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These are all the publications related to Bios Theory and biotic motion mentioned in the Science Citation Index and INSPEC.
systems". Cybernetics and Systems. 30: 261–294. line feed character in |title= at position 69 (help)
in human heart beats". International Journal of General Systems. 29: 799–830. line feed character in |title= at position 69 (help)
processes". Kybernetes. 32: 829–836. line feed character in |title= at position 67 (help)
economic bios from 1/f noise". Kybernetes. 32: 692–702. line feed character in |title= at position 66 (help)
XaosBits 23:26, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
(As of early 2006, six researchers distinguish another type of
behaviour, biotic motion as a type of motion of a dynamical system,
which they claim is distinct from chaotic motion. The six researchers
were identified among the authors of articles covered by the Web of
Science.)
This is simply false! As of 2006 there are more than 6 researchers. You can say 6 researchers that were indentified by Web of Science.Lakinekaki 05:23, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
And if others are found, this can be changed. This is a wiki. Septentrionalis 06:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Dear gentlmen, I think that we may need a help here from a mediator. It seems that all of us have certain emotions on the subject and ideas about importance/validity of this line. We are being subjective. Do you agree that we decide on this line thru mediation process?Lakinekaki 16:17, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I started an article on the circle map; I'll try to add better graphics as the weeks go by, including a devils staircase and the "biotic motion" graph, as well as the subharmonic path to chaos, which will make Lakinekaki spin, because in the subharmonic case, there are three!! branches that period-double in one cell, before eventually going "biotic". However, a non-zero Ω is needed to see that behaviour. Anyone have good refs on these subharmonic routes? linas 19:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I feel a bit uneasy with the section "Description of theory". It starts with saying that there are five types of motion. Are these really exhaustive? This is a bit of a difficult question, because the types are not really defined. Is there a theorem behind this?
Perhaps I should try to formulate my problem in another way. How would the Lorenz system be classified? In what sense is the set of periodic conditions dense? -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Jitse Niesen reverted a biotic motion line edit with the following explanation: Description of the theory - remove bios theory - chaos theory is a huge discipline maths/physics, not all parts can be explained here, and bios theory is just to small to be mentioned here)
It seams to me that you have ignored the whole discussion about biotic motion presented above. Lakinekaki 19:25, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I think that the list of different types of motions should be deleted alltogether. As I thought, it is not exhaustive. A simple motion that is not included is converging to a fixed point, as for instance happens with the system with . So I would replace the list with a sentence like "A dynamical system can exhibit many kind of motions, ranging from the regular to the erratic. Chaos theory studies chaotic motions." (or perhaps delete it without putting anything else in place). -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Now that's a good introduction to chaos theory! Good job XaosBits. Lakinekaki 11:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
If I have a spectrum, is there some way of telling if its "chaotic"? To the eyeballs, the eigenvalues seem to be occurring at "random" values, but I was wondering if there's some better way of classifying beyond just a "gee this looks random" result. linas 14:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I just realized that my scepticism regarding your counting of researchers who distinguish bios in the Web of Science was justified. At the website of the Journal of Nonlinear Dynamics, Psychology, and Life Sciences [1] you can see that this journal IS abstracted in the ISI Web of Science (through PsycINFO). I was right when I claimed that you conducted research (although a very poor one that would not pass peer review), and you were incompetent of finding the journal in the list (although you had access to ISI while I didn't and could not verify your claim). FYI, here [2] they show that NDPLS has an impact factor of 1.90.
NDPLS is currently abstracted in:
PsycINO (American Psychological Association)
ISI Web of Science (through PsycINFO)
JEL/Econlit (American Economic Association)
Medline (National Library of Medicine)
Proquest (1997-2003 issues at the present time)
ScienceDirect (Elsevier)
Scopus (Elsevier)
FYI, Cybernetics and Systems is 7th out of 18 journals in Computer
Science, Cybernetics (Science), with an impact factor of 0.768. [3]
It was very interesting for me to observe your (other editors included) behaviour regarding this whole bios thing. (I wanted to see how far you would go, and I was keeping some arguments just in case - like the one with the video game) You were so resistant to this new idea that you were not familiar with that you rewrote the whole section in order to eliminate biotic motion link from it (because you could not find argument that would justify its deletion in the past form). I am certain that anyone who is not specialized in chaos theory would not react like few of you did. If an intelligent person (non-specialized in these areas) would read chaos and bios articles, that person would not had biases that you had. You tried to attack me personally for adding this bios thing (that I did because I was familiar with it - I cannot add things I am not familiar with, while you wanted to substract things you were unfamiliar with!), while it is so obvious that all of you are chaos fans. linas for example goes often to chaos related seminars - so he said. What are chances that he is not doing research in that field? XaosBits has access to ISI, why would non-researcher have this? From his contributions to wikipedia, it is obvious what is his area of research - chaos. Gandalf61 has also contributed with so many chaos related articles.
Linas told me somewhere I should try to make friends on wikipedia. I don't need this kind of friends. What was friendly in your actions. Maybe generosity that XaosBits mentioned by allowing 'Bios theory' to be an article in wikipedia and also a link in 'See also' section here. He is not in a position to be generous. Wikipedia is not his petpedia!
PS. Gandalf61, we had biotic debate, not chaotic. You should know this by now :) Also, convergence to a steady state is rarely a good idea! Constant interaction, feedbacks and generation of novel things (aka bios) is far more appealing.
So much from me. Lakinekaki 00:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I have been wondering why nonlinear dynamics is linked to this page? As was stated previously chaos is a specific behavior exhibited by nonlinear dynamical systems, and not all encompassing. I was wondering what everyone thought about giving nonlinear dynamics its own page. The page would include what constitutes a nonlinear system, some common behaviors of such system (of which chaos is one, bifurcations, limit cycles, ect..), what these systems model(ie..predotor prey models, nonlinear vibrations, ect..), solution methods(both graphical and analytical), and some links to ongoing research being conducted in the field. I am new to wikipedia, but I think I can contribute a good article. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. And please answer my original question if anyone can. Why is nonlinear dynamics directed to chaos? Mechj 05:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
| This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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