Path from CTC to CEC

[Mark Spitzer]

I've read the differences in requirements between CTC and CEC.  When I look at the CEC application it looks very similar to the CTC application.  Is the path different for those that already have a CTC (i.e. different application or different evaluation)?  Curious to understand this better and get started down this path.

Thanks in advance,

Mark Spitzer, CTC

[Anja Stiedl]

Hi Mark,

Great to hear that you plan to go that next step! 

The path, the journey is the same… also for CTCs… except that you bring in your experience from the CTC application :) 

Best regards 

Anja

 

 

Anja Stiedl

m o c c a s o f t

sti...@moccasoft.com

www.moccasoft.com

Buchenweg 2 . 86573 Obergriesbach

Tel 08251 - 88 54 67

Mob 0157 3773 1801

On 17. Jul 2022, at 18:33, Mark Spitzer <ma...@spitzercoaching.com> wrote:

I've read the differences in requirements between CTC and CEC.  When I look at the CEC application it looks very similar to the CTC application.  Is the path different for those that already have a CTC (i.e. different application or different evaluation)?  Curious to understand this better and get started down this path.

Thanks in advance,

Mark Spitzer, CTC

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[Lucia Baldelli]

Hi Mark,

there used to be a simplified CTC to CEC path but it was shut down because there were barely any applicants. 

Regards,

Lucia

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/candidate-cec/F5C88086-6367-4BEC-8619-DEB4CDA9DCA8%40gmail.com.

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Lucia Baldelli MCC

Director at Coaching Outside the Box

www.coachingoutsidethebox.net

[SAIF AHMED]

As I know there are many more CTCs now and they would like to go pursue CEC as their next step. So can it be re-open again?

Path from CTC to CEC?

Saif

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 17, 2022, at 12:48 PM, Lucia Baldelli <lucia.b...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/candidate-cec/CAJn6xUgMWYdpXV5ZDNqqMPdx7HzirQ1Rrf14b_tXcX%2BLLBkK0w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Lucia Baldelli]

Hi Saif, 

definitely something we can discuss with Scrum Alliance and the review teams. 

Thanks, 

Lucia

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/candidate-cec/BE7A61DD-5991-494B-8E06-692859840E45%40gmail.com.

[Vernon Stinebaker]

I don't think it will be reopened. Besides not being used very often, as Lucia noted, there were challenges in the cases where it was used. (I offer this both as someone who was deeply involved in the creation of the program and participated in the reviews as we tested the program), so the program wasn't meeting expectations not only due to low volume, but also limitations of the approach itself. After evaluating the program we -- the Program Improvement Team (PIT) members who created the program, in collaboration with the Scrum Alliance team members focused on coaching -- decided to discontinue the program. 

As with other CEC candidates, CTCs can use either the regular applicant path or the nomination path to apply as CECs. These programs have proven successful, and provide a couple of options for candidates to apply as CEC candidates.

Hopefully as a CTC you are becoming more engaged with the Certified Agile Coach (CAC) community and through collaboration with others may have more opportunity to be nominated by a CEC after they've determined your skills and competence as a CEC. For those who don't have the opportunity, the regular application path is applicable.

Thanks,

Vernon Stinebaker 

CEC, CTC, CST,  CEC and CTC Review Team Member, former PIT member 

[Vernon Stinebaker]

I wanted to further respond to Mark's question.

Actually, Part I of the regular path application should be exactly the same in terms of the questions ask (I was part of the team that worked on these application revisions), however although the application is the same the evaluation criteria for the CTC and CEC are different. For example, as reflected in the Summary of Expectations we expect that a CTC is be knowledgeable of and able to apply at least one coaching framework while a CEC is expected to be knowledgable of and skilled at applying multiple (at least three) frameworks, also demonstrating their ability to synthesize what they've learned into something fit-for-purpose. Similarly when looking at experience we would expect to see a different levels of engagement with CTCs working with delivery teams through mid-level organizational structures and CECs working more extensively with executive leadership (CxOs) and organizational entities (business units/departments) outside of product delivery. 

So, while the application is the same, the expectations, and therefor the criteria against which the responses are being evaluated, are different.

I hope this provides some insight into how the same application questions can be used to assess candidates with different focus and experience.

Thanks,

Vernon Stinebaker 

CEC, CTC, CST,  CEC and CTC Review Team Member, former PIT member 

[Mark Spitzer]

That's helpful and the type of information I was seeking.  I'll dig into this further to see what further questions I have.  Thanks.

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Mark Spitzer

President, Spitzer Coaching

m. 512.750.2732

spitzercoaching.com

[SAIF AHMED]

Thanks Lucia. 

Thanks Vernon. 

Vernon,

Can you talk about the nomination path for CEC. In terms of how it works and how many had this opportunity so far. 

Reason I asked is I tried but unless you work with the CEC closely meaning not just same company but same Business Unit or org they will probably not know you well enough. At least that’s what I learned when I enquired. I could certainly be wrong. 

Thanks,

Saif 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 18, 2022, at 4:53 AM, Vernon Stinebaker <vernon.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think it will be reopened. Besides not being used very often, as Lucia noted, there were challenges in the cases where it was used. (I offer this both as someone who was deeply involved in the creation of the program and participated in the reviews as we tested the program), so the program wasn't meeting expectations not only due to low volume, but also limitations of the approach itself. After evaluating the program we -- the Program Improvement Team (PIT) members who created the program, in collaboration with the Scrum Alliance team members focused on coaching -- decided to discontinue the program. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/candidate-cec/032136c7-9983-4107-999a-24284ef6fab7n%40googlegroups.com.

[Vernon Stinebaker]

Hi Saif,

The Scrum Alliance intentionally avoids prescribing how the nominating coach and nominee have established the mentoring relationship. There is a clear expectation, however, that the nominating coach is capable of assessing and, as appropriate, working with the nominee build skills to the expected level of competence prior to being nominated. 

While working in the same organization and perhaps the same Business Unit is on possibility, it certainly isn't the only possibility. Mentoring might take place through collaboration that spans different organizations. For example a CAC might have a mentee that works in a different company but they meet (perhaps even virtually) on an ongoing basis learning from one-another (I think even mentor would acknowledge that they often learn as much from their mentees as they contribute to their mentee's learning) and becoming familiar enough with the mentee, over an extended period of time, that they are confident that the mentee has the required competencies at which point they might decide to nominate them. 

While I have yet to nominate anyone as a CEC, I have nominated a number of CTCs. Most of mentees work in other companies, but I've become very familiar with them and their capability, usually through years of collaboration and mentoring, so that I'm comfortable in nominating them.

In my case, all of my mentee relationships are 'pull' relationships. I identify someone whom I believe shows potential and I ask them if they would like to be mentored. Because mentoring is time consuming, and because I personally don't believe there should be any financial entanglements related to the mentoring relationship I turn away anyone who approaches me about being mentored. 

While I don't expect that other coaches follow my approach, I suspect many coaches would turn away anyone cold contacting them asking to become a mentee. Therefore I suspect a more viable path forward would be establishing relationship and rapport with members of the community, without specific expectation of them becoming a mentor, and see where things lead. 

Originally I was considering being entirely transparent and providing some specific numbers to respond to your question, however since this is a public forum and since I don't have permission from the Scrum Alliance to share that information (if you want more specific information I suggest you reach out to them directly and see if they're willing to provide it) I thought I'd provide some more generalized information to respond to your inquiry regarding how broadly the nomination path is being applied. 

Looking at 2022 YTD and 2021 combined, 20% more CECs have passed through the nomination path than the regular application path. Deferrals when coming through the nomination path are also much less common (about 5% for CEC) as one would expect since they're being qualified in advance by the nominating coach. Deferrals when coming through the regular path are a bit above 50%. Hopefully this number continues to come down as candidates participate in the pre-application call and take the feedback offered in that call to heart before prematurely submitting their application.

In case anyone is interested, the CTC statistics are even more favorable in terms of both the quantity and percentage of applications coming through the nomination path.

I have no question that as a candidate CEC it is difficult to find a mentor who might be willing to work with and nominate you, however the numbers are continuing to improve. My suggestion to all candidates is to keep building relationships within the community, continue progressing by actively soliciting feedback, and keep working on the regular application path even as you might be looking for a mentor. Having a clear understanding of the expectations and knowing where your gaps are is a good place to start a conversation with a mentor if you're ultimately fortunate enough to find one.

This is a bit long, but again I hope the community will find it useful.

Thanks,

Vernon Stinebaker 

CEC, CTC, CST,  CEC and CTC Review Team Member, former PIT member 

[SAIF AHMED]

Hi Vernon,

Thanks for taking time and providing very relevant details and numbers. Appreciate it. 

Saif

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:03 AM, Vernon Stinebaker <vernon.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Saif,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/candidate-cec/985569a8-50a1-4f50-9b99-d4567d29f351n%40googlegroups.com.

[venka...@gmail.com]

Hi Saif

I have nominated two coaches(One who worked with me) and the one who interacted with me through the community. The relationship we established took seven years, and it was Organic. Once I spotted a potential, I asked the nominee if "he" would like to become a CTC. 

Then we worked together to go through the steps.

As Vernon rightly mentioned, the relationship between Mentor and Mentee is Organic. It need not come from the same company, but through community, contributions and being a leader in the Agile community space. As a CEC, I expect someone to be a thought leader and inspire people to get nominated. Most of my mentees work in other companies. I've become familiar with them and their capability, usually through years of collaboration and mentoring, so I'm comfortable nominating them.

Venkatesh Rajamani, CTC, CEC & CAL-Educator