Bush Ends Schiavo Inquiry

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TALLAHASSEE, Fla., July 7 (AP) - A state attorney has found no
evidence that Terri Schiavo's collapse 15 years ago involved criminal
activity, and Gov. Jeb Bush on Thursday declared an end to Florida's
involvement in the matter.

"Based on your conclusions, I will follow your recommendation that the
inquiry by the state be closed," Mr. Bush said in a two-sentence
letter to the prosecutor, Bernie McCabe of Pinellas and Pasco
Counties.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/national/08schiavo.html

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---
Hopefully this will put an end to things finally. No assault, and no
criminality involved. Perhaps now the True Believers will lay off.

larry

On 7/7/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> TALLAHASSEE, Fla., July 7 (AP) - A state attorney has found no
> evidence that Terri Schiavo's collapse 15 years ago involved criminal
> activity, and Gov. Jeb Bush on Thursday declared an end to Florida's
> involvement in the matter.
>
> "Based on your conclusions, I will follow your recommendation that the
> inquiry by the state be closed," Mr. Bush said in a two-sentence
> letter to the prosecutor, Bernie McCabe of Pinellas and Pasco
> Counties.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/national/08schiavo.html
>
>

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An end to things? But Randall Terry hasn't gone on his book tour yet...

- Jim

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What's really needed is for someone to catch Randall Terry on film, in
bed with a 12 year old.

Either that or really bust the jerk for arson.

larry

On 7/8/05, Jim Campbell <j...@inomi.com> wrote:
> An end to things? But Randall Terry hasn't gone on his book tour yet...
>
> - Jim
>
> Larry C. Lyons wrote:
>
> >Hopefully this will put an end to things finally. No assault, and no
> >criminality involved. Perhaps now the True Believers will lay off.
> >
> >larry
> >
> >On 7/7/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>TALLAHASSEE, Fla., July 7 (AP) - A state attorney has found no
> >>evidence that Terri Schiavo's collapse 15 years ago involved criminal
> >>activity, and Gov. Jeb Bush on Thursday declared an end to Florida's
> >>involvement in the matter.
> >>
> >>"Based on your conclusions, I will follow your recommendation that the
> >>inquiry by the state be closed," Mr. Bush said in a two-sentence
> >>letter to the prosecutor, Bernie McCabe of Pinellas and Pasco
> >>Counties.
> >>
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/national/08schiavo.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

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And the federal gov hasn't had its turn yet (before the state has
another try at it)

On 7/8/05, Jim Campbell <j...@inomi.com> wrote:

> An end to things? But Randall Terry hasn't gone on his book tour yet...
>

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as if that weren't a foregone conclusion...

Dana

On 7/7/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> TALLAHASSEE, Fla., July 7 (AP) - A state attorney has found no
> evidence that Terri Schiavo's collapse 15 years ago involved criminal
> activity, and Gov. Jeb Bush on Thursday declared an end to Florida's
> involvement in the matter.
>
> "Based on your conclusions, I will follow your recommendation that the
> inquiry by the state be closed," Mr. Bush said in a two-sentence
> letter to the prosecutor, Bernie McCabe of Pinellas and Pasco
> Counties.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/national/08schiavo.html
>
>

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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---

> Dana wrote:
> as if that weren't a foregone conclusion...
>

Is the implication there that the SAG is involved in some type of
coverup conspiracy?

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:163730
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SAG isn't in the story. This is Pinellas County investigating Pinellas
County. They are sooooo going to say whoops we were negligent and
caused this woman's incapacitation :) This bit of sarcasm is true
whether there were or weren't. It's definitely one for the "ain't
going to happen" category. Pure eyewash.

As for whether they were... ::shrug:: the wench is dead. The rest of
us have to live with the precedent.

Dana

On 7/8/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dana wrote:
> > as if that weren't a foregone conclusion...
> >
>
> Is the implication there that the SAG is involved in some type of
> coverup conspiracy?
>
>

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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---

> Dana wrote:
> SAG isn't in the story. This is Pinellas County investigating Pinellas
> County.

Which is another way of saying you think this is a coverup. From the
text of the article:

"In the new report, Mr. McCabe said that to open a full homicide
investigation, there must be some fact or evidence indicating that a
criminal act caused the death. He said his review had found none."

So there's 3 possibilities here. Bernie McCabe, being the prosecuter
of Pinellas and Pasco Counties, would have to:

1.) Be covering up "some fact or evidence" he found but not be
bringing forward, or
2.) Have faked the investigation and planned all along to say "nothing
found", or
3.) Have honorably investigated the claim and found it to be meritless.

You're saying Mr. McCabe is either negligent in that he either is
covering up facts or never investigated, right?

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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No. I am saying that the bar for a homicide investigation is pretty
high, it's what, fifteen years later, and any other finding would have
raised questions about politicians probably still in office. Like, if
there is criminal responsibility, why wasn't it pusued at the time?
One possible reason (supposing for a moment that there *was,* which I
know you disagree with, but suppose) was that garden-variety domestic
violence was routinely blown off at the time. But they are not going
to *say* that. Come on.

So saying that the evidence isn't there is not the same as saying the
man didn't hit his wife.

Dana

On 7/8/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dana wrote:
> > SAG isn't in the story. This is Pinellas County investigating Pinellas
> > County.
>
> Which is another way of saying you think this is a coverup. From the
> text of the article:
>
> "In the new report, Mr. McCabe said that to open a full homicide
> investigation, there must be some fact or evidence indicating that a
> criminal act caused the death. He said his review had found none."
>
> So there's 3 possibilities here. Bernie McCabe, being the prosecuter
> of Pinellas and Pasco Counties, would have to:
>
> 1.) Be covering up "some fact or evidence" he found but not be
> bringing forward, or
> 2.) Have faked the investigation and planned all along to say "nothing
> found", or
> 3.) Have honorably investigated the claim and found it to be meritless.
>
> You're saying Mr. McCabe is either negligent in that he either is
> covering up facts or never investigated, right?
>
>

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> Dana wrote:
> One possible reason (supposing for a moment that there *was,* which I
> know you disagree with, but suppose) was that garden-variety domestic
> violence was routinely blown off at the time. But they are not going
> to *say* that. Come on.
>

I'm very open to the possibility that there was domestic violence.
The problem I have is that there's not a single shred of evidence to
indicate there was any and nobody has accused Mr. Schiavo of domestic
violence since.

For example, if Mr. Schiavo was a spouse abuser either then or now,
why isn't there any police reports or eyewitnesses to say so?

If there's no evidence to support such a claim why are we making it?

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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There is evidence. It was presented at one or another of the hearings
(who cares which at this point) and the judge chose to disregard it
because Schiavo is so obviously a nice guy :) Which is par for the
course and really not that surprising.

There almost never is enough evidence because women don't talk about
it, families don't talk about it, and when they do they are not
believed because good old so and so would never do a thing like that.

So it is not exactly earthshaking to hear that the county that felt
there was no evidence of domestic violence now feels that there is no
evidence of homicide, fifteen years after the fact.

By the way, Shiavo's subsequent girlfriend *did* accuse him of
stalking her and threatening her children. She was not believed at the
hearing because she got the hell out of dodge rather than call the
police at the time.

Dana


On 7/8/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dana wrote:
> > One possible reason (supposing for a moment that there *was,* which I
> > know you disagree with, but suppose) was that garden-variety domestic
> > violence was routinely blown off at the time. But they are not going
> > to *say* that. Come on.
> >
>
> I'm very open to the possibility that there was domestic violence.
> The problem I have is that there's not a single shred of evidence to
> indicate there was any and nobody has accused Mr. Schiavo of domestic
> violence since.
>
> For example, if Mr. Schiavo was a spouse abuser either then or now,
> why isn't there any police reports or eyewitnesses to say so?
>
> If there's no evidence to support such a claim why are we making it?
>
>

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> Dana wrote:
> There is evidence.

What was it?

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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please see our previous very lengthy discussion as to whether or not
Schiavo fits the profile of an abusive male. Off the top of my head,
there was the testimony of the subsequent girlfriend and evidence from
some of Terri's friends that he was controlling and jealous ot the
point of checking her odometer, that she was afraid of him, and was
planning on moving out.

Dana

On 7/8/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Dana wrote:
> > There is evidence.
>
> What was it?
>
>

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> Dana wrote:
> there was the testimony of the subsequent girlfriend and evidence from
> some of Terri's friends that he was controlling and jealous ot the
> point of checking her odometer, that she was afraid of him, and was
> planning on moving out.
>

That puts us back to our disagreement I guess. By evidence I mean
multiple lines of inquiry that lead to, at least an educated guess, if
not a reasonable conclusion. Profiles and people's claim of
jealousness aren't abuse.

For me, I'd need to hear:

1.) that neighbors had called the police due to violent sounding fights or,
2.) that the police had been over and witnessed something or,
3.) that friends, family saw her with bruises and abrasions, or
4.) that she complained to others that Mr. Schiavo had hit her, or
5.) any of that from any of his subsequent girlfriends.

For me, the profile arguement and the rest of the anecdotes are trying
to force a truth rather than proof of one.

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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---
I'm breaking a kill file rule here. But here goes.

What proof Dana. Lets see you're condemning the man just because he
seems to fit some vague profile that has no predictability. On top of
that you use innuendo and libel in the hopes of smearing him as
guilty.

What proof you've just made a set of unsubstantiated statements. Lets
have some real evidence to back up your libel. Like an arrest sheet, a
released medical report. Not hearsay or some vaguely worded wish list
as a profile.

How about reversing it for a bit. Given the unsubstantiated
accusations you've made, there is a lot you're obviously guilty of -
according to the bubble gum secret psychopath detector, you're
obviously a mass murderer just waiting to happen. How do I know this,
well it just fits.

The point being is that you're making, in public, very serious
accusations without being able to show any support of a single one.
But given that its Shiavo I guess that's OK, in your eyes he's evil
incarnate and so doesn't deserve the same rights we all have.

back to kill file status.

On 7/8/05, Dana <dana.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
> please see our previous very lengthy discussion as to whether or not
> Schiavo fits the profile of an abusive male. Off the top of my head,
> there was the testimony of the subsequent girlfriend and evidence from
> some of Terri's friends that he was controlling and jealous ot the
> point of checking her odometer, that she was afraid of him, and was
> planning on moving out.
>
> Dana
>
> On 7/8/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dana wrote:
> > > There is evidence.
> >
> > What was it?
> >
> >
>
>

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Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:163855
---
Unfortunately, it can be very difficult to convict someone of domestic
abuse. But to accuse a judge of ignoring evidence "because [he] is
such a nice guy" is really out of line. It is particularly out of line
because it's wasn't a single judge who found the testimony in question
to be not believable. As someone has already mentioned, you've libeled
someone who has already been found legally in the right, now not just
one judge, but every judge that has ever been involved with this case,
and the prosecutor who found that all of those judges were correct.

I'm sorry of this topic hits a little too close to home for you.
However, just because domestic abuse happens doesn't mean that it
happened in this case. And even if it did happen in the relationship
in question, that doesn't mean that it was the cause of the injuries
that left her braindead.

Apparently attempting to force your personal religious beliefs on your
braindead daughter is perfectly legitimate, as is ignoring the
diagnosis of every doctor who examined your daughter in person, as is
accusing your son-in-law of domestic violence without any evidence
other than your word and doing so as an afterthought, having already
lost your legal battle to impose your religious beliefs on your
braindead daughter.

I seriously doubt that you are a professional criminal profiler, or
you wouldn't be on this mailing list. I doubt that your opinion on his
"fitting the profile" means anything other than that you are repeating
the opinion of another party to the case, probably someone in her
family. Criminal profiling is inexact, especially when weilded by a
layman. You can fit the profile and not be guilty. Seriously. How many
affluent white males between 30-40 do we have around here? They are
all clearly serial killers. Let's just lock them up now and get it
over with.

On 7/8/05, Dana <dana.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is evidence. It was presented at one or another of the hearings
> (who cares which at this point) and the judge chose to disregard it
> because Schiavo is so obviously a nice guy :) Which is par for the
> course and really not that surprising.
>
> There almost never is enough evidence because women don't talk about
> it, families don't talk about it, and when they do they are not
> believed because good old so and so would never do a thing like that.
>
> So it is not exactly earthshaking to hear that the county that felt
> there was no evidence of domestic violence now feels that there is no
> evidence of homicide, fifteen years after the fact.
>
> By the way, Shiavo's subsequent girlfriend *did* accuse him of
> stalking her and threatening her children. She was not believed at the
> hearing because she got the hell out of dodge rather than call the
> police at the time.

--
"You can't destroy EVERYthing. Where would you sit?" The Tick

Now for hire...
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+1

Larry (Serial Killer) Lyons

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"Seriously. How many affluent white males between 30-40 do we have around here? They are all clearly serial killers. Let's just lock them up now and get it over with."

I am not, that was red paint on my hands, I was digging in the yard because I like to garden.

sas

Scott A. Stewart,
Web Application Developer

Engineering Consulting Services, Ltd. (ECS)
14026 Thunderbolt Place, Suite 300
Chantilly, VA 20151
Phone: (703) 995-1737
Fax: (703) 834-5527

"Many thousands of years ago, a blue faced Pict stepped on a bloated sheep carcass... and thus the Pipes were born"

.... the Scottish Rogues




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---

> Larry wrote:
> What proof Dana. Lets see you're condemning the man just because he
> seems to fit some vague profile that has no predictability.

Well, let's put some numbers to it. Let's use a scale from 0 to 10
with 10 being 100% certain he's guilty and 0% being certain he's
innocent. In a court of law, 90% is considered guilty beyond a
reasonable doubt.

Now let's look at the facts:

1.) Given the odd circumstances surrounding her collapse, and the
probability of the spouse being responsible for these oddities, I
think we'd have to move him from 0 to 2.

2.) Next there's the profile and the unsubstantiated rumors. I'll be
generous and say that those get us from 2 to 4.

Ok, let's also assume that a "3" is necesary for an inquiry and a "5"
for an investigation. Mr. Schiavo is now a generous (to Dana) "4",
i.e. not worth of an investigation. However one was undertaken anyway
and came back negative. That moves him back down to a generous 2.

Dana seems to be saying that her analysis, combinded with her
experience and intuition, is sufficient to move him from a 2 to a 7 or
8. We are saying that, at most, the intuition is worth a point.

So the question for Dana is, how do you justify a 5 point move in
light of so little evidence? Intuition is a sufficient answer, but
the answer is so far unclear.

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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---
It wasn't me it was the one armed man.

On 7/8/05, SStewart <SSte...@ecslimited.com> wrote:
> "Seriously. How many affluent white males between 30-40 do we have around here? They are all clearly serial killers. Let's just lock them up now and get it over with."
>
> I am not, that was red paint on my hands, I was digging in the yard because I like to garden.
>
> sas
>
> Scott A. Stewart,
> Web Application Developer
>
> Engineering Consulting Services, Ltd. (ECS)
> 14026 Thunderbolt Place, Suite 300
> Chantilly, VA 20151
> Phone: (703) 995-1737
> Fax: (703) 834-5527
>
> "Many thousands of years ago, a blue faced Pict stepped on a bloated sheep carcass... and thus the Pipes were born"
>
> .... the Scottish Rogues
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 07/06/2005
>
>
>

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---
Who is number one....

Scott A. Stewart,
Web Application Developer

Engineering Consulting Services, Ltd. (ECS)
14026 Thunderbolt Place, Suite 300
Chantilly, VA 20151
Phone: (703) 995-1737
Fax: (703) 834-5527

"Many thousands of years ago, a blue faced Pict stepped on a bloated sheep carcass... and thus the Pipes were born"

.... the Scottish Rogues

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:larry...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 02:44 pm
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Bush Ends Schiavo Inquiry
Importance: Low

It wasn't me it was the one armed man.

On 7/8/05, SStewart <SSte...@ecslimited.com> wrote:
> "Seriously. How many affluent white males between 30-40 do we have around here? They are all clearly serial killers. Let's just lock them up now and get it over with."
>
> I am not, that was red paint on my hands, I was digging in the yard because I like to garden.
>
> sas
>
> Scott A. Stewart,
> Web Application Developer
>
> Engineering Consulting Services, Ltd. (ECS)
> 14026 Thunderbolt Place, Suite 300
> Chantilly, VA 20151
> Phone: (703) 995-1737
> Fax: (703) 834-5527
>
> "Many thousands of years ago, a blue faced Pict stepped on a bloated sheep carcass... and thus the Pipes were born"
>
> .... the Scottish Rogues
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 07/06/2005
>
>
>

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Oh shi....

/me dons body armor, inserts ceramic plates, wraps self in fireproof
blanket, and climbs down into the fallout shelter.

On 7/8/05, Jennifer Larkin <jla...@gmail.com> wrote:

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:163874
---
So THAT's where you're storing the bodies! Somebody call the cops!

On 7/8/05, Kevin Graeme <kgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh shi....
>
> /me dons body armor, inserts ceramic plates, wraps self in fireproof
> blanket, and climbs down into the fallout shelter.

--
"You can't destroy EVERYthing. Where would you sit?" The Tick

Now for hire...
http://www.blivit.org/mr_urc/index.cfm

Now blogging....
http://www.blivit.org/blog/index.cfm

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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---

> Kevin Graeme <kgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh shi....
>
> /me dons body armor, inserts ceramic plates, wraps self in fireproof
> blanket, and climbs down into the fallout shelter.
>

You know, it's not so bad in this fallout shelter. Kill those bugs
and get a little paint and it should be nice.

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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---
That one advantage to raising carnivorous ferrets.

And you all wondered why they were so friendly.

Human, the other other white meat...

larry

On 7/8/05, Jennifer Larkin <jla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So THAT's where you're storing the bodies! Somebody call the cops!
>
> On 7/8/05, Kevin Graeme <kgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oh shi....
> >
> > /me dons body armor, inserts ceramic plates, wraps self in fireproof
> > blanket, and climbs down into the fallout shelter.
> --
> "You can't destroy EVERYthing. Where would you sit?" The Tick
>
> Now for hire...
> http://www.blivit.org/mr_urc/index.cfm
>
> Now blogging....
> http://www.blivit.org/blog/index.cfm
>
>

[arc...@houseoffusion.com]

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"Children, I'll be frank. In the event of nuclear war we can only save
our best and brightest. Therefore, space in the fallout shelter will
be reserved for Lisa Simpson, Martin Prince, our championship kickball
team, and Sherri, but not Terri. "

On 7/8/05, Gruss Gott <grus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You know, it's not so bad in this fallout shelter. Kill those bugs
> and get a little paint and it should be nice.