Member Cards

[Nathan McNeilly]

Hello all,

My name is Nathan and I am a Summer intern in Salmon Arm, BC. My internship consists of getting the 'Shuswap Makerspace' up and running. A major question that we have come across is member sign-in. We hope to have member cards that people can use to scan when they come into the space. Ideally, when they scan the card, their profile will pop up and it will display things like their payment status and the certifications that they have. On top of that we would like this software to be linked to Wild Apricot. I know its a very specific issue but after reading through a lot of the threads I thought I'd toss it out there. All feedback is appreciated!

Thanks,

Nathan

[K M]

Hey Nathan,

The Kamloops Makerspace has been mucking about with a member built membership tracking and RFID project that has diverted hundreds of hours of skilled (and semi-skilled) volunteering from other things in the space, and never amounted to a tangible solution.

We have finally decided to implement another solution and are moving on to consider other solutions. Wild Apricot is one that one of our former board members pushed pretty hard for, but we decided against it due to the recurring subscription cost. ENTS has had aMember Pro (https://www.amember.com/) up and running for a while for membership tracking, it is a one time purchase php script that is “open source” in that you buy it, and get the source code. This has sparked many debates over the definition of open source at the space, but w/e people can and have modified the source code and shared some solutions in the community. I would encourage you to look into that option before committing to a subscription service that you won’t require the full functionality of. 

ENTS also has aMember Pro connected to their front door RFID, which also announces into an online chat room when people arrive (if it is set by the user to do so). I believe they have it connected to a pop machine with credits stored on the account as well. 

Kamloops Makerspace is going to be giving aMP a try in the near future. I’m heading to Edmonton at the end of the month for some chemistry conferences, I plan to document as much as I can about their system for our use. Kulps and the other members from ENTS were very helpful around this last time I was out. I’m sure they will permit me to share any notes I have here. I will try to put together a document in early June when I’m back.

Also, consider coming to the Kamloops Makerspace with a list of questions one day. You can email dire...@kamloopsmakerspace.com and we can try to set something up. There have been a couple of people associated with the startup project through already.

cheers, kile

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[Darcy Whyte]

I'm not convinced there's much to gain from making your own card access system.

What exact problem are you trying to solve? Reporting? Unpaid members accessing?

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Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace hack613.com | Aviation rubber-power.com

Contact: da...@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)

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[Nathan McNeilly]

We are looking for a way to ensure that payments are being made, that members are only using equipment that they are certified on. We also believe that it would be a good way to stay organized and track how many people use the space. We are open to feedback on this and if you don't think its worth the hassle then maybe we should move forward with a simpler method. How do you track member use of the space?

Nathan 

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 at 7:31:53 AM UTC-7, Darcy Whyte wrote:

I'm not convinced there's much to gain from making your own card access system.

What exact problem are you trying to solve? Reporting? Unpaid members accessing?

--

Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace hack613.com | Aviation rubber-power.com

Contact: darcy@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 2:55 PM Nathan McNeilly <s...@saeds.ca> wrote:

Hello all,

My name is Nathan and I am a Summer intern in Salmon Arm, BC. My internship consists of getting the 'Shuswap Makerspace' up and running. A major question that we have come across is member sign-in. We hope to have member cards that people can use to scan when they come into the space. Ideally, when they scan the card, their profile will pop up and it will display things like their payment status and the certifications that they have. On top of that we would like this software to be linked to Wild Apricot. I know its a very specific issue but after reading through a lot of the threads I thought I'd toss it out there. All feedback is appreciated!

Thanks,

Nathan

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[doug moen]

RFID cards for opening the door are useful once the membership grows to the point where not everybody knows everybody else. At this point, you have less social cohesion, and you will want the ability to quickly remove door access to members who are suspended or terminated for failing to pay membership dues, or for code of conduct violations. (If the membership is small and tight knit, handing out metal door keys can be a viable solution.)

Our RFID system is home brew, but I don't think that's necessarily the right approach for all spaces. You need a volunteer who can initially create the system, and who can also maintain the system, and fix it when either the software or the hardware breaks, and upgrade it to support new requirements. You need to be able to recruit new people to take over this job if previous volunteers become unavailable. It's critical infrastructure, and you could be in a bad position if there is no qualified member available at the time when the homebrew RFID reader stops working.

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[Byron Hynes]

Hi Nathan,

There is a Build-It, Buy-It or don't bother choice here.

There are about one hundred gazillion door control and security systems out there, and many integrators that will sell you one. Of course, they cost money. In addition to that, many maker spaces have... well... makers.... and makers want to make things. Makers often believe that they can build a system for less than they can buy one. Sometimes this is true and sometimes it is not.

In broad terms, our system consists of identical systems on two doors:

• A Parallax RFID reader (The link is digikey, but you can get them lots of places) $60-$80
• A Raspberry Pi (originally a Pi 1, just upgraded the back door so both are Pi 3B) - About $55-80
• A Relay. Best results, surprisingly, from a Grove Relay. - About $4. (Interestingly, trying to save $2 on this isn't worth the time. Make sure the relay triggers on 3.3V)
• An Electric Door Strike. Make sure that you get one that can take DC (one of ours is at 12V, the other at 24V, most new ones can use 12 or 24 or AC. The AC makes the "buzz").
  This will cost you between $250 and $800, depending on model and installation. Get your landlord's approval if you're cutting into a door jamb that you don't own.

The pi runs a Python daemon that was originally written by some members, only one of whom is still peripherally involved. I don't own the code but I've done the latest tweaks to it. It's on our GitHub.

The daemon references a local copy of a SQLite3 database. The data is kept local so that there is no dependency on the LAN or DB/Web servers to unlock the door.

Each member is issued an EM4100 RFID Card. Members who ask nicely can be issued a Key Fob as well. The card is also our member ID card and can be used for discounts at some vendors. We cheap out here. We get the cheapest card we can from AliExpress and pay 10 to 20 cents per card. I have had one or two out of hundreds fail the RFID read, but about 1 in 5 just won't print nicely. A "name brand" card from the likes of DataCard will run closer to $2. We can live with throwing some out. I happen to have an old SP35 Datacard printer. This is long discontinued, but a similar card printer is at least a grand new.  The alternative (used by many big businesses) is to print a label (even a B/W Dymo shipping label) and stick the label onto a card.

The card has a 10-digit hex number that is read by the reader and handed to the pi. The pi looks it up in SqlLite and if it matches an active member, fires the relay to unlock the strike. It then also makes a web call to log it to the member portal database, as well as logging it locally. As an added bonus, a welcome message appears on digital signage with the members' name.

IMPORTANT NOTE: No security person will tell you this is adequate. It can be brute-forced. It could be hijacked (although we don't use the Weigand protocol, so we aren't subject to that hack). In our case, the burglar alarm and alarm code, plus the fact that over 250 people go in and out and all have eyes, are our "second factor".

In the early days (like the first 6.5 years) the sqlite database was maintained by ssh-ing into the pi. This does not scale.

On the other side, we have a fairly complete member portal. The member portal receives automatic IPN notifications from PayPal and is the repository for who is paid, and all the information we need to know about a member,  Now, when we "issue" an ID card, we use the web-based member portal to assign that card to a member. The back-end database (MS SQL) calculates who's card should be active, given their payment status and whether or not they are a "vetted" member (what most people call a "keyholder"). Once a day (more frequently on Tuesdays, our open house night) the database recalculates the local table and a server-side job pushes a file via SAMBA to each Pi and then runs a remote SSH to update the Pi's local table. (We can also trigger this update manually, if we have to push a change.)

One tremendous advantage to this is that there are no favorites being played. I don't have to decide to block Billy-Jane but since I like Mary-Jack I will let her be overdue. If you don't pay, your card times out.

The second point is that now the back end is all in place for access control for individual equipment. 

Since this door setup costs a couple of hundred bucks, we want to keep the per-tool costs lower, using $10 RFID readers and ESP-Based chips. This has proven time consuming and political, plus has the (slightly) more complicated need of correctly interfacing the relay in the "controller" with a contactor or other mechanism. (We don't want to power a mill or lathe directly off 22 ga wire on a 3-dollar relay.) Danger, Will Robinson: if your maker space is subject to electrical codes and city/province inspections, get someone qualified to sign off on how you connect this! (You need, for example, to have a "latching e-stop". My amateur recommendation is to do this in between wall wiring and tool wiring).  

Now, we have skilled people and advanced tools like screwdrivers. So, sure, a member at 2:00 am can defeat this. So we have cameras, and a written policy that states doing so is grounds for membership cancellation.

The member portal database tracks training and qualifications so that each reader can make a decision (using a rule-based engine) on what is needed for that particular tool/function/door to activate. For example, saying "the lathe can only be unlocked by members over 18 years of age" or "the supply room door only opens for directors and members who restock the pop fridge" requires no new code changes.

Some parts of this could be replaced by off-the-shelf components, but I would absolutely only use a door controller that we could push valid data too. An Elk M1-G would likely do most or all of what we need for both security panel and door control, but we want to maintain card compatibility with the other uses.

Enhancements to come:

• Scan your card on a bill reader to pay something in cash (kind of stalled)
• Scan your card to print a name tag (halfway done)
• Scan to unlock the pop fridge (not started)
• Require a PIN as well as a card if you are the first one in or it is after, say, 9 pm (idea, not started)

Now that we have all of this, it would be really brutal to not have it.

Byron

Byron Hynes

I'm one of the volunteer directors of Calgary Protospace Ltd.

Protospace is Calgary's original, community-based, member-driven maker space, offering access to work shop space and shared tools for your projects, in a community of passionate, knowledgeable individuals. More contact info for Protospace is here.

 

Join and make something!

[Byron Hynes]

Kile,

I would like to throw out that volunteers are not interchangeable. Volunteers, unlike employees, work on what they WANT to work on. I have hundreds of hours into our Member Portal. *Not* doing the member portal doesn't mean that I would automatically choose to paint the wall or mow the lawn or build an arduino-based space station. The lack of results is always disappointing, but It might be that the other things would have had the same "never amounting" with our without the tracking project.

Even though our door projects have been fairly successful, our "machine lockouts" have had at least three starts over the last 2 years, and one made it to a prototype, but none in production (yet).

Byron Hynes

I'm one of the volunteer directors of Calgary Protospace Ltd.

Protospace is Calgary's original, community-based, member-driven maker space, offering access to work shop space and shared tools for your projects, in a community of passionate, knowledgeable individuals. More contact info for Protospace is here.

 

Join and make something!

[K M]

Thanks Byron, 

I will totally accept that point. I wasn’t trying to give the impression that if you go out and “buy off-the -shelf” solutions for an RFID entry system, everyone will decide to clean toilets instead. Homebrew vs. off-the-shelf is a discussion that comes up a lot at the Kamloops Makerspace, and I will go ahead and side step them both right here. 

All I’m trying to say is pick your battles. If something is “mission critical” in terms of an implementation timeline, or staying up once it is implemented, then ask yourself “how reasonable is it to rely on volunteer labour here”, “is there a way that might reduce functionality, but could be implemented/maintained by volunteers with less specialized skill sets”, and other such questions.

The reality of it in Kamloops, is that the members who start a technical project are not always the only ones who end up finishing a project. There have been cases where projects have been implemented when almost (but not quite) done, and lack of documentation and upkeep procedures can create some quite frustrating situations. The people who have worked on our RFID entry/member portal are the same individuals that maintain our laser cutter, plan and implement hardware upgrades for it such as rotary tools and secondary hardware controllers so we can one day use g-code instead of RDbarelyWorks. These are the same members that built and maintain the custom chiller system for the laser, that are installing the multi-material kit on the Prussa that is owned by the space. These are the same members that our at the space every Wednesday giving tours, training on the tools, and project support from anyone in the community that decides to check out the space. 

In the portion of my email you highlighted below, there is certainly a lot of frustration. And I don’t want it to seem it is directed at volunteers for there incredible efforts. I fully invoke my right to work on what I want to when I want to at the space, and realize how important this is in the structure of what we are doing. 

I don’t know any of the history around your space, and I don’t mean to personalize anything here, but you brought it up, so I will just explore it for a second. In the hundreds of hours you have spent on the member portal, if you have managed to build something that tracks payments and opens doors in a practical way that is a great thing. On the other hand, if you have made it harder for the treasurer to their job by removing opportunities to automate processes, made it harder for the secretary to do their job and keep track of memberships because of some hypothetical technical implementation issues, etc.; then in this case, I think that it is worth asking some real questions about what the real costs and benefits of that volunteer action are to the community.

Again, I’m not coming down on one side or the other for any specific situation here. But just trying to say this stuff, while on some level being very simple, can seem very complex and nuanced when you are in the thick of it, dealing with real personalities. A lot can be simplified by focusing on what you are trying to do, and the resources you have to do it. Volunteer labour is a very real resource that is the most essential to the success of most spaces. It can also be the most difficult resource to predict and manage, which is particularly true when volunteers have differences in opinion about the direction to proceed.

Thank you very much for raising these questions, and for your detailed technical post below. I will certainly be looking into it in much more detail in the coming weeks.

cheers, kile

[Darcy Whyte]

I'm a big fan of simplicity plus plus some access systems can cost as much as those super cool chinese 6040 cnc machines...

What about something simple like just installing a Web cam at the entrances and/or on machines requiring certification?

--

Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace hack613.com | Aviation rubber-power.com

Contact: da...@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:17 AM Nathan McNeilly <s...@saeds.ca> wrote:

We are looking for a way to ensure that payments are being made, that members are only using equipment that they are certified on. We also believe that it would be a good way to stay organized and track how many people use the space. We are open to feedback on this and if you don't think its worth the hassle then maybe we should move forward with a simpler method. How do you track member use of the space?

Nathan 

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 at 7:31:53 AM UTC-7, Darcy Whyte wrote:

I'm not convinced there's much to gain from making your own card access system.

What exact problem are you trying to solve? Reporting? Unpaid members accessing?

--

Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace hack613.com | Aviation rubber-power.com

Contact: da...@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 2:55 PM Nathan McNeilly <s...@saeds.ca> wrote:

Hello all,

My name is Nathan and I am a Summer intern in Salmon Arm, BC. My internship consists of getting the 'Shuswap Makerspace' up and running. A major question that we have come across is member sign-in. We hope to have member cards that people can use to scan when they come into the space. Ideally, when they scan the card, their profile will pop up and it will display things like their payment status and the certifications that they have. On top of that we would like this software to be linked to Wild Apricot. I know its a very specific issue but after reading through a lot of the threads I thought I'd toss it out there. All feedback is appreciated!

Thanks,

Nathan

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[Byron Hynes]

[Many bits snipped. Not arguing, Just discussing.]

 

 Homebrew vs. off-the-shelf is a discussion that comes up a lot at the Kamloops Makerspace, ...

I think at all makerspaces. I tried to allude to that earlier. :) At Protospace, we build many things that could arguably be better bought.

 

All I’m trying to say is pick your battles. If something is “mission critical” in terms of an implementation timeline, or staying up once it is implemented, then ask yourself “how reasonable is it to rely on volunteer labour here”, “is there a way that might reduce functionality, but could be implemented/maintained by volunteers with less specialized skill sets”, and other such questions.

This is also all true. However, the alternative to "volunteer labour" is also a budgetary concern... and that's a whole other kettle of fish...

 

The reality of it in Kamloops, is that the members who start a technical project are not always the only ones who end up finishing a project. There have been cases where projects have been implemented when almost (but not quite) done, and lack of documentation and upkeep procedures can create some quite frustrating situations. The people who have worked on our RFID entry/member portal are the same individuals that maintain our laser cutter, plan and implement hardware upgrades for it such as rotary tools and secondary hardware controllers so we can one day use g-code instead of RDbarelyWorks. These are the same members that built and maintain the custom chiller system for the laser, that are installing the multi-material kit on the Prussa that is owned by the space. These are the same members that our at the space every Wednesday giving tours, training on the tools, and project support from anyone in the community that decides to check out the space. 

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup.

 

I don’t know any of the history around your space, and I don’t mean to personalize anything here, but you brought it up, so I will just explore it for a second. In the hundreds of hours you have spent on the member portal, if you have managed to build something that tracks payments and opens doors in a practical way that is a great thing. On the other hand, if you have made it harder for the treasurer to their job by removing opportunities to automate processes, made it harder for the secretary to do their job and keep track of memberships because of some hypothetical technical implementation issues, etc.; then in this case, I think that it is worth asking some real questions about what the real costs and benefits of that volunteer action are to the community.

It is for all intents and purposes impossible for us to tell someone they "can't" build something, unless it is actually unsafe.

In this particular case, our member portal started because *I* needed (as a director, and as the one who did/does most of the bookkeeping) to know who was paid up. It was built specifically to make my job easier.... so it's kind of the opposite of being in my way. The door piece was added after having some basics (who has paid) for about two years.

 

Volunteer labour is a very real resource that is the most essential to the success of most spaces. It can also be the most difficult resource to predict and manage, which is particularly true when volunteers have differences in opinion about the direction to proceed.

This is also very true. Volunteer management is completely different than employee management.

Byron

 

[Byron Hynes]

Speaking only for us, we have been spectacularly unable to have any kind of reliable video recording, and we have (mostly in the past) had a significant segment of membership who object on principle to being surveilled.

Aside from that, a camera doesn't _prevent_ the situation (except possibly as a deterrent); it's forensic.

It would not be practical for us to issue 250 brass keys to the lock, camera or not (not to mention rekeying if someone quits or stops paying without returning the key).

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 1:48 AM, Darcy Whyte <da...@inventorartist.com> wrote:

I'm a big fan of simplicity plus plus some access systems can cost as much as those super cool chinese 6040 cnc machines...

What about something simple like just installing a Web cam at the entrances and/or on machines requiring certification?

--

Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace hack613.com | Aviation rubber-power.com

Contact: darcy@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:17 AM Nathan McNeilly <s...@saeds.ca> wrote:

We are looking for a way to ensure that payments are being made, that members are only using equipment that they are certified on. We also believe that it would be a good way to stay organized and track how many people use the space. We are open to feedback on this and if you don't think its worth the hassle then maybe we should move forward with a simpler method. How do you track member use of the space?

Nathan 

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 at 7:31:53 AM UTC-7, Darcy Whyte wrote:

I'm not convinced there's much to gain from making your own card access system.

What exact problem are you trying to solve? Reporting? Unpaid members accessing?

--

Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace hack613.com | Aviation rubber-power.com

Contact: darcy@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 2:55 PM Nathan McNeilly <s...@saeds.ca> wrote:

Hello all,

My name is Nathan and I am a Summer intern in Salmon Arm, BC. My internship consists of getting the 'Shuswap Makerspace' up and running. A major question that we have come across is member sign-in. We hope to have member cards that people can use to scan when they come into the space. Ideally, when they scan the card, their profile will pop up and it will display things like their payment status and the certifications that they have. On top of that we would like this software to be linked to Wild Apricot. I know its a very specific issue but after reading through a lot of the threads I thought I'd toss it out there. All feedback is appreciated!

Thanks,

Nathan

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Byron Hynes

Calgary, AB

Note: Main/Business email is by...@hynes.ca. Gmail is for groups and a backup.