Re: [chaos-community] Digest for - 3 updates in 1 topic

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Amit Saha

Nov 24, 2020, 6:31:37 AM11/24/20
to Nina Schiff, Chaos Community

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020, 6:25 pm Nina Schiff, <> wrote:
Stepping back a bit, as this might help with deciding content, who is this training for? And what role are they looking to be hired into? And at what sort of companies?

My impression of various certifications is that they're tied to very specific tech in a very specific area (thinking of all the various networking ones here). Ie. After getting this certification you are guaranteed to know the various ways you can configure this family of Cisco switches, etc. What would be the equivalent here?

In my experience, with chaos engineering, most people involved in this at the larger tech companies have broader software or sre backgrounds. At least at the companies I've worked at, my guess would be that having large scale systems experience would trump a certification like this. 

So I guess the question for me, before investing a ton of time here, is what's the value add? Why a certification instead of an online resource? If people pay money to be certified, is there a ROI for them? What are the skills that potential employers know people certified as such have (especially if platform agnostic)?

Great points. I have also realised that the experiments you run eventually needs deep domain knowledge to be close to the scenario that may happen. It is not a general set of skills that a certification will completely capture. Hence certification may eventually become software heavy. 

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 16:36 <> wrote:
Jason Yee <>: Nov 23 09:13AM -0800

@Michael, You can register for the Chaos Engineering Community slack at Enter your email on the page and it'll generate the
invite for you.
@Mikolaj, I think the in-person call will likely have the same
accessibility challenge as the Slack (i.e. not everyone can/or wants to
join). But I think at this early stage, more conversations (no matter where
they occur) are good. We just need to ensure we're cross pollinating those.
Would you mind ensuring that someone takes good notes and posts them back
to the group here?
On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 3:54 AM Abhishek Mitra <>
Jason Yee
Director of Advocacy
Jason Yee <>: Nov 23 09:45AM -0800

@Lefty I think you might be scoping too broadly with your document and it
might end up containing literally every technology, cloud service provider
and tool.
Looking at certification from an educator/curriculum design perspective, it
usually starts with the question, "What should the student/certified person
be able to do?", then breaks that down into the tool/skill groupings:
covered in the curriculum, prerequisite knowledge, or not required (which
indicates something is out of scope, needs to be reworked, or needs
discussion). If you start with the tools first (e.g. your example with
kubernetes, Azure and CentOS), you inevitably get an overly broad scope
(e.g. now you need kubernetes, Azure and CentOS knowledge to to Chaos
Engineering, which of course is problematic for those who are doing Chaos
Engineering on on-prem Windows Server VMs).
So as an example of the skill/knowledge first -> tools/skills second:
- A certified Chaos Engineer should be able to test a DNS failure in
CoreDNS and design/implement mitigation to keep applications functional
during a DNS outage.
- Prerequisite skills/knowlege: What DNS is & how it works
- Covered: DNS failure modes, identifying them and mitigation
- Out of scope: We likely don't need to cover CoreDNS, but maybe we need
to cover Kube-dns.
- Needs discussion: Should Kubernetes be covered and added to the
prerequisites? If so, how much Kubernetes should the curriculum cover and
how do we determine what specific technologies to cover? If not, can this
be simplified to just "be able to test a DNS failure"?
Starting with the skill/knowledge first will help us be able to define
scope easier and more quickly.
Jason Yee
Director of Advocacy
"" <>: Nov 23 01:05PM -0800

Hey all,
I've scheduled a meeting for this Wednesday, 25 Nov, 8pm GMT (the slot with
maximum number of people according to the doodle). Invited everyone in this
Video conference:
Google doc for agenda and minutes:
(public access).
See you there!
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