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Steve O
> http://www.smoke-safely.net
>
> Green Smoke is an electronic cigarette that looks and functions much
> like a tobacco cigarette with a few exceptions: it contains no ash, tar,
> or carbon monoxide that smokers are heavily exposed to with tobacco
> cigarettes.
Neither does it provide any pleasure, as you claim.
The BIG N
> Neither does it provide any pleasure, as you claim.
Who defines pleasure, "O Steve"? Are you a pleasure guru to whom we
seek to decide how our "personal" pleasures may be interpreted and
defined?
Silly clown.
TBN
The BIG N
> In article
> <ebc26e9e-7804-4a23-be62-aa6fe4e7c...@ct4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Do you intend to try this new product? If so, perhaps you can post a
> review about it on this newsgroup.
Never happen, Chunky. The BIG N always has, always does, always will
march to the beat of his own drum. Seldom do I "try" what any hype-
ster or shill is hawking.
Nevertheless, try it ore not, unlike a needy attention seeker like
yourself, I don't find it imperative to speak to others about my
personal business.
Besides, any talk of my own attributes and accomplishments would blow
all you losers out of the water, so what's the point.
Now, Lumpy, I have a suggestion for you . . . hit the scale! LOL!!
Btw, clown, nice irrelevant troll-dropping. Gotta satisfy that
uncontrollable urge, eh addict. Silly ass.
TBN - havin' too much fun
Steve O
> In article
> <ebc26e9e-7804-4a23...@ct4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Like many smokers, Nizo has never learned to understand the difference
between real pleasure and relief from a discomfort or irritation.
When he does, he will eventually understand what compels him to smoke
despite the fact that it is expensive,damaging and offers nothing other
than the nagging discomfort it is supposed to cure.
The BIG N
> On 07/06/2011 03:19, Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
You tell us, "O Steve". LOL!! Preach on, you irrelevant, school-
m'armish gasbag!! Love your elementary psychological projection.
TBN - compelled to fire up a nagging and discomforting Havana toro.
Shawn Hirn
There you go, being all huffy and childish again when you are
presented with valid information about the nicotine addiction that has
wrapped itself around you like a tight noose.
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am sorry Shawn but you are an idiot. There is a huge difference
between cigarettes and pipes/cigars. I don't know any pipe smoker or
cigar smoker that needs to get their "nicotine fix". This is
precisely why all these e-cig type products are engineered for
cigarette smokers, not pipe or cigar smokers. I smoke pipes and
cigars for enjoyment and relaxation, no nicotine. Most of the blends I
enjoy (English blends) have very little nicotine content. Look up the
main tobacco (Latakia) in English blends and you will find it is grown
primarily in Balkan countries that have soil very low in nitrogen
content, therefore the tobacco is low in nicotine. Burley and
Virginia tobaccos contain high nicotine contents depending where they
are grown and how they are cured. I enjoy several Virginia blends and
some Burleys, but the higher nicotine content doesn't make me keep
coming back to those blends on a daily basis, nor do I have trouble
getting through a night of work without going outside to "fix" as
Watson likes to call it. I respect cigarette smokers and they really
don't bother me, nor do I begrudge their freedom of choice, but I do
believe that a lot of folks nowadays are lumping pipe and cigar
smokers into the same category as cigarettes, which I strongly
disagree with.
Steve O
I would expect someone like Nizo to be in complete denial about why he
smokes.
The best thing he can do with valid information is ignore it and deride it.
I find it quite amusing that he considers me a gasbag, because he is by
far the biggest hot air producer in the entire history of usenet!
;-)
Steve O
Really?
What difference is that?
Both are addicted to nictine.
There is no other reason for them to f
force acrid, obnoxious and toxic smoke into their systems, is there?
>I don't know any pipe smoker or
> cigar smoker that needs to get their "nicotine fix".
As far as I am aware, all of them do..
I even know of some cigar and pipe smokers who use cigarettes for a
quick fix too.
>This is
> precisely why all these e-cig type products are engineered for
> cigarette smokers, not pipe or cigar smokers. I smoke pipes and
> cigars for enjoyment and relaxation, no nicotine.
You go on thinking that cigar or pipe smokers are any different from
cigarette smokers if you want to, you could even look down on cigarette
smokers as pure addicts if you like- then ask a doctor the difference
between a cigar or pipe smoker with lung cancer and a cigarette smoker
with lung cancer.
What's that you say?
Cigar and pipe smokers have less lung cancer than cigarette smokers?
Well, OK, but I guess that's like saying it's better to be run over a
car than by a truck.
>Most of the blends I
> enjoy (English blends) have very little nicotine content. Look up the
> main tobacco (Latakia) in English blends and you will find it is grown
> primarily in Balkan countries that have soil very low in nitrogen
> content, therefore the tobacco is low in nicotine.
Then it sounds like a cheap, inferior, product.
If you were an alcoholic, would you be happy buying booze with a very
low alcohol content or would you feel you were being short-changed?
Smokers NEED nicotine just like an alcoholic needs alcohol.
If there's very little nicotine in the brand you prefer, then it is my
guess that you have a pipe going pretty much ALL of the time, just like
an alcoholic would be drinking constantly if all they could get was low
alcohol beer.
> Burley and
> Virginia tobaccos contain high nicotine contents depending where they
> are grown and how they are cured. I enjoy several Virginia blends and
> some Burleys,
Hold on a minute- now you're flip-flopping.
First of all you told us that you enjoy tobacco with a low nictine
content, and now you're telling us that you enjoy the hard stuff??
>but the higher nicotine content doesn't make me keep
> coming back to those blends on a daily basis, nor do I have trouble
> getting through a night of work without going outside to "fix" as
> Watson likes to call it.
Why should you?
Do you have any trouble going through work all night without a drink?
Why would you even MENTION that?
Or do you in fact realise that a lot of people do have trouble with
nicotine, like the guy I work with who has to step outside for ten
minutes every hour?
> I respect cigarette smokers and they really
> don't bother me, nor do I begrudge their freedom of choice, but I do
> believe that a lot of folks nowadays are lumping pipe and cigar
> smokers into the same category as cigarettes, which I strongly
> disagree with.
What exactly makes a pipe or cigar smoker any different from any other
nicotine user/addict?
OK, I guess some like to dress it up as a "hobby"- whatever floats their
boat... but if it wasn't for nicotine addiction, there isn't a single
person alive who would even attempt to inhale hot, acrid and bitter
smoke without wanting to puke.
Jack_Mehough
Ha HA worked on you didn't it?
Priceless!
Jack_Mehough
> In article
> <ebc26e9e-7804-4a23-be62-aa6fe4e7c...@ct4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> �The BIG N <ni...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Do you intend to try this new product? If so, perhaps you can post a
> review about it on this newsgroup.
A hot date for you sweety
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhbIUIe_ryc&feature=related
Jack_Mehough
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
>
> - Show quoted text -
Wild turkey
Expresso
cigars
Whiskey
Ghost pepper
Habernaro
Cigarettes
Malt scotch
metaxa
none of it is kid stuff
Yet all to strong for you Eh?
Jack_Mehough
>
> - Show quoted text -
Funny how others cigarettes have you by the balls.
& it made a monkey out of you.
Jack_Mehough
>
> - Show quoted text -
Weaklings talk like this....
Even weaker one s write it.
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hot, acrid, bitter smoke? Obviously you have never tried smoking a
pipe before. You couldn't be further from the truth and I feel sorry
for you as a human being. English pipe tobacco an inferior product
because it contains little nicotine? Unfortunately, you are one of
the fucking tools that rides the 21st Neo-Nazi bandwagon, so you
wouldn't really even know any better would ya Steve-O? I will restate
my claim that most pipe smokers and cigar smokers are not nicotine
addicts. I enjoy an English blend for the complexity of the taste and
the quiet, contemplative atmosphere it affords me. Latakia inferior?
Haha, you make me laugh Steve. Latakia has a smoky, sweet port-wine
taste that has multi-dimensional characteristics and flavor profiles
that change as it smoked from top of the pipe to bottom.
Additionally, go to tobaccoreviews.com and read some reviews for the
following tobaccos (Balkan Sobranie, Full Virginia Flake, Edegeworth
Slices, GL Pease Bohemian Scandal). Do those reviewers sound like
nicotine addicts to you? You hit the nail on the head when you bring
up drinking because I would go as far as to say that saying every
smoker is a nicotine addict is like saying everyone that enjoys a
drink is an alcoholic. You CANNOT lump everyone into the same
category because it just doesn't work. Perhaps some cigar/pipe
smokers use cigarettes to get a "fix" as you say, but to stereotype
all pipe smokers and cigar smokers as nicotine addicts is FALSE. Most
pipe smokers smoke a pipe because of the taste, the relaxation, the
subtlety, and the complexity that it affords. You obviously do not
know any pipe smokers, but instead have probably spent the past 18
years of your life being hoodwinked by people like Bruce Watson. It
must really suck to be a tool that follows the bandwagon and it must
suck even more to live life without thinking for yourself and having
objectivity....
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Also, you are also mistaken or too stupid to realize what I was saying
about Virginia and Burley blends. I said that I prefer English blends
which are lower in nicotine but will smoke Va or Burleys
occasionally. The point I was making was that the nicotine has
nothing to do with my preference.....I choose which blend to smoke
based on my mood and what flavor profile I am in the mood for. Also,
I love your horrible analogy. Alcoholics need Alcohol......Smokers
need Nicotine.......That makes no sense Steve-O for the simple reason
that it is an indirect parallel. You can have it one
way....alcoholics need alcohol but those people who drink socially
don't NEED the fix. On the other hand you lump smokers into one
category, saying that all smokers need nicotine. This is simply not
true and is a horrible analogy.
The BIG N
I ain't huffin' , porcine guy, but you can bet your next pack of Tasty-
Kakes that I'm puffin'. Puffin on a nice big bowl of English blend in
a favorite Castello three-star.
> . . .when you are presented with valid information about the
nicotine addiction that has
> wrapped itself around you like a tight noose.
Valid , Shmalid! You fat little silly clown.
You and Gasbag "O Steve" can share the paranoia while The BIG N soaks
up the good life.
TBN - got it made
The BIG N
GasBag O Steve<no-one's...@here.thanks> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Neither does it provide any pleasure, as you claim.
>
> >>>>> Who defines pleasure, "O Steve"?
> >>>>> Are you a pleasure guru to whom we
> >>>>> seek to decide how our "personal" pleasures may be interpreted and
> >>>>> defined?
>
> >>>>> Silly clown.
>
> >>>> Schizo Nizo,
>
> >>> Like many smokers, Nizo has never learned to understand the difference
> >>> between real pleasure and relief from a discomfort or irritation.
> >>> When he does, he will eventually understand what compels him to smoke
> >>> despite the fact that it is expensive,damaging and offers nothing other
> >>> than the nagging discomfort it is supposed to cure.
>
> >> You tell us, "O Steve". LOL!! Preach on, you irrelevant, school-
> >> m'armish gasbag!! Love your elementary psychological projection.
>
> >> TBN - compelled to fire up a nagging and discomforting Havana toro.
>
> > There you go, being all huffy and childish again when you are
> > presented with valid information about the nicotine addiction that has
> > wrapped itself around you like a tight noose.
>
> I would expect someone like Nizo to be in complete denial about why he
> smokes.
What you expect is of little substance or importance here you silly
trolling gasbag. LOL!
> The best thing he can do with valid information is ignore it and deride it.
I don't ignore valid information, I ignore paranoia, propaganda, and
stupidity coming from inferior and inconsequential milquetoasts and
candy-asses
> I find it quite amusing that he considers me a gasbag, because he is by
> far the biggest hot air producer in the entire history of usenet!
Tsk, tsk, sorry bloke, invalid observation from a mindless troll. Come
back when are less defensive and you have some credibility, gasbag
TBN - loving' the circus
The BIG N
Gasbag "O Steve" <no-one's...@here.thanks> wrote:
>snip verbal diarrhea and mental loose stools<
Long winded, boring, repetitious, monotonous, dreary, predictable,
tedious, tiresome, uninteresting gasbag. Did I mention gasbag? Oh,
yeah, I did. LOL!!
TBN - fire'n 'em up
The BIG N
>
> Also, you are also mistaken or too stupid . . .
I'd say both. Stupid people are often mistaken about most things.
Especially self-absorbed gasbags. LOL!!
TBN - loving the show
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Right on, an English blend in a nice Castello. If that's not
pleasure, I don't know what is. I am going home in a half hour and
will surely load up my 1920 800 Series Comoy with some old Dunhill
965.
The BIG N
> will surely load up my 1920 800 Series Comoy with some old Dunhill
> 965.
AND IF THAT AIN'T PLEASURE, I'LL KISS YO' ASS!!!
TBN - Lovin' the good life
Steve O
WTF are you talking about????
Are you one of those strange people who think that smoking makes them
look "tough"?
How old are you?
Thirteen?
Steve O
I smoked a pipe for about 18 months.
The most disgusting experience I ever had as a smoker was when I tipped
the bowl back too far on an inferior pipe.
>You couldn't be further from the truth and I feel sorry
> for you as a human being.
The truth is, you assumed I was never a pipe smoker, and you were wrong.
What else are you wrong about?
>English pipe tobacco an inferior product
> because it contains little nicotine? Unfortunately, you are one of
> the fucking tools that rides the 21st Neo-Nazi bandwagon, so you
> wouldn't really even know any better would ya Steve-O?
Well, you better explain that to the OP, dickhead, because he is the one
who mentioned the low nicotine content of English tobacco, not me.
> I will restate
> my claim that most pipe smokers and cigar smokers are not nicotine
> addicts. I enjoy an English blend for the complexity of the taste and
> the quiet, contemplative atmosphere it affords me. Latakia inferior?
> Haha, you make me laugh Steve. Latakia has a smoky, sweet port-wine
> taste that has multi-dimensional characteristics and flavor profiles
> that change as it smoked from top of the pipe to bottom.
> Additionally, go to tobaccoreviews.com and read some reviews for the
> following tobaccos (Balkan Sobranie, Full Virginia Flake, Edegeworth
> Slices, GL Pease Bohemian Scandal).
Oh, bollocks, stop trying to sound like you are some kind of connoisseur.
It's dried tobacco leaves, and if it didn't have any nicotine in it, you
wouldn't go near the stuff.
>Do those reviewers sound like
> nicotine addicts to you?
They sound even more pathetic than the average addict, who at least does
not try to pretend that they are anything other than addicted to nicotine.
>You hit the nail on the head when you bring
> up drinking because I would go as far as to say that saying every
> smoker is a nicotine addict is like saying everyone that enjoys a
> drink is an alcoholic. You CANNOT lump everyone into the same
> category because it just doesn't work.
Of course not. alcohol does not work in the same way that nicotine does.
Not every drinker is an alcoholic, but most smokers are smokaholics.
Perhaps some cigar/pipe
> smokers use cigarettes to get a "fix" as you say, but to stereotype
> all pipe smokers and cigar smokers as nicotine addicts is FALSE. Most
> pipe smokers smoke a pipe because of the taste, the relaxation, the
> subtlety, and the complexity that it affords.
If only tobacco was actually capable of providing relaxation, taste and
subtlety.
That is just a pipe-smoker's dream. (pun intended).
You obviously do not
> know any pipe smokers,
You are obviously wrong again.
but instead have probably spent the past 18
> years of your life being hoodwinked by people like Bruce Watson. It
> must really suck to be a tool that follows the bandwagon and it must
> suck even more to live life without thinking for yourself and having
> objectivity....
I actually fully understood the nature and processes of nicotine
addiction before I met Bruce.
We both arrived at the same conclusions independently.
Steve O
Wrong on both counts.
Alcoholics do not need alcohol and nicotine addicts do not need nicotine.
They only think that they do, and will endure a lot of things to get it,
like unpleasant taste, for example.
You can have it one
> way....alcoholics need alcohol but those people who drink socially
> don't NEED the fix.
Are you a drinker?
If so, what is the longest period you have spent without alcohol?
On the other hand you lump smokers into one
> category, saying that all smokers need nicotine. This is simply not
> true and is a horrible analogy.
The process of nicotine addiction works the same for everyone.
It is a very simple process.
Steve O
So what was your point?
-
Shawn Hirn
Such as nicotine addicts.
The BIG N
Defensive Troll Twinky Shane <s...@DOOFUS.net> wrote:. .
>
> > I'd say both. Stupid people are often mistaken about most things.
> > Especially self-absorbed gasbags. LOL!!
>
> Such as nicotine addicts.
Good rejoinder, deep thinker. Well, conceived, well thought out, and
extremely well constructed for a four word sentence. Your ability to
hold your ground by way of a fully demonstrated position and an
intelligently expressed viewpoint and sentiment would make any
mindless troll proud. To say nothing of that degree factory that's
handing you a night-school grade.
We realize that "O Steve" is no match for scott or The BIG N but at
the same time I don't think he'd welcome assistance from an illiterate
like you. I'm not sure he's quite reached that level of desperation.
But don't let that stop you Lumpy for, as The Big N sees it, each time
you troll here you reaffirm your stupidity for all to see.
Nice try Lumpy, but no extra whipped cream for you. LOL!
scottbtdmb
Yes, I enjoy a drink just like I enjoy a pipe. There is no rhyme or
reason to the frequency of how often I partake in either. If I get an
allergy or cold, I stop smoking the pipe sometimes for a week or two
without any issues. Drinking is the same way, I can take it or leave
it. Life is all about moderation Steve-O, this is obviously something
you don't understand. That's great that you smoked a pipe at one
point but I imagine you probably smoked smoke low quality aromatic
blend, which would account for why you feel pipe tobacco tastes like
acrid, hot air. Your claim that all smokers are nicotine addicts, yet
not all drinkers are alcoholics is ridiculous and is one giant
metaphor for how our society is run in today's world. We are brain
washed from an early age to accept social evils, while we are taught
to persecute socially inacceptable behaviors like smoking. I will not
deny that some smokers are nicotine fiends just like some drinkers are
alcoholics. But the key word is "some", not all. The process of
nicotine addiction works the same for everyone is also ridiculous!
Does the process of heroin addiction work the same for all junkies?
If you answered yes, what account for daily addicts versus "weekend
warriors". On the other hand, you use the word "bollocks" which I
assume means you are from Great Britain. This would explain a lot.
The BIG N
>
> - Show quoted text -
"O Steve" rambles on from the limited perspective as a former smoker
who bases his total argument upon his own former lack of control and
present urges.
His narrow scope of view is obvious and all of his excessive verbiage
and rhetoric is merely his way of clouding his naive issues. Insecure
control-issue screwballs like "O Steve" need to push their values on
others. It's a cop thing.
His towel-boy Twinky Shane, however, is just plain stupid as he elects
to shamelessly speak from 'total' ignorance.
Both are emotionally thin-skinned and tend to become upset and
defensive quite easily.
TBN - Loadin' a Spanu with Dunhill, Early Morning, and feedi ng the
"pipe addiction". LOL!!!
scottbtdmb
Yeah I get more frustrated with their stupidity than with their actual
values. I can respect someone's belief on a topic if it is presented
with objective, self-thought knowledge, but these idiots seem to
follow the crowd. It is unfortunately a glimpse into where our
country is going, which is slowly towards Socialism. Ah well, I am
going to pack up a GBD Pedigree with a fine blend from Gawith &
Hoggarth and just be happy that I have enough pipe tobacco cellared
away to last a lifetime. Idiots like Broughton, Watson, and Hirn can
fight all they want and get all the laws passed that they possibly
can, but I will still be enjoying my pipe when all the dust clears.
Their angry, defensive mannerisms will never fade, just as my smiling
face as I light a pipe filled with fine tobacco will never cease to be!
Shawn Hirn
I do not begrudge you or anyone else from smoking whatever you want,
as long as you do so in private.
Where is the big problem with that?
Steve O
Actually, there is, and it is very simple.
How much you drink and how much you smoke per week depends on three
things- the nature and action of an addictive substance, your mental
conditioning and dependency towards it, and the rate it leaves your
system thereby triggering a craving to desire more.
How often you crave depends on your personal make-up, but for most
cigarette smokers, craving returns very quickly, within an hour or so,
and for pipe and cigar smokers, slightly longer.
However, I have always found that many pipe and cigar smokers tend to
supplement their nicotine intake anyway in addiction to the pipe or
cigar, particularly when any form of tobacco is conspicuously absent.
Fortunately, when it comes to drinking, the average drinker can usually
spend a couple of weeks or more before really craving a drink.
If they craved alcohol as regularly as the average smoker craves
tobacco, they'd be in deep trouble.
If I get an
> allergy or cold, I stop smoking the pipe sometimes for a week or two
> without any issues. Drinking is the same way, I can take it or leave
> it.
See above, if like most people, you are an occasional or moderate
drinker, the chances are that you have not gone without alcohol for
anything over three weeks in the last few years, at least not without
craving a drink.
It is readily available.
It is even incorporated into our culture and religions.
> Life is all about moderation Steve-O, this is obviously something
> you don't understand.
Something that you don't seem to understand is that the average nicotine
user is far from moderate when it comes to using tobacco .
The vast majority of smokers have let their smoking control them.
You might consider yourself "lucky" as a pipe smoker, but it is all part
of the same addiction, even it is dressed up as a connoisseur's "hobby".
>That's great that you smoked a pipe at one
> point but I imagine you probably smoked smoke low quality aromatic
> blend, which would account for why you feel pipe tobacco tastes like
> acrid, hot air.
I started off using St Bruno, which I agree is inferior, but I ended up
regularly using Ashton's Artisan blend before I gave up on it completely.
The problem is, it is quite rare for a pipe smoker to ever consider
quitting.
It's not like a "filthy" cigarette smoker, who is forced on all sides to
pack it in.
When I think about it, apart from myself, I don't think I have ever
heard of a pipe smoker who voluntarily quit, unless forced to do so by
major health problems.
There are many pipe smokers who carry their addiction to the grave, in
fact, it is even seen as an old man's game.
Your claim that all smokers are nicotine addicts, yet
> not all drinkers are alcoholics is ridiculous and is one giant
> metaphor for how our society is run in today's world.
No it isn't.
It means that both tobacco and alcohol are addictive substances, and
have an addictive effect.
The addictive effect of alcohol is simply different from the addictive
effect of tobacco.
You become an alcoholic when you lose complete control over your
drinking and you become a smokaholic when you lose complete control of
your smoking.
For most people, that happens when they reach an intake of about 37mg of
nicotine per day.
I accept that most pipe smokers probably don't reach that level.
>We are brain
> washed from an early age to accept social evils, while we are taught
> to persecute socially inacceptable behaviors like smoking.
I don't believe there is anything socially unacceptable about smoking at
all, other than the occasional unpleasant smell.
Neither would I consider pesrecuting a smoker for any reason.
I have no interest in banning smoking, in fact, I think it is
counter-productive.
> I will not
> deny that some smokers are nicotine fiends just like some drinkers are
> alcoholics. But the key word is "some", not all. The process of
> nicotine addiction works the same for everyone is also ridiculous!
Not as ridiculous as you think.
What other process are you aware of that induces someone to ingest a
poisonous, acrid and unpleasant tasting substance which can seriously
harm their own health?
> Does the process of heroin addiction work the same for all junkies?
Actually, yes it does.
Addiction is the same process across the board of all addictive drugs.
It creates an imbalance- a feeling of discomfort which can only
apparently be addressed by further doses of the drug itself which in
turn creates a further need or desire for more of that drug.
It is a self-feeding system.
Granted, different drugs do have different effects.
Heroin gets you high, but what does tobacco *actually* do, other than
create a craving for more?
It really is the pill which does nothing except make you feel
uncomfortable to the point where you feel you have to use another pill
to make the feeling go away.
At least cannabis can make you giggle.
> If you answered yes, what account for daily addicts versus "weekend
> warriors". On the other hand, you use the word "bollocks" which I
> assume means you are from Great Britain. This would explain a lot.
How much a person uses an addictive drug depends very much on the type
of drug used, and their mental conditioning and mental dependence
towards it, and yes, I am from England, so what does that explain?
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
It seems to me that we will have to agree to disagree here. You seem
to fall into the habit of making a cookie cutter judgment on anything
subject that somehow falls into addiction (in the extreme case).
Saying that most people who drink moderately still crave alcohol or
can't go 3 weeks without it is almost as ridiculous as your claims
about pipe smokers/cigar smokers being nicotine addicts. Obviously,
we are going to continue to go around in circles here, which I admit
with you is not nearly as entertaining as is with Twinkie Shane. I
respect the fact that you claim you would never persecute smokers,
although I doubt the validity of that statement, but I really feel
strongly that you are making too much of a generalization out of
things.
The BIG N
>snip sophomoric twaddle<
This clown just doesn't run out of gas.
TBN
The BIG N
>
> I do not begrudge you or anyone else from smoking whatever you want,
> as long as you do so in private.
>
> Where is the big problem with that?
Why are you here, fruitcake?
Does anyone here actually need to know what a neurotic does or does
not begrudge. Your opinions are valued the same as your
credibility . . . they are equally worthless.
Now go gab a snack! LOL!
TBN
Steve O
Hey, why not?
After all, this is usenet! ;-)
Look, I'm not criticising anyone for using a pipe- I'm just trying to
highlight the real reason why someone would smoke a pipe.
It's very easy to dress it up romantically and make claims like, "but
people really compliment me on the smell of my aromatic blend" but the
reality is that most pipe tobacco smoke is harsh and unpleasant and the
vast majority of people are completely at a loss to understand why
someone would want to do it.
There are many reasons why some non smokers are attracted by the smell
of pipe tobacco smoke (please note- I do distinguish between the smell
of pipe tobacco and the smell of burning pipe tobacco smoke- one has an
aromatic, woody and pleasant smell and the other is acrid and pungent)
but I have found it is usually due to association- particularly
association with a loved one.
Strong associations like that can often overcome natural revulsion, and
unless they are repeatedly exposed and acclimatised to it, the natural
position on any form of tobacco smoke is revulsion and avoidance.
The fact of the matter is that a person has to train very hard before
they can even endure using a pipe, and the only thing that keeps that
person trying is the addictive nature of nicotine.
I have never once heard of a pipe smoker who "enjoys" nicotine free pipe
tobacco.
I have heard many claim that it is not about nicotine at all, and have
heard them rave about the particular qualities of a pipe tobacco such as
"vanilla" or "cherry" overtones, and they seem to go to great lengths to
explain to me about how their particular type of tobacco contains very
little nicotine.
If was about the taste and not the nicotine, they'd be happily smoking
raw vanilla pods and cherry leaves instead, but that clearly isn't the case.
(I'm being flippant about the cherry and vanilla taste here,you could be
better off applying those terms to wine drinkers, but please feel free
to insert any particular personal pipe tobacco taste preference, the
same argument still applies)
> You seem
> to fall into the habit of making a cookie cutter judgment on anything
> subject that somehow falls into addiction (in the extreme case).
> Saying that most people who drink moderately still crave alcohol or
> can't go 3 weeks without it is almost as ridiculous as your claims
> about pipe smokers/cigar smokers being nicotine addicts.
It depends on what you understand a craving to be.
Not all cravings are overwhelming (as is often in the case of cigarette
craving) but they are cravings all the same.
If you are a drinker, examine your own drinking habits, and try and be
honest about yourself and how your drinking has changed over the years.
There are a number of things which controls alcohol intake, but the main
influence is the addictive nature of alcohol, and craving for it.
For most drinkers (but unfortunately not for all) it is not that much of
a problem, apart from the occasional over- indulgence, which we can
usually find an excuse for.
In that way, it is different from tobacco, an addiction into which
people appear to rapidly descend.
In the same way, addiction to pipe tobacco can be different from
addiction to cigarette tobacco.
A lot of it depends upon the personal mental attitude of the smoker,
just like the personal mental attitude of the drinker can govern whether
or not they will become a complete and uncontrolled alcoholic or an
occasional drinker.
> Obviously,
> we are going to continue to go around in circles here, which I admit
> with you is not nearly as entertaining as is with Twinkie Shane. I
> respect the fact that you claim you would never persecute smokers,
> although I doubt the validity of that statement, but I really feel
> strongly that you are making too much of a generalization out of
> things.
I can understand and accept that, and even agree that on occasion I can
generalize too much, but nicotine addiction is an extremely complex
subject, and one which many smokers hardly ever think about.
In fact, it is in the very nature of addiction to NOT think about it.
Thank you for trying.