AB 705

[Martin Hittelman]

What are your feelings regarding the effects of AB 705 in relation to our colleges as community colleges? Has your college eliminated the offering of elementary algebra or pre-English composition classes? How has the elimination of remedial classes affected students whose goal is not to transfer to a university? How has the elimination of remedial courses (such as elementary algebra and pre-English 1) affected the passing rate of your first non-remedial course in English or Mathematics?

Marty Hittelman

[Leigh Anne Shaw]

It's a worthwhile question; thank you for asking it. I do wish that people would extend the analysis and discussion to include ESL. 

ESL has been utterly decimated, and it's not because there is suddenly no more need for it. With colleges having eliminated placement testing and putting emphasis on shortening the path to graduation (I am not arguing against this, in theory), ESL has come to be viewed by both the college and the students as a useless, punitive, unit-wasting drag on their academic experience and something to be avoided instead of an opportunity to give students linguistic competencies to use in their academic career. In this way, it is difficult to highlight the benefits of English language instruction, even if students want it. Further, if students aren't tested, they aren't initially identified as language learners when they arrive. If they are put directly into English, they are tracked in the same group as native English speakers, so there is no way to track their success in terms of language ability, and there is no way to know if they never, or ever, would have benefitted from additional instruction in English as a foreign language. If they end up repeating English, would they have been more successful in that English class had they instead taken an ESL class prior to the English class they failed, using the same number of class attempts to get to that point? We'll never be able to know this because we are prevented from identifying these students to begin with.  There is also a false perception that all language learners are coming from high school, but that is only 30% of our college ESL population; fully 70% of our ESL students are adults who do not come from US high schools. Yet, it is difficult to identify these adults because they go through the same entrance process as native speakers. Finally, the research group that is chiefly providing the data on ESL for student success discussions has repeatedly excluded adult language learners because they are too difficult to identify. So it becomes a cycle, and it's hard to see how it benefits that 70% portion who are adult language learners. 

I see the benefits of AB 705 for native speakers who have been racialized and minoritized to a point where they have been underplaced and underserved. We forget that most English language learners are also people of color, and we don't consider them in our equity discussions. Honestly, I don't see how this myopia serves language learners. If you want to study German or Swahili or Malay from an international language program, the first thing that language program will do is give you a placement test to best place you into the class for your needs; community college ESL programs are prevented from acting like any other language program. 

LA

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:20 AM Martin Hittelman <mart...@gmail.com> wrote:

What are your feelings regarding the effects of AB 705 in relation to our colleges as community colleges? Has your college eliminated the offering of elementary algebra or pre-English composition classes? How has the elimination of remedial classes affected students whose goal is not to transfer to a university? How has the elimination of remedial courses (such as elementary algebra and pre-English 1) affected the passing rate of your first non-remedial course in English or Mathematics?

Marty Hittelman

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[Martin Hittelman]

But doesn't the issue of students not educated in the United States being properly placed to their best advantage also apply? If there is no record of successful passage of elementary algebra, what happens to the student who has not had such success. Is not elementary algebra a useful course for such students. Clearly they will not be successful in intermediate algebra or other transfer level math courses.

Marty Hittelman

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[cheris...@gmail.com]

I have a question regarding the AB 705 Improvement Plan report that is due on March 11th.  Has any of your colleges asked faculty for their participation in the report?

Cherise Mantia

Gavilan College

[Uyeki, Chisato]

Hi,

We’ve held about 4 meetings with the faculty and went through the data together to be able to answer the questions. English and Math departments have met to discuss it as well. We are also taking the report through Senate.

Chisa

 

E. Chisato Uyeki

Academic Senate President

Librarian 

cuy...@mtsac.edu

Pronouns: she, her, hers

 

 

 

From: cccse...@googlegroups.com <cccse...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of cheris...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 3:10 PM
To: CCCSenates <cccse...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Google Group CCCSenates] AB 705

 

  EXTERNAL SENDER- Exercise caution with requests, links, and attachments.

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[Cherise Mantia]

Thank you for your reply.  Our English and Math deans are in charge of the report.  A week ago they talked to me about Senate signing off on it, I informed them that Senate would need to vote on it.  They are presenting the information item today.  

Cherise Mantia, M.A.

Sent from iPhone

On Feb 28, 2022, at 3:19 PM, 'Uyeki, Chisato' via CCCSenates <cccse...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Nick Strobel]

My Senate is voting on the AB 705 Improvement Plan today. We've had presentations in two previous Senate meetings already.  The data addendum shows that having students start out in the pre-transfer level math (algebra 2) has lower throughput than starting out at transfer-level math. We have to choose Option 2 BUT a significant chunk of the Senate says we should pick Option 3A, giving the students the CHOICE to take algebra 2 if they need it. It looks like we can no longer even offer the choice of the courses because of the lower throughput, so we have to remove the pre-transfer level math courses. If I understand the AB 705 implementation directives from the Chancellor's Office, we cannot offer the pre-transfer level math courses at all now (or Fall 2022) if the throughput is lower. Our STEM faculty are up in arms about deleting the pre-transfer level algebra 2 course entirely. A lot of STEM students may have to change their major to something else. Our high schools do NOT have have algebra 2 as a graduation requirement, so many of our high school students do NOT have algebra 2 under their belt, counter to the assumption from the CCCCO.

[Freitas, John E]

Sounds like a good time for some civil disobedience…

 

John Freitas, Professor of Chemistry

Los Angeles City College

Articulation Officer

DAS Parliamentarian

323-953-4000 ext.2605

frei...@lacitycollege.edu

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[Roger Dickes]

Hello All - 

Glendale's Senate passed this resolution, authored by our Senate 1^st VP and professor of Math, last week: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mqwwoizc1e6d8p/Equitable%20Placement%20Plan%20Resolution.docx?dl=0

Discussion on the motion to approve this resolution was extensive and our VPI, VPSS, and Dean of Student Services made 5–10-minute presentations during Senate discussion, which is extremely rare at GCC.

Arguments in support of approving the resolution were linked to this ASCCC white paper, with focus on page 22, which shows huge jumps in unsuccessful attempts and transfer-level math for impacted groups: https://asccc.org/sites/default/files/ASCCC_Optimizing_Student_Success_white-ppr_2020_v1.pdf

There was discussion of a planned migration of pre-transfer math instruction to Noncredit; however, much will have to be worked out locally (including some negotiation) in order to offer this instruction. The issue of what happens to students who do not complete successfully and abandon hope came up, as well as the case in which a student might be re-entering math after a long time away from college.

I am being asked not to sign the local Equitable Placement Plan Document, as the ASCCC did not sign off on the CCCCO's memorandum.

Warmly,

Roger

Roger Dickes  Academic Senate President Instructor of Animation   Visual & Performing Arts Phone: (818) 240-1000, Ext. 5815 www.glendale.edu

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From: cccse...@googlegroups.com <cccse...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Freitas, John E <FREI...@LACITYCOLLEGE.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2022 12:08 PM
To: cccse...@googlegroups.com <cccse...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Google Group CCCSenates] AB 705

 

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[Nick Strobel]

Whether or not to put your signature on the AB 705 Improvement Plan may be answered in Scenario 10 of the "Scenarios to Illustrate Effective Participation in District and College Governance" put out by the ASCCC and the CC League. Is it okay to sign even if the Senate disagrees with the plan? Yes, as long it is clear that the signature "does not indicate approval but rather that faculty have been consulted appropriately in the plan's development." I think that the AB 705 Improvement Plan is a requirement of Title 5, so my signature will indicate that the Senate was consulted but not approval.

[Roger Dickes]

Thank you!

Roger Dickes  Academic Senate President Instructor of Animation   Visual & Performing Arts Phone: (818) 240-1000, Ext. 5815 www.glendale.edu

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From: cccse...@googlegroups.com <cccse...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Nick Strobel <nstr...@bakersfieldcollege.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 9, 2022 1:32 PM
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Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Google Group CCCSenates] AB 705

 

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