Holla Back

[Aryeh Sova]

Quick, scattered, very hastily researched half thoughts:

In selichos, we have the tefillah of מי שענה, which lists 20 incidents in history.  One of them is Pinchas: 

מי שענה לפינחס בקומו מתוך העדה

• Are all of these examples of מי שענה parallel?  Are all of these historical examples where someone cried out to HaShem and he responded and that is the model and inspiration we are using in selichos?  If true, it seems to be a machlokes between a gemara in Berachos (6b) and gemara in Sanhedrin (44a) whether the pasuk in Tehillim (106:30) וַיַּעֲמֹד פִּינְחָס, וַיְפַלֵּל;    וַתֵּעָצַר, הַמַּגֵּפָה means Pinchas davened to HaShem or that Pinchas forcefully argued and made claims against HaShem.  So, what was HaShem answering according to the gemara in Sanhedrin?

• Even if it does mean answering a tefilos, it is hard to identify the tefilos offered in each example.  Looking at the first two, what were Avraham and Yitzchak davening for at the akeidah- for it not to go through?  This certainly adds a very different color to the story than classically understood.  
• (Google has gifted me this: ובענין מה שאנו אומרים מי שענה לאברהם אבינו בהר המוריה, מבואר במהרש”א במסכת תענית שם שאין הכוונה שהקדוש ברוך ענה לאברהם אבינו בזה שיצחק לא נשחט, שהרי כל שאיפתו של אברהם היה שיצחק ישחט, ולכן הוא מסביר שהכוונה היא שהקדוש ברוך הוא זימן לו את האיל ששחט בתמורת יצחק, אמנם עיין בתוספות יום טוב במשניות שם שהביא בשם הירושלמי שמבואר שם שאברהם אבינו כן התפלל שיצחק לא ישחט, ועל זה הקדוש ברוך הוא ענה לו, ולפ”ז אפשר אולי לומר שכמו שאברהם אבינו התפלל על כך, כמו כן יצחק אבינו התפלל על כך. וכן הביא הגרחיים קניבסקי בשם מדרש ויושע ששניהם בכו שינצל. [ספר ענינו של יום חלק מועדים עמוד כ] )

• Does answering not refer to a response to a tefillah but a response to a dire situation, a salvation?  (This would only somewhat explain the story of Pinchas as referring to the cessation of the plague.  However, why is this referred to answering Pinchas?  This was a salvation of BY triggered by Pinchas not a salvation of Pinchas per se. Also, if this was a response to Pinchas, does it mean that this was the purpose of his action and not the simple meaning of kanaaim pogim bo?) This seems like a very different message in the middle of the selichos, reducing the impact of tefillah but inspiring a new hope for yeshuah. 
• Perhaps it must mean a physical yehsuah specifically, which is why no mention of Chanukah, and a full physical yeshuah of the individual and not the klall which is why someone like Shimshon may not have been mentioned.

• Maybe doing an inspired maaseh of avodas HaShem is a form of tefilah which HaShem responds to?

[Aryeh Sova]

Perhaps there was an element of personal yeshua as well. From R Yehuda Myers of the YU Kollel in Chicago:

Rav Kasher in Torah Shleimah quotes a medrash from Shemos rabbah that the shevet of Shimon wanted to kill pinchas after he killed zimri so pinchas davened and the mageifa stopped showing that pinchas was righteous in what he did 

However, clearly there was not a personal yeshua in each of these cases, however, like by Avraham and Moshe.

Aryeh Sova

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[Ezra Goldschmiedt]

On the topic of Avraham and the Akedah, Rav Amital assumes that Avraham prayed for Yitzchak to be spared. He has an interesting essay on this in "When God is Near" (page 141). Some select quotes:

Immediately we ask: Was it really Abraham’sprayer that brought about God’s intervention in the Akedah? Surely from the beginning God’s intention was merely to test him, and there was never the slightest possibility that Abraham would sacrifice his son?
From the Mishna (Ta'anit 2:4) we see that our Sages knew that the halting of the Akedah represented not only the realization of the divine will, but also a response to Abraham’s human cry. Even had the divine plan not been to prevent the slaying, Isaac would have been saved by virtue of Abraham’s prayer... Clearly, Hazal based themselves on a tradition that Abraham prayed, that he instituted a “prayer service” at that moment which has endured for generations...
Despite God’s commandment to sacrifice his son, Abraham did not accept its finality; he prayed for his son. [There is] a dual response to God’s command. On the one hand, he was a loyal servant, eager to fulfill his Creator’s word; on the other hand, he was a loving and compassionate father who could not control his feelings, and prayed for his son, pleading for his life to be spared.
We are familiar with the phenomenon of the suppression of any human or parental feelings while in the throes of religious ecstasy. In biblical times this found expression in the worship of Moloch, and in our times we see the same attitude in the response of our neighbors to the death of a “shahid.” Had Abraham’s test lacked this human dimension, the Akedah would not only lose its grandeur, but perhaps the whole episode would have been illegitimate and invalid.

- Ezra

[mordy]

Perhaps it is referring to the inherent danger (or at least the cessation of rational thought needed) in the killing of Zimri

See the Akeidah

ופנחס עמד ויפלל, במדרש שעשה פלילות עם קונו, רוצה לומר שיצא משטת מה שמחויב לעשותו ועשה נפלאות ממנו, ולא שמע לטענות השכליות שמעשה זה קרוב להפסד מלשכר, שגם לפי הדין מסתכן מאד, שאם פירש הבועל והרגו חייב מיתה, ואם הרג בועל לקנאי פטור שהוא רודף, מלבד הסכנה מקרובי הבועל, ולכן נותן הדין לבית דין של מעלה, ולכן לא ציוה משה הדבר לאיש, וגם לא עשה בעצמו

*בדרך צחות one can look to the Zohar that states 

כיון שראה בלעם את פנחס פרח באויר

Perhaps when the Baal HaSlichos says מי שענה לפינחס בקומו מתוך העדה he is referring to Pinchas taking off and flying above the people. 

Maybe the prayer was Tefilas haDerech(?)

I'll be here all week

[Aryeh Sova]

In light of your point about cessation of rational point:

 It is interesting to link Pichas' heroic act of kaanyis with the account of  the Gemara in Sanhedrin that Pinchas was challenging Gd asking how could 24,000 people be killed on account of just one person Zimri (see Maharsha Sanhedrin 44b).  While having theological issues, he still acted completely faithfully and with a sense of zealousness.  This could be compared with the opinions that Avraham and Yitzchak were davening until the last moment that HaShem spare Yitzchak.

Aryeh

| Aryeh Sova | 917.482.5696 |

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[Aryeh Sova]

What were Avraham and Yitzchak davening for and/or what was HaShem answering?

• Keren Orah  At the time of the akeidah, HaShem was responding to His own promise to Avraham about having multitudes of descendants 
• Maharsha (Taanis 15a) reads Avraham telling Yitzchak אלוקים יִרְאֶה-לּוֹ הַשֶּׂה לְעֹלָה, בְּנִי as a bakasha which HaShem responded to with the ayil
• Shlah explains that while they were both overjoyed about the mitzvah, they also cried heavily shedding many tears that Yitzchak should be spared.  Avraham was confused and conflicted about whether this command was a nisayon from HKBH (this elicited joy) or a trick from Satan (crying)
• Medrash Bereishis Rabosi 22:14 they davened together and Yitzchak requested that his ashes serve as a remembrance on behalf of BY whenever trouble befalls them

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[mordy]

In my haste to make the tefilas haderech joke I misquoted the Zohar. It was צליה from Shevet Dan who headed the Israelite Air Force
כיון שראה בלעם את פנחס פרח באויר וב' בניו עמו יונוס ויומברוס, ואם תאמר הרי מתו במעשה העגל, כי הם עשו את העגל, אלא כך היה ודאי, וזה שאמר ויפול מן העם ביום ההוא כשלשת אלפי איש, וכי לא ידוע חשבון קטן הזה, והרי כמה חשבונות אחרים רמים ועליונים וגדולים ידע הכתוב למנות, וכאן כתב כשלושת אלפי איש, אלא הם בניו של בלעם יונוס ויומברוס, שהם שקולים כשלשת אלפי איש.

אלא רשע ההוא ידע כל הכשפים שבעולם, ולקח אף כשפיו של בניו שהיו רגילים בהם, ובהם פרח ונסתלק. פנחס ראהו, שהיה אדם אחד פרח באויר והוא מסתלק מן ראית העין באויר, הרים קולו לבני צבאותיו ואמר, יש מי היודע לפרוח אחריו של אותו רשע, כי בלעם הוא, ראו אותו שהיה פורח.

צליה בנו של שבט דן, קם ולקח השליטה השולטת על כשפים ופרח אחריו, כיון שראה אותו רשע ההוא עשה דרך אחר באויר, ובקע ה' אוירים בדרך ההוא ועלה ונעלם מהעין, אז נסתכן צליה בשעה ההיא והיה בצער שלא ידע מה שיעשה.

פנחס הרים קולו אליו ואמר, הצל של התנינים הרובצים על כל הנחשים הפוך בשערותיך, מיד ידע צליה וגילה אורח ההוא ונכנס אליו, מיד נגלה בלעם וירדו שניהם לפני פנחס. (בלק קעד, ועיין שם עוד)