online load & Ed Code

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Marcoux, Peter

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Mar 15, 2021, 5:19:20 PM3/15/21
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Hi, Folks,

Like many people in the working world, some faculty on our campus are talking about the possibility of teaching their entire load online post-covid. Two questions that came up: is there anything in Ed Code that allows or prevents faculty from doing so? Also, if faculty are allowed to teach entirely online and are not required to come to campus, do faculty have to live in California (according to Ed Code or some other statute)?

 

We at ECC currently have an unofficial policy where full time faculty can only teach 2 classes online per semester which we are trying to change (however, sometimes the unofficial policies are harder to change than the official ones).

 

I also know local contracts usually deal with being on campus. Ours at ECC was just changed to require faculty to be on campus three days a week (from a from a four day/week requirement).

 

Any help with this is appreciated.

Pete Marcoux

 

Freitas, John E

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Mar 15, 2021, 5:36:55 PM3/15/21
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Hi Peter - that’s a completely local decision.
John

John Freitas, Professor of Chemistry 
LACC Articulation Officer
DAS Parliamentarian
Los Angeles City College 



On Mar 15, 2021, at 2:19 PM, Marcoux, Peter <pmar...@elcamino.edu> wrote:


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David Morse

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Mar 15, 2021, 5:43:53 PM3/15/21
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Hi Peter,

As John said, nothing in Ed Code or Title 5 addresses this at all.  A lot of places do have contract language on the matter, but, again as John said, that is local.

 

I would add that it would worry me from a point of view of keeping people engaged with governance and other activities in campus. You do want the faculty to be active, not only with the senate and the union and things like that but also with student clubs and events. If they are allowed to teach fully online and are never on campus, I would worry about how that would work.  But that is just me, someone who loathes online meetings.  The more things get put online, the closer I get to retirement. 😊

 

David

 

David W. Morse, PhD

Professor of English, Long Beach City College

At-Large Representative, FACCC Board of Governors

President, Academic Senate for California Community Colleges 2014-2016

(562) 938-4458

 

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From: <cccse...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Freitas, John E" <FREI...@LACITYCOLLEGE.EDU>
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Date: Monday, March 15, 2021 at 2:37 PM
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Subject: Re: [Google Group CCCSenates] online load & Ed Code

 

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Piper Rooney

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Mar 15, 2021, 6:04:30 PM3/15/21
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Our Guild is looking at this issue right now, Pete. 
I'm interested in the answers to both your questions.

On our campus, Remote Synchronous Instruction (RSI) has not yet been classified as Distance Education, so many faculty have elected to teach "RSI" and would like to continue to do so without ever completing our Distance Ed Certification. 

Are you having any challenges getting faculty to complete their DE Certification requirements at your college? (Ours is @One's 40-hour Introduction to Online Teaching and Learning).

Thanks.
Piper Rooney
Glendale Community College



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Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Google Group CCCSenates] online load & Ed Code
 
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Denise Schulmeyer

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Mar 15, 2021, 6:05:18 PM3/15/21
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At Grossmont and Cuyamaca Colleges we have a contractual limit of a .70 online teaching load. We have a side letter in effect that suspends that provision until the end of the fall semester.

Denise Schulmeyer
Academic Senate President
Grossmont College

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Lisa Villa

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Mar 16, 2021, 11:13:42 AM3/16/21
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On the flipside, and as the current curriculum chair on my campus, I've had more participation in shared governance meetings than ever before ( no problems meeting quorum),  presumably because it's easier to click a link on one's laptop versus going somewhere physically...

Lisa

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pmar...@elcamino.edu

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Mar 16, 2021, 1:18:13 PM3/16/21
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Thanks everyone. 
@Piper Yes, we are having similar trouble with some faculty. 

Patrick Kelly

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Mar 16, 2021, 1:29:09 PM3/16/21
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Hello All:

I think it would be an absolute travesty to allow unlimited numbers of instructors to teach online.  For some subjects and some students it is a vehicle that allows them the flexibility to move forward with their educational goals, but we surely can’t be thinking to just open it up as an accepted practice for the majority.  The sense of community, the personal interaction, the campus vibrancy could be mostly lost.  As we have seen in the past year it takes a very special personality and skill set to pull off a DE course while at the same time fostering those relationships.  Also, many pure DE courses are asynchronous which works well for some students who have the skill set to navigate a DE environment and benefit from that flexibility but, once again as we have seen, this is not the preferred modality for the majority of our students.  

Further, creating a much larger online presents at the expense of face to face classes will undoubtedly harm traditionally underserved and/or economically disadvantaged students to a very high degree.  

Not to mention the fact that the act of just going to school, waking up, getting your coffee, meeting a friend, heading to class is an amazing experience that I assume we all very much enjoyed.  “The College Experience” is not happening on zoom.  That is for sure!

Finally, there is already a lane for those select instructors to become proficient and competent DE instructors, the OEI, run through the Chancellor’s Office that should not be bypassed any longer than is absolutely necessary.


As union president, I would never in a million years negotiate faculty be able to teach purely online except for very specific, documented, data driven reasons.

my $0.02

Patrick

Patrick A. Kelly, Ph.D.
Professor of Chemistry
President, United Professors of Marin
College of Marin
Kentfield, CA 94904



nikkile...@gmail.com

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Mar 16, 2021, 1:50:43 PM3/16/21
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This is very helpful dialogue. We too have started some conversation about this on our campus. There is a small group who would like to pursue fully teaching online, (but at this point, without a college wide dialogue) there is a majority of folks who can see how this is not a good idea for some of the reasons stated. Thank you for this discussion. I will share these comments with our folks.
Nikki Dequin Bena
Academic Senate President
Gavilan College

Mike Kalustian

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Mar 16, 2021, 2:02:15 PM3/16/21
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Hi everyone, 
This is a topic we were exploring pre COVID at Los Angeles City College. and it has a few moving targets . The assignment ratio is very much a Union issue rather than Senate, but we are both working with the Administration. The biggest issue isn’t the assignment, it is the total work hours. FT instructors are paid for much more than just their teaching hours, so even if a faculty member’s load is all Online they would still be required to be on campus for the additional 20 hrs of their work week for Office Hours, Department duties and Shared Governance commitments. 

We require two training classes to be certified in teaching Online, 1 Canvas basics course, 1 Online Pedagogy course, as well as the Specific Canvas shell has to be peer reviewed by our Online Education Committee.  So in essence the Instructor needs to be Canvas certified, Online certified, and the Course needs to be certified. 

PRE Covid we had a 30% rule. No more that 30% of Class load could be online, I suspect that will change going forward. Regardless of what it is, those FT Faculty would still need to be physically on Campus for their other duties. An adjunct certainly could teach from anywhere online, but I could not imagine a FT tenured professor being allowed to live in another state and teach since we are paid for more than just our teaching 

Mike Kalustian
Academic Senate President 
Los Angeles City College 


Andrew Park

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Mar 16, 2021, 2:36:19 PM3/16/21
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> PRE Covid we had a 30% rule. No more that 30% of Class load could be online, I suspect that will change going forward.

As someone who has been teaching physics online for some time before COVID (and watching enrollment numbers carefully, as one-time department chair), I thought we community colleges would eventually go to somewhere around 50% online and 50% face-to-face instruction.

There are some disciplines where online teaching was already majority of courses taught pre-COVID, and although certain disciplines had much less online offering (Physics among them), if you look at long-term enrollment trends, online offering has to increase (and some of this increase would necessarily come from decrease in face-to-face classes, if students prefer online over face-to-face). I do think community colleges (Calbright not withstanding) should continue to offer face-to-face classes; we do serve substantial number of students who struggle in the online setting, and there have to be options for them to pursue education face-to-face.

P.S. More than 50% of my teaching load was online, but I usually came to campus every day, for office hours and other college governance things (pre-COVID, and I expect, post-COVID).

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