000 per person. A spokesman for the FSCS said however that UK customers of Icesave will not have to make two separate claims and that it would probably handle all UK claims on one form. "We are working with the Icelandic authorities to confirm the procedure," a spokesman said. "We are gearing up to be ready to do whatever we can in order to get compensation back to UK savers as quickly as possible." he added. Insolvent The Financial Services Authority (FSA) said it was expecting Icesave's parent bank to be declared insolvent soon, following its takeover by the Icelandic Financial Supervisory Authority (IFSA). Icesave says that it is not currently allowing customers to take money out of their accounts or to put in deposits. Landsbanki is the second Icelandic bank to be taken over to prevent a collapse of the country's banking system. In an announcement on state radio, the commerce and banking minister Bjorgvin Sigurdsson said the board of directors of Landsbanki had been dismissed and the bank put into receivership. He said the state takeover was made "in co-operation" with Landsbanki and the bank would stay open and operate as normal. Glitnir, the country's third-largest bank, was nationalised last week to stop it being driven into bankruptcy by the international financial crisis. |
|
Zimmy thanks for the link - I'm feeling slightly more
confident that we are not going to be left out to dry!
Martin - thanks for keeping the pressure up on all UK depositors behalf! |
Assuming
we have to go down the compensation route to get our ICESave deposits
back, what would happen to the tax status of ISA deposits? Would the
taxman allow us to transfer this compensation to a new ISA? or would we
lose the tax-free status on any subscriptions to date? I'm lucky in
that I've only got 1 previous year subscription with them, but for
other people there could be year's of subscriptions. :confused:
|
Apprently the Prime Minster of Iceland, Geir Haarde, late
last night addressed the nation and warned:
"In the perilous situation which exists now on the world's financial markets, providing the banks with a secure life line poses a great risk for the Icelandic nation," Haarde said in a televised address to the nation. "There is a very real danger, fellow citizens, that the Icelandic economy, in the worst case, could be sucked with the banks into the whirlpool and the result could be national bankruptcy." Really doesn't sound good :sad: I too was wondering what happens with regards to compensation and ISA tax status - can't seem to find anything about that as yet... |
| born2run | 07-10-2008 12:44 PM |
Obviously
the ISA deposit tax status situation is an issue (hopefully sorted out
via an admin process when FSCS finally sort out compensation payments)
but to be honest if the building's on fire I'd just be relieved to get
out in one piece!
| jamielovell | 07-10-2008 12:54 PM |
I'm
concerned too about the ISA tax status. As well as a £5000 fixed bond,
I have 3 years of ISA allowances (now worth around 10,000) in the
account (most of it my old student loan!). Had just opened a new fixed
bond last week, but fortunately phoned Lloyds and managed to cancel the
direct debit this morning, so will be just under the 16,000 Iceland
guarantee limit.
Latest
The
Icelandic gment has borrowed Euro 4 bn from the Russians. The PM said
they would have preferred to tap their "friends" but these traditional
friends were not interested so they had to find new friends. Basically
the loan will have big political strings. Presumeably support for
Russia's claims on the Arctic and a distancing from NATO. Whether E 4bn
is enough to keep the icelandic Gment solvent is not clear. At the
moment the first GBP16k of depositors funds is the responsibility of
the Icelandic Gment. Obviously the UK Gment and authorities are trying
to figure out wat to do next. I would say 95% chance they will end up
guaranteeing all the first GBP50,000 and a 80% chance they will stand
by the whole amount of people's exposure. We'll probably find iut for
sure in the next few hours.
|
Quote:
National Savings looking like the only safe place at the mo?????????? |
Lets hope we all get our money soon. The Icelandic
government must really be desperate to get into bed with the Russians.
I have been wondering about the ISA issue as well, but I have also been thinking that I have got to look for new accounts now. |
Bacs
I
transferred the bulk of my savings out of my account by BACS yesterday,
this is confirmed on my account balance and is flagged as "Processed".
I now wonder whether the transfer will the transfer go through? Or will I be left in the unfortunate situation of the money neither being in Icesave or my British bank, but in the system somewhere. :confused: Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of BACS could enlighten me, i.e. when is the money actuall released by Icesave? I was going to use the CHAPS option but decided not to. What mess! :mad: |
Question an answer on the times note
Q: I managed to withdraw my money from Icesave yesterday, but they say it takes four days to transfer. Will my money come through or will Icesave retain that cash because of today’s freeze on accounts? A: An Icesave spokeswoman said she did not know for certain, but as the transfer process takes several days and things came to a halt today, there is a sizeable chance that the money will be stuck in the system. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle4898782.ece |
Have
heard that Russia is willing to bail out Iceland, as no other Country
is willing to, I wonder what the future political repercussions will be?
|
I
hope this compensation thing doesn't take too long. Since I went back
to studying, I had all my savings in Icesave with an automatic transfer
every month to pay for rent, food, etc. Now I have a £75 overdrawn bank
account, no icesave money coming in, and rent, council tax and utility
bills of £420/month to pay. This sucks.
|
Quote:
My commiserations Chris - your post shows there's more to this than worrying whether or not we are going to lose our savings :eek: or have a ding dong of a battle to get them back. I use the interest on my savings to buy those 'little extras' lol I desperately need a new fridge as my current one has come to the end of it's life and was just about to order one, I'm also in the process of having work done on the house and was wondering where the workmen were :rolleyes: But now I am in limbo and won't be proceeding until I know my savings are safe. It's a terrible knock-on effect in many different ways, but some are feeling the results NOW :-( |
I
have taken £2k out on Monday (eta Thursday) and the rest out (5.5k) by
CHAPS last night (eta today). Although the items are logged as
processed and the account at zero balance, nothing has arrived in the
recipient bank account. I'll let you know at CoP today if the CHAPS
payment has worked. If not, I guess none of the processed items are
coming through.
|
Icesave
I
too withdrew my ISA's yesterday via BACS to dump into a more secure
current account. I requested that the account to be closed after
processing.
I am since unable to log into the website I am not sure if this a problem for everyone or means that my account is closed and my money is on its way or in some virtual dark world. Can anyone log in to even look at their accounts? Thanks |
I can log in to see my zero balance and 'processed' items.
|
leapfrogx, I can log in and view my balances etc, but of
course unable to carry out any transactions.
|
The FSA are saying we should expect a further announcement
from icesave soon:
http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk...m/icesave.html |
From http://www.fscs.org.uk/consumer/
FSCS gears up to assist Icesave's UK branch customers In the light of the current uncertainties, the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) is today gearing up in case it needs to assist approximately 300,000 savers at Icesave. Icesave is the UK branch of Landsbanki Islands hf (trading here under the registered name Icesave). It is an EEA bank that is authorised by the Fj!rm!laeftirlitið (FME), the financial services regulator in Iceland. The Financial Services Authority in the UK has reported that Icesave is now expected to go into insolvency proceedings in Iceland and this would trigger an FSCS default. Eligible savers with Icesave are protected by the Icelandic Depositors' and Investors' Guarantee Fund (IDIGF), up to a limit of the first 20,887 of their deposits. As an Icelandic bank Icesave is not automatically a member of the FSCS, but it opted to become a 'top-up' member. This means that eligible retail savers with Icesave's UK branch whose savings exceed the Icelandic limit would benefit from top-up compensation from the FSCS covering the amount over the Icelandic limit up to the new FSCS compensation limit for deposits of £50,000. If the default is triggered as expected, FSCS will contact all UK savers directly with details of how to apply for compensation. Further announcements will follow and we will keep this page updated. Please watch our website for more information. |
Compensation: 2 tier system
Quote:
Note: it is also important to remember that IceSave will be a priority for Iceland as it will need to prove that it can hold a stable banking system. Also, the agreement of other neighbouring countries will mean that there is a possible top-up available from them. No nation wishes to see its financial institution in difficulty and so this is a testing time for every individual in this situation of uncertainty and also for the Government of Iceland. What once was seen as the 1st run on a bank for over a century is now seen as one of the safest banks to keep money in. Iceland may follow suite as it has already nationalised the bank behind IceSave. |
interest on these accounts
Hi does anyone know if the interest accrued is covered.
I am have a one year fixed rate savings account started April 2008. So obviously I was due to get interest payment in April 2009. So I have had money with them 6 months ish, I assume I will have to risk keeping it in there until April 2009 to get the interest, or just get it out under whatever scheme asap and just accept i lose the interest? I mean the point of having for us such accounts is to save and get decent interest returns, I appreciate these are extraordinary times but it still a pain... or will the scheme consider this as part of the cover...? |
Hi
cs15 - it is my understanding that accrued interest can be included in
any claim up to the compensation limit i.e. £50k. I guess we will get
more information with the forms from the fscs but would expect to send
them info like a/c name, when opened, opening balance, interest added
to date, and presumably your own calcualtion of interest owing. That is
certainly what I'll be giving them anyway.
Incidentally, don't know how this will work in practice but I've also read that where you're on a fixed term bond the compensation due will not be paid before the date it was originally due - the article also said that the return would include the original amount of interest agreed - again only constrained by the overal compensation limit of £50k. |
Loss of Interest
I
have £50.000 in a Fixed Rate bond with one month to run. It sounds as
if I will loose all the interest £3.500 before Tax.Seems like we cannot
win .
|
Sorry to say Shoebridge but I think you're right.
The main silver lining for you is if Icesave had gone into liquidation yesterday i.e. before FSCS had raised comp level, you would have lost another £15k as well! |
interest
they should honour it, theyve had our money, so they should
pay the interest....
|
Interest
born2run
You are so right, I AM thankfull for that, it could have been much worse. |
good
to be positive, but you have invested and done nothing wrong so you
should get the 3.5k too surely, what is the point of banks otherwise?
(apart from physical safeguarding of cash we might as well use
suitcases under the bed again)
|
"Processed" transfers.
What
happens to those of us with "processed" transfers which now look as if
they will not be actioned, even though our accounts reflect that they
have? Will these be eventually actioned (doubtful), or will the money
be reinstated to the account?
I should imagine that they will take far longer to sort out seeing that the money is in the system somewhere and not recorded as being in the account. Also, what happens to all the lost interest while this money sits in "no man's land"? |
Just been checking out the latest news re Landsbanki.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7656387.stm Regards, Jocten. |
ISA allowance
:eek:
I am very worried about this situation as I have £6000 in a bog
standard ISA that I was keeping there until June next year to pay for
our wedding. I have been on the phone to my current account bank and
the FSA and nobody can tell me how my ISA allowance will be affected by
all this.
I have only paid in £900 this financial year and want to know it the remaining £2,700 will be available with another financial institution? Also, if they go down the liquidation route as far as I understand I cannot transfer my money to another ISA so will have to put £2,700 in this year and the remaining £3,300 after 1st April 2009. Can someone more knowledgable on this matter shed some light for me? Seems unfair that we will be penalised for the bank going down and not only potentially losing interest, but remaining ISA allowance. Many thanks. |
Quote:
I processed a withdrawal transaction last night and called ICESAVE today to ask whether this would still be going through. The gent I spoke to informed me that ALL WITHDRAWAL TRANSACTION REQUESTS WHETHER MADE ONLINE OR BY PHONE HAVE NOT BEEN PROCESSED SINCE (and including) FRIDAY 3rd OCTOBER!!!!!! Staff at the ICESAVE call-centre had only just been informed of this fact-and seemed shocked as the computer showed them as being processed and call-centre staff believed transactions were being carried out over the weekend when taking calls from customers! I will never believe any SHI*E posted by ICESAVE on their Website again. Our money is frozen and who knows who long it will take to get any back.:mad: |
Quote:
|
Quote:
As for the ISA specific questions it will ultimately be the FSA who will provide the answers. The fact that they are unable to do so at the moment emphasises that we are in unchartered waters - there has never been this type of situation before. Because of this the 'normal' rules don't apply and I would expect them to say (though I can't guarantee it) that prior years ISA balances and unused current year allowances will be allowed to be transferred into another bank (maybe the Northern Rock since they/we own it!!) |
Maybe
you should be worrying about the compensation scheme paying up before
your wedding and not being to upset about the lost tax free element of
your ISA.
If Iceland can't pay then the UK will pay upto £34,000 which is £50,000 less the £16,000 guaranteed (supposed) Iclandic compensation. |
wanghx
Oct 7, 2008, 3:16:03 PM10/7/08
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CNN 报道，冰岛总理说，国家可能破产。
冰岛经济稳定计划可能夭折
http://www.sina.com.cn 2008年10月07日 22:58 新浪财经
【MarketWatch伦敦10月7日讯】北京时间周二晚消息，冰岛稳定金融市场的计划似乎遭遇了困境。不久前，冰岛央行宣布从俄罗斯获得40亿欧元贷款，但旋即又改口称自己与俄罗斯的谈判还刚刚开始。
冰岛央行其网站上发表的一则声明中提到了这笔贷款。这则声明宣称，俄罗斯总理普京已经批准了向冰岛提供贷款援助的决定。
但几个小时后，有报导称俄罗斯财政部发言人否认了对冰岛贷款已经获批的消息。冰岛央行行长大卫-奥德松(David
Oddsson)也承认冰岛夸大了对这笔贷款的宣传，冰岛和俄罗斯的谈判仍在进行中。
受信贷危机的影响，冰岛克朗遭遇沉重压力。过去一年中，克朗兑欧元汇率大跌80%。
为了稳定冰岛经济，冰岛央行决定将汇率固定在一欧元兑换131克朗，但分析师立即对这一决定表示了怀疑。
"鉴于冰岛外汇储备不足30亿美元，冰岛央行的决定不足为听，我们认为维持不了多长时间，"德意志银行分析师指出，"要使这一外汇决定成立，冰岛政府必须推出可靠的经济稳定计划，但到目前为止，我们没有听到有关这一计划的任何消息。"
在周二早间，冰岛宣布控制了其第二大银行Landsbanki。而就在几天前，冰岛政府收购了另一家银行Glitnir的多数资产。
标准普尔公司将冰岛外汇主权信用评级由A-/A-2调降至BBB/A-3，同时还将其本地货币主权信用评级由A+/A-1调降至BBB+/A-2。
新浪声明：本版文章内容纯属作者个人观点，仅供投资者参考，并不构成投资建议。投资者据此操作，风险自担。
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俄罗斯财政部长Kudrin证实冰岛向其发出贷款请求
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Kudrin对记者表示，俄罗斯对上述请求的第一反应是积极的。 本文由 ...
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目前，冰岛政府正在寻求各 ...
wanghx
Jan 19, 2009, 7:18:33 PM1/19/09
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因为 icesave 破产，从荷兰国家银行 DNB
获得的存款保险支付已经到帐了。下面就是荷兰政府去和冰岛政府折腾了。唉，经济危机。亏好荷兰还是个民主政府，财政部长一开始拒绝承担责任，说储户应该为自己的行为负责，被左派议员一阵攻击，于是财政部长又转而答应荷兰国家银行先垫付本来应该冰岛政府担保的2万欧一下的存款，然后由荷兰政府和冰岛政府去纠缠。:)
获得的存款保险支付已经到帐了。下面就是荷兰政府去和冰岛政府折腾了。唉，经济危机。亏好荷兰还是个民主政府，财政部长一开始拒绝承担责任，说储户应该为自己的行为负责，被左派议员一阵攻击，于是财政部长又转而答应荷兰国家银行先垫付本来应该冰岛政府担保的2万欧一下的存款，然后由荷兰政府和冰岛政府去纠缠。:)
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