Hello!

[Chris Roberts]

Is anybody out there?

Having gone to EMF Camp last weekend, I found someone interested in a Kent based hackspace.  A proper one, not the crazy desk share stuff people keep coming up with.  

I'm going to point him at this list.  

There is hope yet ! (?)

Chris Roberts
~
http://naxxfish.eu/

No trees were killed to send this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

[Chris Roberts]

On 4 September 2012 21:57, Chris Roberts <ch...@naxxfish.eu> wrote:

Is anybody out there?

Having gone to EMF Camp last weekend, I found someone interested in a Kent based hackspace.  A proper one, not the crazy desk share stuff people keep coming up with.  

I'm going to point him at this list.  

There is hope yet ! (?)

Oh also (sorry to double post!): got some top tips from Domanic from Nottinghack, as well as other general observations from other people at the camp

* Have bigass signs when you meet, so that people know where to do (directions of "the geeky ones with stuff" isn't clear enough)

* Meet somewhere really central and obvious (Bottle Shop does fit the bill), but also big enough to accommodate a good few people (with seating to match)

* Provide some facilities - copious power, internet is always nice too (though not 100% required).  

* Encourage groups of people to turn up, not just individuals

* Actually do some marketing!  Fliers do actually help quite a lot. As does getting it in various local media outlets. (Publicity stunts a-gogo - sounds like a good project actually!)

* Integrate with other local events and things - don't clash with them,  and cross promote. Digibury is a good target ... 

* Be open, but don't overshare. People don't always care about the minutiae, as long as it's documented and available.  

Is there anyone left on this list interested in getting things started again?

 

[Edd Barrett]

On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 10:23:36PM +0100, Chris Roberts wrote:
> Is there anyone left on this list interested in getting things started
> again?

I am open to the idea of a hackspace in Canterbury.

--
Best Regards
Edd Barrett

http://www.theunixzoo.co.uk

[Edmond Lepedus]

I intend to set one up over the next few months, as I'm starting a
degree at Kent this year, and will be spending more time in
Canterbury.

In the meantime, do come see us at Prototype Makerspace in Medway.
There is always someone there on a Wednesday evening, and if that's
not convenient drop us a line and we'll sort something out. Our
website is www.icmp.org.uk , and we have a google group, as well as a
social media presence in all the usual places.

Some of us will be at the Brighton mini maker faire this weekend, and
we are hosting an all-day hackathon the following Sunday (16th).

Failing that, I will be in Canterbury fairly often from the 18th
onwards, so get in touch :)

-ed

Sent from my iPhone

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
> To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hacks...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.
>

[Andrew Cassidy]

I'm up for resurrecting Canterbury Hackspace, but with more skepticism then before seeing as attendance went from 20 to averaging less than 3 very quickly.

I will also offer limited corporate sponsorship, but at this stage it will be very limited.

--
Andrew Cassidy BSc (Hons) MBCS

http://www.jonisdumb.com/

[henry cox]

Chris
There's a few of us here at Medway interested in Mesh Networking, which I know you've been involved in....how about coming up to ICMP Chatham.
...Andy, you're welcome, too....whatever happened to the router-pbx-asterisk server you were doing?... we're here most.wednesday evenings - be good to see you -let us know

http://www.icmp.org.uk/

Aitch
-------------------------------

[Andrew Cassidy]

Hi Aitch,

Yeah that was stemming from a small project Chris and I started in 2008. It worked well, too.

However Bob pointed out a similar, more popular movement at freenum.org which already has thousands of users and is compatible with a wider range of software and devices. As we'd have had to pay running costs for our service and freenum is free, we shut ours down in favour of freenum.

I am also part way through building a commercial PBX appliance based on FreeSWITCH which will be rather flexible when finished. It supports freenum out of the box, but currently doesn't support inbound calls from providers that require registration and not all features are there yet.

I'm also currently working freelance, so if anyone knows of anyone willing to pay me for a VoIP phone system (or diagnostics) let me know!

[Andrew Cassidy]

So, is this going anywhere?

[Edmond Lepedus]

Yep ;)

Just give me till the end of the month to figure out my timetable and get settled into uni life :P

I had a look at the 1click orgs link, but I couldn't figure out how to sign up for a login... Do I need an invite?

Sent from my iPad

[Dominic from Nottingham UK]

How's it all going? I'd say you don't need to wait for Edmond to come to the University (no offence Edmond) if you make a Hackspace around one persons schedual it's not going to work. I am really looking forward to visiting you guys in the future. I'll be keeping an eye on your list.

 

Dominic

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
Andrew Cassidy BSc (Hons) MBCS

http://www.jonisdumb.com/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Greg Miell]

Hey everyone!

Apologies for the radio silence, I'm also still definitely up for getting a space sorted.

What are we thinking in terms of initial funding, an actual space, getting people interested and involved, potential marketing, etc?

Sorry if some of these have been answered already!

Greg

---
Greg Miell (MBCS)
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/canterbury-hackspace/-/8LLDdw6JE88J.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hacks...@googlegroups.com.

[Ed Lepedus]

Hi all,

I too must apologise for radio silence - I've only just realised that the end of the month has come and gone without an update. I'm still trying to fully map out the time requirements of university and how that fits in with my existing family and hackspace commitments, so I don't promise something I can't deliver. 

However, Dominic is absolutely right in saying you don't have to wait for me. If someone is able and willing to take the reins on this and get the ball rolling I would gladly help in any way I can.

Getting down to the more specific points raised, we can certainly start fleshing out some ideas right away :)

Initial funding:

Traditionally, hackspaces have lacked any formal funding structure in favour of each member doing and giving what they can. In my experience and opinion, this approach is to be avoided unless one or more of us possess overflowing coffers, as it will severely limit the usefulness and viability of the space. 

Our main options are therefore the donation model or some form of social enterprise. Prototype has been fairly successful using the former, but this is almost completely due to our space being donated by the Innovation Centre (and therefore the council). This means that unless we can find a similar arrangement, we would require either a very large number of members or significantly higher membership fees. 

The third option is one that I find particularly appealing as it would give the space a much higher degree of independence and sustainability. However, it would also be the riskiest by far, as there would be legal and financial liabilities to be considered, and a viable business model would have to be devised. In this case the initial funding would probably be a combination of grants and member contributions.

The Space:

Based on our experience with the Medway Innovation Centre, its Canterbury counterpart would be an obvious candidate for a venue. It is ideally situated within close proximity to a large university campus, and our contacts in Medway would probably be able to at least get us an audience with the management. However, if I remember correctly, the Canterbury centre is managed by a commercial contractor, so it will probably be much more difficult to obtain the same concessions that Medway affords Prototype. 

Failing that, we would have to explore commercial warehousing, or partnerships with local businesses.

The People:

One advantage that Canterbury has over Medway is its much larger student population. If we can secure premises that are easily accessible to students, we should be able to attract a much greater community, much more quickly than Prototype has. One particularly interesting avenue would be to collaborate with like-minded student societies and maybe even university departments. Of course, this does not mean that we should ignore the more "mature" segments, and from what I hear Canterbury already has quite a thriving geek/tech scene, as well as a number of technology businesses who might provide more members.

Marketing:

Given the fairly close-knit communities, we should be able to achieve quite a lot with just word-of-mouth (and word-of-blog/twitter etc) marketing, but depending on finances, man(and woman) hours and contacts available we would augment that with various campaigns and events of various sizes and regularity.

That's me all typed out for now, but I hope it gets the ball rolling, and I look forward to reading your replies.

-ed

[Andrew Cassidy]

I'm more than happy to look at it from business/money perspective at look at the funds. Personally I like the member subscription model, but I can see where the downfalls of that are too. I'd like to stay away from sponsorship in case they see it as a form of cheap labour. I'm also not the only one of the original founding team to have run a successful business.

The legal and liability side of things are also fairly easy to deal with. OneClickOrgs does half of that for us, for a start. 

Canterbury Innovation Centre is £lol. a 100sqft office is in excess of £300/month excluding VAT, electricity, phone, and internet and unless we somehow wangled one of the workshops at the back, you need an RFID key fob to get into the corridoors. However, empty ones don't stay empty long. Whilst I know the centre manager, they're unlikely to be able to move on it as it's part of a much bigger chain. The company that runs it is Basepoint. We looked at a few other options before, including buying an shipping container! Unfortunately a lot of Canterbury is quite expensive.

Grants, if anyone knows of any, let us know. 

Once we actually get a space, we'd need insurance, too.

With regards to the geek scene, I founded and ran Kent NetGames for their first year, but Fish's TinkerSoc seemed to start this all off, then Hackspace, then everybody else decided to start their own movements for programming, etc.

It's going to be even more difficult to rely on the founding members than last time we tried this as I now have a Son and no longer work in Canterbury and Fish works in London. 

On 1 October 2012 21:14, Ed Lepedus <ed.le...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I too must apologise for radio silence - I've only just realised that the end of the month has come and gone without an update. I'm still trying to fully map out the time requirements of university and how that fits in with my existing family and hackspace commitments, so I don't promise something I can't deliver. 

However, Dominic is absolutely right in saying you don't have to wait for me. If someone is able and willing to take the reins on this and get the ball rolling I would gladly help in any way I can.

 

[Matthew Prentice]

Just started at UKC doing electronic engineering, I would love to be part of a propper hackerspace, 
I Joined the Tinker Society here at UKC and there was no mention. . .

[Matthew Prentice]

Having only just moved into the area as a new student at UKC, I don't have much of an idea as to what to do for a premisies, however for monetizing the organisation we could follow a similar path to this hackerspace in america (http://hackaday.com/2012/09/21/monetizing-a-hackerspace-with-a-3d-printer-store/) However I think we'd need a broader range of products than just 3D printers. 
I joined the Tinker Society as well as the Game Development society here at UKC so I can look at getting them on board . . . 
Matt

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
Andrew Cassidy BSc (Hons) MBCS

http://www.jonisdumb.com/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/canterbury-hackspace/-/8LLDdw6JE88J.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

[ed]

Sorry for the slow reply (again!, life :[ )

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:14:45 PM UTC+1, Andrew Cassidy wrote:

I'm more than happy to look at it from business/money perspective at look at the funds. Personally I like the member subscription model, but I can see where the downfalls of that are too. I'd like to stay away from sponsorship in case they see it as a form of cheap labour. I'm also not the only one of the original founding team to have run a successful business.

I also think that membership subscriptions should be the mainstay of our income. However, I am very keen to augment that with other sources in order to make the subscription fees more affordable. Ideally, I would like us to be able to keep the membership fees under £10/pm. I completely agree with you about sponsorship, and we would have to consider any such options very carefully.

 

The legal and liability side of things are also fairly easy to deal with. OneClickOrgs does half of that for us, for a start. 

Canterbury Innovation Centre is £lol. a 100sqft office is in excess of £300/month excluding VAT, electricity, phone, and internet and unless we somehow wangled one of the workshops at the back, you need an RFID key fob to get into the corridoors. However, empty ones don't stay empty long. Whilst I know the centre manager, they're unlikely to be able to move on it as it's part of a much bigger chain. The company that runs it is Basepoint. We looked at a few other options before, including buying an shipping container! Unfortunately a lot of Canterbury is quite expensive.

While I agree that the Innovation Centre is expensive, based on my experience in Medway, it also an excellent venue for a fledgeling group as it reduces the number of things you have to worry about (and pay for!) at the very start. The key fobs are actually VERY nice, as we each get our own, which gives us 24/7 access to the building and our room, additional privileges can be added on the fly (e.g. access to other rooms etc) and they can automatically be turned on/off based on membership status. This is one of the facilities that would take us a lot of time/money to implement to a similar standard in another building.

Another vital aspect is location - there's no point having great premises and an amazing price if nobody can get to them, preferably by walking/main public transport routes. Unfortunately, this is one area where I will be of limited use, as I don't know Canterbury at all (yet).

I wonder whether some kind of (business) partnership with Basecamp /Universities/Google/ someone else might help us secure a suitable space...

 

Grants, if anyone knows of any, let us know. 

I think the sort of grants available to us will depend very much on how we structure the organisation. A commercial "startup" in the technology/innovation/entrepreneurship sector should be able to take advantage of quite a few grant schemes, and we might also be able to take advantage of local "regeneration" type schemes etc. A straight-up charitable organisation would probably not be eligible for many of those, but will have other options open to it.

 

Once we actually get a space, we'd need insurance, too.

At Prototype, we are covered by the Innovation Centre's insurance - does the Canterbury one do the same for its tenants?

 

With regards to the geek scene, I founded and ran Kent NetGames for their first year, but Fish's TinkerSoc seemed to start this all off, then Hackspace, then everybody else decided to start their own movements for programming, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, the idea is to take all of those disparate groups and give them a home :) 

It's going to be even more difficult to rely on the founding members than last time we tried this as I now have a Son and no longer work in Canterbury and Fish works in London. 

 I feel your pain, as I too have a daughter, and live in Maidstone :(

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
Andrew Cassidy BSc (Hons) MBCS

http://www.jonisdumb.com/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsubscrib...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/canterbury-hackspace/-/8LLDdw6JE88J.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.
To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hackspace+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/canterbury-hackspace?hl=en.

--

[ed]

I like this idea, but I don't want to use our members as cheap labour. 

A mutually beneficial way around that might be to set up a freelance marketplace, where external parties list a job they want done (e.g. fix pc/ set up network etc) and we make it available to our members, who then do the job, get paid and the group gets a share. We could then place any jobs we want done for the group in that system :)

This could also provide an added incentive for members to join.

-ed

[Greg Miell]

Just a thought (haven't read the last two emails properly, just skimmed as am working), but could we approach Fruitworks (http://fruitworks.co) for some (temporary) space, albeit without much storage, but we could maybe do an evening per week / odd-week / month? I know Liam well and rent  hotdesking space here already :)

Greg

---
Greg Miell

Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Canterbury Hackspace" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/canterbury-hackspace/-/P72ifTh7YxsJ.

To post to this group, send email to canterbury...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to canterbury-hacks...@googlegroups.com.

[Greg Miell]

Also if anyone is up for a drink in the evening sometime (pref after the 18th) to meet / catch up / plan lets arrange something!

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Ed Lepedus]

I think for a hackspace to take off in any real way, it would need it's own space with 24/7 access. A collaboration with Fruitworks might work for a very short term while we figure out a way forward, but it is not the sort of place where we would have the flexibility that a hackspace needs. However, if Liam wanted to help us out, I'm sure there are lots of ways in which he could contribute to our efforts :)

Ed

[Andrew Cassidy]

We used to meet at a specialist beer shop, no charge for using the venue and lots of tasty beer to sample :)

[Greg Miell]

Yup, was great, though it also led to very little actually getting hacked :P, no elec (geeks drink electricity!) and lots of distraction (in liquid form).

Ed,

I completely understand that we need a permanent space, however through the past experience of not getting anywhere with no space and trying to get people excited, maybe a temporary space while we look for a more permanent home may be a plan? (even if it's 10 people at £10 a month, it's a better start (money wise) than we had before!).

I will see if I can speak to Liam tomorrow, though my initial thoughts are that it will be a space only convo.

I've been looking around at commercial properties in Canterbury, they are very rare (small size ones anyways) and quite expensive :(

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Greg Miell]

Oooh, also Canterbury City Council are moving in the startup / new business area, may be worth approaching them sometime soon...

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie Dale]

Actually, that reminds me.. I used to work for them.

Now (many will cringe at this) they have many closed down public conveniences scattered around that they're no longer willing to fund / service. There is one at the junction of Knotts lane / Kings st which has been closed down for years.

Now, if a hackerspace group were to form a small charitable trust, it may be eligible for a grant to fund the conversion of the 'innards' into a usable workshop for a hackerspace. CCC will not reopen these conveniences because hiring a cleaner is far too costly along with the cost of someone to open / close them daily so they may well feel generous enough to donate the use of it or another such disused building (no idea about council tax issues). Heck I've no idea if the coach park building is still there but that used to have a lovely coach drivers lounge that would be ideal (this is the old coach park opposite serco). Bit dark and gloomy in there but at least it has windows!

If playing your cards right and trying to entice students to join via leaflets, the local supermarkets might care to donate a few quid towards the project in return for their brand being published on the leaflet..

JD

[Greg Miell]

Sounds like quite a good plan... In fact they should really be recycling these buildings, or let others help :P

I may give them a call today and speak to someone / see if I can arrange a meeting... Guessing Development Management would be the best office?

Greg

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie Dale]

No idea but the council switchboard would know. My guess would be the environmental dept to be honest.

Yes they should be doing more with these places hence the idea for the toilet block because they're never going to use them for anything else. As I say though, no idea how they'd want to square it for rent or council tax etc but if a hackspace were to be setup as a charity i'm sure grants would be available from many places. Not only that it would generate a bit of interest in the media that a community project is opening up and making use of such a building. More attention = more members.

JD

[Greg Miell]

I've spoken to the council, both Planning and Estates, the latter of which is going to take a look for us!

The property at the end of Kings Mile has been sold off to a property development company who have permission to demolish and build 11 flats on the site. The coach park property is due to / has been demolished ready for re-development :(

They did however say they would ask around for us for any properties the council is not currently using and did offer some advice re reduced rent / no rent leasing from the council. Unfortunately any property leased in this way would be considered temporary and could be re-claimed by the council easily, which could hamper any long-term plans.

Spoke to James Ross today (james.ross@canterbury.gov.uk) who was very helpful and asked for some more info on what we are trying to achieve and any specs we have for floorspace, site facilities, etc. Any pointers before I email him?

It may also be worth engaging CCC business team around grants, loans, rates etc :-)

Greg

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie Dale]

Hi Greg,

There isn't much I can tell you about the way they deal with their properties other than they board them up and abandon then until they suddenly become an issue again in the future.

What I can say is that CCC are generally (as councils go) friendlier to the public / events / projects than a lot of other councils who simply enjoy waging war. If CCC genuinely think they can assist and can find a way to do it legitimately without any cost to the tax payer the odds are probably elevated in your favour in comparison to most councils. They like to promote themselves as a customer friendly council so I'm pretty sure that they'll give it genuine consideration and may well invite you in to discuss your proposals. If they do, please draw up some paperwork with your ideas / proposals / how it would benefit them / the community as they are a council that like to tick boxes on forms. If you can demonstrate on paper that they would have a good business case to assist with this then they're more likely to help. You might want to consider things such as being able to use your DIY skills to bring a building of disrepair into good condition etc. While they won't expect anything like the standards their contractors would work to, it will on paper be a good thing for them.

Also while they could in theory evict you from a property, CCC are a lot less aggressive than many councils. They are usually supportive of good causes and will listen to reason. While I'm not going to say "Once you're in don't worry", they do generally play fairer than many authorities. The wheels and gears at CCC can also turn quite slowly sometimes so they would almost certainly give you a few months notice. Additionally, once you're in you'd be able to use the media to help find another home / 'convince' CCC to back track should they ever ask the group to leave.

No name dropping though, don't even mention that the idea came from ex-staff because they don't like that kind of thing.

JD

[Greg Miell]

Good advice, definitely won't mention any names! I will email them shortly.

Does anyone have any ideas on floorspace requirements? 

Greg

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie Dale]

For floorspace you will need at least space for 5-6 desks plus walkaround space.

Plenty of power points too.

[Edmond Lepedus]

As far as floor space is concerned, the more the better - we can always find a use for it. Other nice touches would be kitchen and bathroom facilities, and a location where we don't have to worry too much about disturbing neighbours etc. Plenty of power would help, but we can probably upgrade whatever there is to suit us. Good Internet is essential, and some outdoor space would be nice too.

Obviously, if the only thing we can get is 300 sq ft office space, we'll take it, but having more facilities will enable us to support more activities and attract more members etc.

Sent from my iPad

[Jamie Dale]

As far as internet is concerned, 3G routers are feasable in my eyes as it would save on phone line and connection charges that the group has no funds for. Plus should the group have to move quickly to another premises there is minimal hassle. Lets face it for a hackspace that will mostly be researching / developing etc we wouldn't need the fastest internet just enough to access the web and the occassional download. I would also imagine that many people will have their own 3G / netbooks etc anyway.

Agreed that a small kitchenette would be good and a toilet would be nice.

[Edmond Lepedus]

I'm completely the other side of the fence as far as Internet is concerned - 20mb cable would be a bare minimum. 3G is a non starter, and would seriously limit the sort of activities and projects we can undertake, as well as cost us a fortune for a patchy service. 

A kitchenette would be a reasonable start, but a proper kitchen with cooking facilities would be far better, as it will allow people to spend more time at the space without having to pay for takeaways etc, and might even encourage some culinary hacking :P

An easily accessible toilet would be a bare minimum, and there is at least one good argument in favour of having a shower cubicle for those long hacking sessions ;)

Sent from my iPad

[Jamie Dale]

The problem there is that you'll be hard pressed to find a place with that and the money to afford it unless you're footing the bill yourself. Are you able to do that? If so, great! If not, lets stick to floor space.

Why would you need 20MB to look at webpages? A hackspace internet connection isn't going to be used for p2p and illegal downloads is it. The odd driver or bit of software like the arduino ide yes but the rest would be webages etc. I find most people who want fast connections are usually either file sharing or spending all day on youtube etc. Also if you have a connection that is too brilliant, it wll enourage misuse. Have a connection that is usable and it will ecourage people to use it responsibly.

[Jamie Dale]

Just wanted to also add that CCC places arent all kitted out with showers etc either. Consdering we're asking them for a favour we can't get our hopes up too much.

[Andrew Cassidy]

Right, whilst I'm pleased the list is active again, I'm going to jump into the internet debate straight off.

It's way too early to start thinking about that. Before we can do anything we need money, for which we need members, for which we need to (most importantly) we need to start having meetings again just as a meet up to discuss project ideas, etc. Properties available now might not be available once we're in a position to get somewhere, so discussing such trivial specifics seems counter productive.

Besides, there's no cable in Canterbury, only partial FTTC coverage, and ADSL quality varies greatly. Some parts are lucky to see 2Mbps.

What are you expecting to use the internet for in a hackspace? For me it's research and getting data sheets, and I used to manage just fine with a 56k modem.

In my opinion our top priority should be meetings, investigating grants, and building our potential member base. I'm more than happy to bring a breadboarding selection and arduino to a meeting.

On 14 Oct 2012 17:21, "Edmond Lepedus" <ed.le...@googlemail.com> wrote:

[Greg Miell]

I think we need to budget a bit to begin with, it may be that we outgrow a space, which is better than not being able to keep up with rent & bills.

Yes Andy I agree, maybe I can ask Liam if we can nab Fruitworks for an evening or two? However it seems chicken and egg here, very few wanted to put money into a space that didn't exist :(

I have 3g with my phone and built into my laptop, I am pretty happy to survive on that / share when I'm about, I think that should be a secondary concern to space, members, marketing, etc.

I have set up a meeting planner at http://doodle.com/spdkf79zzy3vprcu#table lets try and all get together and get balls rolling :)

Greg

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie Dale]

Problem there Andy is that (as previously) due to the lack of employment I can't get to any meetings as I'm not even in Canterbury so I can only really contribute to the group by email with ideas, thoughts etc.

I also agree that the internet connection isn't a massive issue. As mentioned, if it means that much to others they can always bring their own 3G connection. I don't really see why you'd need a 20MB connection for looking at technical pages etc.

I'm certainly interested in seeing some of your arduino things but until I can get the wheels on the road..

Do we have any progress on the CCC side of things?

[Andrew Cassidy]

Or I could just have given you access to the hackspace Google calendar...

[Greg Miell]

Re CCC: No, unfortunately I didn't get to email my contact there as work is incredibly full on and I didn't have any ideas around floorspace size etc. I will be contacting him on Monday.

We have a google calendar? Damn we're (dis)organised :P

It's difficult to get the balance right throughout here, I think we do need some form of meeting, even if we skype someone during each meeting, just so we can get to know each other and keep momentum going.

Sorry if you've said before Jamie, but where are you based? (Brain like a sieve here!)

Greg

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk 07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Andrew Cassidy]

That because no-one's asked if we already have anything ;)

We have a tumblr blog, facebook group, and so on too.

[Greg Miell]

Unfortunately we need to get this kinda thing out there so people don't need to ask :P I think the meeting scheduler will help us actually decide on a date if everyone can add their availability.

Do we have a website on which we can link to everything we have?

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Andrew Cassidy]

The aclendar might have been lesser known because Gogole have changed the permissions settings. Need to wait for them to propagate.

On 14 October 2012 18:32, Andrew Cassidy <an...@bytz.co.uk> wrote:

[Jamie Dale]

As I understood it, the google group was our site?

[Andrew Cassidy]

http://canterbury.hackspace.org.uk/

yep, we're registered with the hackspace foundation too.

[Jamie Dale]

That explains how people like Dominic from Nottingham UK manage to find our email list then!

[Andrew Cassidy]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Canterbury-Hackspace/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/canterburyhackspace/

There's also a thread in the group with peoples twitter usernames and so on.

[Andrew Cassidy]

Oh, and there's #canterburyhackspace on irc.freenode.net

[Ed Lepedus]

I like that Doodle calendar thing - very handy :)

As far as the internet/spaces/general amenities conversation goes, I think it is important that we keep thinking about what our ideal space would be like, so that we have something to look forward to/ work towards - even if it is years away. 

As far as the internet side of things, we have found that a good and reliable internet connection at Prototype has come in handy for everything from hosting websites, downloading linux discs for the hackspace machines, streaming video, online gaming and a miriad other things. I am personally aware of at least a handful of instances when people have come in to download a large file (GW2 beta :)) and ended up working on new projects etc. Yes, we can make do without internet, but having a good connection will give everyone more options and help build the community. It will probably be ok in the short term but it will get old very quickly, IMO.

[Jamie]

But why would we be streaming video and playing games at a hackspace?

Personally I think you're taking the internet connection too seriously at the moment. Sure, in the future we might want to look at it but at the moment we just need to concentrate our efforts on finding somewhere to host a Hackspace. We don't need to be worrying about gaming and youtube (which was what I suspected you were concerned about earlier). I think to be honest, if we ever get that far with the HS then at that point, gaming, streaming and dropping in purely to download large files should be banned.

It's looking like HS may be going in the charity direction and frankly if we start allowing gaming I think the quality of the project will go down hill rapidly with people just wanting to dos instead of doing anything productive. I speak from experience, I'm addicted to my computer and have a cupboard full of electronic components that I've never done anything with. Thats why to me, a hackspace that is serious and free from distraction, is important.

I'm sorry Ed but I think you have your priorities all wrong but as mentioned, i think people will always be welcome to provide their own 3G.

[Ed Lepedus]

The priority is boots on the ground. If that means allowing people to come in and play some games together, or watch some videos then, so be it - I'm not in the business of judging what people do, and some light-hearted fun could go a long way to promoting group cohesion and preventing us from becoming (or being seen as) elitist, judgemental and exclusive. Remember that there is more than one way to contribute to a group and a project and often just being there is enough to make the difference between something getting off the ground or not.

There is a fine balance to be had, regardless of how the project is funded.

[Andrew Cassidy]

Besides, at least 2 people on this list run web hosting companies.

[Greg Miell]

Lets worry about an internet connection when we have a space to install it into and enough members to be able to afford it, unfortunately we're probably not going to land a  space with a pre-existing internet connection. No one here is being elitist, we're trying to balance between what we'd like and what is possible in the position we're currently in.

I can't really share on a public email list, however I did have some interesting discussions with Liam @ Fruitworks last week, however these would best be bought up at a meeting with Liam there too!

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie]

I whole heartedly agree that we need to be a fun group that encourages people however I think that gaming and streaming video services to joe public is the wrong way about it. How do you justify the bandwidth sharing (and noise) to someone who is working on their project and trying to get their head around the theory of it when they can't even use the internet because of a high bandwidth game or hear themselves think due to the noise? Additionally, encouraging gaming may get us the attention of thieves who believe that the property has valuable gaming equipment etc. We don't want vandalism, theft and damaged property.

Many moons ago, men used to love railways and other big engineering projects. These days being able to build electronics and program things is the in thing and that's what we need to promote and attract people with - the opportunity to get into this 'cool' technology. That will attract the right people and naturally filter out any potential trouble makers.

Sorry if I sound a bit skeptical about the crime aspect but I've lived in some dodgy areas and seen things like this happen. Canterbury attracts people from all walks of life so we must be smart and forward thinking.

[Jamie]

What is fruitworks?

[Greg Miell]

http://fruitworks.co - Co-working space in Canterbury

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie]

I agree, it's something for the future. For now we just need to find somewhere for you guys to get it started and off the ground.

[Greg Miell]

Yup, I just wanna be able to go somewhere to build & hack my latest electronics project and meet with people and talk tech over cups of tea tbh... Maybe do some coding too...

---
Greg Miell
Web Consultant and Developer

Tango November Kilo Delta Limited

tnkd.net / greg-net.co.uk
07402 127 259 / 0330 088 1585

[Jamie]

Exactly my POV too.