Re: Have Credit Card - Want to upgrade IntelliJ Ultimate

[edward.beckettx]

"Java can be so damned frustrating to interpret"..

Javas not going to be the Elephant in the room here... its making the plugin compatible between 9,10,11.. CF is always running behind the current Java API so you're essentially going to have to code against a legacy Java implementation at all times... CF "freezes" its Java version support until an official release... there aren't rolling releases to CF. In most open sourced Java projects there exists RELEASE, Snapshots... Therein lies the rub...

Coding an open source plugin for a closed source language... 

Edward

-------- Original message --------

From: Doug Hughes

Date:11/07/2014 9:47 AM (GMT-05:00)

To: cfml-plugin-fo...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Have Credit Card - Want to upgrade IntelliJ Ultimate

Ryan,

How much would you need to make it worth your time? Ballpark estimate of course.

I'm not sure. I haven't really thought about it. Is "as much as possible" an option? The truth is this isn't a project I'm thrilled by the prospect of. A while back I cloned IntelliJ and the CFML plugin and found that it wouldn't even compile. This was due to IntelliJ API changes between major versions. JetBrains fixed this before release, obviously. But that left a bad taste in my mouth.

But, by looking at the source, I call tell that maintaining this won't be as simple as maintaining some sort of syntax definition file. It would take time to analyze how it actually works and determine how to implement new syntax features. In particular, figuring out how to segment language features across versions (CF 9,10,11, Railo, etc)

Would you open source it? 

It's already open source. I couldn't very well make my changes closed source, could I? Either way, yes.

Do you think you know how to do it well enough to lead an open source effort to develop it?

More or less, yes. I'm good at jumping into stuff like this and making it work. But, truthfully, Java can be so damned frustrating to interpret, especially in complex apps like IntelliJ. Maybe I can't do it. That's a possibility, but I'm pretty confident I can.

When it comes down to it, my opinion is that the CFML support is generally good enough. Even if there are tags and functions that it doesn't recognize, it doesn't cause the plugin to fail to work. The quirks aren't bad enough for me to switch away from it.

So, perhaps before we go any further down this road, the first question should be: Can we even get the plugin to build as-is? If so, then the next question is: Can we make any sense of the code?

If the answers to these two questions are yes, then we can explore next steps. 

Doug Hughes

do...@doughughes.net

651-252-4234

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Ryan Guill <ryan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Doug,

How much would you need to make it worth your time? Ballpark estimate of course. Would you open source it? Do you think you know how to do it well enough to lead an open source effort to develop it?

I love my intellij, I make it work for cfml even though it is far from ideal, but I would love to make it better.  I think a solid foundation of syntax parsing, code coloring and intellisense for built in functions and tags would be a great start, we can always add more bells and whistles later on.  I've thought about looking into other plugins (I know the dart plugin was given before as a good example) and trying to do it myself - but I would love if someone who knew how to structure the plugin properly could come along and I could just help color inside the lines.

I would certainly be willing to pitch in money towards development.  I believe there is probably more people that would than you think if we can reach them.

On Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:41:02 PM UTC-6, CF Freak wrote:
> Re intellij ...
>
>
> Best damned IDE by far... Java, Spring, Grails, Groovy, CF, PHP, JavaScript...
>
>
> IJ and Vim and I'm good to go...
>
>
>
> Edward
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Dave Merrill
> Date:11/06/2014  9:26 PM  (GMT-05:00)
> To: CFML plugin for IntelliJ IDEA
> Subject: Re: Have Credit Card - Want to upgrade IntelliJ Ultimate
>
>
>
> So where's the decimal point go in the cost of updating IDEA's CFML tools to ACF 11 and ideally current Railo too? For me that's the highest priority CFML task. There are other things it'd be great to have, but that's the biggie.
>
> Re CFML market share, I work full time in the usual mix of CFML, JS, SQL, CSS, HTML, and I know others who do too. I use IDEA for all of it, and love it, out of date and slightly buggy though its CFML may be. Great IDE, miles ahead of the alternatives IMO, even for CFML.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Doug Hughes <do...@doughughes.net> wrote:
>
>
> That was kinda my feeling too. 
>
>
>
>
> Doug Hughes
> do...@doughughes.net
> 651-252-4234
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:28 PM, edward.beckettx <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't think anyone would fund it... CF is losing market share quite rapidly ....
>
>
>
> Edward
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Doug Hughes
> Date:11/06/2014  12:21 PM  (GMT-05:00)
> To: cfml-plugin-fo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Have Credit Card - Want to upgrade IntelliJ Ultimate
>
>
> .... just throwing it out there: I'm pretty sure I could do the work, I just don't want to do it for free. 
>
>
> Let's say I (very hypothetically) used indiegogo or something similar to crowd fund this. Does anyone really think anyone would donate any reasonable funds towards this?
>
>
>
>
>
> Doug Hughes
> do...@doughughes.net
> 651-252-4234
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Kirill Safonov <kirill....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>  
> I doubt if JetBrains is really tracking this forum. Seems like it’s only me to be approving new members and messages last years despite I left the company more than a year ago and just do it because I’m probably the only administrator that looks at the messages coming :)
> ColdFusion user base is relatively small so no resources are allocated to develop the plugin and I don’t think this will change soon as the technology is not getting more popular (please correct me if I’m wrong).
>  
> The only way I can think if community would find the money to pay a developer to improve the plugin. Not sure who could be that developer though... I’m sure JB will not as they will quite reasonably assign an experienced person to the other, more “popular” topic (such as e.g. web technologies). The company is budgeted well enough so they will not be interested in any external payments.
>  
> > As far as I understand it, IntelliJ does not have ColdFusion expertise.
> true
>  
> Best,
>   Kirill
>  
> From: cfml-plugin-fo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfml-plugin-fo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Merrill
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 6:36 PM
> To: CFML plugin for IntelliJ IDEA
> Subject: Re: Have Credit Card - Want to upgrade IntelliJ Ultimate
>
>
>  
>
> Great initiative and plan Dan, hope progress can be made.
>
> +1,000,000
>
>  
>

> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Dan Wilson <sipa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been using IntelliJ Ultimate Edition for a number of years, primarily to work on ColdFusion and HTML/CSS/JS related projects.
>
> As you know, the ColdFusion plugin has fallen behind in development. I'd really like to see this upgraded. I'm ready to subscribe and pay for IntelliJ Ultimate, but I'd want the plugin modernized before it would be worth the money.
>
> As far as I understand it, IntelliJ does not have ColdFusion expertise. The ColdFusion community does not have enough IntelliJ plugin developer expertise to make much headway.
>
> Is there something that can be done to coordinate updates to the plugin? The community would be willing to update definition files and other attributes that require ColdFusion knowledge. IntelliJ would be responsible for fixing raised bugs and merging in the new definitions.
>
> I'd be willing to help organize the materials, should IntelliJ be able to direct a programmer to assist with the Plugin updates.
>
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[Doug Hughes]

Ed,

I'm not worried about the version of Java used by CF. We'd only really need to worry about the language syntax and related features, not the JRE it's running on.

Doug Hughes

do...@doughughes.net

651-252-4234