Bug in the "save as...."

[Lab Fribourg]

I observed a bug in the new Cartool 3.50 version. The option "save
as...." in the File menu don't work properly. When I open a eeg file
(.nsr or .bdf) and I want to save it though "save as...." by changing
the name, no error message appears but no file is created on my hard
drive !! The result is the same if I change the file format (as Evoked
Potential File or something else).

[Denis]

Here is a summary of how things work in Cartool:

• The New/Save/Save As commands are actually quite restricted:
• New can only be done on .lm and .is matrices, and even these behaviors are quite historical remnants, you should rather use the utilities found in the Tools menu.
• Save/Save As commands work only on .xyz .els .spi .sxyz .fld .hdr/.img .is .ep .eph files, and basically just make a copy of the current file.

• Use the Tools menu instead and according to your goal:
• Export Tracks, to save, convert or re-process EEG files (choose the file format from a list);
• File Calculator to compute the results of inverse solution;
• MRIs Downsampling or MRIs Normalization or MRIs Brain Segmentation to process MRI files (Analyze);
• etc...
  

There are many reasons for this behavior. Most EEG file formats are proprietary (can read, can't legally write), sometime the format is not publicly and consistently available, very often there are no libraries to access the files, and nearly all the time these file formats are horrendously cryptic.
So Cartool does not offer to save the raw EEG files into their original formats, but offers the conversion route instead. Also, the ratio usefulness / time spent to implement seems quite low to me.

Another reason is more philosophical. Cartool is more task oriented (want to do some analysis?) than file oriented (well, you can still look to a single file...). And any analysis involves far more than a single file at a time, so the File menu does not really help and has been progressively abandonned...

Denis

PS1: I just made an update in Cartool (2084) so that the user is warned when trying to New/Save/Save As files with unsupported file types. At least to make things clearer.

PS2: If you really have to save your EEG files to send to somebody else, use the .sef format (Cartool format, very easy to read) or the Brainvision .eeg format, which is very good. Otherwise try the text format (.ep or .eph), and only on last resort, use the .edf file format, which should be avoided as much as possible.

PS3: You can't either Save/Save As an EEG file to a different format.

[morteza nokhostin]

I recently download CARTOOL, but my EEG machine produced raw format
which not recognised by software. the extention is ".eeg" but my
amplifier is a creative instrument not alike a familliar one(eg ,
brain vision, neuromed...). whould i do work with cartool?

On 8/25/11, Denis <Cartool-...@unige.ch> wrote:
> Here is a summary of how things work in Cartool:
>

> - The *New/Save/Save As* commands are actually quite restricted:
> - *New* can only be done on *.lm* and *.is* matrices, and even these

> behaviors are quite historical remnants, you should rather use the
> utilities

> found in the *Tools* menu.
> - *Save/Save As* commands work only on *.xyz .els .spi .sxyz .fld
> .hdr/.img .is .ep .eph* files, and basically just make a copy of the
> current file.
>
>
> - Use the *Tools* menu instead and according to your goal:
> - *Export Tracks*, to save, convert or re-process EEG files (choose

> the file format from a list);

> - *File Calculator* to compute the results of inverse solution;
> - *MRIs Downsampling* or *MRIs Normalization* or *MRIs Brain
> Segmentation* to process MRI files (Analyze);
> - etc...

>
>
> There are many reasons for this behavior. Most EEG file formats are
> proprietary (can read, can't legally write), sometime the format is not
> publicly and consistently available, very often there are no libraries to
> access the files, and nearly all the time these file formats are
> horrendously cryptic.
> So Cartool does not offer to save the raw EEG files into their original
> formats, but offers the conversion route instead. Also, the ratio usefulness
> / time spent to implement seems quite low to me.
>
> Another reason is more philosophical. Cartool is more task oriented (want to
> do some analysis?) than file oriented (well, you can still look to a single
> file...). And any analysis involves far more than a single file at a time,

> so the *File* menu does not really help and has been progressively

> abandonned...
>
> Denis
>
> PS1: I just made an update in Cartool (2084) so that the user is warned when
> trying to New/Save/Save As files with unsupported file types. At least to
> make things clearer.
>
> PS2: If you really have to save your EEG files to send to somebody else, use

> the *.sef* format (Cartool format, very easy to read) or the Brainvision *
> .eeg* format, which is very good. Otherwise try the text format (*.ep* or *
> .eph*), and only on last resort, use the *.edf* file format, which should be

> avoided as much as possible.
>
> PS3: You can't either Save/Save As an EEG file to a different format.
>

> --
> This is a message sent from the Cartool Community group
> cartoolcommunity.unige.ch
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to
> cartool+u...@googlegroups.com
>
> Please note: unsuscribing from the group also unsuscribes you from the
> Cartool registration and download of Cartool.. if you just want to set how
> you receive messages, go to: groups.google.com/group/cartool/subscribe
>

[Denis]

(looks OT)
Well, if it is not listed in the files that Cartool can open... it won't open!
You will need at some point to convert the files into a readable format, like BrainVision (good), EDF (quite bad), text files (easy but big), or the.sef format from Cartool which is quite easy to read/write.
Denis

[morteza nokhostin]

Dear dr Brunet
How do i convert my eeg file to standard asc. or sef. file, if
CARTOOL do not open my file? Is there software for that process?
thanks
morteza