ccTiddly or TiddlyWeb

[Seba]

Hi,

I am still trying to decide which of the above server side solutions
would be best for my needs. I am building a project management tool in
tiddlywiki and I would like to have it as a server solution for my
team to use it. I was told the tiddlyweb would be best, but I am more
inclined to ccTiddly since it uses sql in the background and I would
use that also for other purposes.

My concern is the development and stability of the ccTiddly. Any
opinion is most welcome. Unfortunately at this point I am just a
beginner user more or less and I can't really contribute to any
development aspect yet. Maybe in the future.

Thank you.
regards,
seba

[VL]

Hi Seba,

I'm not sure if I can be of much help, but I've been using cctiddly
(from the first version of cct by coolcold, to 1.7.6 and 1.8.5 by
Simon McManus) for few years now.

All I can say is that - yes, because of mysql and PHP, this
tw-variant is the only viable alternative for me. I have a
"production" cctiddly (1.8.5) with more than 8k records (tiddlers)
that is used by some 10-20 people (it's an ISMS according to *ISO
27001) and I think I'm hitting its limits - performance-,
maintenance-wise.
The most important problem, probably due to its size, is unreliability
of the saving process (changes may not get saved into the database,
without warning) and also creation of duplicates (same titles for more
tiddlers) which will make some tiddlers "disappear" on the client side
while in the database back-end they still exist.
Over the years of usage I've learnt how to spot some of these issues
and how to (manually) fix them. But with growing number of users it is
difficult it "teach" them all the workarounds. I still refer to my
cctiddly as a "prototype" and I warn my users to check twice the work
they did in it.

Because of all this I've tried to move on to TiddlyWeb, but without
success. For me TiddlyWeb seems to have a much more difficult setup
(python and other issues) and above all, rather different philosophy
of working with "records".

For now I'm sticking to cctiddly, even though one day these cctiddly
workspaces I've created for ISMS, risk assessment and threat modelling
may get converted into native web-based applications. As soon as I
find a better solution.

Of course the most beatiful part of tiddlywiki is working with tags
and creating database-like relationships ad-hoc, via web browser. The
flexibility it gives you is limitless and that's the only reason I've
stayed with cctiddly for so long.

VL

*just these days we have successfully finished the certification
process for ISO/IEC 27001

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VL

[Nemo]

I would love to see tiddlywiki become a front-end only to whatever backend suits.

* local file (as per original tiddlywiki)
* remote server (as per tiddlyweb/cctiddly), with content loaded dynamically as needed

...but coding that is far beyond my current skill, and not in my coding target direction.

For now I'm sticking to cctiddly, having had similar setup nightmare with my look at tiddlyweb.

My observation of development of cctiddly is that it's stalled, but I'd say it's far from abandoned. I get the impression that It's stable enough such that there is little incentive for anyone to step up with any great changes.

.../Nemo

[Kashgarinn]

There's no real development with CCTW, but perhaps that's because
people don't realize that they can send in bugs or can send in fixes
to bugs.

it's quite stable, no real problems with it stability wise.

[Seba]

I decided to go with cctw especially because it uses sql database.
As I go along I will post my progress and hopefully make some real
contributions in time.

regards
seba

[Joe A.]

Seba hi,

I've been using CCTW for several years, since lately switched to
another Serverside TW, named: GieWiki (Current release 1.12)
(http://giewiki.appspot.com/)

It runs on Google AppEngine - which I suppose is an advantage to some
and a drawback to others.
Since I use it for personal use, - I run it on AppEngine SDK, which is
a breeze to setup, compare to MySQL+Apache.
I'm not here to advocate the switch, but seeing that CCTW development
is stalled, I've looked for alternative.
Main advantages (my view, not claiming to be complete in any way),
are:
* Active development (And quite responsive in adding new features and
bug fixing)
* High quality, very stable, from early releases of the code.
* More complete and convenient Logging mechanism.
* Simple manage of multi-TW hosting on same sources.
* Better Revision handling capabilities + DIFF utility.
* Simple to install, manage.
* Quit impressive Integrated commenting system (though - I don't
really use it).
* Seems to be going better in direction of server side wiki, which I
think should be the ultimate target (my DB is about 4MB size).
* Quite many features, I don't use still, but available in current
source code.
* Convenient import tool, but - subject to max size of 1MB file.

Major cons -
* AppEngine backend ... - it may not be as free as MySQL + Apache
backend.
* Limited to 1MB file size in import features.
* Have not implemented framework for multi-lingual interface (for
those using it with other languages than English.
* AppEngine Console management - is less capable than using available
tools on MySQL (I got used to SQLMyAdmin tool)
* Speed ... - First load time, seems much slower than it was with
running MySQL + Apache, compare to AppEngine SDK.

These are just my views on the two, others most likely have other
opinion, I will not argue.
Still, I owe much credits to CCTW, since used it from the early days
of coolcode's source. - So - either ones would be a good options, on
the server side implementations.

Y.A.

[Seba]

Thank you for your input on this. It seems to me its worth checking
this solution.
However, eventhough cctiddly development is a bit stalled, I am still
partial to it, at least for now, because it uses sql databases and I
think I could make use of this for some other purposes.
Will test it for sure.
regards
seba

[Nemo]

That's also my feeling.

I love TiddlyWiki concept, and part of that is it's total self-reliance.

Similarly, I run ccTiddly 100% on my own server, sql, apache, etc...

giewiki has some nice extensions on the Tiddly concept, but it's reliance on the google cloud (or any external app service) is a show stopper for me)

.../Nemo