Beta 0.0.12 Released
Chris
handful of new monsters. For those that want to test new monsters,
you can summon them from Wizard Mode by pressing Ctl+A, n, and then
entering the monster's numeric identifier (found in r_info.txt). Up
Next: The Duelist!
Get the latest release here: http://code.google.com/p/chengband/
Stay tuned, and submit issues and ideas at:
http://code.google.com/p/chengband/issues/list
Cheers,
--Chris
Dave Zhang
Dave
---
David Yu Zhang, Ph.D.
Howard Hughes Medical Institute Fellow of the Life Sciences Research Foundation
Wyss Institute, Harvard University
Dave Zhang
I was thinking for Talos and the Spellwarp Automata to be very difficult for mages to kill, and hard (but not impossible) for melees to kill.
Vice versa for Tonberries.. very difficult to warriors to kill, just hard for mages.
Also, I'm noticing that the Spellwarp Automata damage is low, comparatively speaking. 4 attacks at 10d10 = 4*55 = 220 damage. Reduce by 60% for AC becomes 88. Talos is at 4 attacks for 15d15 = 4*120 = 480, after reduction becomes 192, which seems reasonable.
Maybe let's try 200 AC, +0 speed, 5000 HP, 4x 10d15 attacks for normal Spellwarp Automata.
For Talos: 250 AC, +10 speed, 15000 HP for Talos.
Also, normal Spellwarp Automata should get a 1 in 5 chance of casting Disintegrate. Otherwise they're way too easy for Archers to kill.
Similarly, Tonberries should get a Teleport-To Spell.
Actually, I think Teleport-To should be one of the spells considered for Spell Revenge. If you're a Greater Titan and you're ticked off at an opponent, teleporting him to you is a very valid response.
Dave
Dave Zhang
Also Talos has yet to Mana Storm me, despite some 50 rounds of fighting. Several Psycho-Spears and Breath Logrus, but no Mana Storm. He also doesn't seem to get ticked off when I shoot him with arrows?
Maybe an Animated Death Scythe should be guaranteed to drop a Death Scythe upon defeat?
Dave
Chris Kousky
I got mana stormed by Talos plenty, but his speed and the fact that he
doesn't get ticked off make it rather rare. I think just upping his
speed from -5 to +10 will make all the difference. I'm not sure about
the arrows thing ... probably a bug.
BTW, have you had any problems getting to the project site? Its been
quite flaky for me the past few days, going down completely for over
30 minutes a couple of times!
--Chris
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Dave Zhang
Dave Zhang
Ah, yeah, I sometimes get Google site problems too. I thought maybe it was a Firefox bug, because if I just shut down Firefox completely and restarted it, it was fine. But maybe it was a site error that got cleared up in the few minutes that I took me to restart Firefox.
Dave
Chris Kousky
<David...@wyss.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Good to know :D Yeah, I noticed that Great Storm Wyms do get ticked off at
> arrows, so at first I thought you intentionally disabled "ticked off" for
> Talos.
Its probably the resist all flag. The code assumes if a monster has
this flag, then it is the Metal Babble, and I'm trying to find all of
those hidden assumptions and fix them. I'll look into this before the
next release.
Chris Kousky
> Several Psycho-Spears and Breath Logrus, but no Mana Storm. He also doesn't
> seem to get ticked off when I shoot him with arrows?
I can't reproduce a problem here ... He gets ticked off when I shoot
him, and the consequences are less than pleasant :) Monsters only get
ticked off if they are more than 1 square distant. Were you by any
chance standing right next to him while shooting? Monsters will still
prefer to melee if they are next to you.
BTW, I'm removing shatter from the normal automatons. What happens is
that Talos summons his minions, and they shatter and entomb Talos,
which is frustrating. Alternatively, I can give Talos kill wall ...
Chris Kousky
> Good ideas ... I'm not ignoring you, just working on the Duelist :D
You land a perfect strike against the Spellwarp Automaton.
It was a good hit!
You hamstring the Spellwarp Automaton
the Spellwarp Automaton is dealt a *WOUNDING* strike.
Your Vorpal Blade goes snicker-snack!
You maim the Spellwarp Automaton!
You do 4121 (out of 2268) damage.
Sweet :)
Chris Kousky
wounding strikes are added in or not. Vorpal Blade is pretty rare ...
David Zhang
Also, in retrospect, maybe wounding and greater wounding should be fraction of current hp rather than total hp...
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
David Zhang
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
Chris Kousky
David Zhang
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
Chris Kousky
This class has a hard time finishing as your damage output decays down
to around, as an example, 70hp/round with Vorpal Blade!
We can either put a floor under monster hp used in the calculation
(say, 500, or perhaps 10% of monster max hp), or we could put a floor
under the calculated damages for each of the wounding strikes.
Thoughts?
--Chris
Dave Zhang
Vorpal Blade is 5d5(+32,+32), so that's 47 damage (or 57 with vorpals). I'm assuming you get the full STR bonus of +20 for 67 damage (or 77 with vorpals).
Your duelist +todam bonus of (+10 + clvl/2 - WeaponWeight) comes out to +20 for the 15 lb Vorpal Blade. So that's 87 damage, or 97 with vorpals.
Plus, the lvl 10 Careful Aim ability, gives gives you an automatic crit to double that (which I was imagining as not giving the monster a save) would be 174, or 194 with vorpals.
With 194 base damage, you can kill things with up to about 500 HP remaining, if you score both the Wounding and the Greater Wounding.
If necessary, I would prefer we up the base damage on attacks rather than set a minimum on the Wounding and Greater Wounding effects. (We could potentially increase the clvl-based bonus +todam further, or we could make the Careful aim effect become triple damage at some level).
Dave
Dave Zhang
Chris Kousky
> double that (which I was imagining as not giving the monster a save) would
> be 174, or 194 with vorpals.
Wait, do you mean treat the weapon as a normal sharp weapon, which
only cuts 1 in 6, or do you mean *always* score a cut 1 in 1? That
makes a big difference :D
BTW, I'm adding up all damages before application to the monster. So,
if you land a wounding and greater wounding in the same round, you
score 60% of current monster hp before the round began.
Dave Zhang
Ah, ok. The way you're doing it is the same as applying the Wounding and Greater Wounding effects first. That sounds good.
Dave
Dave Zhang
Dave
Chris Kousky
> because vorpals encourage weapons with large damage dice, which are usually
> heavy and not fitting with the flavor of Duelists)
I agree ... the vorpal on a rapier seemed rather useless to me. And
if you already had Vorpal Blade, then it was totally useless!
Chris Kousky
[1] Dueling with a Poison Needle scarcely seems honorable! I made
Poison Needles disrupt talents.
[2] Blows are always capped to 1. Quickthorn, Shiva's Jacket, Rings
of Extra Attacks have no effect.
[3] Unending Pursuit sometimes fails.
[4] Current target is not highlighted (I'm not sure how to do this
...) but it should be pretty clear who your current target is.
[5] Uniques cannot be hamstrung. They can be stunned unless they have NO_STUN.
[6] Seems too powerful so far ... I'll let you play test before making
changes. But a 40% shot at 2k damage just seems too high, especially
as they never miss. The way the RNG works, you get many of these in a
row quite frequently. Still, using wizard mode to gauge game balance
is difficult. I really need to play one to see.
[7] Weapon skills are meaningless since this class never misses.
Still, I tried to theme them for dueling weapons.
Dave Zhang
[1] Dueling with a Poison Needle scarcely seems honorable! I made
Poison Needles disrupt talents.
Oh, good call there. (Completely forgot about that case.) Do they still get an improved fatal rate with the Poison Needle?
[2] Blows are always capped to 1. Quickthorn, Shiva's Jacket, Rings
of Extra Attacks have no effect.
[3] Unending Pursuit sometimes fails.
Fails in what way? Following enemy's teleport, or avoiding enemy's teleport other, or both?
[4] Current target is not highlighted (I'm not sure how to do this
...) but it should be pretty clear who your current target is.
I was a bit worried that you'll have problems distinguishing who your target is if you are marking one monster out of a pack. Let's playtest to see if this is actually a problem.
[5] Uniques cannot be hamstrung. They can be stunned unless they have NO_STUN.
OK.
[6] Seems too powerful so far ... I'll let you play test before making
changes. But a 40% shot at 2k damage just seems too high, especially
as they never miss. The way the RNG works, you get many of these in a
row quite frequently. Still, using wizard mode to gauge game balance
is difficult. I really need to play one to see.
They're supposed to be strong in 1v1. How do they fare in a fight vs. 3-4 monsters? Say, 4 Dracolichs?
[7] Weapon skills are meaningless since this class never misses.
Still, I tried to theme them for dueling weapons.
Never misses versus their marked foe. If you're lazily wading through orcs, that might matter. Along a similar line of thought: maybe we should make it so that the 2x crit from Careful Aim also applies to non-marked foes at clvl 30? That way, it's like you have 2 blows vs non-marked monsters.
Dave
Chris Kousky
>> [1] Dueling with a Poison Needle scarcely seems honorable! I made
>> Poison Needles disrupt talents.
>>
>
> Oh, good call there. (Completely forgot about that case.) Do they still
> get an improved fatal rate with the Poison Needle?
No, I was just too lazy to code for the Poison Needle, which is a
giant hack anyway. I'll add them if you really want, but I don't
think it adds much to this class. Duels are supposed to be honorable
challenges, no? Though I suppose poison may have been used by
nefarious types ... 50%+ odds of killing your opponent seems too
powerful anyway.
>> [3] Unending Pursuit sometimes fails.
>>
>
> Fails in what way? Following enemy's teleport, or avoiding enemy's teleport
> other, or both?
>
Following a teleport has always failed 1 in 3. I kept those odds in
place for the Duelist. And for the sake of symmetry, I put a 1 in 3
chance of failure when blocking the enemy's teleport other.
>>
>> [4] Current target is not highlighted (I'm not sure how to do this
>> ...) but it should be pretty clear who your current target is.
>>
>
> I was a bit worried that you'll have problems distinguishing who your target
> is if you are marking one monster out of a pack. Let's playtest to see if
> this is actually a problem.
It might be a problem with packs.
>> [6] Seems too powerful so far ... I'll let you play test before making
>> changes. But a 40% shot at 2k damage just seems too high, especially
>> as they never miss. The way the RNG works, you get many of these in a
>> row quite frequently. Still, using wizard mode to gauge game balance
>> is difficult. I really need to play one to see.
>
> They're supposed to be strong in 1v1. How do they fare in a fight vs. 3-4
> monsters? Say, 4 Dracolichs?
Yeah, when Talos summons kin, I reach for the Ctl+A, 'z' command
fairly quickly :) Still, we might consider capping the greater
wounding strike at 1000. Let's play test first, though.
>>
>> [7] Weapon skills are meaningless since this class never misses.
>> Still, I tried to theme them for dueling weapons.
>
> Never misses versus their marked foe. If you're lazily wading through orcs,
> that might matter. Along a similar line of thought: maybe we should make
> it so that the 2x crit from Careful Aim also applies to non-marked foes at
> clvl 30? That way, it's like you have 2 blows vs non-marked monsters.
>
True. Let's hold off on changes for now. I don't find marking weak
targets bothersome at all yet ...
Dave Zhang
I'm looking forward to playtesting!
Dave
Dave Zhang
Dave
Chris Kousky
wrap things up (Oh, and the artifact rapier). Some are coding
challenges, so it is taking a little bit of work. This is a hard
class to implement :P
45 - Darting Duel. 50hp. Charge to your target up to 5 squares,
attack, and strafe.
Too powerful? Strafe will probably leave you too far away to repeat.
Chris Kousky
<David...@wyss.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Any chance of 0.13 soonish? I'm itching to play the duelist... :D
Its up ... I rushed it out, so I probably made some bugs :D I need to
work on the phase charge a bit. I did a teleport to effect, and
decided I don't like it. For example, I can phase charge my foe on
the other side of a town building ...
Anyway, let me know what issues you find.
David Zhang
Dave
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David Zhang
Dave
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David Zhang
I revise my earlier opinion... CON penalty should be like -3 for balance.
Dave
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David Zhang
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Chris Kousky
I was just checking line of sight. I added a check for visibility as well.
>> Dead... Got cocky and tried to take on the logrus master at clvl 14. Woulda won, except the loser healed himself!
I *never* do the Logrus Master. ... even at CL30 he has won!
>>
>> I revise my earlier opinion... CON penalty should be like -3 for balance.
OK. My Duelist Mindflayer just got whomped with -5 Con for
Race/Class! Good thing I picked a Patient personality, and have been
choosing Con on every level up :)
>>>> Been trying out the duelist and loving it so far. Quick point... Maybe we should make it obvious to the player if the monster is in charge or acrobatic charge range? Nothing sucks more than coming up 1 distance short, and having your foe bash you the next round...
I added a confirmation prompt if your target is out of range. You can
cancel the charge and not pay any energy costs.
Dave Zhang
mid-30's really sucks for the duelist, perhaps moreso than it should. At clvl 38, you're getting something like 100 base damage versus monsters, and your Wounding (effective 40% of the time) is only 80 extra damage, for a damage of 180. Sure, you have stunning and slowing effects, but 180 is light even considering those.
Maybe let's make the Wounding and Greater Wounding caps sliding?
Wounding: 20% of monster's HP, (clvl * 10) cap. At lvl 20, it'll still be 200, but it'll increase to 500 at clvl 50.
Greater Wounding: 40% of monter's HP, ((clvl-20) * 50) cap. At lvl 40, it'll be 1000, and will increase to 1500 at clvl 50.
This also decreases the total damage done by the duelist at clvl 50 by about 10%.
Also, Phase Charge is a bit too expensive at 100 HP. Maybe let's reduce to 60 HP?
Finally, I like your idea for Darting Duel, it's very in-flavor. We need to make sure Spell-Revenge is triggered for this (and only this) though, because otherwise it becomes too powerful.
Continuing Wounder, the Klackon Duelist, who's found an awesome Defender dagger with RPois and RNether!
Cheers,
Dave
Dave Zhang
Also... in keeping with the spirit of duelists being "honorable" warriors, maybe the marked target should be awoken upon marking? We'll need to figure out something else for a clvl 5 ability.
Dave
Dave Zhang
Dave
Chris Kousky
canceling a spell for the duelist adds back the spell cost to your hp.
You won't see this right away, until your hp are damaged by some
other means, or you cast another spell.
Why this stupid bug? Well, mana casters pay their spell costs up
front (remember your force cyclone experience). But if they cancel
the spell, we need to add back the cost. Originally, I was doing the
same thing for hp casters, but later reversed my decision: hp casters
pay costs after the spell completes.
Anyway, this is only in the new spell code, currently only used by
Archaeologists (normal mana casters) and Duelists (hp casters). I
have yet to migrate all the other casters over to new code.
--Chris
Dave Zhang
We should make it so that the player has to decide between at least 2 different stats for these level-ups ;-)
Dave
Chris Kousky
> maybe the marked target should be awoken upon marking? We'll need to figure
> out something else for a clvl 5 ability.
How about this: If you are afraid, you can still attack your foe but
only your foe? Call it Fearless Duel or something.
Dave Zhang
Dave
Dave Zhang
Dave
Dave Zhang
Dave
Chris Kousky
<David...@wyss.harvard.edu> wrote:
> I changed the Release Wiki for Greater Wounding to be (clvl-20)*50, instead
> of (clvl-20)*15. That's what you meant, right?
Yeah (... double checks code ...)
>
>>
>> Possible.. but I'm not sure why this would ever result in having HP higher
>> than max? Also, cost of Charge is only 8 HP, while I was 26 above my max...
Code was: p_ptr->chp += spell->cost;
That'll bump up hp indiscriminately! I get a lot of "You can't charge
since so and so is out of line of sight". That would bump your hp up
as well. As for 26 above max, regeneration probably kicked in, at
which point the screen repainted and you noticed.
Just a theory, of course. There might be another bug some place ...