The Weekly Breakdown - Vol. 2, #8
Aaron M. Renn
Chronicling life riding the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA)
Visit The Weekly Breakdown on the web at
http://www.urbanophile.com/breakdown/
In the Media
------------
State Rep. Sonia Silva introduced legislation this week that would give
an extra $5 million to the CTA to address security problems. This bill
was filed after yet another possible incident of violence on the CTA,
the stabbing of a 17 year old woman near the UIC Medical Center. (It
should be noted that many of the woman's statements were proved false,
and the incident is still under investigation). [ Source: Chicago
Tribune 10 March 2000 ]
The CTA workers unions this week called on the CTA to re-establish its
own police department, claiming the CPD transit detail is not up to
the task. The CPD spends $16-20 million annual on the transit squad,
but those officers can be diverted to other assignments on demand.
[ Source: Chicago Tribune 9 March 2000 ]
The CTA unveiled a plan this week targeted at homeless people who use
CTA stations and trains as a sort of rolling home. The plan is to
have workers that will ride trains, seeking out the homeless and
referring them to agencies where they can receive food, shelter,
counselings, and medical treatment. The Salvation Army is also
volunteering to staff the Howard St. station to provide assistance
to the homeless. Also, there will be uniformed police at Howard
St. that will prevent homeless people from transferring immediately
from a northbound to a southbound train without paying again [ is
this legal? - AMR ]. [ Source: Chicago Sun-Times 6 March 2000 ]
Finally, an item that will please all railfans. The CTA is bringing
back old style pinstripe uniforms for its L motormen. The throwback
uniform style will be optional, but the CTA will allow and encourage
its operators to use their uniform allowance on the outfits.
[ Source: Chicago Sun-Times 8 March 2000 ] [ Are these really the
uniforms the CTA and predecesser companies used to have, or it just
faux history like the State St. subway entrances? ]
Commentary
----------
Mike Pietrusinski writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
When I lived in South Shore in the early sixties, I used the IC to/from
the Loop. I was only late to work a couple of times -- due to severe
blizzard and freezing temperatures delaying trains. AND in those days
there were actually 'Specials' to South Shore making very few stops south
of 12th St. Recently Metra Electric schedules show NO South Chicago
branch Spcls, and the net time from Bryn Mawr (Jeffrey & 71st) to
Randolph is longer than thirty years ago.
Let me comment here as this my territory...
Since working downtown, I take the Metra Electric and by and large I
prefer to take it over the CTA home. This last week I decided to take a
#14 to 67th and Jeffrey and transfer over to a #27 (South Dereing). Well,
even after taking the two buses it took me just as long to get home than
it would have if I would have taken the 4:45pm South Chicago train...and I
boarded the bus at Madison and Clinton.
The combination of the train/CTA takes me about an hour to get home from
downtown. WHen I took the buses it took me an hour and a half.....I'd
prefer to spend the extra money on the train cuz I know I'll get
there...
I too would love to see Express trains from Downtown in the afternoon like
they do on other Electric Routes. I think this is not goin to happen
though b/c the South Chicago line is one of the only lines that makes
stops in Hyde Park (55/56/57 and 51/53rd streets). The only thing close
to an Express is the 5PM South CHicago train which goes from 12th Street
to 53rd with no stops. However, if the ridership keeps increasing this
might be a possibility.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
And a couple notes from Jon Konrath, a friend of mine in New York:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
unrelated story - there is an amateur magician that gets on the A
train express during its biggest stretch from 59th to 125th and does
an entire first-rate show. he goes up to people doing "take a card"
tricks, he has a little stand that he straps to a pole to hold all of
his stuff, and he even makes a bird appear during his magic act. it
was so incredible, i gave the guy a five when he passed the hat.
trains have been bad here lately, weather and Giuliani. The N line,
which goes to my new place, has been closed all weekend for the last 8
weekends for some mysterious service work. But I found a kick-ass
queens to harlem bus that makes the trip pretty fast. and nobody's
thrown up on me lately ... Did I mention the number of times in the last
few months that someone has thrown up in my car on the subway? I wish I
could go back to gridlock and $200 a month insurance premiums.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
About the Weekly Breakdown
--------------------------
The Weekly Breakdown is a small Internet journal devoted to the trials
and tribulations of being a regular rider of the Chicago Transit
Authority. I would be happy to hear about and include your experiences.
Just send mail to brea...@urbanophile.com. The views expressed by
contributors are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the opinions of the publisher.
To subscribe to the email edition, please send a message to
breakdow...@urbanophile.com with your request. Ditto for unsubscribes.
--
Aaron M. Renn (ar...@urbanophile.com) http://www.urbanophile.com/arenn/
Mark Anderson
> The CTA workers unions this week called on the CTA to re-establish its
> own police department, claiming the CPD transit detail is not up to
> the task. The CPD spends $16-20 million annual on the transit squad,
> but those officers can be diverted to other assignments on demand.
> [ Source: Chicago Tribune 9 March 2000 ]
What I found scary is that they want this police department armed. It's
bad enough we have armed inexperienced Chicago Police officers who misuse
their firearms, imagine what will happen when the CTA unleashes a bunch
of ill-trained armed rent-a-cops. Ironically these CTA union people are
the type who think that just because someone wears a uniform and badge
they are mentally capable upstairs to handle a firearm. These are the
same people who scoff at the thought of private citizens carrying a
firearm legally. I would feel much safer if we allowed private citizens
(properly licensed and trained in the continuum of force and the proper
use of firearms) to conceal carry. If I see an army of armed CTA goons
I'm not going to feel too safe. I didn't feel safe around their dogs and
arming these people will only open up the CTA to huge lawsuits should the
testosterone of these rent-a-cops get the better of them and they start
maiming and killing people. If they won't let private citizens arm
themselves on the CTA then limit the guns to trained officers of the
Chicago Police department.
Karl Denninger
>> own police department, claiming the CPD transit detail is not up to
>> the task. The CPD spends $16-20 million annual on the transit squad,
>> but those officers can be diverted to other assignments on demand.
>> [ Source: Chicago Tribune 9 March 2000 ]
>
>bad enough we have armed inexperienced Chicago Police officers who misuse
>their firearms, imagine what will happen when the CTA unleashes a bunch
>of ill-trained armed rent-a-cops. Ironically these CTA union people are
>the type who think that just because someone wears a uniform and badge
>they are mentally capable upstairs to handle a firearm. These are the
>same people who scoff at the thought of private citizens carrying a
>firearm legally. I would feel much safer if we allowed private citizens
>(properly licensed and trained in the continuum of force and the proper
>use of firearms) to conceal carry. If I see an army of armed CTA goons
>I'm not going to feel too safe. I didn't feel safe around their dogs and
>arming these people will only open up the CTA to huge lawsuits should the
>testosterone of these rent-a-cops get the better of them and they start
>maiming and killing people. If they won't let private citizens arm
>themselves on the CTA then limit the guns to trained officers of the
>Chicago Police department.
Yeah, like the "trained" officer who slaughtered that fine motorist on
the Dan Ryan (an unarmed motorist at that) a few months ago? She was
armed with.... a CELL PHONE!
Or the New York cops who slaughtered the guy on the steps of his own
apartment building - he was armed with.... a WALLET! (Never mind that of
the bullets fired by those cops at a range of 20 yards or less fewer than
half hit their target and HE WAS STANDING STILL! This is ACCEPTABLE
marksmanship for TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS?!)
Excuse me?
I'd rather have armed citizens, thank you very much. Among other things
I'll bet their marksmanship is better.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Web: http://childrens-justice.org
Isn't it time we started putting KIDS first? See the above URL for
a plan to do exactly that!
Justa Lurker
Renn) wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:
| The CTA unveiled a plan this week targeted at homeless people who use
| CTA stations and trains as a sort of rolling home. The plan is to
| have workers that will ride trains, seeking out the homeless and
| referring them to agencies where they can receive food, shelter,
| counselings, and medical treatment. The Salvation Army is also
| volunteering to staff the Howard St. station to provide assistance
| to the homeless. Also, there will be uniformed police at Howard
| St. that will prevent homeless people from transferring immediately
| from a northbound to a southbound train without paying again [ is
| this legal? - AMR ]. [ Source: Chicago Sun-Times 6 March 2000 ]
First thought would be that they better prevent EVERYONE from
transferring from Northbound to Southbound, just to be 'fair'.
Illinois CLU would probably jump if they allowed some to transfer and
made others wait.
I don't have the CTA rules in front of me, but isn't the ticket
intended for transit from one point to another, with no returns?
Many systems around the world boot people for overriding and riding
back. Why not CTA?
JL
Justa Lurker
<alb...@hotpop.comNOSPAM> wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:
| In article <38cc257d....@news.bnin.net>, Justa Lurker
| </dev/null@.com> wrote:
| > I don't have the CTA rules in front of me, but isn't the ticket
| > intended for transit from one point to another, with no returns?
| > Many systems around the world boot people for overriding and riding
| > back. Why not CTA?
|
| wherever you want in the rail system, for as long as you want, until
| you exit a station's "paid" area by going through a turnstile.
Practically but not legally.
| However, I don't know what a passenger is *legally* entitled to in that
| regard. The CTA has had regulations in the past that prohibited
| reverse riding, but they applied much more to transferring between bus
| routes than to rail riding, and anyway I don't think that any of those
| regulations is in force right now. In other words, it is now perfectly
| legitimate to get on a bus, pay the fare and get a transfer, and then
| to use that transfer for the return trip on the same bus route. (The
| fare boxes are no longer programmed to reject the transfer in that
| situation.) Of course, what makes the rail lines different is that at
| many places in the system it's possible to change trains without going
| through a turnstile or having your transfer card electronically
| punched.
Transfers are generaly limited by time as well. You must use them
quickly or they are worthless. The allday/allnight riders are on the
system violate the number of hours that a ticket plus two transfers
would allow.
| Which leads to a further reason why the "homeless-hassling piggie" plan
| is so amazingly fucking stupid: If you're riding north on the Red Line
| and you want to turn around and go back, and if you know there's a
| piggie waiting to hassle you at Howard, then you simply get off the
| train at Morse instead, or at Loyola, and hop on the next southbound
| train that stops there. No big deal. Are the CTA people really stupid
| enough not to realize this? Or are they planning to post a piggie on
| every platform to stop people from doing this?
I'd guess that they are betting on them falling asleep. Wake them up
at Howard. Throw them off the system, if they missed their stop make
them pay their way back. If they are serious about stopping the
"problem" then random checks at other stations would be called for.
JL
Tushar Samant
>... In other words, it is now perfectly legitimate to get on a bus,
>pay the fare and get a transfer, and then to use that transfer for
>the return trip on the same bus route. (The fare boxes are no longer
>programmed to reject the transfer in that situation.)
However, at least a few months ago there was a bug in the system.
It happened like this: I get on the bus, bus comes to a dead halt
in two minutes, shows no sign of moving despite efforts by driver,
I get off and walk over to the train station, train turnstile
charges me full fare! Adam, any way to find out what the system
is?
I don't know what it thought--maybe that I couldn't possibly get
to a transfer point that quick? Is there some huge organized scam
which gets two thirds of its participants a ride for the price of
a transfer, or nothing?
I can see it...you get on the bus...see your brother give the secret
sign...exchange card for "Guerrilla Dollar" through the window...
brother takes ride for 30 cents...you make secret sign on the way
home...exchange Guerrilla dollar for warm card...or add a Guerrilla
quarter for "hot" card...double-glazed, free ride...or just go to
the clearing-house...you know the one which says "Gyros"...or the
one behind the sign which says "TURN for TAXIS"...
Aaron M. Renn
>I'd guess that they are betting on them falling asleep. Wake them up
>at Howard. Throw them off the system, if they missed their stop make
>them pay their way back. If they are serious about stopping the
>"problem" then random checks at other stations would be called for.
That's typically the case; lots of people sleep on the trains and
just blissfuly circle around the turnback track without ever knowing
what happened. (If the train is actually going out of service, somebody
comes and kicks everybody off).
That's just what we need on Howard St.: a bunch of homeless people
kicked out into the neighborhood because they don't have money for
a return fare. Not!
Aaron M. Renn
>However, at least a few months ago there was a bug in the system.
>It happened like this: I get on the bus, bus comes to a dead halt
>in two minutes, shows no sign of moving despite efforts by driver,
>I get off and walk over to the train station, train turnstile
>charges me full fare! Adam, any way to find out what the system
>is?
If you reuse the transit card with a certain period of time, it
charges full fare. This keeps people from simply pasing the card
back to the next person in line who could ride for 30 cents. I thought
it was only for boardings at the same station though. When the
same card is used twice or more at the same stations, this creates
linked trips, so that when you got to transfer (say, with your kids),
you can dip the same card multiple times and pay only the transfer
fee each time.
>I don't know what it thought--maybe that I couldn't possibly get
>to a transfer point that quick? Is there some huge organized scam
>which gets two thirds of its participants a ride for the price of
>a transfer, or nothing?
>
>I can see it...you get on the bus...see your brother give the secret
>sign...exchange card for "Guerrilla Dollar" through the window...
>brother takes ride for 30 cents...you make secret sign on the way
>home...exchange Guerrilla dollar for warm card...or add a Guerrilla
>quarter for "hot" card...double-glazed, free ride...or just go to
>the clearing-house...you know the one which says "Gyros"...or the
>one behind the sign which says "TURN for TAXIS"...
I don't know if they ever figured this out, but in San Francisco
paper transfers were free as you exited the bus. People would sell
them on every street corner.
Tushar Samant
>If you reuse the transit card with a certain period of time, it
>charges full fare. This keeps people from simply pasing the card
>back to the next person in line who could ride for 30 cents. I
>thought it was only for boardings at the same station though.
Right, and a clump of fareboxes having "local memory" is perfectly
all right. But this is not what happened. Wonder if it is just too
complex to implement...
Tushar Samant
>In article <8ahfq7$2pul$1...@news.enteract.com>, Tushar Samant
><Tb...@pimpdaddy.com> wrote:
>
>> Right, and a clump of fareboxes having "local memory" is perfectly
>> all right. But this is not what happened. Wonder if it is just too
>> complex to implement...
>
>just time-stamps your card (on the stripe) with the date and time of
>the most recent full-fare use.
Yes, but conceptually it's not hard to implement it--id each station
and call all buses one "station". That makes let's say 150 ids in
all, fits in one byte. Include station id with the time stamp. Now
this breaks precisely in one case--when a bus breaks down, you get
down and instantly catch another bus. What are the chances?
Of course, considering the chances, I think "conceptually" it's
even easier to just let your card cool off... But what's the time
window?
Ron T.
heard someone yell "late night", I thought it was someone selling drugs. I
later found out that they were selling transfers that were good until
Midnight the same day.
Do they still use paper transfers?
BTW... Orange County, California recently stopped selling transfers, and now
only sell day passes for not much more than the cost of two rides. It looks
like they made a good decision with this one, and I hope that more transit
agencies catch on.
Aaron M. Renn <ar...@urbanophile.com> wrote in message
news:slrn8coed4...@shell-3.enteract.com...
> On 13 Mar 2000 00:34:54 GMT, Tushar Samant <Tb...@pimpdaddy.com> wrote:
> >However, at least a few months ago there was a bug in the system.
> >It happened like this: I get on the bus, bus comes to a dead halt
> >in two minutes, shows no sign of moving despite efforts by driver,
> >I get off and walk over to the train station, train turnstile
> >charges me full fare! Adam, any way to find out what the system
> >is?
>
> If you reuse the transit card with a certain period of time, it
> charges full fare. This keeps people from simply pasing the card
> back to the next person in line who could ride for 30 cents. I thought
> it was only for boardings at the same station though. When the
> same card is used twice or more at the same stations, this creates
> linked trips, so that when you got to transfer (say, with your kids),
> you can dip the same card multiple times and pay only the transfer
> fee each time.
>
> >I don't know what it thought--maybe that I couldn't possibly get
> >to a transfer point that quick? Is there some huge organized scam
> >which gets two thirds of its participants a ride for the price of
> >a transfer, or nothing?
> >
> >I can see it...you get on the bus...see your brother give the secret
> >sign...exchange card for "Guerrilla Dollar" through the window...
> >brother takes ride for 30 cents...you make secret sign on the way
> >home...exchange Guerrilla dollar for warm card...or add a Guerrilla
> >quarter for "hot" card...double-glazed, free ride...or just go to
> >the clearing-house...you know the one which says "Gyros"...or the
> >one behind the sign which says "TURN for TAXIS"...
>
> I don't know if they ever figured this out, but in San Francisco
> paper transfers were free as you exited the bus. People would sell
> them on every street corner.
>
Hank Fung
Ron T. <ron...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I was in SF for a convention about 12 years ago or so, and the first time I
>heard someone yell "late night", I thought it was someone selling drugs. I
>later found out that they were selling transfers that were good until
>Midnight the same day.
>
>Do they still use paper transfers?
>
Yes, they do. Except, unlike what Aaron described, they hand them out at
the start of the trip, when fare is paid, rather while leaving.
Also, these days, they seem to be more discreet about it, asking
people one on one.
>BTW... Orange County, California recently stopped selling transfers, and now
>only sell day passes for not much more than the cost of two rides. It looks
>like they made a good decision with this one, and I hope that more transit
>agencies catch on.
>
Many agencies are going either this way or with the elimination of
restrictions on when a transfer can be used (i.e. San Diego, which
transfer is basically a three-hour pass).
And, yes, at some corners in OC, people hand day passes to someone,
who then proceeds to hawk it like a transfer. Usually, though, this
is in the late afternoon, and they can only sell it for $1.
--
Hank Fung fun...@ocf.berkeley.edu
University of California http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~fungus
Civil Engineering '03 "Commentary for the way we live (tm)"
Go Bears!
John Rappe
>
>Yes, but conceptually it's not hard to implement it--id each station
>and call all buses one "station". That makes let's say 150 ids in
>all, fits in one byte. Include station id with the time stamp. Now
>this breaks precisely in one case--when a bus breaks down, you get
>down and instantly catch another bus. What are the chances?
>
>Of course, considering the chances, I think "conceptually" it's
>even easier to just let your card cool off... But what's the time
>window?
According to CTA literature, when you get off at state and lake
and get on the red line, it doesn't charge you for the transfer.
So they must track the station the fare was paid, if that's true.
I seem to remember that the window was twelve minutes, but that
seems a bit long, I might have forgotten.
--
john
Adam H. Kerman
Historical note:
There used to be classes of trains that turned at 51st Street and 71st Street
to provide local service in Hyde Park.
Didn't some of those South Chicago Specials serve Van Buren but not Randolph?
A lot of service was lost 40 years ago that is probably needed today. I'd
rather see more Hyde Parkers using Metra Electric rather than the 6 Jeffrey
buses. But the question is would that induce many more people to ride the
South Chicago branch, switching from 14 South Shore Express, if there was
better service?
The Highliner cars accelerate much more slowly than the old single-level
cars they replaced. This affected the schedules from the start, particularly
in the city with such closely-spaced stations.
Adam H. Kerman
>Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:44:33 -0600, Matt Black <alb...@hotpop.com> wrote:
>|Justa Lurker wrote:
>|>I don't have the CTA rules in front of me, but isn't the ticket intended for
>|>transit from one point to another, with no returns? Many systems around the
>|>world boot people for overriding and riding back. Why not CTA?
>|Practically speaking, paying the CTA rail fare entitles you to ride wherever
>|you want in the rail system, for as long as you want, until you exit a
>|station's "paid" area by going through a turnstile.
>Practically but not legally.
I don't agree. There are no rules that prevent one from riding indefinitely as
long as you don't encounter a fare control. I don't suggest that CTA couldn't
implement rules that would prohibit this, but enforcement isn't cost effective.
>|However, I don't know what a passenger is *legally* entitled to in that
>|regard. The CTA has had regulations in the past that prohibited reverse
>|riding, but they applied much more to transferring between bus routes than to
>|rail riding, and anyway I don't think that any of those regulations is in
>|force right now. In other words, it is now perfectly legitimate to get on a
>|bus, pay the fare and get a transfer, and then to use that transfer for the
>|return trip on the same bus route. (The fare boxes are no longer programmed
>|to reject the transfer in that situation.)
They never were. Transfer cards are subject to a timeout at a bus fare box
or rail station entrance (12 minutes or 18 minutes, and I don't recall which
was which). Paper transfers were not accepted on the bus route or rail
segment of issue.
>|Of course, what makes the rail lines different is that at many places in the
>|system it's possible to change trains without going through a turnstile or
>|having your transfer card electronically punched.
>Transfers are generaly limited by time as well. You must use them quickly or
>they are worthless. The allday/allnight riders are on the system violate the
>number of hours that a ticket plus two transfers would allow.
They don't. They may not have had transfers in the first place. Why would they
need them, with very few connecting bus routes still running overnight. The
transfer rules apply ONLY to fare controls. The rules do not kick you off the
system two hours after your initial entry.
The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a need
for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink, no
one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
Adam H. Kerman
>However, at least a few months ago there was a bug in the system.
>It happened like this: I get on the bus, bus comes to a dead halt
>in two minutes, shows no sign of moving despite efforts by driver,
>I get off and walk over to the train station, train turnstile
>charges me full fare! Adam, any way to find out what the system is?
Likely, the bus fare box recorded the time on your transit card incorrectly.
That happens. The time is calibrated on the bus fareboxes when they are probed
for data overnight. Either the probe itself was mis-calibrated or the bus fare
box clock failed.
You are entitled to receive an emergency transfer from the bus driver. He
should have offered one to everybody.
Jude Crouch
> The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a need
> for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink, no
> one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
And washrooms. AFAIK. there are *zero* on the CTA system. But that is
not a homeless issue, it affects all of us, but especially the elderly
and infirmed. Can you think of another "public accomodation" that
can operate without washrooms?
Jude
--
Jude Crouch (jcr...@pobox.com) - Computing since 1967!
Crouch Enterprises - Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting
Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
Adam H. Kerman
>>>Right, and a clump of fareboxes having "local memory" is perfectly
>>>all right. But this is not what happened. Wonder if it is just too
>>>complex to implement...
>>I don't think there's any local memory involved at all. The fare box
>>just time-stamps your card (on the stripe) with the date and time of
>>the most recent full-fare use.
>Yes, but conceptually it's not hard to implement it--id each station
>and call all buses one "station". That makes let's say 150 ids in
>all, fits in one byte. Include station id with the time stamp. Now
>this breaks precisely in one case--when a bus breaks down, you get
>down and instantly catch another bus. What are the chances?
Each bus fare box has an ID, and each station entrance has the same ID for
all fare gates. Stations with multiple entrances have IDs for each entrance.
An error could be encountered if you get off a bus near the end of the route,
do a quick errand, then board the same bus for a return trip during the timeout
period. A full fare would be deducted, but the driver was supposed to have
entered a code for that trip to prevent that.
>Of course, considering the chances, I think "conceptually" it's
>even easier to just let your card cool off... But what's the time window?
I think it's 18 minutes at a bus fare box and 12 minutes at a rail station
entrance, but I could have gotten that backwards.
Adam H. Kerman
>According to CTA literature, when you get off at state and lake
>and get on the red line, it doesn't charge you for the transfer.
>So they must track the station the fare was paid, if that's true.
>I seem to remember that the window was twelve minutes, but that
>seems a bit long, I might have forgotten.
Two different concepts: If you use the same transit card multiple times during
the timeout period, it assumes that a group is traveling together on one card.
There's a unique bit of programming at State/Lake and Lake/Randolph mezzanine
to the State Street Subway. These recognize a two hour window separate from
the two hour transfer window. If the transit card or transfer card was last
used at another rail station (outside this group of three IDs), no ride or
transfer surcharge or full fare will be debited if you enter during the two
hour window. Yes, this allows someone to make a round trip without paying a
transfer surcharge or to board beyond the two hour transfer window.
It should be offered between the Roosevelt stations, between Jackson/State and
Library/State/Van Buren, and between LaSalle/Van Buren and LaSalle/Congress
where I occasionally transfer between Ravenswood and Congress or Douglas.
Mark Anderson
>But private security can be even worse. When the CTA had those
>rent-a-piggies with dogs patrolling the North-South el, I sometimes had
>a hard time figuring out which were stupider and more vicious: the
>uniformed goons or their dogs. I think that in order to qualify to be
>a rent-a-cop, it's necessary to fail an IQ test.
Or be a friend of Richie or the Duff's. Rent-a-cops typically get
paid a little higher than minimum wage or that of McDonalds which
means they aren't dipping into a talent pool full of geniuses.
I would bet that other than the FOP union opposition to this, Daley
would have no qualms allowing for an armed CTA police force even
though he opposes arms for everyone else. I read that the CHA police
force eventually became its own gang which is why it had to be disbanded.
Adam H. Kerman
>>The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a need
>>for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink, no
>>one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
>And washrooms.
I don't want the homeless bathing themselves in washrooms. I am talking about
genuine public showers and laundry facilities, but not on CTA.
>Can you think of another "public accomodation" that can operate without
>washrooms?
It's rather common, Jude. Fast food restaurants don't necessarily have
bathrooms for customer use, nor do retail stores. Metra Electric has no
bathrooms on the Highliner cars.
Mark Anderson
>That's typically the case; lots of people sleep on the trains and
>just blissfuly circle around the turnback track without ever knowing
>what happened. (If the train is actually going out of service, somebody
>comes and kicks everybody off).
I knew someone who rode the Blue Line to Logan Square, passed
out two stops before his, rode all the way to Ohare, turned around
and rode all the way to Forest Park, turned around and woke
up around Harlem going the right way towards Logan Square.
The one time I pass out on the train I wake up to some CTA goon
about to beat me with a billy club at Ohare.
Ron T.
They could apply for welfare and get more than enough to pay for a room at a
flop house, or they could do day labor. Picking aluminum cans out of the
garbage is another possibility, since they can get more than $1.00 per
pound. For those who are really desperate, there's always the homeless
shelters.
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote in message
news:D1bz4.4442$vz6.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
Tushar Samant
>>It happened like this: I get on the bus, bus comes to a dead halt
>>in two minutes, shows no sign of moving despite efforts by driver,
>>I get off and walk over to the train station, train turnstile
>>charges me full fare! Adam, any way to find out what the system is?
>
>Likely, the bus fare box recorded the time on your transit card incorrectly.
If, as you say, the boxes do have IDs, which do get stamped, time
is irrelevant. The reasonable thing is to compare IDs first. If
different, you charge according to standard rules. Further time
considerations come in only when the farebox detects it's seen
the card recently. So I think it was a bug in the ID system or
the algorithm.
Ron T.
streets. I understand that they're self cleaning! Why doesn't Chicago do
this as well?
Jude Crouch <jcr...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:8ajco0$mgm$1...@news.enteract.com...
> In chi.general Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
> > The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a
need
> > for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink,
no
> > one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
>
> And washrooms. AFAIK. there are *zero* on the CTA system. But that is
> not a homeless issue, it affects all of us, but especially the elderly
> and infirmed. Can you think of another "public accomodation" that
> can operate without washrooms?
>
>
Jude Crouch
> I never understood why a homeless person would need to sleep on a train.
> They could apply for welfare and get more than enough to pay for a room at a
> flop house, or they could do day labor. Picking aluminum cans out of the
> garbage is another possibility, since they can get more than $1.00 per
> pound. For those who are really desperate, there's always the homeless
> shelters.
Would that it be that simple. Many of the homeless have mental problems
or substance problems that make it difficult to do even menial tasks.
Welfare is no longer an option, welfare-to-work programs have eliminated
most of welfare except to children and mothers. Many of the homeless
go to shelters only at last resort because they feel safer on the street.
I am not at all being flippant here, but I would recommend that you
volunteer at a shelter for a while to get a handle on the problem.
It would do you soul a world of good. There's nothing like seeing a
problem firsthand to find that the simplest solutions are not so simple.
Adam H. Kerman
It first compares the ID of last use and the time stamp to figure out if it
should charge as if a group is riding together. If the ID of last use is the
same as the ID of the farebox or turnstile AND it is within the timeout period
AND the fare media is a regular transit card, it assumes a group is traveling
together. If it finds two different IDs, it doesn't attempt to enforce a rule
about not transferring in too short a time. There's no such rule, so that
can't be what happened to you.
With respect to a group riding together, it doesn't allow you to add a person
to your group at the second or third link in the trip. But members of the
group may drop off at the second or third link while allowing the others to
continue riding.
Tushar Samant
>It first compares the ID of last use and the time stamp to figure out if it
>should charge as if a group is riding together. If the ID of last use is
>the same as the ID of the farebox or turnstile AND it is within the timeout
>period AND the fare media is a regular transit card, it assumes a group is
>traveling together. If it finds two different IDs, it doesn't attempt to
>enforce a rule about not transferring in too short a time. There's no such
>rule, so that can't be what happened to you.
Well that's exactly what happened, is what I am saying. That was the
entire reason for even doubting that fareboxes stamped their IDs. In
other words, it WAS a bug, not explainable by a faulty clock.
Jacob M. Kaplan
<alb...@hotpop.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> Which leads to a further reason why the "homeless-hassling piggie" plan
> is so amazingly fucking stupid: If you're riding north on the Red Line
> and you want to turn around and go back, and if you know there's a
> piggie waiting to hassle you at Howard, then you simply get off the
> train at Morse instead, or at Loyola, and hop on the next southbound
> train that stops there. No big deal. Are the CTA people really stupid
> enough not to realize this? Or are they planning to post a piggie on
> every platform to stop people from doing this?
The simple fact is that most homeless people just stay on the train
(usually asleep) and ride around the loop at Howard to go back south. The
employees don't check if anyone is still on the train unless they are
laying it up in the yard. They could care less.
Jacob M. Kaplan
Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
> The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a need
> for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink, no
> one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
Yeah, so the answer is to kick them out onto Howard St., so it gets filled
up with more bums than it has now.
Jacob M. Kaplan
Crouch) wrote:
> And washrooms. AFAIK. there are *zero* on the CTA system. But that is
> not a homeless issue, it affects all of us, but especially the elderly
> and infirmed. Can you think of another "public accomodation" that
> can operate without washrooms?
The washrooms were obviously being used for sexual activity, and they were
closed because of that and probably because of other illegal activities
that were committed in them. I've never been able to determine when most
of them closed; they were still open in subway stations in the 70s, I've
heard. At least at those stations the agent's booth was positioned so that
the agent could see the people walking in and out.
Jacob M. Kaplan
Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
> It's rather common, Jude. Fast food restaurants don't necessarily have
> bathrooms for customer use, nor do retail stores. Metra Electric has no
> bathrooms on the Highliner cars.
How is it legal for restaraunts, even if they are fast food, not to have
bathrooms? I thought it was law.
Metra Electric is not an extremely long route (the longest trip being
about an hour, because of all the stops), so I guess Metra assumed they
weren't needed. I wasn't certain that all other Metra cars had bathrooms
until I realized that there were really tiny ones up at the front of the
older cars.
Jacob M. Kaplan
Crouch) wrote:
> Would that it be that simple. Many of the homeless have mental problems
> or substance problems that make it difficult to do even menial tasks.
> Welfare is no longer an option, welfare-to-work programs have eliminated
> most of welfare except to children and mothers. Many of the homeless
> go to shelters only at last resort because they feel safer on the street.
There's an abandoned buisness on Ravenswood across from the Rogers Park
Metra station where a homeless person has turned the space in front of the
door into his home. I see it every day, and it's quite sad.
Jacob M. Kaplan
<alb...@hotpop.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> But private security can be even worse. When the CTA had those
> rent-a-piggies with dogs patrolling the North-South el, I sometimes had
> a hard time figuring out which were stupider and more vicious: the
> uniformed goons or their dogs. I think that in order to qualify to be
> a rent-a-cop, it's necessary to fail an IQ test.
The dog cops were recently hired again. The rediculous thing is that the
night security guards at the CTA stations are unarmed. What good are they
going to do, when someone tries to mug someone else in the station, even
if the security guard is watching?
Jacob M. Kaplan
Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
> A lot of service was lost 40 years ago that is probably needed today. I'd
> rather see more Hyde Parkers using Metra Electric rather than the 6 Jeffrey
> buses. But the question is would that induce many more people to ride the
> South Chicago branch, switching from 14 South Shore Express, if there was
> better service?
Having just ridden the South Chicago branch for the first time, I must say
that it is under-utilized. Metra should convince more people to use it, as
I'm sure many people who take the #6 and #14 are in that corridor and
could walk or take a bus to a South Chicago station. Many of the people
taking those buses are people who used to or would switch to the Jackson
Park "L" at 63/Stony if it were still running to there. Maybe the Electric
could serve the same purpose.
Michael Dix
LaSalle/Van Buren L station
(north side of the street). It was a classic model with a raised water
tank and
a pull chain. No sink, of course. That's when I was living in Blue
Island and
going to school at Northwestern. I was in commuter heaven, with a choice
of the Rock
Island or the IC downtown. From the Rock Island to the "Evingston"
express was a scenic walk
amid the empty Gallo White Port bottles. The EE let me out two blocks
from the Tech Institute. On the way back I would usually take the CNW
downtown, then the Rock Island home (no problem with a monthly Metra
pass).
Mike Dix
Jude Crouch wrote:
>
> In chi.general Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
> > The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a need
> > for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink, no
> > one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
>
> And washrooms. AFAIK. there are *zero* on the CTA system. But that is
> not a homeless issue, it affects all of us, but especially the elderly
> and infirmed. Can you think of another "public accomodation" that
> can operate without washrooms?
>
> Jude
>
pete in chicago
> Presumably, they'll let Frunobulax the dog handle it.
>
> The guards and their dogs are probably intended to be mainly a
> deterrent to crime. I'm sure they have instructions to radio for a cop
> if they see a crime being committed. Personally, I think it's a good
> thing that they're unarmed. Not that I go around mugging people in CTA
> stations at night, but I think we've got enough goons with guns on the
> streets already.
personally i think frunobulax should be armed...give the guns to the dogs
--
matt...don't take this wrong way
but you're as fucked up as i am...another man in here with 9 years of college
pete in chicago
> pete in chicago wrote:
>
> > personally i think frunobulax should be armed...give the guns to the dogs
>
> Bullets can't stop it...
you know matt - the more education you get...the less you give a shit
--
matt gets a patch and a small "m"
Adam H. Kerman
>>It's rather common, Jude. Fast food restaurants don't necessarily have
>>bathrooms for customer use, nor do retail stores. Metra Electric has no
>>bathrooms on the Highliner cars.
>How is it legal for restaraunts, even if they are fast food, not to have
>bathrooms? I thought it was law.
No. OSHA requires washrooms for employees. Health codes employees to wash their
hands before preparing or serving food and after using the toilet. But no law
prevents any restauranteur from treating customers like shit.
Adam H. Kerman
I don't understand why you say that. If the clock stamped the wrong time on
the card that could have happened.
However, we shall see. Give me the particulars. Date and time of incident,
what routes used, what rail station you boarded at. Serial number of
transit card. I'll ask someone to check the log.
David Jensen
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote in
<Vxgz4.5131$vz6.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com>:
I think that is state by state. In Wisconsin it appears that all
restaurants must have rest rooms available.
Tommy the Terrorist
ka...@Genesis.Denninger.Net writes:
>Or the New York cops who slaughtered the guy on the steps of his own
>apartment building - he was armed with.... a WALLET! (Never mind that of
Yeah, right... remember, that's the COPS' story. The guy, needless
to say, hasn't been heard from.
I bet he tried to report a bunch of those pigs selling dope or some
such idiot stunt, and they just came after him and shot him down
like an animal based on any flimsy story they could work out
together.
Tushar Samant
>Tushar Samant <Tb...@pimpdaddy.com> wrote:
>>a...@chinet.chinet.com writes:
>
>>>It first compares the ID of last use and the time stamp to figure out if it
>>>should charge as if a group is riding together. If the ID of last use is
>>>the same as the ID of the farebox or turnstile AND it is within the timeout
>>>period AND the fare media is a regular transit card, it assumes a group is
>>>traveling together. If it finds two different IDs, it doesn't attempt to
>>>enforce a rule about not transferring in too short a time. There's no such
>>>rule, so that can't be what happened to you.
>
>>Well that's exactly what happened, is what I am saying. That was the
>>entire reason for even doubting that fareboxes stamped their IDs. In
>>other words, it WAS a bug, not explainable by a faulty clock.
>
>I don't understand why you say that. If the clock stamped the wrong time on
>the card that could have happened.
It charged me full fare at a *different* turnstile, MAN! Do you really
think the clock was more than two hours behind?
>However, we shall see. Give me the particulars. Date and time of incident,
>what routes used, what rail station you boarded at. Serial number of
>transit card. I'll ask someone to check the log.
It was of a blustery winter morning, sometime last year...all forgotten,
all resentment consigned to a bright-burning faith...and for many months
now there's just been a card-shaped depression in my chest pocket...and
a faint magnetic afterglow...I'll note everything down if it happens again.
Adam H. Kerman
>>If the clock stamped the wrong time on the card that could have happened.
>It charged me full fare at a *different* turnstile, MAN!
I know that. You said you came from a bus!
>Do you really think the clock was more than two hours behind?
Yes. Sometimes that's happened to a bunch of buses at a garage before they
notice it.
>>However, we shall see. Give me the particulars. Date and time of incident,
>>what routes used, what rail station you boarded at. Serial number of
>>transit card. I'll ask someone to check the log.
>It was of a blustery winter morning, sometime last year...all forgotten,
>all resentment consigned to a bright-burning faith...and for many months
>now there's just been a card-shaped depression in my chest pocket...and
>a faint magnetic afterglow...I'll note everything down if it happens again.
We'll run your chest through the card reader and get the information. Actually,
if you still have the card, they can check the logs. They keep them for years.
Jeff Kurland
"David Jensen" <da...@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:pd7rcs8ic5ksuoh9u...@4ax.com...
In some states, only restaurants that have liquor licenses need to have
public rest rooms.
Daniel Salomon
: And washrooms. AFAIK. there are *zero* on the CTA system. But that is
: and infirmed. Can you think of another "public accomodation" that
: can operate without washrooms?
The NYC subway originally had rest rooms in all stations. Most are now
closed to the public, but a few remain open in some major stations.
Sometimes you can recognize where the former bathroom was by the tile
mosaic over the door. Sometimes they are painted over, but you can still
see the tiles in a circle that formed the O in WOMEN.
-Dan
nobody
train station if the money went into maintainance, supplies and vandelism
repair? Maybe pass holders could be buzzed in for free?
Daniel Salomon <dsal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:8akouq$k7p$4...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
Enosification
says...
>
>Would anyone object to paying a quarter every time they used a restroom in a
>train station if the money went into maintainance, supplies and vandelism
>repair? Maybe pass holders could be buzzed in for free?
>
Ahh. You're reminding me of my travels in Europe. Depending on the country
you're in, the major stations had restrooms where you'd pay a Swiss Franc,
Deutch mark, 2000 lira, whatever. Those washrooms would be attended and were
sparkling clean. I found those to be safe havens when you had those moments of
human urgency. Pardon my Roe and Garry.
Lancelot appearing sideways
> It charged me full fare at a *different* turnstile, MAN! Do you really
> think the clock was more than two hours behind?
Hmm, I wonder what would happen if you tried to transfer and your card
was stamped in the future? That is, suppose the bus' clock said
4:05pm, then you got to the train turnstile and its clock said 3:55pm;
what would it do then?
It's also very possible that the bus' clock was more than two hours
behind, seems to me; maybe it completely reset, and had started over
from midnight January 1, 1970 or something. Maybe its power got cut
off for some period of time. This seems very possible to me,
particularly since this doesn't seem to be a regular occurrence.
/
:@-) Scott
\
David J. Craven
"Jacob M. Kaplan" <jka...@macsrule.com> wrote in message news:jkaplan-
>
> Having just ridden the South Chicago branch for the first time, I must say
> that it is under-utilized. Metra should convince more people to use it, as
> I'm sure many people who take the #6 and #14 are in that corridor and
> could walk or take a bus to a South Chicago station.
I frankly don't understand all of the people that get on the Jeff within a
few feet of the Metra stations in Hyde Park and then get off right on
Michigan. I always take the IC. Much faster and more importantly, much
mroe reliable. The other day I took the 6 as I was I had just missed the
train and the next one was in 30 minutes. And I got home 10 minutes later
than if I had just waited the 30 minutes for the IC. Just the travel time
on State Street alone is reason to switch.
And with better service - the IC should swamp the buses.
Jon W.
ingot cash price is around $1600/ton.
or could it be you're just making stuff up? thought so.
"Ron T." <ron...@yahoo.com> writes:
>I never understood why a homeless person would need to sleep on a train.
>They could apply for welfare and get more than enough to pay for a room at a
>flop house, or they could do day labor. Picking aluminum cans out of the
>garbage is another possibility, since they can get more than $1.00 per
>pound. For those who are really desperate, there's always the homeless
>shelters.
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote in message
>news:D1bz4.4442$vz6.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
>> Jude Crouch <jcr...@pobox.com> wrote:
>> >Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>The issue with respect to "helping" the homeless is bathing. There is a
>need
>> >>for public shower facilities and washing machines. If they didn't stink,
>no
>> >>one would care if they fell asleep on the trains.
>>
>> >And washrooms.
>>
>> I don't want the homeless bathing themselves in washrooms. I am talking
>about
>> genuine public showers and laundry facilities, but not on CTA.
>>
>> >Can you think of another "public accomodation" that can operate without
>> >washrooms?
>>
Ron T.
charges a deposit (CRV) of $.025 per can, and many recycling centers will
pay $1.05 to $1.10 per pound. Oregon charges $.05 and Michigan charges $.10
per can! Indiana and Wisconsin are close by, what do they charge?
Jon W. <jo...@ripco.com> wrote in message news:8am5i8$add$1...@gail.ripco.com...
David Jensen
"Ron T." <ron...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<5exz4.20$a36....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
>No, I was under the impression that IL had a deposit on cans. California
>charges a deposit (CRV) of $.025 per can, and many recycling centers will
>pay $1.05 to $1.10 per pound. Oregon charges $.05 and Michigan charges $.10
>per can! Indiana and Wisconsin are close by, what do they charge?
Wisconsin does not have a deposit law, but we do have mandatory
recycling.
Jacob M. Kaplan
<dcr...@removeforspam.tradelaw.com> wrote:
> And with better service - the IC should swamp the buses.
The only problem is that the schedules aren't nearly as frequent as the
buses, even in rush hour. The #14 runs every 2 minutes in the evening
rush!
Justa Lurker
<dcr...@removeforspam.tradelaw.com> wrote in
misc.transport.urban-transit:
Wonder how Metra would compare if they only charged $1.50 a ride to
get to South Chigago? Paying $1.95 keeps people off Metra.
JL
CTA: A real life example of cheap and dirty?
Matt Hucke
John Rappe <jmr...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>According to CTA literature, when you get off at state and lake
>and get on the red line, it doesn't charge you for the transfer.
I've done this twice since the new system went in and was charged
a full fare each time.
Nice scam they've got going there.
--
Matt Hucke (hu...@cynico.com) |
Cynico Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
Author, "Graveyards of Chicago" |
http://www.graveyards.com/ |
greg byshenk
> "David J. Craven" <dcr...@removeforspam.tradelaw.com> wrote:
> > And with better service - the IC should swamp the buses.
> The only problem is that the schedules aren't nearly as frequent as the
> buses, even in rush hour. The #14 runs every 2 minutes in the evening
> rush!
But with what appears to be a _huge_ speed difference, this shouldn't
be that much of a factor. As David pointed out:
> > The other day I took the 6 as I was I had just missed the
> > train and the next one was in 30 minutes. And I got home 10 minutes later
> > than if I had just waited the 30 minutes for the IC.
That is (if I understand rightly): hopping on a bus _right now_ still
gets you to your destination _later_ than does waiting 30 minutes for
the next train.
--
greg byshenk - gbys...@byshenk.net
hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org>
<http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html>
Adam H. Kerman
>>According to CTA literature, when you get off at state and lake
>>and get on the red line, it doesn't charge you for the transfer.
>I've done this twice since the new system went in and was charged
>a full fare each time.
>Nice scam they've got going there.
Jeeze.
Would you all report these things? I know who to yell at.
Date, time, location, serial number of your transit card, bus route (vehicle
number if possible), rail station entrance.
Don't want to call 888 YOUR-CTA? I don't blame you. So send me email and
I'll track it down and maybe get you action or a refund or something.
Adam H. Kerman
>Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:41:34 -0600, "David J. Craven" <dcr...@tradelaw.com>
>|"Jacob M. Kaplan" <jka...@macsrule.com> wrote:
>|>Having just ridden the South Chicago branch for the first time, I must say
>|>that it is under-utilized. Metra should convince more people to use it, as
>|>I'm sure many people who take the #6 and #14 are in that corridor and
>|>could walk or take a bus to a South Chicago station.
>|I frankly don't understand all of the people that get on the Jeff within a
>|few feet of the Metra stations in Hyde Park and then get off right on
>|Michigan. I always take the IC. Much faster and more importantly, much
>|mroe reliable. The other day I took the 6 as I was I had just missed the
>|train and the next one was in 30 minutes. And I got home 10 minutes later
>|than if I had just waited the 30 minutes for the IC. Just the travel time
>|on State Street alone is reason to switch.
>Wonder how Metra would compare if they only charged $1.50 a ride to
>get to South Chigago? Paying $1.95 keeps people off Metra.
What are you talking about? Compare the price for commuters on the 14 versus
Metra Electric South Chicago branch:
average 21 workdays a month (52 x 5 - 6 / 12)
$57.27 on 14 (use of transit card discount)
$52.65 on Metra Electric South Chicago branch (purchase of monthly pass)
As Jacob pointed out, the 6 and 14 have incredibly frequent rush hour service,
just a minute or 90 seconds apart. But you'll find a seat on the
Metra Electric. However, the 14 will give you a one-seat ride west on Madison
if you are going to the west side of the Loop. The east side has the same
coverage on the 6 or Metra Electric.
Ron Newman
gbys...@byshenk.net wrote:
> But with what appears to be a _huge_ speed difference, this shouldn't
> be that much of a factor. As David pointed out:
>
> > > The other day I took the 6 as I was I had just missed the
> > > train and the next one was in 30 minutes. And I got home 10
minutes later
> > > than if I had just waited the 30 minutes for the IC.
>
> That is (if I understand rightly): hopping on a bus _right now_ still
> gets you to your destination _later_ than does waiting 30 minutes for
> the next train.
But in cold or rainy weather, a short wait followed by a long bus ride is
much preferable to a long wait followed by a shorter train ride.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
David J. Craven
"Ron Newman" <rne...@thecia.net> wrote in message
news:rnewman-1503...@ppp39-109.thecia.net...
> But in cold or rainy weather, a short wait followed by a long bus ride is
> much preferable to a long wait followed by a shorter train ride.
Hmmm. Personally I prefer waiting in the train station (under cover) over
standing in an overheated, steamy, crowded CTA bus. I guess its preference.
In bad weather, I would wait an awful long time before I would take CTA.
neil klopfenstein
>Wonder how Metra would compare if they only charged $1.50 a ride to
>get to South Chigago? Paying $1.95 keeps people off Metra.
As a South Chigago resident, the reason I ride the CTA over the Metra is
not the 45-cent price difference, but that I can almost never take -just-
the Metra to where I want to go. If I want to go from the south side to
smack-dab-in-the-center-of-the-Loop, then fine, it's Metra all the way.
Far more often I want to go somewhere, oh, say, on the north side. CTA:
one bus, one train, possibly another bus, $1.80. Metra: one train, another
train, possibly a bus, $3.45 and up. Never mind that all this transferring
takes a lot of time (especially with Metra's schedules).
Now maybe, just maybe, if in some distant fantasy, the CTA and Metra could
have a common fare.. ah, but this is the stuff of legends.
--neil
Ron Newman
<dcr...@removeforspam.tradelaw.com> wrote:
> > But in cold or rainy weather, a short wait followed by a long bus ride is
> > much preferable to a long wait followed by a shorter train ride.
> Hmmm. Personally I prefer waiting in the train station (under cover) over
> standing in an overheated, steamy, crowded CTA bus.
Is the train station enclosed? (Most commuter rail stops around
Boston are not.)
David J. Craven
> > Hmmm. Personally I prefer waiting in the train station (under cover)
over
> > standing in an overheated, steamy, crowded CTA bus.
>
> Is the train station enclosed? (Most commuter rail stops around
> Boston are not.)
The Downtown stations are real stations, the METRA non-downtown stations are
not, but they have some enclosure (and more importantly, the trains run on
time so the waiting time inbound is not that long). In contrast, the CTA
stops are never properly sheltered, and the buses, particularly the Jeffrey,
are very irratic.. make that very very irratic.
The CTA stinks. It is one of the worst run transit systems in the country
and while the advocacy groups try very hard, they have had little impact.
Adam H. Kerman
>The CTA stinks. It is one of the worst run transit systems in the country
>and while the advocacy groups try very hard, they have had little impact.
I do my best.
Adam H. Kerman
>Justa Lurker wrote:
>>Wonder how Metra would compare if they only charged $1.50 a ride to
>>get to South Chigago? Paying $1.95 keeps people off Metra.
> As a South Chigago resident, the reason I ride the CTA over the Metra is
>not the 45-cent price difference,
UofC, huh. You use transit frequently, so you should be using transit cards
and Metra 10 ride tickets and compare the price of a one-seat ride to the
Loop that way. The difference is 30 cents, $1.36 versus $1.66.
>but that I can almost never take -just- the Metra to where I want to go. If
>I want to go from the south side to smack-dab-in-the-center-of-the-Loop, then
>fine, it's Metra all the way. Far more often I want to go somewhere, oh, say,
>on the north side. CTA: one bus, one train, possibly another bus, $1.80. Metra:
>one train, another train, possibly a bus, $3.45 and up. Never mind that all
>this transferring takes a lot of time (especially with Metra's schedules).
That would be $1.64 versus $3.30. If you were travelling to the north side,
you might take Metra Electric to the Loop, but you'd channge to the State
Street Subway or one of the many buses, depending on where. You wouldn't
cross the Loop to use the UP North Line. For one thing, there are few
connections, though I have changed between trains only 10 minutes apart with
a run across the Loop on a weekend.
If you could use Metra on a weekend, though, the $5 unlimited pass is cheaper
than four CTA single-ride fares on a transit card, $5.45. $6.55 if you'd need
a transfer.
> Now maybe, just maybe, if in some distant fantasy, the CTA and Metra could
>have a common fare.. ah, but this is the stuff of legends.
Obviously, we agree.
However, for daily commuters in the city who can take advantage of Metra or
CTA, Metra fares are cheaper. It's a well-kept secret.
Hanse Coloursmay
in a poorly-elucidated diatribe on Re: Metra Electric and bus transit to
South Shore, Chicago neighborhood:
>
>However, for daily commuters in the city who can take advantage of Metra or
>CTA, Metra fares are cheaper. It's a well-kept secret.
even cheaper when your office particpates in the mayor's pre-tax farecard
program. one of the nicer things about taking the train in the morning.
-hanse coloursmay
--
fear the destructor. love your mother. eat tastykakes.
song of the body thetan choral society:
making constant things variable for n+3 years
Jacob M. Kaplan
"nobody" <n...@here.com> wrote:
> Would anyone object to paying a quarter every time they used a restroom in a
> train station if the money went into maintainance, supplies and vandelism
> repair? Maybe pass holders could be buzzed in for free?
No. But the fact is, if, as it is usually in Chicago, the bathroom is near
the agent's booth, it can be easily patrolled and checked for cleanliness
often. I don't know why all the bathrooms were closed here; in my
expierence, almost all are near an agent's booth, and I think the bathroom
would be locked when no agent was on duty. Don't forget, stations also
used to have drinking fountains too! They certainly used to have many more
amenities than nowadays.
David J. Craven
"Mark Gibson" <gib...@bluestem.prairienet.org> wrote in message
news:NM2A4.678$J8.209@firefly...
> A short drive from one's garage to the covered parking at one's office
> beats any form of transit in nasty weather. No waiting, either...
I don't know where you are driving to/from, but that sure isn't my
experience. I find that Metra completely and totally wipes out driving as
well. On those occasions where I must drive somewhere in the evening, I
often will drive in the morning to the other side of town and part near a
Metra line and take it in to work. In the evening, I pop on Metra, avoid the
downtown traffic and off I go. The worse the weather, the better Metra.
When I was living in non-Metra, but CTA area, I would often walk home if the
weather got real bad. From Wacker and State to Clark and Webster I would,
on occasion, beat the buses during blizzards, and I certainly enjoyed it a
lot more. Cars are not good options. (Of course, I also commute by Bicycle
on occasion during warm weather...)
Dan Hartung
news:szbz4.13637$qa.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> New York City is installing some high tech portable pay toilets on
the
> streets. I understand that they're self cleaning! Why doesn't
Chicago do
> this as well?
Actually, no. There was a project to do this, but it was cancelled at
the last minute when it turned out there would have been advertising
contracts for Giuliani pals worth $millions.
Somewhat biased account:
http://pages.prodigy.net/johncross/Lederman44.htm
The toilet supplier, JC Decaux, calls itself "Exterior Communications"
company on its website -- basically "Outdoor Advertising".
Dan Hartung
news:szbz4.13637$qa.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> New York City is installing some high tech portable pay toilets on
the
> streets. I understand that they're self cleaning! Why doesn't
Chicago do
> this as well?
Ah, 2nd reply. The toilets have been installed in San Francisco (as
early as
1995). I do agree it's an excellent idea, but like the disappearance
of pay
phones, I believe people adapt by working around the problem.
Jacob M. Kaplan
<gib...@bluestem.prairienet.org> wrote:
> A short drive from one's garage to the covered parking at one's office
> beats any form of transit in nasty weather. No waiting, either...
At least at most Metra stations, you can wait in heated buildings....
Jacob M. Kaplan
<dcr...@removeforspam.tradelaw.com> wrote:
> I don't know where you are driving to/from, but that sure isn't my
> experience. I find that Metra completely and totally wipes out driving as
> well. On those occasions where I must drive somewhere in the evening, I
> often will drive in the morning to the other side of town and part near a
> Metra line and take it in to work. In the evening, I pop on Metra, avoid the
> downtown traffic and off I go. The worse the weather, the better Metra.
Ever considered taking a bus to Metra instead of supporting the nasty Park
n' Ride lots?