2002 EV RAV4 on eBay

[Marty Swartz]

Boy, it certainly has been quiet in here lately....

If anybody is coveting Illah's RAV4, be advised that there is an EV
RAV4 listed on eBay, item 280611614352. Claims to be new in 2002. Ah,
if my pockets were deeper I'd be telling you about a SOLD vehicle on
eBay...

[Ben Brown]

Thanks for the pointer, Marty. It looks to be in good condition. Some
details for anyone interested:
Model year: 2002
Mileage: 53K
Price: $23.5K starting bid ($25.5K buy now) (no bids so far)
Location: Northern CA
Battery pack: original
Range: 70 miles + (just tested)

Ben

[Marty Swartz]

Actually, Ben that auction has already closed. To my amazement, nobody bid on it! From the comments, I gather that there was concern about the health of the battery pack. If nothing else, it sure would make a logical and straightforward donor vehicle for a ChargeCar conversion!

- Marty

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Ben Brown <h...@cs.cmu.edu> wrote:

Thanks for the pointer, Marty. It looks to be in good condition. Some details for anyone interested:
Model year: 2002
Mileage: 53K
Price: $23.5K starting bid ($25.5K buy now) (no bids so far)
Location: Northern CA
Battery pack: original
Range: 70 miles + (just tested)

       Ben

--
"What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it; boldness has genius, power and magic in it." Johann von Goethe

[Freund, Ron (Ron Freund, SSRT)]

If anyone in PA is seriously interested in this one, I know the owner, and have the tool to get a current reading on the battery resistances. We could make arrangements to gather that data. Serious inquiries only.
The care is 200 miles away from me.
Ron
EV+PV=near self-sufficiency in energy!
-

Ben

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[JackC]

I’m just an interested lurker on the group, but it seems to me that at $25.5k this vehicle is very uneconomic.

Currently the Blue Book value for a conventional 2002 Rav4 is under $10k.

Given the current price of petrol at around $3.30 per gallon; for $15.5k I can drive about 4700 gallons worth. This would take me (at 22mpg) 103k miles.

Assuming you could get this electric vehicle to run for another 100k miles without a major battery overhaul (which I’d seriously doubt), and you still have to pay for charging it, what could possibly make it worth this cost.

 

JackC

 

From: char...@googlegroups.com [mailto:char...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marty Swartz
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:59 AM
To: Ben Brown
Cc: char...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChargeCar] 2002 EV RAV4 on eBay

 

Actually, Ben that auction has already closed. To my amazement, nobody bid on it! From the comments, I gather that there was concern about the health of the battery pack. If nothing else, it sure would make a logical and straightforward donor vehicle for a ChargeCar conversion!

- Marty

--

[Neil Blanchard]

Hello,

> I’m just an interested lurker on the group, but it seems to me that at $25.5k this vehicle is very uneconomic.
> Currently the Blue Book value for a conventional 2002 Rav4 is under $10k.
> Given the current price of petrol at around $3.30 per gallon; for $15.5k I can drive about 4700 gallons worth. This would take me (at 22mpg) 103k miles.
> Assuming you could get this electric vehicle to run for another 100k miles without a major battery overhaul (which I’d seriously doubt), and you still have to pay for charging it, what could possibly make it worth this cost.
>
>

> Actually, Ben that auction has already closed. To my amazement, nobody bid on it! From the comments, I gather that there was concern about the health of the battery pack. If nothing else, it sure would make a logical and straightforward donor vehicle for a ChargeCar conversion!

I ran the numbers a while back: at $2.75/gallon and typical dealership service charges, you would save ~$12K in 100,000 miles. So, at $3.30 that number goes up to about $14K. And I'll bet the battery *does* last at least that long (unless it is damaged already); as there are examples out there with over 150K miles on them.

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

[Freund, Ron (Ron Freund, SSRT)]

Frankly, if you are comparing a 2002 ICE RAV4 to the EV version, it is an invalid comparison. I know you're not a candidate when you start with that line of reasoning... There are virtually no components the ICE that are usable. A conversion of an ICE means making new mounting brackets for all hardware that never initially resided there, then doing a full systems integration, etc. Labor at minimum wage alone to do that in the 200-300 hours needed for someone who's walked down that path before exceeds any estimates you can look up. Longer for others.

A 2002/3 RAV4EV has custom motor mounts (the ICE inner wheel panels have different stampings), 4 computers, a custom battery tray housing the NiMH, etc. I guess about $15K-20K worth of custom electronics which can't be created in a garage for anything near the price they asked for the car originally. You simply can't compare these two vehicles. If you want a DC-powered "look alike" figure $15K min., to create it.

Those factory EVs will have a certain collectors value and someday may be listed in Hemmings, for all we know.
The run of the mill RAV4 starting with the 2 door version in 1995 can be had for pennies on the dollar in wrecking yards, nationwide. If a conversion is what you want to do, start there. This car has good batteries, especially given the low miles on its clock. It's well worth the money, and while it won't win a race, it is a very reliable and capable EV.

Think of the 4700 gallons worth of CO2, time 19.54 lbs/gal. That is not a savings. But are you concerned about such? Another consideration, regardless of your political persuasion! ;)

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: char...@googlegroups.com [mailto:char...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Blanchard
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:40 AM
To: char...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChargeCar] 2002 EV RAV4 on eBay

Hello,

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

--

[JackC]

Surely for service costs you can only include the cost of maintenance items
related to the ICE, the rest of the maintenance structure still applies.
Given the car is $25.5k, what extra must be added in KWH to charge the car
for 100k miles?
This site had some very rough numbers...
http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/electric-car-cost-per-mile.html
Here they quoted $0.10/mile for gas and 3.4c/mile for electric.
Using these number the total cost for the electric is $25.5k + (100k * 3.4c)
= $25.5k + $3400 = $28.9k
Remember I didn't include the cost of a battery change...just assumed it was
likely.
I still see this as non-economic even with the service cost.

JackC

-----Original Message-----
From: char...@googlegroups.com [mailto:char...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Neil Blanchard
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:40 AM
To: char...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ChargeCar] 2002 EV RAV4 on eBay

Hello,

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

--

[JCreasey]

I totally understand your point of view Ron but would suggest you are
talking about a niche purchaser in your case. If the car was intended to be
bought by someone who viewed it as cheaper than "DIY" solution, then maybe
they could justify it. Clearly as it didn't sell, no-one in this bracket
could justify the price.
From my perspective I suggested that someone who wanted to "go electric" and
was not a hobbyist it was not a good deal unless I wanted to lead a charge
in greenhouse reduction and was willing to pony up a lot of cash to prove my
commitment.
I'm an ElecEng background, and work in high tech computer design, so do
understand both the power systems and the computer networks involved. Don't
pre-suppose because I dinged the deal that I simply don't understand.

..and IMHO it's a stretch to think a Rav4 (even electric) would be
considered a "classic car"

JackC