Help with bowl motor

[Ian Jeffrey]

Hi guys
After almost 7 years my bowl motor started to make funny noises and then stopped turning. I thought it might be some granules stuck in there or something so I took the cat genie apart and took out the motor. My question is the shaft supposed to turn if I turn it? This is completely stiff and won't budge. Is the motor seized up? The scoop and drain motor move freely when I turn them. But is the bowl motor different? If it's supposed to move can these motors be serviced?
Any comments or suggestions are gratefully appreciated.
Thanks Ian.

[Aaron Averett]

Ian,

My recollection is that it's very difficult to turn the gear on the motor by hand, but it usually has a very small amount of play.

All may not be lost, though.  On top of the motor is a snap ring.  If you remove this (with a pair of snap ring pliers), the gear reduction mechanism, which takes up the top 1/3 of the can, should slide right out.  The rotor will be left inside, but you should be able to pull it out.  Be warned there's a tiny triangular spring inside there - you want to make sure you don't lose it. 

If your motor is seized completely, getting the gearbox out may be a challenge, but I bet it's not beyond repair.

I've had luck, on more than one occasion, with disassembling the motor, degreasing the gears, and then repacking with grease and reassembling.  I use a high temperature grease meant for use in automobile wheel bearings.  Every time I do it, I'm blown away by how much quieter it is.  It's a little late to get into tonight, but I can post some detailed instructions with photos tomorrow, if you need them.  My box is about due for this again anyway.

Cheers,

Aaron

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[Robert Deliën]

> My question is the shaft supposed to turn if I turn it? This is completely stiff and won't budge.

You should be able to do so, but you need to grab the motor and the gear firmly. You'll be turning it against it's gear reduction. And when you turn it, you should feel the cogging of the rotor spinning through the electric field. If you don't there's too much friction in there.

> Is the motor seized up? The scoop and drain motor move freely when I turn them. But is the bowl motor different?

The bowl motor has a higher reduction, so it turns a bit harder. Some times it gets water inside, making it seize up in the long run. The drain pump motor is of a completely different type.

> If it's supposed to move can these motors be serviced?

Yes; Follow Aaron's great description.
When removing the motor's front plate, check if none of the shaft holes are ground out into slits. If that's the case, the motor is written off, unless you have a this plate remade somewhere.

[Ian Jeffrey]

Thanks guys! I'll give it a try and see if that helps. I have some hope as when it first noticed I could "help" it along by turning the bowl manually and it would work for a few seconds then start making noises and stop. Fingers crossed.

[Ian Jeffrey]

Hi Guys

I got the motor apart and de-greased.  Is the gear that large arrow is pointing to supposed to spin?  I think so but it is stuck.  I have dealt with servo repair for RC planes and I'm wondering if Ithis gear be able to pull out from the pin?   Also three washers fell out 1 is flat the other 2 are a bit bent (i don't think this is normal is it?) and do you know where these washer should go?

Thanks for your help.

Ian

[Ken Kolbly]

Speaking in general terms, since I have not taken apart this specific
motor before, I will say the following:

1) the gear pointed to should turn freely. It appears to be engaged to
the final output gear. It is probably galled slightly to the shaft. Once
you get it off and cleaned up, regreased and reassembled it should be
fine. For a little while anyway!

2) the "bent" washers are sring washers. This is normal. They are used
to take up play or to provide a slight force along a shaft.

Good Luck! I love it when I see things getting fixed!

Ken

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[Aaron Averett]

Yes, that gear is supposed to turn freely.  If you can't pry it off its pin, maybe try cleaning it with some carburetor cleaner or something.  You'll want the inside of it to be as clean as possible before you apply new grease and reassemble.

I think the washers go on the rotor gear, but I don't recall for sure.

Aaron

[Ian Jeffrey]

Whoo hoo! Ok we are good to go!  I managed to turn it with a pair of vice grips and then it loosen right up and now it turns freely.  I added some high temperature grease and re-assembled the motor and it seems to be ready to be put back in the cat genie.  Not looking forward to finding where all those wires go on the board.  I took a bunch of photos as i pulled them off so hopefully it won't be a problem or I'll have to come back here to get some guidance.;)

Thanks for all of your help!

ian

[Ian Jeffrey]

Ok got the motor in and all those wires connected back to the board. That white power supply one is a Tough one but got it. And so far the bowl and scoop motor working! Didn't get to do a full cycle to make sure everything is working because the hose that connects to the water snapped. It's plastic and I guess gets weak over time. I'll just use one of those hose repairs or the quick connect when I repair. I have a pic to show the weak spot in the hose.
Thanks everyone for your help!

[Jason Floyd]

Just get a high-quality laundry hose with the same bent connector, those hoses it comes with are garbage.

[Robert Deliën]

> Just get a high-quality laundry hose with the same bent connector, those hoses it
> comes with are garbage.

Or attach a quick connect:
https://code.google.com/p/catgenius/wiki/HowToGardena
Gardena is a European brand, but I'm sure there's a US equivalent.

[Jason Floyd]

Looks really good. Wonder if you can get a 90 degree angles connector.  My box is flush against a wall. 

[Ken Kolbly]

Washing machine hoses are routinely available with 90-degree connectors on
one end.

[Glate]

Thanks to everyone in this old thread I was able to get my bowl motor out and cleaned but man are the teeth are completely ruined.

Anything that can be done? I've seen references to new bowl motors but no part numbers or anything along those lines. Really don't want to spend another $300+ over one stripped motor...

Help?!

[Michael Conner]

Glate

Is this a CG120 bowl motor gear ??

What city do you live in, I might have the parts.

Michael

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[Glate]

It is! Victoria, BC, Canada :)

[Michael Conner]

Glate,

I'll look tomorrow and see if I still have a drive motor and / or gear

Send me an email

Michael

captmike1909@gmailcom

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[Michael Conner]

Glate,

Send me your zip again via my email.

I must have deleted ..

Michael..

[aaron workman]

Pulled my bowl motor out this evening and it is stripped to no end.  Anyone find a replacement for the motor yet?

[Brian Compton]

Thanks to this discussion I was able to pull my bowl motor and get it working again.  It was working well in one direction, but didn't want to work in the other.  I took it apart (very greasy by the way) and found the gear between the final and the drive wasn't sitting completely straight.  I believe any washer that was present must have been ground to dust and there was some black dust that came out but there were no washers present.  I put a washer between the gear and the plastic housing and it's running well now.  Not sure how long it'll go but so far so good.

On another note, I have been getting impatient with the cooked poop smells from my Genies.  I have an older cat that often has soft stool so the cooked poop happens too often. While I had this one apart I removed the heater coils.  It has run a few times to the system board doesn't throw any errors when the heater isn't plugged in.  I think it's drying sufficiently without the heat.

[Kyle Kimsey]

I had a similar problem with mine and this thread was definitely helpful. So thanks to everyone involved.
What my unit started doing was it'd slow start, so it'd move in the wrong direction, and smash the #2 under the scoop. If I held the bowl for a fraction (not sure if the MCU was reversing it from the friction or what), it'd reverse direction and work correctly.

Upon disassembling I found the factory grease had hardened in many areas around the gears - it was almost like a plastic. I stripped and degreased as best as possible - relubed with a high quality anti-corrosion/anti-water grease from WalMart's automotive section. Works like a charm.

It's so quiet now that I've had to double check that it's spinning. I used to be able to hear it downstairs. Now I can't hear it in the same room. So if anyone is tearing down their box for other needs, I'd suggest replacing the factory grease even if you don't need it, as I can imagine it will prolong the life of the motor.

[Jeff Waldron]

When my bowl motor is supposed to start 8/10 times it won't start unless I give the bowl a nudge so I took my motor apart and the grease was thick but the transmission spun freely. I pulled the rotor out and cleaned the shaft it sits on and made sure there was no grease on the stator or the rotor. I didn't regrease the transmission, I just left the existing grease since it was spinning freely, but it still needs the nudge.  any suggestions? I am going to go ahead and take it apart again, clean all the old grease out and use some fresh bearing grease and see if that makes a difference.  Has anyone found a place to get a replacement motor yet? I think I found them on alibaba.

Thanks,

Jeff

On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 7:16:19 PM UTC-4, Ian Jeffrey wrote:

[Robert Deliën]

> When my bowl motor is supposed to start 8/10 times it won't start unless I give the bowl a nudge

First remove the PU and check if you can drive the bowl manually. It should go rather light. If you need more than a couple of fingers or need to push very hard to get enough grip to drive it, the problem is not with the motor.
Make sure your box is on a completely flat surface and if you’re not using too many shims. Sometimes the base or bowl is just warped, and there’s nothing you can do. It’s often a manufacturing problem: Too close to tolerances and getting worse over the years.

> so I took my motor apart and the grease was thick but the transmission spun freely. I pulled the rotor out and cleaned the shaft it sits on and made sure there was no grease on the stator or the rotor.

The grease is probably cheap, but it’s also water proof and that’s probably what makes is thick. Make sure you check the holes the shafts turn in: They should be nice and round. I had two motors with shafts grinding the holes into slots, allowing the gears to be pushed out of mesh in one direction.

> I didn't regrease the transmission, I just left the existing grease since it was spinning freely, but it still needs the nudge. any suggestions?

The motor has two coils and it’s direction is controlled by a phase difference of the power on both coils. If one coil is broken or not powered, the motor may vibrate. Under light loads, momentum will carry it over its dead points so it will keep turning, but onder less light loads it will just vibrate.

So check both coils for continuity. If that is OK, the problem may be in the big resistors and/or capacitor on the board, which are used to generate the off-phase power for direction.

> I am going to go ahead and take it apart again, clean all the old grease out and use some fresh bearing grease and see if that makes a difference. Has anyone found a place to get a replacement motor yet? I think I found them on alibaba.

The motors are custom specified for the box. The manufacturer makes many similar motors resembling them, but as far as I know they are not sold with identical specification. Though that might have changed.

But even though not identical, it can still fix your box. Or it can be a good donor for coils, gears or shafts to fix your broken motor.