canang-l canang on wheel

[Bruce Ganton]

Hi all Cananglers

This is just a reminder that time is running out. I am not a strong
Facebook user but am quite pleased with how the group page is turning
out. June has posted a message outlining instructions which to the
uninitiated will sound more complex than they really are: it is quite
simple to join.

This list will fail to operate when the domain name (canang.ca) expires
on Sept 24th. In the mean time you can continue to use this list for
whatever purpose (although I encourage discussion on the new group
page.) It is designed to be very egalitarian and similar to what you
are used to. Anyone can post (wax eloquent) on any topic they choose
and those who want to may respond. You can also have your email set so
any posts there appear in your email (or on you android blackberry) and
you can respond from there as well I think.

I have reason to believe many newcomers, Anglican laity and clergy,
will quickly join this group. A good thing I am sure as we need new
blood. So don't be surprised to see new faces (literally) when you switch.

Special thanks to June who has continued to assist as a second admin and
give me sound suggestions and input.

Also Special thanks to Michel Gagnon who has recently updated the home
page for www.canang.ca. You may have forgotten, some time ago he did a
bang up job of sprucing up our page and hopefully encourage new
membership. He has now replaced the home page with news about the
change and some helpful instructions for getting there.

I have two questions I am looking for consensus on:

How long should I keep the email subscription list and who, if anyone,
should I respond to information requests? (the email addresses only
make it very difficult in many cases to determine who the actual person
is.) (It also makes it possible to email everyone from my personal
email account in the event of some emergency.)

Secondly, how long should I keep the archive and how available should it
be? As you may remember, every post for the past 9 years is available
on line for those who wish to search it.

Finally, does anyone know how to take down the google groups mirror as
the link will now not function?

--
Bruce Ganton

"God sees our wounds, and sees them not as scars but as honors. . . .
For God holds sin as a sorrow and pain to us. He does not blame us for them."

Julian of Norwich ~ Revelations of Divine Love, Chapter 39, Showing 13

[Alan T Perry]

Hi Bruce,

When the discussion on the future of Canang began I was in Turkey, so
I haven't had a chance to respond yet, but wanted to get in my two
cents' worth before Domesday.

As a non-Facebooker, I have really appreciated that this list has
contined for as long as it has. Obviously activity has been on the
decline for a while, but that seems to be the way of the world.

I want to join others who have expressed gratitude for the time,
effort and expense you have borne over the years in making Canang
available. When the orginal list started by Bob Chandler was removed
from the U Windsor system, you graciously stepped in to keep it
going.

Social media has obviously taken us beyond e-mail lists, just as they
superceded usenet groups. I personally regret that the field is now
being dominated by commercial operations that mine people's personal
information for profit, and which cause so much consternation for
privacy advocates.

But I have appreciated this forum, all the members and the many
stimulating discussions and caring conversations we have had over the
years.

Whether I eventually hold my nose and join Facebook I have yet to
decide. So far no Kool Aid for me, so I won't be able to play in that
sandbox.

So, to Bruce, to Bob, to everyone who has made Canang what it is, and
to all Cananglers, that great cloud of witnesses, sincere thanks and
appreciation.

And best wishes for every blessing.

God bless us, every one.

alan

__________________________________________
The Ven Alan T Perry
a...@AlanTPerry.ca
http://alantperry.blogspot.com
@AlanTPerry

"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice;
in practice there is."
-Jan van de Snepscheut

[Maloney, Linda M]

To me, losing contact with Alan would be one of the biggest calamities associated with the demise of canang. I don't like having the things I share here be broadcast in such a way as to attract trolls, spam, and "targeted" advertising. Call me a troglodyte.
Linda+
________________________________________
From: owner-c...@canang.ca [owner-c...@canang.ca] on behalf of Alan T Perry [a...@alantperry.ca]
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 4:06 PM
To: cana...@canang.ca
Subject: Re: canang-l canang on wheel

[Jean Koning]

Linda:

I really hear what you are saying, and I agree with you, as I do agree also
about losing contact with Alan - and I expect I have already done as Alan
indicates, and held my nose to join Facebook.

I am not at all a fan, for all the reasons you suggest, but I have an idea
that I do make a mark with some people (a number of them are First Peoples
friends) and others who I think may be capable of learning at least a little
bit about what I post there, which is mostly information to do with the
First Peoples.

And it does also keep me in touch with some of my family members from whom I
would otherwise never hear. So I try to use it judiciously (probably naive
of me) and I try mostly to lurk, which keeps me out of trouble with my
family, I have found! But I find it interesting to observe the way some
people use it - and I expect sociologists or others could comment on that.

There's no doubt that young people are "wired" into that way of
communicating, which makes me shudder - but ... what to do?

Blessings,
Jean.



Jean Koning
Peterborough ON
705-743-2270
http://koningskomments.blogspot.com
"I am a Treaty person"

[Bruce Ganton]

Hi Alan,

Good to hear from you. I think I understand your concern as one of my
pet topics to obsess about is privacy on the Internet (kind of an
oxymoron anyways). Many years ago the list was around 120-150 strong,
it is now 48. There used to be almost continuous threads in progress,
some interesting, some not. Now not days, but weeks go my without a peep.

The list has been hosted on a box under my desk (I have a static IP and
can be my own ISP). I am not going to bore you with technical details
about how much work this can involve including checking to see if canang
is on "blacklists" occasionally conversing with other mail admins to
convince them we are not a spam source, and so on. Then there is the
concern about handling power outages, maintain backups in a safe place
(my bank deposit box) and so on.

One option would have been to move it to a hosted site which typically
costs around $5 per month. I had access to one that would incur no
extra cost to me. But our list server (majordomo) is no longer offered
by most hosting sites and the software that maintains and makes the
archive available isn't even available any more. So moving to a hosted
site would, at the least, involve switching to say, "mailman" and
continuing maintenance issues beyond just being a "list owner".

As to the question of privacy, I think that ship sailed a long time
ago. Your browser has been "fingerprinted" and tracked by commercial
interests for a very long time. Try going to:

http://panopticlick.eff.org

and try the test there. Or try using Firefox with the add-on "Collusion
0.27" which tracks and maps who is tracking you, as well as who they are
sharing information with. It has a little audible blip for each one and
it will be constantly going off. Emails on places like Google and Yahoo
are data-mined regularly. Also, emails you "delete" from these
accounts are not actually deleted, only appear to be to you the user.

Looking at the problem from the other end, mostly we do not notice or be
bothered by such things, as offensive as they may be. If you and I were
to sit together with our personal laptops and google the same things we
would get different results - because of what the trackers think they
know about us. As for the canang list, our archive was completely mined
at least three times over the years, once by Russians (although the IP
was in Spain) and our posts are mirrored on google groups. From what I
can see, Facebook, or not, does not change any of the above and Facebook
appears to be no different than what goes on everywhere.

I find many, like myself, reluctant and skeptical, but many others see
Face Book as a promising future. Indeed many, if not most, of our 48
members are also on Face Book now. I decided to hold my nose when
Anglicans moved the altar and I am glad I did. I also decided to hold
my nose when female clergy were discussed and boy am I glad I did. At
70 years of age I can say that "holding one's nose" isn't all that bad
after a lifetime of it and sometimes it works out quite well. If I had
a dollar for every time I decided to "stand apart" (read big ego) I
could have retired rich.

Whatever you may decide personally you need to know you have been a most
valued member and participant over the years. I always looked forward
to your posts and read them intently. Should you continue to boycott
Face Book I will miss you a lot.

Bruce Ganton

[Michel Gagnon]

Hello,

I too am not a Facebook fan, but for different reasons.
–  I like long conversations on a subject. Thunderbird mail and user groups give me a decent structure, web forums do, but I haven't found any Facebook pages that do.
–  I tend to like programming and web page design. You can't really put PHP code on Facebook.

However, I notice that almost all email lists are going dead as the dodo. Even web forums are much less active than they were to be. So at this point, I think it would not make sense to develop a forum like http://forums.mozillazine.org .
Web forums work well when online and allow better structure of conversations, but they don't work as well with mobile computing (too much overhead) and administration is more work. Therefore, I don't think it would make sense to move to a web forum at this point in time.

The Facebook interface is far from perfect, but the most horrible spammers are managed by them. Another advantage is that the Facebook interface is quite decent (I'm told) for mobile devices.


As for the archives and the  Googlegroup repeater, maybe the solution – or lack thereof – lies there!

1. The group is at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/canangrepeater
Right now, only accepted members are allowed in. I don't know if Bruce is the owner; maybe I could clik on "Contact owner" and see who gets the message.

2. The list is currently set up so that only authorized members may post and everyone may consult. It means that as long as no Canang listers don't go and post through Google groups, then there will be no new posts (not even for sex and jackpots abroad) and that the Google group will serve as an archive for the last 9 years's worth of discussions.

3. If Bruce is indeed the Google group owner, he can close the list. It doesn't delete the archives, but puts them away from the public eye.
Personnaly, I don't mind whether we keep the archives or not. And if we keep them, a link from the Facebook group page to the Googlegroup may be all that's needed.


As for privacy of either environments, a bit depends on your own privacy settings and on the use of a good extension such as Adblock Plus (http://adblockplus.org), which prevents you from seeing most publicity. Many years ago, there used to be this joke about html coding: "How do I protect my code from prying eyes? By not publishing the page!" The same can be said of any internet presence: "How can I avoid being tracked? By pulling the plug!"

There are many reasons why Apple, Google and Firefox like to promote their mobile environment. One of them is precisely because it is harder to block publicity on mobile environments than it is on tabletop ones.

Regards,

Michel Gagnon – mga...@mgagnon.net
Saint James the Apostle Anglican Church
Anglican Diocese of Montréal – Diocèse anglican de Montréal
Montréal (Québec, Canada)

 

Le 2013-09-02 15:44, Jean Koning a écrit :

[Jean Koning]

Many thanks for this, Bruce.

I have a sort of understanding of what you are saying here from a kind of
process of osmosis perhaps, thanks to ongoing contact with my children and
grandchildren, so I can only say once again, thank you for your attention to
the work of managing this listserve, for I have enjoyed and appreciated it
very much. May we move into whatever future we are called to with goodwill
and grace!

Blessings,
Jean.



Jean Koning
Peterborough ON
705-743-2270
http://koningskomments.blogspot.com
"I am a Treaty person"
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Ganton
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 5:05 PM
To: cana...@canang.ca
Subject: Re: canang-l canang on wheel

[Elizabeth Kipp]

On 2013-09-02 5:05 PM, Bruce Ganton wrote:
> As to the question of privacy, I think that ship sailed a long time
> ago. Your browser has been "fingerprinted" and tracked by commercial
> interests for a very long time. Try going to:
>
> http://panopticlick.eff.org

Interesting Bruce, I tried the test and I was unique amongst the over 3
million people who have run the test.

That would make me rather traceable perhaps!

But I have been online now for nearly 20 years and a Facebook user about
six years although I did not visit it often. Now I will look most days
probably to see if anybody is writing something that is Anglican in nature.

Thank you again Bruce for getting us converted over. Much appreciated.
My "church" place has become my transcriptions of all the early Church
records mostly for my ancestors but has expanded to look at all Blake
and all Pincombe as a member of the Guild of One Name Studies. It is all
in my signature! I blog mostly daily although take breaks every now and
then. Amazingly 50 people read my blog most days that have registered
with me and more that have not registered. I have had nearly 70,000 hits
on my blog pages.

I set it up as my living memory to help me when I am transcribing these
ancient parish registers and wills. I was looking for something that I
could do for my Church and in that these records are for the most part
Anglican it has become my way. I have thousands of fiche to transcribe
and over a thousand wills that I am working away at. I do not often post
mostly because I am always working away at my chosen "Church" duties.

Best to all. Elizabeth Kipp

--
Elizabeth (Blake) Kipp
BLAKE-one-name-study, PINCOMBE-one-name-study
Guild of One Name Studies #4600
Website: http://www.kipp-blake-families.ca/elizabethmain.htm
Blog: http://kippeeb.blogspot.ca/