Beta 0.0.18 Released
Chris
Basically, I decided to fix the mutation code so that I could
implement some desired changes in the future. This also necessitated
rewriting all the racial and class powers as well! Basically,
anything in the 'U' command might be affected. So far, everything
I've tried has continued to work, but with 96 mutations and nearly 100
racial and class powers ... well, odds are high that something got
messed up. So, test the waters gingerly :) Also, keep an eye on fail
rates with 'U' powers ... I've switched over from the mutation fail
rate system (which randomized casting costs, fail rates, calculated
level and stat bonuses oddly, etc) to the more familiar spell failure
system (-3% fail for each level, stat helps fail rate using standard
table and the fully adjusted stat rather than the instrinsic stat,
stats determine minimum fail rates). Probably, some things are out of
balance now.
But its been a while since the last release, so despite my
reservations, here it is.
Get the latest release here: http://code.google.com/p/chengband/
Stay tuned, and submit issues and ideas at:
http://code.google.com/p/chengband/issues/list
Cheers,
--Chris
Dave Zhang
I have to say, I *really* don't like the direction you're taking with the Blood Knight. The Blood Knight, in my mind, is a high-adrenaline, death-around-every corner type of reckless character, and losing high level characters should be part of the Blood Knight experience. By switching to a Blood points system, you're encouraging the Blood Knight to farm for Warriors of the Dawn. Blood explosion for 100 HP, doing 500 HP of damage means that you can do LoS kills on Great Wyrms... provided you have farmed enough blood points.
Anyway, you've already coded the new features, and Antiguard clearly has a lot of ideas for how he wants to see the class. I would like you to consider the idea of restoring Blood Knight to its original (0.17) design, and then forking off a new class (Blood Crafter/Caster) that deals more with the different Blood points and various different types of !oBlood. That way, there will both be a reckless class and a slow/steady farming class.
For now, I'll continue playing the 0.17 Blood Knight.
Cheers,
Dave
---
David Yu Zhang, Ph.D.
Howard Hughes Medical Institute Fellow of the Life Sciences Research Foundation
Wyss Institute, Harvard University
Chris Kousky
was, but we really need a way to address the Blood Pool. Capping
quantity at 30 is completely artificial, and I don't really like that.
BTW, consider what the Blood Point cap means for Blood Explosion. You
only get 20 casts and you are out. For the Serpent, you won't be able
to recharge at all. If the cost is just hitpoints, then character can
farm for infinite healing much more quickly then they can farm for
blood points. If the cost is 500hp, then it will just never get any
use. HM do that damage for 32sp.
I am open to ideas. Please, what would you like to see done for the
Blood Pool? It is broken at the moment. Crafting potions of healing
is broken. I'm trying to fix it in a way that is in keeping with the
flavor of this class. My other idea was to require the sacrifice of a
human corpse, but I don't like that.
Dave Zhang
Re: Blood Pool. How broken is it at the moment? I haven't had a Blood Knight survive up that high, so I can't really tell. My feeling is that limiting to 30 of them sounds reasonable though (4500 HP of healing). While 30 is completely artificial, you could easily justify it by saying that you can control your blood to be fresh to an extent due to being a Blood Knight. But you need a certain amount of concentration to keep each potion fresh, 30 is the most you can do at a time. If you really don't like the idea of limiting the number, then a different way is to nerf it to healing only 100 HP, but keep the number available unlimited. If 100 is still too high, make it 75. At some point, the weight/slot constraints will outweigh the benefits of endless small healing.
Re: Blood Point cap for Blood Explosion. 20 casts is 10k damage! It's 1/3 of the Serpent's HP, and enough to take out all but the strongest Uniques. It's also a ranged attack, which I was trying to limit for Blood Knights. Farming for Healing has never been easy or feasible for me. The cost is 500 HP, and a HM does it for 32 SP, but a Nature HM also heals 500 HP for a similar amount of SP. To me, the Blood Explosion is meant to be a way of killing a bunch of weak mobs in the late game, and not meant to be a staple offensive. Not every end-game power is a staple powerhouse... Look at Harikiri for the Samurai! :-D Or even Call the Void for Chaos...
Dave
Chris Kousky
> Knight survive up that high, so I can't really tell. My feeling is that
> limiting to 30 of them sounds reasonable though (4500 HP of healing). While
> 30 is completely artificial, you could easily justify it by saying that you
> can control your blood to be fresh to an extent due to being a Blood
> Knight. But you need a certain amount of concentration to keep each potion
> fresh, 30 is the most you can do at a time. If you really don't like the
> idea of limiting the number, then a different way is to nerf it to healing
> only 100 HP, but keep the number available unlimited. If 100 is still too
> high, make it 75. At some point, the weight/slot constraints will outweigh
> the benefits of endless small healing.
Well, here are my thoughts:
[1] Restricting to 30 is hard to implement. How to keep characters
from cheating? Of course, I can check how many are in your inventory,
and your home. But what about the floor of the dungeon? What about
dungeon shops? What about the floor of dungeon levels you have left?
(Currently, that is not possible since all info is swapped out to
disk). OK, let's get around that by keeping a global counter. Fine.
Increment on creation. Decrement on quaff. But then there is
breakage. OK, I can find that code. Monster theft? Hmmm ... you
might get it back if you kill the monster. What if the monster casts
teleport level? Dropped on the floor? Well, you might pick it up ...
or a monster might crush it. Sold to the shop? You might buy it
back. Or the shop might shuffle its inventory. I could probably do
this, but I wouldn't enjoy doing it. If I mess up tracking, players
might get screwed. And scattering logic for one class for one
particular item across the code base in 10 to 20 spots is not
something I'd like to do. We have enough of that already.
[2] With a 30 restriction, here is how I would play for all but The
Serpent. I would craft my 30 potions in the town, recall down to the
dungeon, and find 1 tough monster to kill. With my 4500hp healing, it
should be no problem, though healing in line of sight is not a good
idea. Then I would recall back and craft 30 more. I call this style
of play "One and Done."
Pretty munchkin, but I admit it is not beneath me. Especially if I
start to get frustrated at any point in the game. OK, other classes
do this as well, certainly with a couple staves of healing. But those
are hard to find, heavy, can have charges drained, and blow up in a
much more lumpy fashion then potions.
Here are my proposals:
[A] Do nothing. Players are on the honor system.
[B] Implement the 30 max restriction. I'd probably play as in [2] and
I don't think that is in character with this class.
[C] Prohibit stacking of potions of blood. Make them more powerful.
How many inventory slots would you sacrifice for potions? But again,
there is [2].
[D] Require something to make something. This is consistent with
Archers needing skeletons to make ammo. There just needs to be some
natural limitation on how many potions you can make in addition to
just regenerating your infinite supply of hit points, IMO. This was
what I was shooting for with the blood point system. Sure, you could
farm humans. But even running the Killing Fields would only get you
enough for 8 or so, and 10 max since the points capped out. I'm less
likely to farm humans, and much more likely to recall scum with the
Jewel of Judgement for potions of *healing*.
[E] Remove spell and replace with something else. How about an early
vampiric branding (no diamond edges, of course)? Personally, I've
never used vampiric branding before, since it generally comes so late,
which is why something like CL30 might make sense for this class.
Ultimately, you will swap out your vampiric blade of chaos for some
decent artifact.
> Re: Blood Point cap for Blood Explosion. 20 casts is 10k damage! It's 1/3
> of the Serpent's HP, and enough to take out all but the strongest Uniques.
> It's also a ranged attack, which I was trying to limit for Blood Knights.
> Farming for Healing has never been easy or feasible for me. The cost is 500
> HP, and a HM does it for 32 SP, but a Nature HM also heals 500 HP for a
> similar amount of SP. To me, the Blood Explosion is meant to be a way of
> killing a bunch of weak mobs in the late game, and not meant to be a staple
> offensive. Not every end-game power is a staple powerhouse... Look at
> Harikiri for the Samurai! :-D Or even Call the Void for Chaos...
I'm OK with this. I only changed it since it seems useless as an
offensive spell as is, but if that was never its intention then that
is fine.
--Chris
Dave Zhang
Restricting to 30 is easy to do if you implement the rule "If a !oBlood ever leaves your inventory (by theft, drop, or sell), it automatically turns into a !oSaltWater." Your !oBlood requires your constant concentration to maintain its vitality. That way, you only ever need to check to see if they're more than 30 in the player's inventory.
Well, here are my thoughts:
[1] Restricting to 30 is hard to implement. How to keep characters
from cheating? Of course, I can check how many are in your inventory,
and your home. But what about the floor of the dungeon? What about
dungeon shops? What about the floor of dungeon levels you have left?
(Currently, that is not possible since all info is swapped out to
disk). OK, let's get around that by keeping a global counter. Fine.
Increment on creation. Decrement on quaff. But then there is
breakage. OK, I can find that code. Monster theft? Hmmm ... you
might get it back if you kill the monster. What if the monster casts
teleport level? Dropped on the floor? Well, you might pick it up ...
or a monster might crush it. Sold to the shop? You might buy it
back. Or the shop might shuffle its inventory. I could probably do
this, but I wouldn't enjoy doing it. If I mess up tracking, players
might get screwed. And scattering logic for one class for one
particular item across the code base in 10 to 20 spots is not
something I'd like to do. We have enough of that already.
Do you really do "One and Done" up until past clvl 45? In my experience, "One and Done" is primarily for grunting through clvls 30 to 40. Past clvl 40, you're either well-geared, or you are dead. That's why I initially set Blood Pool at 45.
Another way to prevent the player from constantly going back to town to re-craft !oBlood other than the ones you mentioned is to just not to have a limit, and nerf the effectiveness of the !oBlood. Make it heal 100 HP or 75 HP, if unlimited 150 HP healing is too strong. I mean, in essence I already do this with other classes and !oCCW in the late game, if I don't have BerserkSelf mutation. !oBlood is just a slightly stronger and more available replacement for !oCCW.
Cheers,
Dave
[2] With a 30 restriction, here is how I would play for all but The
Serpent. I would craft my 30 potions in the town, recall down to the
dungeon, and find 1 tough monster to kill. With my 4500hp healing, it
should be no problem, though healing in line of sight is not a good
idea. Then I would recall back and craft 30 more. I call this style
of play "One and Done."
Pretty munchkin, but I admit it is not beneath me. Especially if I
start to get frustrated at any point in the game. OK, other classes
do this as well, certainly with a couple staves of healing. But those
are hard to find, heavy, can have charges drained, and blow up in a
much more lumpy fashion then potions.
Chris Kousky
> leaves your inventory (by theft, drop, or sell), it automatically turns into
> a !oSaltWater." Your !oBlood requires your constant concentration to
> maintain its vitality. That way, you only ever need to check to see if
> they're more than 30 in the player's inventory.
That's a really good idea. The only oversight is that casting must
then place it in your inventory rather then on the ground beneath you
as is normally done, but that is easily surmounted. I will ignore
thieves ...