recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

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Barry Beattie

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:27:56 AM4/7/08
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- came across another recruter today (deliberatly not saying who) who
straight-up said that CF was on the way out.

and yet they (recruters) are looking for CF'ers and can't easily fill
the positions they've got on their books, converting PHP'ers to fill
positions, and in one case, getting apps made (for their recruting
business) in CFML.

sigh...

M@ Bourke

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Apr 7, 2008, 9:03:41 AM4/7/08
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and your response to this person was??

Barry Beattie

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Apr 7, 2008, 9:15:16 AM4/7/08
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to be honest Matt, playing it very gently, not wanting to bite the
hand that may feed me...


but then again, what _could_ I say that the obvious couldn't say better?

M@ Bourke

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Apr 7, 2008, 9:17:32 AM4/7/08
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So... how about those rainbow suspenders, Pretty cool way to keep your pants up, eh?

Andrew Scott

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Apr 7, 2008, 9:58:58 AM4/7/08
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yeah very good at keeping them that way too.

--

Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613 8676 4223
Mobile: 0404 998 273

KC Kuok

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Apr 7, 2008, 7:25:05 PM4/7/08
to cfaussie
Hi Barry,

I think the general feeling is that CF in Australia is on the way out.
But for us that keep up to that on the global front know that it will
be here to stay. Unfortunately for us it seems CF is not being used as
extensively as it should Down Under. The shortage is due to a few
factors, most important of which is 1) there are not enough good CF-
ers to go around, lets be honest you can get away with spaghetti code
in CF, which is a double sided blade. 2) There are not enough
companies willing to take on new coders without any prior CF
experience and 'train' them... 3) Which leads back to business
decisions being made that it is easier (and cheaper salary-wise/
contract-wise) to carry out a project in PHP, as you have a big pool
of novice-intermediate PHP coders compared to CF coders.

I think for Australia at least, if Adobe 1) Does not enforce lower
pricing for CF hosting by their hosting partners 2) push CF to Unis 3)
review pricing strategies to gain critical mass, In the long run no
matter how great the forthcoming versions of CF is going to be, only
big MNCs will use it, and unfortunately their coding teams are usually
not based in Australia, hence CF will probably keep becoming sidelined
in Australia while others continue to grow.

Just my 2 cents :)

Joel Cass

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Apr 7, 2008, 7:38:57 PM4/7/08
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I agree with most of that but on the topic of recruiters - they are just
sales people and I wouldn't take them seriously. They have a position to
sell to the client, not just you.

Say they were selling fridges. You can get the super duper models with
the ice machines and built in tv's and then you have your everyday
run-of-the-mill fridges. You come in wanting a super duper fridge but
all they have is run-of-the-mill fridges - they still want their
commission so they will try and sell you an everyday fridge.

Now replace everyday fridge with PHP and super duper fridge with
ColdFusion, and that explains why they are taking the "CF is on it's way
out" pitch.

But let's not go into this *monthly* debate again. Nobody knows if it's
on the way out. As long as people keep coding and doing good work (e.g.
maintainable projects) than it will be here to stay, whether Adobe
shelve the technology or not.

My two cents

Joel Cass

Detect

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Apr 7, 2008, 7:53:48 PM4/7/08
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Isn't CF in a constant state of being "on the way out"?

Michael Dinowitz

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Apr 7, 2008, 7:55:33 PM4/7/08
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For almost 13 years

Andrew Scott

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:02:41 PM4/7/08
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Joel,

To some degree you are right about them being sales people, but at the end
of the day it's the product that they are selling and that comes from the
client and what requirements they are looking for.

We struggled to get decent J2EE developers, and even though there is an
abundance of Java developers out there. We told our recruiters specifically
what we wanted.


Andrew Scott


Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au

Phone: +613  9015 8628
Mobile: 0404 998 273

Detect

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:08:24 PM4/7/08
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C'mon guys,

If CF was popular there would be no excuse to give to my employer to
send me to MAX or CFUnited.

Let's keep the myth going.

Andrew Scott

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:11:05 PM4/7/08
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Agreed,

I had this debate with Sean Corfield awhile ago when I got back into
developing Coldfusion, after a 2 year break. And the first thing that I had
noticed along the way was that even though as pointed out, Coldfusion can be
gotten up and running very quickly.

There is not enough who actually are software engineers, meaning that it
places a bigger hole in the market.

It is a catch 22 for most of the people who do pick up Coldfusion and find
how easy it is, and find that they are better off along the php, or .Net
route.

I sometimes sit back and watch a project go through its DLC here, under java
and find that even though it gets delivered on time and budget. The amount
of work sometimes done for the project, and think how quickly it could have
been done in Coldfusion.

But that is the reality, I doubt we will ever look for a Coldfusion
developer to come on board. Because of the fact we are Java primarily, with
a few clients still being maintained in CF. Only because we have gone
enterprise, and the tools we use can't be fitted into Coldfusion in its
current shape.

Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613  9015 8628
Mobile: 0404 998 273


-----Original Message-----
From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of KC Kuok
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 9:25 AM
To: cfaussie
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

Andrew Scott

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:13:56 PM4/7/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
It isn't a myth, it has been this way for almost 12 years that I have been
developing Coldfusion for.

But the reality is that it will never go away, it has its place and that is
what keeps most of us happy.

Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613  9015 8628
Mobile: 0404 998 273


-----Original Message-----
From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Detect
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 10:08 AM
To: cfaussie
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

barry.b

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:39:41 PM4/7/08
to cfaussie
> For almost 13 years

Here! here! Michael. exactly the case. Tales of the demise seem
grossly exagerated...

I've got a few different skills under my belt, but I have absolutely
no embarrisment that CF is featured amongst them**

in fact, thanks to things like AIR and Flex, with support of the LCDS
products, Adobe are finally starting to get a solid technology
"stack" (top to bottom) happening. And CF riding on the coat-tails.

(I overheard a PHP'er complaining that all the Flex examples were only
written for CF - they obviously didn't look hard enough but also
didn't like the shoe being on the other foot...)

I can appreciate people moving larger apps to Java and whatnot but
geez I feel much safer with CF skills than, say, Progress or Delphi
or ...

maybe I should have taken M@'s suggestion and pointed out the irony of
the situation...?


"I think the general feeling is that CF in Australia is on the way
out.
But for us that keep up to that on the global front know that it will
be here to stay."

I'm suggesting it's only a "feeling", not being realised by the actual
situation.

but I do (first hand) see some shifts in the teaching of I.T generally
and Digital Media specifically. Enrollments in Australia are falling
and yet they're expanding (bigtime) in Europe (and the US if FullSail
is any guide).

meh, I'm not worried. the world is full of Chicken Little's...

b


** obviously not needing a spell checker isn't one of them...




On Apr 8, 9:55 am, "Michael Dinowitz" <mdino...@houseoffusion.com>
wrote:
> For almost 13 years
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Detect <det...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Isn't CF in a constant state of being "on the way out"?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

AJ Mercer

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Apr 7, 2008, 8:51:59 PM4/7/08
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Have a listen to the podcast on
    http://coldfusionweekly.com/

    -> Vince Bonfanti - Open Source BlueDragon
    -> coming soon Gert Franz from Railo Technologies

They have a few things to say about promoting CFML to the web community at large.
--

AJ Mercer
Web Log: http://webonix.net

Dale Fraser

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Apr 7, 2008, 11:19:34 PM4/7/08
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I recently advertised a junior tester role.

 

129 applications, this is junior people with no real experience perhaps 1 year a uni degree.

 

I didn't see ColdFusion listed as skill on a single one.

 

Of all the people we have interviewed, we asked them about ColdFusion and they all said they have heard of it but never used it.

 

One guy even said, hasn't that been replaced by .NET

 

ColdFusion isn't going anywhere soon, but it has some serious issues with visibility and promotion. And after all these years, I have come to the conclusion that Adobe will never address these issues in a significant enough way to make a difference.

 

Will be interesting to see if the Open Source BlueDragon makes a difference.

 

Regards

Dale Fraser

http://learncf.com

 

From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of AJ Mercer
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 10:52 AM
To: cfau...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

 

Have a listen to the podcast on

Patrick McGLYNN

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Apr 8, 2008, 2:29:45 AM4/8/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
Andrew,

I not sure if anyone here has tried it yet but where you say:

 "But that is the reality, I doubt we will ever look for a Coldfusion
developer to come on board. Because of the fact we are Java primarily, with
a few clients still being maintained in CF. Only because we have gone
enterprise, and the tools we use can't be fitted into Coldfusion in its
current shape."

I say what about BPEL (Business Process Execution Language)?

It is designed just for this purpose, that is plugging in external services, sometimes legacy.


One of the points at the bottom of the page "Portability - The ability to take design-time artifacts created in one vendor's environment and use them in another vendor's environment."

I think that coldfusion is getting ready for a take of with agile development in mind, although people do need to be trained with the knowledge of the tool at Universities.
But keeping in mind coldfusion is just an abstraction of Java which is taught.

Cheers Patrick McGLYNN

Andrew Scott

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Apr 8, 2008, 3:07:49 AM4/8/08
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Patrick,

 

It still will not happen.....

 

 

Andrew Scott
Senior Coldfusion Developer
Aegeon Pty. Ltd.
www.aegeon.com.au
Phone: +613  9015 8628
Mobile: 0404 998 273

 

 

 

From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick McGLYNN
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 4:30 PM
To: cfau...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

 

Andrew,

MrBuzzy

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Apr 8, 2008, 4:14:50 AM4/8/08
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Maybe it's the recruiters that are 'on the way out' of the CF world ;)
 
I mean, with such a good (but small) community here and OS maybe recruiters don't add as much value as they do for the Java or .Net market. Plus, does a recruiter really know how to recognise a good CF developer? I'm not sure.

Scott Barnes

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Apr 8, 2008, 5:06:01 AM4/8/08
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I'll be upfront and honest and you can take this however you want to.. but.. I've in the past been seeing a healthy amount of requests on folks wanting:
 
- How do I migrate from CF to ASP.NET
- How do I retrain CF folks to ASP.NET
- Barnesy, hook me up with some .NET jobs..
 
(thus my butt kicking a while back for daring to ask whom wanted help with this?)
 
These are from customers / friends in the CF biz, does this mean CF Is doomed? no (doubtful).. but its what I'm seeing...I think the skill shortage in Australia is what's driving this perception, my advice is to get back out there, hit the pavements and start stimulating the CF Community again. I state this as I think a large bulk of folks have moved onto Flex development or migrated to another language (Java, .NET, Ruby and PHP are big in Australia).
 
 
-
Scott.

M@ Bourke

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Apr 8, 2008, 6:03:14 AM4/8/08
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Just in case anyone is new to the list, Scott is a .net product evangelist at Microsoft.

of cos he is most likely unbiased and posted his last comment via an iPhone :P

CyberAngel

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Apr 8, 2008, 6:56:05 AM4/8/08
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Actually he is now a product manager for Silverlight…..

 

No more evangelism for Scott J

 

 

 

From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 8:03 PM
To: cfau...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

 

Just in case anyone is new to the list, Scott is a .net product evangelist at Microsoft.

M@ Bourke

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Apr 8, 2008, 7:04:46 AM4/8/08
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Sorry yeah forgot, he now owns the whole .Net platform :)
and will soon become head of the new small department they'll have within the Microsoft basement, new little department will be called Yahoo!!, just to be cool MS will give Yahoo! 2 "!'s" so its Yahoo!!

CyberAngel

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Apr 8, 2008, 7:06:36 AM4/8/08
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*LOL*

 

 

From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M@ Bourke
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 9:05 PM
To: cfau...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?

 

Sorry yeah forgot, he now owns the whole .Net platform :)

Barry Beattie

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Apr 8, 2008, 9:10:09 AM4/8/08
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it's probably worth remembering that Barnes has cut CF code a lot
longer than he's been wearing an MS-logo'd jacket.


so when he says

"...I think the skill shortage in Australia is what's driving this
perception, my advice is to get back out there, hit the pavements and
start stimulating the CF Community again."

there's a fair bit of thought behind it.

you can't beat "vibe" for creating groundswells and getting a scene
happening. Whether it's "Kevin07" (or "It's Time" back in 1972) or the
Pepsi taste challenge or the promo for the Blair Witch Project, if you
haven't a vibe you just don't exist these days.

that thread I threw up this afternoon about "cfqueryparam 101"? - it
was an Ad (a very subtle one) advertising one of the many things that
the local user group can do to help people become better at their
craft, keep their skills up, have longeviy in the industry, etc.

Advertising the local CFUG for tonight (not expecting one extra person
to show, but at least it gets the name out there). Also pointing out
that there's CFUG's all around the region. From Andrew Mercer in Perth
to David Harris in NZ and people like Steve Onnis, Mark Mandel, Chris
Velevitch, Kai Koenig, Darren Tracey - Dale, you're in there helping
too.

you can stumble across all sorts of interesting things at CFUG's -
tonight for example it was about CF, LCDS and data management,
presented by a guy in the U.S who was up at 5:00am to present.
http://quetwo.wordpress.com/2008/04/07/speaking-at-the-queensland-cfug-tomorrow/

not your cup of tea? well, what is? and what are you going to do about it?

People who don't contribute to the CF community shouldn't be too quick
to bitch and moan about the lack of CF profile.

two ways to help:

- actively drive the agenda of your local CFUG: don't just be a
passenger, but help set the direction to what you think would make it
better - and then help make it happen.

- contribute to open-source apps/code. Ray Camden's blogCFC is almost
ubiquitous but it's still not the "foot in the door" that PHPNuke
created for PHP (or many of the other PHP-based apps). FarCry's there
waiting to be used, etc.

Dale Fraser

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Apr 8, 2008, 9:28:50 AM4/8/08
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I use a site still called

www.experts-exchange.com

It is a big forum with different areas you can ask questions and help others
and you earn points.

Earn enough points you get a ranking and they send you a T-Shirt.

Now I'm top 10 all time in all CF categories, that is a result of how long I
have been on it and I occasionally answer questions, but I'm not hard core.

What is interesting, is that the people who are hard core in the CF areas
people with 500k or 1m points have vanished over the past couple of years.
Now they haven't stopped using the site, they have just gone into different
areas, you can click them to see where they are posting / answering
questions now.

So I don't work for Microsoft, and this is just me relaying the stats of
that site, but I can tell you that a lot of them have gone to .NET

For example (not sure if you can see this without a login)
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Software/Server_Software/Web_Servers/ColdFus
ion/

The ColdFusion area, all time ranking mrichmon (1,346,158 points)

Is now mainly posting in C# and ASP.NET areas. This trend is repeated for a
lot of ex major ColdFusion people on this site. So there is defiantly merit
in what Scott has said, I have seen it here and other places.

With that said, while I think there is a trend of CF people moving to .NET.
It's not something I would consider unless I thought that Adobe were going
to drop ColdFusion, as .NET compared to ColdFusion is just hard work. Even
Scott might agree with that.

ColdFusion is a good product with a bad rep and historically bad marketing.

Regards
Dale Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Barry Beattie
Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2008 11:10 PM
To: cfau...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

Michael Dinowitz

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Apr 8, 2008, 9:51:07 AM4/8/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
<totally self serving suggestion>
You know, having a full set of Fusion Authority Quarterly Update on your shelf for people to see might have a positive effect. :)
</totally self serving suggestion>

We've been thinking about trying to set up a fulfillment center in Australia to ship the books out to people locally rather than send them from the US. Alternatively, we could give the CFUGs a discount for a mass order for their members. One thing we've always said is that books on a shelf and/or in a store can do more for a language than many arguments.

Gary Barber

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Apr 9, 2008, 12:53:19 AM4/9/08
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<delurk>

Problem with all these suggestions are they are preaching to the
choir. Coldfusion needs to be seen to be a viable product OUTSIDE of
the Coldfusion community.

</delurk>

--
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com

barry.b

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Apr 9, 2008, 2:40:29 AM4/9/08
to cfaussie

OK Gary - I'll bite: how?

everyone else shoosh (at least for a sec - please?) - I want to hear a
fresh perspective, considering a bunch of us has thrashed this point
many times...
> > than many arguments.- Hide quoted text -

Gary Barber

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Apr 9, 2008, 5:25:06 AM4/9/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
<summary of blog post>

Would I recommend Coldfusion to someone new in the industry, well
frankly no. Realistically it has no future (puts on flame proof suit).
So what can you do about it.

DON"T be complacent.

Consider this besides WebDU and your CFUG. How many presentations have
people done on Cold fusion. How many kill sites where highlighted as
Coldfusion sites.

I've not heard of any, so if I'm wrong tell me. But people you need to
get outside of the user groups back into the rest of the web industry.
If you really love this product and it's more than a day job get out
there promote it to others. The rest of the web community hears about
RoR, PHP and .Net all the time.. Coldfusion... - "oh thats that dead
language".

It's a PR problem.

Okay you say "but I have all the work I need, why should I bother at
all". Well you can sit around with all your work, but in a few years
the work level will start to drop and at that stage it will be terminal,
Coldfusion will be dead. The reason you have lots of work, simple
others have left, and you are picking up their slack.

Adobe are not going to help you. Australia is a small market, if the
Coldfusion numbers dropped in Australia but remained the same in the
US. I don't think Adobe HQ would really be that concerned. Lets be
very realistic here. Adobe doesn't make a lot of money out of Coldfusion
in Australia, it makes more out of CS3 etc.

Adobe guys, lets be real here, you don't have the budget. So if Adobe
isn't going to help, what can you do.

Encourage the installation of the CF opensource alternatives. Okay they
are not 100% cf8, but it is a good stable platform for cfml development
that is very low in cost. Stop being purists. CF has to Open source in
Australia to help it survive.

Also is you get industry to push the CF opensource alternatives, and
educational institutions will follow suit and train graduates in CF.
Adobe (US) may even wake up at some point.

So what can you do now. We email, phone, IM a web professional group
that is not your CFUG and go organise to do a presentation of your
latest CF project.

I would love to see this happen, but a little part of me doesn't think
you guys can do it. Prove me wrong.

--
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com

CyberAngel

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Apr 9, 2008, 7:46:58 AM4/9/08
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Hmmmm...

I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations on
Coldfusion related products.

As for recommending I would think it will depend on the situation and the
project.

As for Killer sites, yeah well I agree...

But I will say what Scott Barnes said, even though it is easier said than
done. But he is right.

Regards
Andrew Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: cfau...@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfau...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Gary Barber
Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2008 7:25 PM
To: cfau...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say "CF on the way out"? ... FFS! not FUD
from them too?

Gary Barber

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Apr 9, 2008, 9:39:30 AM4/9/08
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Okay I'm not privy to where Geoff and Mark are doing these
presentations. Is it to Coldfusion people. If so it's a waste of time.

I've not hear of them and I do keep my ear to the ground so to speak in
relation to Coldfusion news outside of the Cf community.

Besides on or two vocal advocates I have heard nothing!

Do nothing and it won't effect me. But it will effect you guys. Sorry
to be all serious here.

--
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com

Barry Beattie

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Apr 9, 2008, 10:01:18 AM4/9/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
well, Geoff Bowers is doing smart evangelising (IMHO) with FarCry.

the leverage there is to get people interested in the FarCry
application framework - and the CMS as a killer app to get the
framework in the door.

just because it uses CF is not really the focus - building powerful
applications is.

this is pretty much the same model that saw a large spreading of PHP -
it wan't the "personal home page" concept - it was the "runtime" that
made PHPNuke or Wordpress run on people's machines.

thing edge of the wedge stuff

I'm seeing exactly the same thing with Sharepoint and MOSS (Microsoft
Office SharePoint Server) - sure they're products, but if you want to
add/modify it, you'll be doing so in .NET.

we need more killer apps.

Robin Hilliard

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Apr 9, 2008, 4:30:16 PM4/9/08
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Funny... I'm interviewing a promising CF candidate this afternoon in Sydney and flying to Melbourne tomorrow to interview two more.  I'm working with experienced recruiters and they didn't seem to have too much trouble finding at least a few CF developers at short notice.

It's probably a case of sour grapes from the recruiters - they must have dreams where you say "What! Replaced by .NET?  Oh, well then let's hire every .NET developer you have at outrageous rates, and I'll give you a huge tip for your deep, albeit untutored sagely insight into the future of web technologies".

Actually I've found a leaked script from a recruiting agency that shall remain nameless, and I quote from pages 159-162:

IF THE CLIENT SAYS:
C:
...
C++:
...
COBOL:
...
ColdFusion:
OH! Wasn't that replaced by (d20):
1) .NET
2) Java
3) .NET Again
4) JSP
5) ASP
6) PHP
7) .NYET (Russian Developer Edition)
8) WebObjects
9) Ruby on Rails
10) Vista
11) Perl CGI scripts
12) Amazon Mechanical Turk and Russian HTML designers
13) Office 2008
14) Silverlight, Barnes Memorial Edition
15) Dreamweaver
16) .NET XXL Crinkle Free
17) MS-Linux
18) Frogger
19) The Windows Start Menu
20) .NET and the Kangaroo

CORBA:
...
Delphi:
...

Cheers,
Robin


     
  ROBIN HILLIARD
Chief Executive Officer
ro...@rocketboots.com.au

RocketBoots Pty Ltd
Level 11
189 Kent Street
Sydney NSW 2001
Australia
Phone +61 2 9323 2507
Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501
Mobile +61 418 414 341
www.rocketboots.com.au
 
   

Mark Mandel

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Apr 9, 2008, 6:56:11 PM4/9/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
Garry -

I'd love to go out to other UG's or such and do some sort of talk
(albeit I don't know how interested they would be in Transfer, as that
is my main talking point).

Did you have any in mind?

Mark

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Gary Barber <gary.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

--
E: mark....@gmail.com
W: www.compoundtheory.com

Gary Barber

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Apr 9, 2008, 10:57:29 PM4/9/08
to cfau...@googlegroups.com
Mark

If you haven't already I would be looking at the barcamps, web standards
groups etc or any events that bring the groups together.

CF needs more people like you and Geoff in Australia

Hat tip to Geoff for putting Farcry out there, which still needs to be
promoted.

--
Gary Barber
Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com

barry.b

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Apr 9, 2008, 11:30:53 PM4/9/08
to cfaussie
just getting back to Robin Hilliard's point about recruiters having no
problem finding quality candidates for him...

... that may be specific to certain areas (Sydney, Melbourne) or
sections of the market (enterprise, RIA's). Besides, Sydney and
Melbourne are magnets from other areas of the country anyway. I
personally know of 3 CF good people who have moved to Sydney from
Brisbane.

According to a recruiter I spoke to this morning, one client on his
books who is just about to throw the towel in on CF and get his apps
re-written in another language - he can't find the CF developers to
maintain and extend it. Darren Tracey (QLD CFUG manager) sounded alarm
bells about this over a year ago (where the "new blood" was coming
from) - but it's typical free-market forces and there's not a lot that
can be done about it, even from the educational/student (supply) side.


do CF a favour - poach a PHP coder today...

AJ Mercer

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Apr 10, 2008, 12:08:59 AM4/10/08