White Nose Take Two

[Mark Minton]

This was covered in the New York Times today: <https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/28/science/bats-white-nose-fungus.html?unlocked_article_code=1.ME8.JRDQ.qLVl98527az9&smid=url-share>.

Mark Minton

On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 2:25 PM CaveBear <cave...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/a-fungal-disease-ravaged-north-american-bats-now-researchers-found-a-second-species-that-suggests-it-could-happen-again-180986715/

[Jerry]

It's odd that the Pd-1 fungus took so long to migrate to North America considering that European cavers have been visiting the West for many decades as have other folks that may have come in contact with the spores.

Jerry Atkinson.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to swrcavers+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/CAHSAQ7FKwZ9ugNjEJSLmTwfy%3DNT04qWZbN38cd7Q9a5ZS%3DLKBQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Mark Minton]

I don't subscribe to the theory that cavers brought WNS to the U.S. Jerry's reason is an obvious point against that idea. I think it much more likely that an infected bat hitched a ride on a cargo ship and got off at the Port of Albany, not far from where WNS was first detected. This had no doubt happened before, but maybe this time conditions were just right, and the fungus got a foothold in North America.

The best evidence against human transmission that I know of is the NSS Convention in Indiana in 2007. WNS first appeared in New York in 2006, but almost no one knew anything about it yet, so no precautions were being observed. Lots of cavers from the northeast came to Indiana, yet WNS did not appear there until several years later (2011). If humans were much of a vector, it should have shown up that winter or the following year, but it did not.

Mark

[Stephen Fleming]

On Tuesday 6/3/2025 18:06, 'Jerry' via CaveTex wrote:

It's odd that the Pd-1 fungus took so long to migrate to North America considering that European cavers have been visiting the West for many decades as have other folks that may have come in contact with the spores.

The only oddity is the persistent false narrative that humans are a vector.

That lie is the only thing that makes it possible for agencies to deny public access and require silly processes for permission to enter caves. So, they cling to it.

It's the bureaucratic version of 'the emperor has no clothes.'

It's completely disingenuous when agencies claim 'best science' informs their management actions, when it's abundantly clear such is not the case. But, it enables the charade and that's what's really important.

Stephen

[Stephen Fleming]

On Tuesday 6/3/2025 18:50, Mark Minton wrote:

I don't subscribe to the theory that cavers brought WNS to the U.S. Jerry's reason is an obvious point against that idea. I think it much more likely that an infected bat hitched a ride on a cargo ship and got off at the Port of Albany, not far from where WNS was first detected. This had no doubt happened before, but maybe this time conditions were just right, and the fungus got a foothold in North America.

Exactly. Translocation via international shipping is the only logical mechanism, but it's been dismissed/never considered since it doesn't support the preferred narrative of a human vector. The NY WNS instance was within 30 or so miles of an international port, as was the Washington state incident which was hyped as some incredible leap of infection that 'only' could have been the result of human transport.

The best evidence against human transmission that I know of is the NSS Convention in Indiana in 2007. WNS first appeared in New York in 2006, but almost no one knew anything about it yet, so no precautions were being observed. Lots of cavers from the northeast came to Indiana, yet WNS did not appear there until several years later (2011). If humans were much of a vector, it should have shown up that winter or the following year, but it did not.

Indeed. But none of that matters; agencies seized on an unexpected opportunity, adroitly employing this process:

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before. – Obama Administration Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, November 19, 2008

Stephen

[Taylor]

The CDC put out a paper (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/1/02-0104_article) even earlier about European bats hitching rides on cargo ships, with opportunity for disease transmission. What better place than up the Hudson?  Unfortunately, the motto of the bureaucrat is "I'm not going to allow anything to happen until I am safely retired."  Dave Taylor

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Groups "CaveTex / Texascavers" group.
To post to this group, send email to texas...@texascavers.com
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
Archives are at https://groups.google.com/g/cavetex
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CaveTex" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cavetex+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cavetex/db55d52e-703b-465b-8cd1-cdd02c5790ff%40gmail.com.

Virus-free.www.avast.com

[Jerry]

Hi folks,

I'm one of the moderators for the SWR Google Groups list serve, and I probably need to interject here with a few comments specific to our protocols. The other list serves have their own rules and standard practices.

The SWR Google Groups list serve is an electronic mailing list that facilitates communication amongst interested individuals as pertains to caving activities, news items, scientific research, conservation, and SWR business items for the general membership. It is not exclusive to SWR members but the ability to receive and write to the list serve is restricted, generally to cavers and their immediate families. Some exceptions apply.

The list serve moderators do not review and approve posts to the list. They do review requests to join the list serve, and have refused requests on several occasions, mostly to blanket requests from individuals that have no affiliation to caves or caving organizations, and usually originate from a foreign country.

That said, there are a few rules of the road :

1.) Topics should be cave related.

2.) Non-cave-related advertisements or services for hire types of postings are prohibited.

3.) Discourse on any topic should be civil and non-threatening to others. Trolling and flaming others will not be condoned.

4.) In these rather troubled times, it's best to avoid subjects which other members on the list serve may be sensitive to. Gender-related topics, politics, religion, ---- just to name a few, should be approached with caution even if cave-related.

5.) In general practice, the moderators do not strictly enforce these rules and protocols. However, repeat offenders are warned and will be banned from the list serve if bad behavior persists.

Jerry Atkinson.