How different are the iMax B6 and iMax B6mini

[Alan Hantke]

The iMax B6 has been updated by the iMax B6Mini.  The specifications on the later are also better (6A versus 5A). I want to tinker around with the cheali charger firmware so I am on the hunt for an inexpensive target.  The B6 seems like a decent candidate but if I am going to buy one, I'd prefer the mini version.  Therefore, I'd like to ask the simple question of: Will the cheali-charger B6 version work on the B6Mini?

Thanks,
Alan

[Paweł Si]

Hi Alan,

2015-02-13 4:35 GMT+01:00 Alan Hantke <a.fly...@gmail.com>:

The iMax B6 has been updated by the iMax B6Mini.  The specifications on the later are also better (6A versus 5A). I want to tinker around with the cheali charger firmware so I am on the hunt for an inexpensive target.  The B6 seems like a decent candidate but if I am going to buy one, I'd prefer the mini version.  Therefore, I'd like to ask the simple question of: Will the cheali-charger B6 version work on the B6Mini?

 

unfortunately it will not work,

this is what I found about the B6 mini, PCB:

http://mysku.ru/blog/ebay/28966.html

CPU: MA84G564 

http://www.megawin.com.tw/megawin_CH/ProductShow.asp?ID=216

It's an old intel mcs-51 architecture.

datasheet: http://www.megawin.com.tw/megawin_ch/UploadFiles/MA84G564_DataSheet_CN_v1.211.pdf

(only in Chinese)

probably a similar processor:

http://www.megawin.com.tw/megawin_EN/UploadFiles/MG82Fx564_A1.0.pdf

So we definitely don't support this architecture yet,

but if you have some free time you could try to add it to cheali-charger.

Best Regards,

Paweł

[Alan Hantke]

Thanks Pawel...
You know, I may just do that.  I spent 3 years writing firmware for an 8051 based product; however, that was also 10+ years ago and it was also all in assembly code.  I haven't worked in C or C++ in probably 20 years now.  Nowadays I have joined the masses and write code for backends that ultimate provide data to the web (so, Java mostly, but also C# and a bit of Scala).  I've been looking for something to get me closer to the hardware again, which is my original background. 

Alan

[Paweł Si]

2015-02-13 16:51 GMT+01:00 Alan Hantke <a.fly...@gmail.com>:

Thanks Pawel...
You know, I may just do that.  I spent 3 years writing firmware for an 8051 based product; however, that was also 10+ years ago and it was also all in assembly code.  I haven't worked in C or C++ in probably 20 years now.  Nowadays I have joined the masses and write code for backends that ultimate provide data to the web (so, Java mostly, but also C# and a bit of Scala).  I've been looking for something to get me closer to the hardware again, which is my original background. 

they may be some problems with this processor,

we are using c++ in this project (although only a small subset of c++)

I've tried to find a c++ compiler for it, and could only find IAR

http://www.iar.com/Products/IAR-Embedded-Workbench/8051/

but there is also another solution, it's probably possible to use a translator from c++

into C code, and to compile the C code with a normal (open-source ;) ) C compiler.

[Alan Hantke]

I've written IAR but I'm guessing the adage of "if you have to ask, you cannot afford it" probably holds true here.  When a company only provides a "Request a Quote" link.... Well, you get the idea! :-(  A translator from C++ to C is doable but just adds another level of pain to the process.  My concern is that I would be further complicating the scenario here.  After all, there are other roadblocks to consider: I have no schematics for ports assignment, it has been awhile since I've worked in 8051 land, I am unfamiliar with the Cheali codebase, I don't know about debugging with the micro in question (in my old system I used an emulator, which I unfortunately got rid of 2 months ago, but it is possible this micro has a JTAG port... not sure yet), translating from C++ to C may work, but it also makes porting improvements back into the original codebase difficult, the opposite is also true (fixes/improvements in the original codebase are difficult more difficult to port forward if you have modified the C at all.  Essentially this is a less than ideal situation.  It might make more sense to buy an ATMega based charger first to get my feet wet.

Alan

[Alan Hantke]

I also have to say that although the 8051 was a stellar micro-controller in its time, it is darned near 25+ years old now.  The amount of power, addressing space, etc in the newer designs is simply phenomenal.  In fact, I was a little stunned when Pawel indicated that the *new* B6 charger was designed around an 8051 derivative.  It is a curious choice.

[Alan H]

Annndddd.... Here is the email I received from IAR.  I think it is safe to say that they are not a viable option for a bloke electing to participate in an open source project!

Alan,

 

Thanks for the email. Below are our are various EW8051 pricing options. If you are interested please let me know where you are located and I will have the appropriate IAR Systems Account Manager get you a formal quote.

 

We have 2 versions of our Embedded Workbench for the 8051 Family. A Base Line Version (Part # EW8051-BL) that limits you to 8K of complied for $1295 and an Unrestricted Version (EW8051) for $2,995. We allow you to upgrade from the Base Line Version to the Unrestricted Version at a later date for the price difference of the licenses. These are Node Locked Licenses that get tied to a PC.

 

The above licenses can also be bundled with a USB Dongle which we call Mobile Licenses. This allows you to easily move the license to another PC by moving the Dongle. The Base Line Version (Part # EW8051-BL-MB) is $1495 and the Unrestricted Version (Part # EW8051-MB) is $3445.

 

A Floating License of the Unrestricted Version (Part # EW8051-NW) is $3995 and the Base Line Version (Part # EW8051-BL-NW)  is $2295. This allows you to have 1 Simultaneous User.

 

The Unrestricted license prices come with 1 year of Support and Updates. The Base Line Versions do not come with any Support.

 

So the Unrestricted choices are:

 

EW8051                Node Locked                     $2995

EW8051-MB       USB Dongle                        $3445

EW8051-Net1    1 User Network                 $3995

 

We also rent the Unrestricted licenses.

 

•         Two rental variants:

•         12 months - 60% of the corresponding license price

•         3 months - 25% of the corresponding license price

•         At the end of the rental period the customer can either:

•          Purchase a perpetual license (discount is 50% of total paid rental fee)

•          Enter a new rental period

•          Terminate the license

[Paweł Si]

2015-02-13 18:26 GMT+01:00 Alan Hantke <a.fly...@gmail.com>:

I also have to say that although the 8051 was a stellar micro-controller in its time, it is darned near 25+ years old now.

"25+ years old"

This is the main reason why I personally  wouldn't want to invest my time in this charger,

although the CPUs parameters are quiet nice: 12bit ADC, USB 2.0

 

 The amount of power, addressing space, etc in the newer designs is simply phenomenal.  In fact, I was a little stunned when Pawel indicated that the *new* B6 charger was designed around an 8051 derivative.  It is a curious choice.

If you what infest you time in this - great!, if not, I would advise you to try to find a imax B6 charger with a M0517 ARM Cortex-M0 

CPU, it's just better then the atmega32 one.

Best Regards,

Paweł

 

 

[Jose Silva]

Intel 8051 is 25 years old, don't underestimate those recent Silabs CPU's they are a real beast on 8 bits field 

[Vladimir Zidar]

Jose,

weird addressing modes, ram layout and lack of real stack makes them really unpleasant to work with. You end up thinking more about how to overcome those limitations, then to actually implement whatever you are implementing in the first place.

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[Jose Silva]

Remember 8 bits , no sense to use 8bits with memory intensive applications,   if want big memory STM32 is the one to go