synergizing :: pool & algo | boldly jumping in

[Benjamin Aaron Degenhart]

Hi there good people,

do you know this silent listeners on lists that only jump in when they want to advertise something from themselves and then they don't refer to anything specific that has been shared on the list? 

well... i am that one now :)

from what i am reading and sensing in this overlapping field(s) you/we are swimming in i consider/hope this to be relevant or at least interesting :)

would love to hear how this finds you - it's a big convergence of the past years for my young mind.

POOL :: ALGO | synergizing V1

joyous greetings from Bogotá and see some of you at @contactcon,

Benjamin Aaron Degenhart
@benjaminaaron

[BenB]

GLad you posted this here Benjamin (I'm the ben that just tweeted you re: PESO)!

It is a few levels deeper than ProM has been able to dig so far, but brings some interesting approaches to the algorithm(s). More and more the question becomes (meta)data entry, storage, linking...or else smart tools for scraping...or both.

I'm a believer right now in some kind of hybrid categorical framework that blends a conventional taxonomy with emergent growth/refinement and extensibility (folksonomy) -- maybe 'faxonomy' ?? to find some common handles and relations for data types/entities (and/or translation engine). A while ago i had quite an 'aha' when the old-fashioned 5(6) W questions jumped forward as great primary dimensions-- who, what, when, where, why, how...that will make sense for all types of users and interfaces, while offering good specificity and continuity.

So yes, user-submitted (or use-defined) metadata that is site-independent, yet somehow cumulative...Fabio Barone (on this list, and I think you know him too) just reminded me of microformats as a bridge between rigid semantic systems and open organic web development. Perhaps we standardize a few of these, but would still imply central indexing service...and also a subjective trust component I think.

Probably getting close to Tav's togethr.at /espian/ampify systemology now. But I want to point out also that this kind of 'grail quest' tends to range out quite a long ways from the mainstream action and even if there is feedback effect from the adventurous scouts, there is probably much greater effect by trying to stay well within reach of the 'multitudes' and even actively 'marketing' products/services with narrower, stylish, focus.

I may be one of the few left here who still supports the 'dating site' analogy as a core theme for project matching, but that's the main reason: it's a familiar, exhilarating, buzzworthy bridge to bring a lot of people over on.

Anyhow, good thinking (all 24 years worth ; ) and hope this feeds into the discussion. I'll share more about PESO soon (almost time to beg for money to make it happen).

[Benjamin Aaron Degenhart]

for those interested - based on feedback from Venessa and others i created a 13pages linear paper version of my cognitive fieldmap and also a zoomable version: http://wp.me/pyPX5-cJ

Thanks Colin, much appreciate your reply! 

holon is a great term - i am actually thinking about replacing "entity" with "holon" in my thing. i first heard it when i signed up to a one year training in deep ecology (mostly inspired by joannamacy.net) in Germany called "holon training".

hah, i did indeed go nuts with fractals and attractors - during school and the short period of studying Bioinformatics i had long nights of enjoying mandelbrot, lorentz-attractor and solar systems of comets flying around planets and finding stable paths and all that :) Unfortunately i am not (yet) into the deeper mathematics of it - but i remember the beautiful overwhelming feeling of sinking deep into understand the mandelbrot formula... the cognitive understanding has been fading away (could be refreshed though) but the imprint into perception and sensing is certainly precious.

"process, form and system" i heard from my friend Rowan, he is helping to convene a biomimiciry network here in Colombia and he told me that this is somehow the framework for what we can learn from nature. 

i like your image of the soup of non-committal space a lot, will take that with me, thank you! from a personal/spiritual maturity point of view it is very interesting to talk about the non-attached space as well :) i remember intense learning processes along that line from my time living in intentional communities... and that's eventually my angle of inquiry - where math and algorithm meet the social space and its dynamics and landscapes of relevance.

where are you based Colin? would be great to meet up some day and share some soup :)

joyously,

Benjamin

[Benjamin Aaron Degenhart]

ah, hey PESO Ben, thanks :)

wow, i feel honored to hear about the depth you see in this!! 

yeah, faxonomy - at this point i can't quite follow you into the nuances of what you're saying because some of the vocabulary isn't familiar to me (yet)... but yes, i guess it makes sense to start with the best possible categorizing structure and trigger for gettings started - and let the system evolve from there in both content and categories. Systems that have a strictly set amount of categories i believe are only temporarily useful.

cool, thanks for the pointer to Fabio (hey Fabio!) and to Tav's work!

great, looking forward to learn about PESO! and please - don't "beg for money" ;) instead give people the amazing chance to be part of it in whatever form of energy comes appropriate for them - for some it will be money!! 

warmly,

Benjamin

[BenB]

Depth, or breadth, depending on where one is coming from with their own background and study...it is maybe some work though for the viewer to find both at the same time. It sounds like you had that in mind though, keep people coming back and discussion growing out!

And I will come back to it, especially as practical applications develop. Not sure that my ideas are very 'nuanced' yet (poorly worded, perhaps yes) but I am trying to work within a narrower domain I think, to find practical application that can be built into familiar user experiences with easier consensus around data types and structures. Synthesis, or compromise, depending on perspective, also part of a longer process of integration and fertilization for emergence.

Would like to know where you think to go with some of these ideas 'in action' if there is any kind of hurry or chance to raise the energy further (yes, by inviting from the network in many forms). Especially if you see a possibility through GEN to enrich the network of wisdom and wealth I am very interested! This is closely aligned to my projects, which I am still trying to write better about :)

And certainly overlap with this group too (Project Matching) which may be able to do some interesting research with the type of matching/collaboration algorithms you propose if  a small test sample of project data can be gathered in a relatively well defined subject/action area. Awful quiet these days tho...

About money, well, I think there is a new niche for modern mendicants (pious beggars) who wish support from the community to do the work of sacred innovation and realignment...and yes it comes in many forms. However, managing to step out of the capital system for new engineering still may require patrons and a big virtual bowl. Maybe we can change some Western stereotypes about what it is to 'beg' for help. Maybe in fact this is a great honor and sacrifice, that someone should wish to become gift-entangled in such a growth process!

[Benjamin Aaron Degenhart]

thanks Ben, appreciate your thoughts. Hope to meet you in person in the near future :) 

do you mean GEN as in the Global Ecovillage Network?? youth meeting in Tamera coming up in July!

love that you use sacred innovation... heard about the book "Evolutionary Activism" from Tom Atlee? reading that now, very amazing!! i will work with Tom this fall in Oregon.

had some personal experience with shifting my money-paradigm, very learningful ;) i also like how Eddie puts the idea of micropatronage!

sure, it would be amazing if my algorithm-proposals could be useful for your algorithms! the "meaningful list fragments" / "whole pattern playlist sequences"... oh yes!

to your ideas 'in action' - meanwhile i am thinking about applying that concept/fieldmap to social bodies rather than software! in a group of 10 people you have 1024 (and exp. growing), so what if you learn to design a process to charge all of these subgroups with information (each as one entity (i like "holon" better meanwhile) as in the POOL part of the concept) and have elegant communication pathways for these 'bodies of knowledge' so that they can interact and evolve... a social processor? a group programming language? combined with morphing postures where postures symbolize meaning - a dance beyond words?

...contracting people into bits and bytes to train behavior for collective intelligence TO THEN a acknowledge the full human spectrum and expand into true collective intelligence without centralized overview. feeling some animations along that line appearing on my inner screen... should programme/flash-animate some visuals soon...

[Mark Roest]

In another thread, Swift, the multi-party transport protocol, I just sent a long proposal that starts with this categorizing system:

"The environmental, economic and land use knowledgebase is a mashup of digital earth imaging and Geographic Information Systems, Input-Output analysis, expert systems and interwoven, multi-scale sustainability solutions.

"Its major divisions are the 667 going-on-823 terrestrial eco-regions (smaller than biomes, larger than most ecosystems) that can be found on the World Wildlife Fund website, and the areas of use of the 5,000 to 6,000 languages / cultures still in existence on earth. These cross-reference each other, and all practical problems and solutions that have to do with nature and how people survive and thrive."

It is designed to be present in all 'practical' information flows and nodes. It selects usable, manageable information flows from a Niagara Falls of hits from a word-matching search, almost regardless of topic. Just do the math! Even though most communication is now in Chinese, English, Hindi, French, German or Spanish, plus a few dozen others, multiplying eco-regions by the number of problem types we have to deal with clearly shows a massive reduction in irrelevant data is to be gained. Furthermore, this is intended to, and will by its very nature, teach people to relate to their place on this planet, and that is critically important to our collective survival and happiness.

Regards,

Mark Roest

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[Benjamin Aaron Degenhart]

Re: reduction of irrelevant data and matching same things across languages/dialects... know about metaweb/freebase? came across it yesterday: http://youtu.be/tBSdYi4EY3s & http://www.freebase.com/

seems like their algorithms for charging one entity and managing the many could be valuable to investigate? 

[Mark Roest]

Thanks!

I watched the video, and checked out the other link; will read the FAQs tomorrow.

Regards,

Mark