Options for increasing broadband capacity for primary school

[Shane Hogan]

Hello wise CESI folks

I helping our school as a board member to get to grips with some IT issues. Broadband capacity is a major current challenge, at 6 Mbps at present via PDST. I would appreciate any guidance you can provide to help me understand the options to address this.

Am I right in thinking that there is no option to buy extra capacity from PDST? 

Would I be unreasonable to expect that the bandwidth provided by PDST will increase as school numbers increase over the coming years?

Is mobile broadband a realistic option to supplement this? I was thinking that a mobile unit could be part of the set of tablets that move around different classrooms, and switched on as required to support a single class at a time. Has anyone else taken this approach? 

I guess the only other option would be to buy another broadband connection from a supplier like Eir or Virgin Media. I'm wondering if they might have difficulties wiring us up, as we are currently based in one particular wing of a community school. Will I have to worry about firewalling and filtering this new connection, and all that entails, or is there any way to link this up to the PDST pipe for management purposes.

All advice and information and past experiences is most welcome.

Best regards

Shane

Shane Hogan

Senior Standards Officer and Senior Policy Advisor

National Disability Authority

Email: sho...@nda.ie

Web: http://www.nda.ie

Direct Line: 01-6080497

      

      

[Hassan Dabbagh]

Hi Shane, 

You ask so good questions: 

The PDST get a lot of the blame in these situations but it's purely because we have ' a name to blame' 

To the best of my knowledge the speeds to primary schools is fix and it's not looking like it will change anytime soon, if it does you'll hear about it here first ;) 

You could put in your own system all that means is you get a vendor out to do a site survey and she/ he will give you your answer.  Once this is done it will be left to you to manage your firewall, this may seem like a daunting task but there are schools on this list that manage just fine :) 

1) get a site survey done

2) calculate the cost associated with this move by talking to other school in the same situation.

3)Talk to the PDST, see if they have anything in the pipeline. 

Hassan Dabbagh

087 9044716

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[Chris Reina]

Hi Shane,

I concur entirely with Hassan…

In specific answers to your questions - yes, it is unreasonable to think the bandwidth provided will increase. The PDST really probably don’t choke the bandwidth (much). All too frequently, it is down to what your line in can support. The easiest way to find out is go to: https://www.eir.ie/eirfibreinfo/map/

Input your phone number and it will check the “maximum” speed of your line. Be prepared to take at least 1mbps off that in reality.

It will also depend on coverage in your area. ie: how many other buildings are using the same provider in your local area.

Mobile broadband is almost always not an option - unless you have fantastic 4G in your area (in which case you’d probably have great DSL as well)

You can of course put a 2nd network in to move with your tablets - but this generally ties into your existing network (and therefore your existing incoming connection)

Note that your “internal network” is radically different to your “external network”. Far too often I see “local IT guys” put in multiple Wireless Access points - with all different networks. This way madness and disaster lie… it may seem like a cheap interim solution - but in the long term, everyone will suffer and complain about speed issues, dropped connections, etc.

Another broadband connection is what I would recommend. I have used this approach in many situations and given the <now> cheaper cost of a 2nd or 3rd line, this can be funded and supplement existing networks. Yes, you will need to manage this - but it shouldn’t be that hard. You could but <probably> would not connect to the PDST router. Please note that whatever supplier you use (Eir, Virgin, etc.) will install the line, then their work will stop at the door. They’ll test that it works, but not setup your “internal” network, etc.

The very first thing you will need is an experienced network professional. They should be able to advise you on the best course of action to take.

I’m happy to have a chat with you if you like to advise on the pitfalls you may encounter. My details are below if you want to give me a buzz. Alternately, I’ll be speaking at the LIT ICT Edu conference in 10 days if you are attending there and happy to have a chat then. (http://www.lit.ie/ictedu)

Many thanks,

Chris Reina

[David Leahy]

Dont give up too quickly. Fibre is being rolled out to Primary schools, slowly, even in the greater Dublin area.  I know of 3 schools in very close proximity to each other which were in a Fibre black spot. 2 to 3 mb ADSL speed.
Some how PDST had the powers that be, run a Fibre cabinet a point closer to the schools!
All 3 running at almost 30mb now.

David

Sent from Outlook Mobile

[G P Ashe]

The key determinant is the proximity of Fibre Cabinet - not that Fibre is available in the area. Don't be tricked by marketing!

2Km from cabinet a 100Mbs connection will be reduced to 7Mbs

Greg Ashe

@gpashe

+353 87 234 6850

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[Cormac Cahill]

In school we’re getting great speeds but I probably think that because at home I am not. I’d take 7mbps any day. I’m currently getting 0.3mbps and I’ve just been told that I live 100 metres from where they will be stopping. On the other side of me they are stopping 200m away. So basically what Eir are telling me is to move the house. :(

Cormac Cahill

[David Leahy]

Sorry is this 2016?
ISDN speed

Sent from Outlook Mobile

From: Cormac Cahill
Sent: Wednesday, 13 April, 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [CESI List] Options for increasing broadband capacity for primary school
To: cesi...@googlegroups.com

In school we’re getting great speeds but I probably think that because at home I am not. I’d take 7mbps any day. I’m currently getting 0.3mbps and I’ve just been told that I live 100 metres from where they will be stopping. On the other side of me they are stopping 200m away. So basically what Eir are telling me is to move the house. :(

Cormac Cahill

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[Chris Reina]

Too bloody right!

I’m sure I remember the DoE telling us that by 2014 every school would have broadband… but perhaps they didn’t specify what speeds… :-(

Bring back dial-up and ISDN…

[sigh]

C

<unknown.png>

[Iseult Mangan]

I'd take broadband at home any chance I could get we have option of dial up only 😱 .12 best I ever got ever!!! Try driving 15km in the evening to check school emails in tesco car park with mobile dongle ... Not to mind 9 wks of your daughter in Learnstorm making you do it every night and wkend back in the cold of Jan and Feb, torture !!!

Then at school it's been on again off again all year.... Been examined at school for new wireless scheme in the last two wks have everything crossed and six trees sprayed with red paint for culling next wkend (after communion in our house coz hubs has far too many jobs to battle at home first) that it comes to pass 16mbs #pinchmeimdreaming

Really starting to feel the unfairness of broadband access as my kids grow up one night in Dublin and my 5yr olds reaction to no buffering!!!!!

Iseult 

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Apr 2016, at 20:39, Cormac Cahill <cormac...@me.com> wrote:

In school we’re getting great speeds but I probably think that because at home I am not. I’d take 7mbps any day. I’m currently getting 0.3mbps and I’ve just been told that I live 100 metres from where they will be stopping. On the other side of me they are stopping 200m away. So basically what Eir are telling me is to move the house. :(

Cormac Cahill

<unknown.png>

[Gmail]

I agree Iseult. We need to think of Broadband as a right not a privilege. All our children deserve to be treated equally when they access education irrespective of where you live and broadband is becoming an essential tool for education today. 

Neil O'Sullivan 

Sent from my iPhone

[Iseult Mangan]

It should Neil your right and I do acknowledge that in parts of Dublin as I named it as my new dream home location  and other areas there becomes the equality in deliverable broadband. V the access to it issue and it has to be commended that teachers, schools, education centres and libraries as well as clubs like coder Dojo do amazing work, it really is time ireland as a nation had the infrastructures available to all that they do on the interventional space station #outofthisworld 

Iseult 

Sent from my iPhone

[Shane Hogan]

Thanks for all the feedback and interesting discussion. I also came across this earlier discussion on a similar question, where Tom from PDST mentions their plans to improve the service. I've asked him for an update on that thread;

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/cesi-list/school$20broadband$20pdst/cesi-list/9Fgle9c0TZQ/IXQWjX04c5wJ

Hassan - Is the site survey done by Eir / Virgin, or do I need to get an independent engineer for this?

Chris - I tried that Eir Fibre checker. It tells me that fibre is available, but it doesn't give me any capacity measure.

Many thanks

Shane

[Hassan Dabbagh]

I would ask someone in Eir or what ever vendor you choose, Once you've done the fibre check test thingie now you need real world confirmation and best way to get that is to get an Eir guy out. 

Hassan Dabbagh

087 9044716

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[Imogen Bertin]

Just my twopence but I believe that history will view our failure as a state to provide broadband infrastructure as more serious than the property/banking boom/recession. It will cause more emigration and lack of education and employment opportunites over a 20-30 year timeframe than the bust ever could.

Imogen

I turn email around within 24 hours barring disasters, but if you need something urgently, ring...

Reagrove, Minane Bridge, Co. Cork, Ireland P17 KH32
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[Stephen Patterson]

Hi Shane,

I'm in a primary school here in Cork and we have just gotten an upgrade to our broadband provided by the NCTE schools broadband service. Before this upgrade we were getting about 4 Mbps and now we're getting up to 20mbps. Apparently the line will take 40 but the current Cisco Router will only handle up to a maximum of 30 mbps anyway. I spoke with very helpful people there who told me that they were rolling out upgrades to these routers also and so I should get even faster speeds in the future. We did have to organise getting a new phone line installed in the school but all broadband costs are covered by NCTE. 

Hope that helps,

Stephen

On Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 5:17:30 PM UTC+1, Shane Hogan wrote:

[Chris Reina]

Hi Shane,

It appears you can get up to 100mbps with Eir - note the “up to” - it’s unlikely you will achieve this in total, but you should get at least 70mbps (or generally 2/3 of total).

Again - as pointed out by other people - this is only an approximate speed - there are plenty of reasons why you will never achieve whatever speed they tell you.

I do many site surveys and while an Eir / Virgin engineer will call to you - there will almost certainly be a lengthy time delay in this.

Many engineers do this for free (although some charge) and I would advise an independent engineer to have a look. They should map the whole premises, test the line, test contention ratios, wireless signal strength, number of wireless channels being used, equipment already in place and all routers/firewalls/access points.

This is the beginning of the process and will give you definitive information on the best way to proceed.

Happy to do this for you - but I’m at the other end of the country!

Chris

On 14 Apr 2016, at 11:02, Shane Hogan <sho...@nda.ie> wrote:

[G P Ashe]

This info in relation to distance from cabinet is important. It is from the Eir website!

Greg Ashe

@gpashe

+353 87 234 6850

[Chris Reina]

Guys - that Greg Ashe - he speaks much sense!

Take note!

C

On 14 Apr 2016, at 16:17, G P Ashe <gpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

This info in relation to distance from cabinet is important. It is from the Eir website!

<image.png>

[Paul Carolan]

Hi Shane,

I am an ICT coordinator and recently we bought Chromebooks and like you had in mind, we use the mobile option for wifi. Thanks to our talented caretaker we were able to convert a mobile shelf into a trolley with power adaptors on the back attached to a single socket charger so we can protect against battery depletion and transformers overheating with excessive charging. Our trolley takes 18 devices and has room for more. I have a netgear wifi router that accompanies the trolley wherever it goes and teachers simply plug this into access points on our network. I've not programmed the router but am told I should as it may cause some sort of signal conflict with our network but tbh I'm a bit clueless on that. Maybe another group member could clarify? Things work fine so if its not a problem...

I don't buy into the 'whole-school wifi' approach as I don't believe it's justified given the current costs and the fact that primary students aren't yet equipped with personal devices for their learning in the way many post primary students are.

Paul

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