What's the best long range rifle?
essole
I'd like to know peoples opinions on:
1. The best value for the money
2. The best rifle bar none
3. The best calibre
4. The best bolt action
5. The best semi-auto action
I usually buy something only once so I'll have to compare the pros and cons
of value vs. performance.
I find the 7.62 SVD Druganov Sniper Rifle really appealling ... is that a
prohibited firearm?
Currently i own an SKS 7.62x39 and Marllin 444P.
Thanks for the input in advance.
famille ducharme
around 2000$US minimun so you are looking at a 4000$ rifle! Sorry to burst
your bubble.
Here is my opinoin:
1. The best value for the money: Browning A-Bolt II stainless stalker with
boss ( I shoot 2 bullets in the same hole frequently at 100 yards!)
2. The best rifle bar none: Heckler&Koch PSG-1
3. The best calibre: 308
4. The best bolt action: Dakota T-76 Longbow
5. The best semi-auto action: See No 2...but at 15 000$ it's not cheap
Simon
"essole" <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PHX48.2995$yi5.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
sp...@controlq.com
Be careful what you ask, opinions are like posterior orifices. We all
have them, and mine are spelled out below, with neither explanation nor
knowlege of what you are going to do with the rifle.
On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, essole wrote:
> I'm planning for a future purchase of a long range rifle.
> I'd like to know peoples opinions on:
> 1. The best value for the money
Savage 10FP
> 2. The best rifle bar none
Armalite AR-50 (or the AR-30 for the more realistic amoung us).
> 3. The best calibre
.308Win.
> 4. The best bolt action
See above.
> 5. The best semi-auto action
Springfield M1A
>
> I usually buy something only once so I'll have to compare the pros and cons
> of value vs. performance.
>
> I find the 7.62 SVD Druganov Sniper Rifle really appealling ... is that a
> prohibited firearm?
>
yes. Unless you own prohib rifle, they are TOOO DAAANGEROUS owing
to nasty lookingness and liberal sensibilities. Nice rifle
though.
> Currently i own an SKS 7.62x39 and Marllin 444P.
>
> Thanks for the input in advance.
>
If you are really interested in a hot bolt action long range rifle, then
I'd look very seriously at the Armalite AR-30. It comes in .338 Lapua,
and the brass will be a little pricey initially, but if you don't want to
compromise, want to shoot long range, this bolt action beauty might just
be the ticket. There is a muzzle brake which will make you VERY unpopular
at the range, but reduces the recoil (by all accounts, I haven't fired
this honey -- yet) to more than manageable levels.
Ragnar Redbeard
"famille ducharme" <bowh...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:Zke58.9857$Px5.7...@wagner.videotron.net...
> Forget your Druganov my friend!!! First it's prohibited,
What is it about the Dragunov that causes it to be prohibited?
-RR
DJ
It's really scary looking, and Rambo used one, once.
That's it. The whole reason.
It's a semi-automatic .30-'06, for all intents and purposes. Since
Browning makes a REALLY good semi-automatic .30-'06:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/bar/bar_stalker.htm
and it's even a "black gun", there is *no* valid reason.
And the SVD is longer, more unweildy, and harder to get ammo for.
And when you get around to asking why SPAS-12 shotguns are
prohibited, see the same reasoning...
Someone once said that the Firearms Control guys, when deciding what
to ban, restrict, or allow, bought a copy of the Gun Digest, and
banned all the scary looking ones, restricted the kinda-scary ones,
and let the rest go.
They were more or less right.
DJ
10x
> Someone once said that the Firearms Control guys, when deciding what
>to ban, restrict, or allow, bought a copy of the Gun Digest, and
>banned all the scary looking ones, restricted the kinda-scary ones,
>and let the rest go.
>
> They were more or less right.
Photocopies of the actual pages have been obtained through the rapidly
disappearing freedom of information act.
This is exactly what happened.
Current Canadian legislation regards a remington rolling block from
1897 in 45/70 as a non gun, yet firearms with exactly the same
specifications manufactured today are considered firearms and have to
be registered. Same with muzzle loading precussion rifles. It don't
make sense.
essole
making a collection of rifles to cover a broad spectrum of hunting
conditions. I'll be hunting in Europe, Africa, U.S., South America and B.C.
in the future. I don't like wasting money on stuff i don't need, but I want
it all.
Tell me sir, how much range can I expect from a 308 cal.? Say ... from a
high quality piece vs. low quality ... I guess the barrel would have a lot
to do with performance ... correct me if I'm wrong.
<sp...@controlq.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.02012...@schizo.controlq.com...
essole
.308 win? The druganov does ... I already have a 1000 m gun and a close
range brush gun. Just trying to decide which gun to buy for hunting in the
mountains for Big Horns and Elk in B.C. and Europe. I guess I'm a collector
of sorts as well.
Thank you sir for your input.
"DJ" <dj_mac...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8b05f0a.02012...@posting.google.com...
> "Ragnar Redbeard" <en...@ziplip.com> wrote in message
news:<6%k58.16897$qN3.1...@news1.mts.net>...
> > "famille ducharme" <bowh...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
> > news:Zke58.9857$Px5.7...@wagner.videotron.net...
> > > Forget your Druganov my friend!!! First it's prohibited,
> >
> > What is it about the Dragunov that causes it to be prohibited?
> >
> > -RR
>
> It's really scary looking, and Rambo used one, once.
>
> That's it. The whole reason.
Rambo has to go ruin everything for, eh?
sp...@controlq.com
> Thanks for the input ... I'm just entering the "hunting scene" and I'm
> making a collection of rifles to cover a broad spectrum of hunting
> conditions. I'll be hunting in Europe, Africa, U.S., South America and B.C.
> in the future. I don't like wasting money on stuff i don't need, but I want
> it all.
OUCH! Blind sided again!
OK, your original post did not mention hunting, nor did it mention Africa.
Can I assume that you will NOT be hunting dangerous game? As I indicated,
the opinions I expressed took no account of your intended use, and
instead tended to favour target shooting.
For hunting in Africa , I'd suggest a Win70 or Mauser action or Browning
A-Bolt with BOSS or similar in .375H&H -- a Mauser style claw action is a
GOOD IDEA (TM) for dangerous game, owing to the positive feed on 2nd and
followup shots ... Possibly a large bore double rifle ...
> Tell me sir, how much range can I expect from a 308 cal.? Say ... from a
> high quality piece vs. low quality ... I guess the barrel would have a lot
> to do with performance ... correct me if I'm wrong.
The target shooters use the .308 routinely out to 1000 yds. No-one (at
least no-one with ethics) would hunt at that range, as the likelihood of a
humane kill is minimal, at best. Again, the .308 recommendation was
intended for TARGET shooting, and considered range, recoil, economy etc.
I'd stand by the .308 for North American game short of Grizzly (up to
Moose at reasonable ranges), but not for dangerous game. It is an easy
calibre to shoot accurately, and the recoil is manageable -- implying that
shot placement on most game is more important (within reason) that what
you're shooting them with.
I'd have to re-think the calibre for a general purpose hunting rifle, and
given your wide open choices, I don't feel that you will be able to hunt
every continent, every game with a single rifle/calibre. It just doesn't
work that way!
It might help if you stated exactly what game you are after, and then
worked from there ... you simply can't pick a single rifle/calibre (IMHO)
and hunt everything on earth!
Likewise, the AR-30 is too heavy to schlepp around the field all day long,
and you might like to get a lightweight rifle in 7mm or 30-06 for deer
sized animals. Elephant, Rhino, Lion, Cape Buffalo is outside my
experience, and I'd defer to those who HAVE ACTUALLY DONE IT, or better
yet, the recommendation of a good PH (professional hunter) IN THE LOCALE
THAT YOU EXPECT TO HUNT!
For Rabbits, a .22lr will suffice (usually).
Note too, that each locale has calibre limits (some upper, some
lower) that you can hunt with legally, and that plays a role in your
selection.
One thing I will say, and it relates to shot placement (see above). For
hunting, the big magnums may have the knock down power, and flat shooting
characteristics for longer ranges, but you must know your own personal
limitations. It is better by far to shoot a lesser calibre that you can
shoot well, and consistently under stress than some cannon which is likely
to make you flinch and miss -- or worse wound the animal.
So, after all this, you know less than you started, but I think you should
get the idea that there is MUCH to learn! READ! Get to the magazine
stands, and library, where there are a number of good sources of
information.
And under no circumstances should you take as gospel the ramblings of some
faceless guy on the internet with something as important as this! Get the
opinions of those who hunt what you want to hunt, and who have done so
successfully over a number of years. Those old guys sitting around your
gun club can be either a good resource, or the source of bad info --
you'll have to decide.
My original caveat remains!
You'll likely hear variations on this ...
deer, antelope -- plains 7mm Mag. 7mm STW (if you can handle it)
dangerous game -- minimum 375H&H in either a double or mauser
style action
deer, caribou, moose -- brush 30-06, 308, 7mm Mag.
This new WSM might be of interest on the deer size game as well but I have
no experience with it. Also the 270, 30-30, 35 whelan and many other fine
calibres are excellant here -- depending upon your application.
Also, one thing that has not been touched upon -- what bullet given a
certain calibre to use on what game?? That's the subject of another
post. Ask when you know more.
Good luck.
essole
my hunting range. The Marlin 444P is good for upclose and personal, The SKS
in 7.62x39 is alright for medium range applications (I'm guessing around
600m for deer sized game????) but I want some thing that can be used for
longer ranges on Elk, Hig Horn and Wild Boar in the Carpathian Mountain
range ... It's not uncommon to see game grazing on far off mountain sides
more than a kilometer away. Besides, I'm thrilled by long range target
shooting.
Is it unethical to hunt at long ranges for the "humane kill" or because
it's unsportsmanlike???? That druganovs' range is 3800 meters, that's what
got me interested. Do you know of hunting rifles that have this type of
range?
Thanks for the reply.
<sp...@controlq.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.020129...@schizo.controlq.com...
essole
holds back on what they say to some degree. ooooohhhh ... I don't want to
offend anybody ... oooooohhhh
>
>
Kevin
than 200m for deer IMHO and most people would say less based on ft lbs of
energy left. You obviously have not done your homework on the subject.
-Kevin
essole <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bqF58.13092$9y2.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
10x
wrote:
> That druganovs' range is 3800 meters, that's what
>got me interested. Do you know of hunting rifles that have this type of
>range?
>Thanks for the reply.
What is the caliber of the "draganuv"?
What bullet weight is used?
What is the muzzle velocity.
What is the bullet shape. (ballistic coefficient)?
What is the retained veolcity of this bullet at 3800M?
At anything over 350 M you had better have a very accurate rangefinder
as bullet drop becomes a signifcant factor.
At 1000M a error in distance of 50 meters can mean a vertical error of
over a foot in bullet impact. Couple this with the vagaries of wind,
updrafts and downdrafts and you will increase the likelyhood of a
miss.
Just because a cartridge has the capability to shoot 3800 meters
doesn't mean it can be shot accurately at that distance without
accounting for all of the variables.
essole
go post elsewhere.
"Kevin" <som...@dot.com> wrote in message
news:rcH58.1238$Ek1.1...@news-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
essole
"Killing Range 3800m"
I believe the calibre is 7.62x52 mm
muzzle velocity is 830 m/s
9.6 gram "ordinary bullet with steel core"
retained velocity ?????
"10x" <1...@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:3c574901....@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:41:02 -0500, "essole" <ess...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > That druganovs' range is 3800 meters, that's what
> >got me interested. Do you know of hunting rifles that have this type of
> >range?
> >Thanks for the reply.
>
> What is the caliber of the "draganuv"?
> What bullet weight is used?
> What is the muzzle velocity.
> What is the bullet shape. (ballistic coefficient)?
> What is the retained veolcity of this bullet at 3800M?
>
> At anything over 350 M you had better have a very accurate rangefinder
> as bullet drop becomes a signifcant factor.
> At 1000M a error in distance of 50 meters can mean a vertical error of
> over a foot in bullet impact. Couple this with the vagaries of wind,
> updrafts and downdrafts and you will increase the likelyhood of a
> miss.
>
This rifle probably shoots flat out to 2000 meters.
> Just because a cartridge has the capability to shoot 3800 meters
> doesn't mean it can be shot accurately at that distance without
> accounting for all of the variables.
>
Just because I can't shoot accurately at 3800 m doesn't mean I don't want to
shoot accurately at 1800 m.
Anyways ... the question still stands ... DO YOU KNOW OF A HUNTING RIFLE
THAT HAS A COMPRABLE RANGE? heheeee. I hope I didn't insult you
essole
can one expect from such a firearm? And what's the damage (monetary)?
Achim Nolcken Lohse
>
> Someone once said that the Firearms Control guys, when deciding what
>to ban, restrict, or allow, bought a copy of the Gun Digest, and
>banned all the scary looking ones, restricted the kinda-scary ones,
>and let the rest go.
>
> They were more or less right.
>
That wouldn't explain why they banned the SPAS-12 and LAW-12 in 1992,
but let SPAS-15 owners (restricted because of short barrel,removable
stacked mags, rubber bullet option, tear-gas launcher option) keep
theirs for another two years. I figure it was because most, if not
all, of the owners were cops.
There was another factor too. If you look at the brands that were most
and least affected, you'll quickly see that overseas manufacturers got
whacked to the overall benefit of US manufacturers.
My own conviction is that the whole Conservative gun-ban scheme was
hatched in Washington as a test run for US gun control, and partly
justified as a way of dirsarming Canadians, partly as a way of
increasing US market share of the guns Canadians were allowed to buy.
If you read Kim Campbell's autobiography, it appears that the then
Justice Minister (and later Prime Minister) had no clue as to the
origin of the concrete details of this gun grab, and seems to ascribe
it to some radical anti-gun clique within the Justice Ministry. In
fact, she assured the House in the spring of '92 (according to a
letter I received from my then MP Syd Parker) that no legally owned
firearms would be confiscated under the new firearms legislation, yet
only half a year later, in July '92, the government did exactly that,
with no compensation.
I find it bitterly ironic that several prominent participants in this
forum urge us to support Reform/Alliance, which has been engaging in
heroic acts of contortionism to unite with Joe Clark and the other
lying, thieving Tory sleazebags who perpetrated what is still the
biggest gun grab in Canadian history.
Achim
axethetax
Achim Nolcken Lohse
wrote:
>
>"Killing Range 3800m"
>I believe the calibre is 7.62x52 mm
>muzzle velocity is 830 m/s
>9.6 gram "ordinary bullet with steel core"
>retained velocity ?????
...
>>
>This rifle probably shoots flat out to 2000 meters.
>
At a rough guess, you're off by a power of ten (ie. it might shoot
flat to about 200 meters, if you consider plus or minus a couple of
inches as "flat").
>> Just because a cartridge has the capability to shoot 3800 meters
>> doesn't mean it can be shot accurately at that distance without
>> accounting for all of the variables.
>>
>
>Just because I can't shoot accurately at 3800 m doesn't mean I don't want to
>shoot accurately at 1800 m.
If you're really interested in long-range hunting, you'd better start
by getting yourself a ballistics program and finding out what happens
in the real world of bullet flight. A good freeware one is PCB1.8 by
Odd Skevik. It will tell you in a few minutes how "flat" a given
round will shoot.
>Anyways ... the question still stands ... DO YOU KNOW OF A HUNTING RIFLE
>THAT HAS A COMPRABLE RANGE? heheeee. I hope I didn't insult you
>
There's no hunting rifle that has a range of either 3800m or even of
1800m.
I suspect you're just yanking our chain.
>
>
Achim
axethetax
DJ
> Do you get 3800 meter range with something like that Browning in 30-06 or
> .308 win? The druganov does ...
No, the Dragunov SVD does not, unless you hold it at something
approaching 30 degrees from the horizontal, and are trying to hit a
warehouse ;-). You might want to take reading that sort of thing with
a grain of salt. A thousand yards, in the hands of a practiced sniper,
under idea conditions, yes. Two thousand in the hands of (god rest his
soul) Carlost Hathcock III, maybe. 3800? No way. Even the 50 cal guys
don't shoot THAT far accurately.
> I already have a 1000 m gun and a close
> range brush gun.
No, you don't. I also have an SKS, which I reload my own ammo for.
With supreme attention to detail and a fixed scope, I feel "OK"
shooting at a deer sized animal two hundred yards away. That's also
right about where your .444 is doing "a cannonball" as well. Yes, I'm
very aware what it says on that rear sight elevation ladder. That was
a wonderful exercise in theoretics. If you actually trusted it, you
would be in for an unpleasant experience.
What it sounds like you need is a long range hard hitter, and if you
want to tag moose or elk with it, it needs to be something reputable.
You can never go wrong with a .30-'06 or a .308, but you may also want
to consider the .300Mag or 7mmMag.
DJ
10x
wrote:
>
>"Killing Range 3800m"
>I believe the calibre is 7.62x52 mm
>muzzle velocity is 830 m/s
>9.6 gram "ordinary bullet with steel core"
>retained velocity ?????
Sorry to disapoint you but the killing range is not an indication of
accuracy at 3800m. I would suspect that after 300m the ammount of
bullet drop per 50m incrememt is enough to cause a miss on big game
animals.
This is 147 to 150 grain bullet. I would suspect that after 400m there
may not be enough retained velocity to expand a hunting bullet.
A steel core bullet does not expand at all. A steel core bullet must
pass through either the animals brain, spine, or heart to make a
killing shot.
In my opinion a 3800m killing range is overly optimistic.
There is no optimum rifling twist that will give optimum stability to
a fired bullet through the velocity changes over a 3800m range.
There is no magic gun, or magic caliber. Some rifles shoot some
ammunition extremely accuratley while other rifles shoot all
ammunition a bit less accurately. This can be from the same
manufacturer.
A 7mm remington magnum or a 300 winchester would give better downrange
preformance than the 7x52. But I wouldn't use either one on game at a
range of more than 300m. Except for one mule deer at 150m all of the
big game I have taken has been at distances of less than 75m.
10x
Lohse) wrote:
>There was another factor too. If you look at the brands that were most
>and least affected, you'll quickly see that overseas manufacturers got
>whacked to the overall benefit of US manufacturers.
>
>My own conviction is that the whole Conservative gun-ban scheme was
>hatched in Washington as a test run for US gun control, and partly
>justified as a way of dirsarming Canadians, partly as a way of
>increasing US market share of the guns Canadians were allowed to buy.
>
>If you read Kim Campbell's autobiography, it appears that the then
>Justice Minister (and later Prime Minister) had no clue as to the
>origin of the concrete details of this gun grab, and seems to ascribe
>it to some radical anti-gun clique within the Justice Ministry. In
>fact, she assured the House in the spring of '92 (according to a
>letter I received from my then MP Syd Parker) that no legally owned
>firearms would be confiscated under the new firearms legislation, yet
>only half a year later, in July '92, the government did exactly that,
>with no compensation.
Rumour has it the author of all of the firearms legislation in the
Canadian department of Justice is one "Richard Mosely".
The reason that European import shotguns and novelty firearms were
banned was probably that few folks owned them compared to firearms
made in the United States. This would set the mindset for the "good
gun-bad gun" aspect of the firearms legisltion.
Take small chips off the block and soon the block is small enough to
go into the crusher.
And you are right there were a large number of firearms confiscated
and destroyed under the 1992 legislation. All illegally too I may add
as there was no order by a judge to destroy these firearms - just
policy.
DJ
> > What is the caliber of the "draganuv"?
Merry Christmas (a little late:
http://www.sovietarmy.com/small_arms/svd.pdf )
> This rifle probably shoots flat out to 2000 meters.
Nothing shoots "flat" out to 2000 meters that isn't self propelled.
Gravity sucks that way ;-).
Punching in the available numbers into my ballistics program, the
150gr (9.6gram) round going 2800fps (830mps) will drop, even allowing
for a mystical BC of .60... are you ready for this... six thousand
inches at 3000 yards. That means that if you wanted to hit a target,
you would have to aim almost five hundred feet over it at that range.
Hmm. Not as easy as it sounds, eh?
Mind you, at 200 yards, it has only dropped four inches. Quite
respectable.
But my .308 can do that easily, too.
> Anyways ... the question still stands ... DO YOU KNOW OF A HUNTING RIFLE
> THAT HAS A COMPRABLE RANGE? heheeee. I hope I didn't insult you
If you want to build a sniper rifle, many tactical monkeys (and I say
'monkeys', because 'sniper' is a term I reserve for those that earned
it) use some variant of the Winchester Model 70 or Remington 700 with
a .308 or a 300Mag chamber.
DJ
sp...@controlq.com
> I do have rookie fever but ... I catch on quickly ... I'm trying to broaden
> my hunting range. The Marlin 444P is good for upclose and personal, The SKS
> in 7.62x39 is alright for medium range applications (I'm guessing around
> 600m for deer sized game????) but I want some thing that can be used for
I'd suggest that you might be a little underpowered there. The 7.62x39
was an AK round designed for high rate of fire in an under 200yd hostile
environment (military). The calibre is sufficient (.308), but the rest of
the cartridge is missing 8-). Back to the 308Win (7.62x54).
I would also suggest that the 600yd estimate is a little high. Out of an
SKS, I would imagine you'd have a very tough time shooting MOA at 300yds.
I haven't run a ballistics chart on that round, but I'd be guessing that
you'd have about 7 or 8 FEET of drop at 600 yds, and indirect fire
might not be considered the best way to hunt ;-}. Keep the SKS for very
small deer or large bunnies within 100 yds.
This does, however bring up the point -- if you can't do it in practice,
then you can't do it for real! Take your SKS, and see just how far you
can accurately shoot it. At PAPER TARGETS FIRST!
> longer ranges on Elk, Hig Horn and Wild Boar in the Carpathian Mountain
> range ... It's not uncommon to see game grazing on far off mountain sides
> more than a kilometer away. Besides, I'm thrilled by long range target
> shooting.
No danger of wounding paper, and in my estimate, if you have a
less than 99% chance of a good hit, then you shouldn't take the
shot -- when hunting. My personal philosophy. Shooting game
at a kilometer requires great skill, and an adequate round ...
but anything appropriate (.338 lapua or 50BMG) will make a hell
of a mess of your goat -- so why bother? The skill is in the
stalk. Any nimrod can pull a trigger.
> Is it unethical to hunt at long ranges for the "humane kill" or because
> it's unsportsmanlike???? That druganovs' range is 3800 meters, that's what
> got me interested. Do you know of hunting rifles that have this type of
> range?
You will have to be your own judge of ethics and morals. I personally
would strongly dissuade you from attempting it. With paper targets --
hell, try everything. See what works, have fun -- just do it safely.
And no, hunting rifles do not have that range, they don't need
it. Looking through a 14x scope, you'd barely see a dear sized animal,
never mind shot placement, wind etc. Then there's the logistics of
weight, damage to sights in the field etc. etc.
Essole, may I humbly suggest that you look to joining the DCRA, and
learning about long range shooting first hand. The Palma matches are the
epitome of skill, discipline and patience. When you have mastered the
skill necessary to punch holes on paper at 1000yds, then you can revisit
the idea of hunting at extreme ranges. A good rifle will not make you
into a long range hunter.
Wind, humidity, temperature, bullet sectional density, ballistics
coefficients, trajectory tables and a myriad of other things should be
factored in, and UNDERSTOOD before you are ready even to make a decision
about extreme hunting ranges.
I recently competed in a counter-sniper match which simulated
target/hostages out to 300yds. This was a REAL eye opener.
sp...@controlq.com
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, essole wrote:
>
> > I do have rookie fever but ... I catch on quickly ... I'm trying to broaden
> > my hunting range. The Marlin 444P is good for upclose and personal, The SKS
> > in 7.62x39 is alright for medium range applications (I'm guessing around
> > 600m for deer sized game????) but I want some thing that can be used for
>
> I'd suggest that you might be a little underpowered there. The 7.62x39
> was an AK round designed for high rate of fire in an under 200yd hostile
> environment (military). The calibre is sufficient (.308), but the rest of
> the cartridge is missing 8-). Back to the 308Win (7.62x54).
Ooops, didn't I mean 308Win or 7.62 X 51mm?? Yes, I did, sorry.
The 7.62 X 63 is the 30-06, and the 7.62 X 53 is the
7.62 Russian. And the 7.62 X 39 is just too damn small!
mers-el-kebir
> "essole" <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<plD58.12637$9y2.1...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > Do you get 3800 meter range with something like that Browning in 30-06
or
> > .308 win? The druganov does ...
>
> No, the Dragunov SVD does not, unless you hold it at something
> approaching 30 degrees from the horizontal, and are trying to hit a
> warehouse ;-). You might want to take reading that sort of thing with
> a grain of salt. A thousand yards, in the hands of a practiced sniper,
> under idea conditions, yes. Two thousand in the hands of (god rest his
> soul) Carlost Hathcock III, maybe. 3800? No way. Even the 50 cal guys
> don't shoot THAT far accurately.
>
John Kane
US spy satellite?
--
------------------
John Kane
The Rideau Lakes, Ontario Canada
trygve
I would think that someone is getting meters and feet mixed up here.
As for long range hunting I would try the Ultra Mag line from
Remington. I shoot a 7mm Imperial Magnum, the cartridge that the Ultra
Mags are based on, and it is an amazing performer out to 1000 yds. Now
I wouldn't hunt any animals at that range unless I was starving to
death and had no other choice, but if it was the 300 UM out to 600 or
maybe 700.
trygve
trygve
replace scum with shaw to reply
essole
that those 70 or 700 would be the the ticket.
FYI ... the druganov isn't the first firearm I've heard of with a 2 MILE
range.
Topic seems to be out of the "scope" of this newsgroup ...
essole
equivalent of a 7.62x54. Is it interchangable? DCRA sounds interesting, is
that a Canadian/Ontario organisation? I hunt for wild meat/game (I shy away
from steroid laced grocery store meat)... If i remove a a goats head at the
base of it's spine with a high powered rifle at a long range,(personally I
think it would suffer a bit more if you hit it in the vitals) I'd consider
that a humane kill. Won't damage the meat either.
As for the 600 yard thingy ... that was a foolish misconception on my part
... I retract that statement.
Funny you should metion Nimrod ... He's like the "Greek God of Hunting"
or something.
Was that 300 yard competition with open sights or scoped rifles?
<sp...@controlq.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.020130...@schizo.controlq.com...
essole
Chinese, synthetic folding stock, never fired, packed in grease since the
'50's for about $250 Canadian after taxes at Ontario Sporting Goods. Can't
go wrong with a deal like that. They had wooden stock sks's for about $175
after tax. I was told that it's an excellent deer rifle.
<sp...@controlq.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.020130...@schizo.controlq.com...
essole
Check out the link ... are they lying to us? Is this document "Doctored"?news:dwL58.30647$f53.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
sp...@controlq.com
> > how would one even spot a medium animal at 3800m-5000yards ?
>
> US spy satellite?
That would be overkill. I'm sure that the Hubble would do ... now about
those mounts and rings ...
essole
<sp...@controlq.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.21.020130...@schizo.controlq.com...
10x
wrote:
>I agree the 7.62x39 is quite puny. I bought the Norinco SKS 7.62x39,
>Chinese, synthetic folding stock, never fired, packed in grease since the
>'50's for about $250 Canadian after taxes at Ontario Sporting Goods. Can't
>go wrong with a deal like that. They had wooden stock sks's for about $175
>after tax. I was told that it's an excellent deer rifle.
Ouch! I have never paid any more than $130.00 CDN for Norinco SKS
rifles, new - in grease,
Lever, marstar, and Milarm have them for less than $150.00 CDN.
I might pay $175 for a Russian SKS or $200.00 for a new in grease
Yugo....
essole
skeptics ... there hasn't been a post since. I'd bet no-one around here has
ever compared their ballistic calculations to actual bullet flight
characteristics. I tried searching for some ballistic formulae, but all i
found was software packages "calculators". I think people have too much
faith in these ballistic calculators. They probably just slap any old
formula in there and sell it to the general idiots ... oops ... I mean
general public (they'll never know the difference anyways)
Anyhow ... If anyone reads this, post any ballistic formulae and I'll run it
by a real scientist for his opinion. Fair enough?news:o9X58.33665$f53.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
essole
essole
essole
I'm sure they left out barrel length amongst many other variables.
PLZ post your formula.news:I7W58.33504$f53.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Tierney Point
> ever seen a scope with a built in range finder?
I once read that the soviet sniper Vassili Zaitsev once mounted a rifle
scope to the 85mm gun on a T34 tank but found the mass produced ammo too
inaccurate for precise work.
trygve
plot out 3800m and try and hit something. Wont happen, yeah sure maybe
the bullet on a perfect day in perfect conditions is dangerous to that
distance, but I can guarantee you that it is not acclamate to 3800m
nor a viable tool for shooting and killing something at that distance
either. I have seen all sorts of manufacturers say things about their
guns and ammo and a lot of the times they are BS just like this one.
trygve
replace scum with shaw to reply
On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:29:35 -0500, "essole" <ess...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Brocolt
be correct.
"John Kane" <jka...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3C582602...@sympatico.ca...
essole
Ballistic characteristics:
Chamber pressure: max 3448 bar (50.000 psi)
Accuracy: Mean radius max 12.7 cm at 549 m (5.0 in at 600 yd)
quote from site i found ... 838 m/s ... sorry i meant "flat"
"essole" <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5oL58.30636$f53.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "Killing Range 3800m"
> I believe the calibre is 7.62x52 mm
> muzzle velocity is 830 m/s
> 9.6 gram "ordinary bullet with steel core"
> retained velocity ?????
> "10x" <1...@canoemail.com> wrote in message
> news:3c574901....@news.telusplanet.net...
> > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:41:02 -0500, "essole" <ess...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > That druganovs' range is 3800 meters, that's what
> > >got me interested. Do you know of hunting rifles that have this type
of
> > >range?
> > >Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > What is the caliber of the "draganuv"?
> > What bullet weight is used?
> > What is the muzzle velocity.
> > What is the bullet shape. (ballistic coefficient)?
> > What is the retained veolcity of this bullet at 3800M?
> >
> > At anything over 350 M you had better have a very accurate rangefinder
> > as bullet drop becomes a signifcant factor.
> > At 1000M a error in distance of 50 meters can mean a vertical error of
> > over a foot in bullet impact. Couple this with the vagaries of wind,
> > updrafts and downdrafts and you will increase the likelyhood of a
> > miss.
>
> >
> This rifle probably shoots flat out to 2000 meters.
>
>
> > Just because a cartridge has the capability to shoot 3800 meters
> > doesn't mean it can be shot accurately at that distance without
> > accounting for all of the variables.
> >
>
> Just because I can't shoot accurately at 3800 m doesn't mean I don't want
to
> shoot accurately at 1800 m.
>
essole
essole
i wouldn't buy it until i figure out which gun I like best.
"trygve" <try...@scum.ca> wrote in message
news:5t7k5uk4c9833icls...@4ax.com...
essole
range rifle. I don't think 1.3 km is absurd for big game with a nice rifle.
or is it???? i dunno. I came across these hunting rifles made after the the
SVD ... they seem to be identical, just nicer stocks. For example, but i
don't want to limit myself to a gun. I want to know what's out there.
check out TIGR-9 and TIGR-308 self loading carbines at this link
http://www.izhmash.udm.ru/arms/hunt.html
7.62x51mm Ball
Accuracy: Mean radius max 12.7 cm at 549 m (5.0 in at 600 yd)
That's the .308 right?
"Brocolt" <bro...@autobahn.mb.ca> wrote in message
news:4nq68.673$8i2....@news2.mts.net...
DJ
> range rifle. I don't think 1.3 km is absurd for big game with a nice rifle.
> or is it???? i dunno.
It is ;-).
The tricky bit is hitting a grapefruit at the range you are shooting.
That means grouping your rounds in the 6" kill zone of the average big
game animal. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be shooting at that
range.
There are two main things that can ruin a long range shooter's day:
At 1.3km (call it 1300 meters) you start to get into the syndrome
that is familiar to every bow hunter. "Hang Time". The bullet at that
distance is in flight for something more than a second and a half. If
your target is immobile, that's ok (disregarding wind and range
estimation ;-). If it's moving, even walking, it could move several
FEET in a second and a half. That turns your one-shot-kill into a
badly wounded, suffering animal.
The next problem is accuracy of the rifle and your round. Standard,
state of the art sniper rifles are required to meet a 1/4MOA accuracy
rating. That means, basically, that it will group a 1/4" at 100 yards
(~1/2cm at 91meters).
So, taking your example below of quite respectable accuracy out of a
SVD rifle (5" at 600m), at 1300m (1421 yds) that group, PERFECTLY
FIRED has opened up to about a 12 inch group. A shot then just
potentially hit the deer in the guts, and it's gonna wander off and
die horribly in a few days. And since it's almost a mile away, it's
gonna be long gone, quite likely, by the time you get there.
Using that math, under *perfect* conditions, that rifle is a 700 yard
big game rifle, not 1400.
Now, going back to it's origional purpose, hitting a foot from point
of aim on an enemy soldier is still often a hit, and still potentially
lethal, albeit painful and ugly. So yes, it is a 1300m battle sniper
rifle.
It is not, however, a 1300m hunting rifle.
> I came across these hunting rifles made after the the
> SVD ... they seem to be identical, just nicer stocks.
Very popular thing to do, actually. Alot of military rifles end up
with "sporter" stocks to make them look "prettier" and more
"respectable".
> 7.62x51mm Ball
> Accuracy: Mean radius max 12.7 cm at 549 m (5.0 in at 600 yd)
> That's the .308 right?
It's very close, but not exactly. In most firearms, it *IS*
interchangable.
DJ
DJ
> I'd really really like to see the formula you used to calculate those specs.
> I'm sure they left out barrel length amongst many other variables.
> PLZ post your formula.
muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient, and the laws of gravity.
The software I use is called Ballistics Master v 1.00. If you want a
copy, I can email it to you. It's only about 100k.
DJ
10x
wrote:
>It got pretty quiet in here all the sudden .... I was saving the link for
>skeptics ... there hasn't been a post since. I'd bet no-one around here has
>ever compared their ballistic calculations to actual bullet flight
>characteristics. I tried searching for some ballistic formulae, but all i
>found was software packages "calculators". I think people have too much
>faith in these ballistic calculators. They probably just slap any old
>formula in there and sell it to the general idiots ... oops ... I mean
>general public (they'll never know the difference anyways)
>Anyhow ... If anyone reads this, post any ballistic formulae and I'll run it
>by a real scientist for his opinion. Fair enough?
Read "Hatchers Notebook" published by Stackpole. An illuminating
compilation of experimentation with bullets and balistics.
The best long range rifle is an artillery piece with a bore over two
inches and a bullet designed to stabillize at the rate of twist in the
rifle bore. Hunting rifles with their "light" bullets can not even
come near the large bores with their big bullets.
It has been my personal experiance that it is easier to shoot a small
group at 500M with a 45-70 than with a .30/06. The 45/70 tends to
shoot a small group at this range with all bullet weights - diferent
point of impact for each bullet weight, my .30/06 will shoot good
groups with some bullets weights and styles and poor with others.
What is a good group for me at 500M - eight inches, at 16 inches I
can no longer call it a group without laughing.
And you are right. If you know the data table used to develop the
ballistic coefficient for a specific bullet, you can calculate the
trajectory reasonably accurately. If the B.C. was developed on a
diferent data set then there will be errors in your calculated
trajectory. Remember too, ballistic coeficient changes with velocity
- with the most changes happening as the bullet decelerates below 1400
fps.
Some bullets and loads in some rifles will be surpisingly accurate,
some bullets accuracy will fall off with the reduction in velocity and
the groups open up with distance. The same bullet fired at a higher
velocity will tighten up the groups at 500 M. -if you can call
dropping group size from 24 inches to about 14 inches tight...
I learned this one with a .303 and cast bullets...
Read Hatcher's Notebook, shoot a lot at long range.
10x
wrote:
>i wouldn't buy it until i figure out which gun I like best.
This is a very good attitude. Find out what is out there. Actually
get to shoot it and see how you like it, then decide.
As for shooting at long range, part of the satisifaction of the hunt
is stalking the animal to ensure a humane kill. Sneaking up to less
than 100m to an animal that has had a lifetime of survival skills and
is alert 24/7, coupled with very accute vision, sense of smell, and
hearing is rewarding. Stalking an animal also ensures you know exactly
what you are shooting and gives you an idea of where the bullet will
travel if you miss or the bullet continues through the animal.
essole
that's a lot more accuracy than anybody needs in the real world. All my
experimentation was conducted with Hornady 150-grain FMJ BT, and no doubt a
168- or 190-grain bullet would hold up better at ranges for which the SSG
was intended.
A curious thing about the SSG's accuracy - it seems to improve with
distance. At ranges under 200 yards the Green Gun does well, but nothing
significantly better than many other .308 bolt actions. However, from 300
back - say, to 600 or 700 - the MOA figures usually tighten up. I've never
had occasion to group on paper at over 600 so I can't draw any definite
conclusions. However, in the advanced rifle course at Gunsite, the angular
Austrian was throwing dust on an orange one-gallon can at about 700 yards
once the elevation was corrected.
"DJ" <dj_mac...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8b05f0a.02020...@posting.google.com...
essole
the cartridge to do what was wanted and then designed the weapon to suit.
The cartridge case is of part-plastic construction and carries a 36-gram
(1.25 ounce) tungsten flechette which has a muzzle velocity of 4920 ft/sec
(1500 m/sec) and an effective range up to 2000 meters, depending upon the
type of target. At 800 meters range this fiechette has penetrated 40mm of
rolled steel armor and then shattered behind the plate to give severe
fragmentation damage.
amr 5075news:5br68.36076$9y2.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
essole
you can count on the .308 to do its job and incapacitate the target. The US
Army preaches an 800 meter maximum effective range for the .308, the USMC
preaches a 1000 yard (915 meter) max effective range. While I have made hits
at 1000 meters and beyond with the .308, I would have to agree with the Army
and say that 800 meters is the limit for RELIABLE hits. After that the .308
is dropping like a rock and is inconsistent. As an all around sniping round
that works great for both Law Enforcement and military sniping, the .308 is
hard to beat!
"essole" <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WHq68.35977$9y2.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
essole
Maximum Effective Range . . . 1100+ meters
Additional Features:
1 piece scope mount
Parker-Hale bipod
Black, custom-fitted case
Tool kit
Cleaning kit
The PM Super Magnum, or Super Magnum (SM) as it is now known, is esentially
an Artic Warfare rifle upgraded to accept the high power cartridges,
especially the .338 Lapua. The barrel is slightly longer to take full
potential of the .338, and the range is increased signifcantly. This rifle
is approaching the range of the .50 cals, but yet its only slightly heavier
then the standard 7.62mm version of the rifle. Accuracy of all the AI rifles
gets down around .5 MOA.
"Brocolt" <bro...@autobahn.mb.ca> wrote in message
news:4nq68.673$8i2....@news2.mts.net...
essole
the muzzle. At 1500 meters it still retains more than a thousand
foot-pounds of energy. The greater retained energy combined with the larger
cross section of the .338 projectile, provides a round that hits
spectacularly hard even at extreme ranges. When simply "hitting" a target
isn't enough choose a Dakota Longbow in .338 LM for total results.news:jok68.33793$9y2.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
essole
meters in its .338 configuration. It generates up to 5250 ft. lbs. of muzzle
"Tierney Point" <tier...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:Yql68.1767$Ek1.1...@news-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
essole
meters in its .338 configuration. It generates up to 5250 ft. lbs. of muzzle
Oh well ... I'm not getting ripped off next time ...
"10x" <1...@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:3c585fe3....@news.telusplanet.net...
essole
meters in its .338 configuration. It generates up to 5250 ft. lbs. of muzzle
...
The 338 LM retains more energy at 600 meters than the 308 Match round has at
the muzzle. At 1500 meters it still retains more than a thousand
foot-pounds of energy. The greater retained energy combined with the larger
cross section of the .338 projectile, provides a round that hits
spectacularly hard even at extreme ranges. When simply "hitting" a target
isn't enough choose a Dakota Longbow in .338 LM for total results.
I don't really care what ppl say ... I'd use this gun to 1300 m any day.
"DJ" <dj_mac...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8b05f0a.02020...@posting.google.com...
essole
Most customers are opting for the Erma SR100 in a combination of .308 &
.338. You can shoot all day long in .308 - the recoil in .308 has been
likened to that of a .223 on a heavy frame rifle. Then changeout to .338 and
print a few groups at the 1,000 yard line. Steve Comus, in reviewing this
rifle for the February, 1997 issue of Gun World printed a .13" group at 100
yards in .338 Lapua. Four other shooters with him all printed sub .20"
groups. They went out to 750 yards, got bored, went out to 1,500 yards and
all five shooters printed a sub 9" group (shooting at a pie plate all five
printed in the flat of the plate).
"essole" <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WHq68.35977$9y2.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
essole
Raytheon Thermal Imaging Weaponsight, Model W1000, shown in above photos
will discern a human sized target out to 1000 meters
"essole" <ess...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jok68.33793$9y2.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Jim Morrison
Accuracy International(UK) Super Mag Sniper Rifle......
Cal:.338
Muzzle Velocity: 3000ft second/914m second
Weight: 15lb
Barrel Lg: 27in
Magazine: 4rd
this gun has a special ice resisitant bolt that allows temperations down
to -40 degrees and guarantees to maintain a 3/4 inch target at 110
yards.....
famille ducharme
caliber...........0.5 min of angle(MOA) at 1500 meters or you get your 6800$
back..
Simon
"Jim Morrison" <getj...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23564-3C6...@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Ken Pisichko
rifle used by a Canadian DCRA competitor who has (due to age) decided to stop
shooting. These rifles are used to 1000 yards and have iron (aka peep) sights.
They are designed for prone shooting in a deliberate way.
You might want to look for one. Common names are Sportco (Australian),
Parker-Hale (currently used by the Canadian army as one of their sniper
rifles), Musgrave (a South African Action that was to win the 1999 Long Range
World Championships and will still be a strong contender in the 2003
Championships).
Forget the US made Remingtons and Winchesters. No one is serious LR shooting
uses them today (except perhaps US shooters).
If you need more info contact me directly. I supply both Canadian and US
shooters with LR equipment.
Ken
essole wrote:
> I'm planning for a future purchase of a long range rifle.
> I'd like to know peoples opinions on:
> 1. The best value for the money
> 2. The best rifle bar none
> 3. The best calibre
> 4. The best bolt action
> 5. The best semi-auto action
>
> I usually buy something only once so I'll have to compare the pros and cons
> of value vs. performance.
>
> I find the 7.62 SVD Druganov Sniper Rifle really appealling ... is that a
> prohibited firearm?
>
Alex Cunningham
"Ken Pisichko" <ke...@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3C6F2320...@mb.sympatico.ca...
> If you are looking for a LR rifle, may I suggest a single shot bolt action
> rifle used by a Canadian DCRA competitor who has (due to age) decided to
stop
> shooting. These rifles are used to 1000 yards and have iron (aka peep)
sights.
> They are designed for prone shooting in a deliberate way.
>
> You might want to look for one. Common names are Sportco (Australian),
> Parker-Hale (currently used by the Canadian army as one of their sniper
> rifles), Musgrave (a South African Action that was to win the 1999 Long
Range
> World Championships and will still be a strong contender in the 2003
> Championships).
>
> Forget the US made Remingtons and Winchesters. No one is serious LR
shooting
> uses them today (except perhaps US shooters).
>
> If you need more info contact me directly. I supply both Canadian and US
> shooters with LR equipment.
>
> Ken
>
--
Cheers.
Alex C.
There are 12,000,000 sheep in Ontario.
Problem is 9,000,000 of them think they are people.
Ken Pisichko
Winchester. If they shoot F-class then they use almost anything. They are not
allowed a magnum nor any cartridge over 8mm. Most seem to use 22-250 and 6.5-284
calibers. Some are now trying the .300 WSM.
There are quite a number of used .223 and .308 target rifles out there, just
start looking at a DCRA range or contact them at off...@dcra.ca for information
as to the provincial rifle association in your location....
Ken
stef
be suitable for hunting deer and moose? what caliber are we talking about
here?
tia
Stef, Montreal.
I'm also looking for a rifle for next hunting season.
Alex Cunningham <ca...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:u6unetq...@corp.supernews.com...
northrnpirate
an excellent long range deer and antelope rifle
I personally feel it falls short as a big game rifle.
"Mack" <beeg...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:emgf7u0rvu0c64n35...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:59:23 -0500, "stef" <herbe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm curious about how much such a used rifle would go for ? also , would
it
> >be suitable for hunting deer and moose? what caliber are we talking about
> >here?
> >tia
> >Stef, Montreal.
> >I'm also looking for a rifle for next hunting season.
> >
> >
> I had a chance to use one of these competiton rifles once
> they are not the type of rifle you would want to take hunting
> they have 26-30 inch bull barrels
> they are single shot only
> personally, I would recommend a Remington Pump action in .270 or 30-06 for
hunting
> moose or deer in Canada,they are as accurate as a bolt..but the second
shot is quicker when needed
Alex Cunningham
"northrnpirate" <norther...@NoSpamHotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7hSd8.23177$qN3.2...@news1.mts.net...
> Regards, your hunting rifle for moose I would suggest the 30-06 the .270
is
> an excellent long range deer and antelope rifle
> I personally feel it falls short as a big game rifle.
If the shot is placed correctly (Which by the way is the criteria for all
calibers) the .270 Win. is adequate for moose. This is from personal
experience. I did howver upgrade to a .270 Weatherby using 150 gr Nosler
partition bullets. Extremely effective at both long range and close up.
--
Cheers.
Alex C.
There are 12,000,000. sheep in Ontario.
Problem is 9,000,000. of them think they are people.
northrnpirate
let's not beat it to death .270 WSN or 7 mm. Rem-magnum what's the diff?
talk about re-inventing the wheel.
I have many 45-70's it's a wonderful cartridge been around since 1873
now Marlin comes out with the .450 Marlin....
What is this but a 45-70 with Marlin stamped on the brass!
These rifles that are produced by Marlin in both calibre's will give the
same specs.
All in all same crap different pile, these companies must think we riflemen
are fools.
** From the desk of Clive.W **
"Mack" <beeg...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:onai7u4nfpvnsfo50...@4ax.com...
> You're entitled to your personal opinion..I like my .270 Win
> and would put it up against any North American animal
> I know it's limits and it meets my expectations
> Jack O'Connor was certainly impressed with it
> I would consider upgrading to the .270 WSM tho
> This sounds like a real interesting cartridge
GunLover
here..... I shot a 1000 Lb buck a couple of years ago, 3 times with a .300
Wby. MAG (200 Grs Speer GS @ 3,000 fps). It was standing broadside at 225
Mts. And yes, I hit the right places, the lungs, the area above the heart
(not the heart-was shooting off hand :-( ) and with the third I broke a
shoulder. He went down like a rock, but only for a few moments before he
made it back into the woods. My bullets were hitting so hard I could hear
the slap from 225 Mts away!!!
It makes me wonder what a .270 Win would have done.
GunLover
"Alex Cunningham" <ca...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:u7i6dc5...@corp.supernews.com...
1...@canoemail.com
wrote:
>Man, moose sure must be easier to bring down over there than they are over
>here..... I shot a 1000 Lb buck a couple of years ago, 3 times with a .300
>Wby. MAG (200 Grs Speer GS @ 3,000 fps). It was standing broadside at 225
>Mts. And yes, I hit the right places, the lungs, the area above the heart
>(not the heart-was shooting off hand :-( ) and with the third I broke a
>shoulder. He went down like a rock, but only for a few moments before he
>made it back into the woods. My bullets were hitting so hard I could hear
>the slap from 225 Mts away!!!
Golly, I have had moose fall down from one shot from a measly lil ole
.30/06 - every time, at ranges up to seventy five yards.
And a number of folks here have been very successful with .30-30s
A moose with a bullet through the heart/lung area doesn't really care
what gun it was shot from. As long as the bullet has expanded enough
to do damage the moose is dead.
Alex Cunningham
"GunLover" <gunl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5v2hg$2uau$1...@news.securenet.net...
> Man, moose sure must be easier to bring down over there than they are over
> here..... I shot a 1000 Lb buck a couple of years ago, 3 times with a .300
> Wby. MAG (200 Grs Speer GS @ 3,000 fps). It was standing broadside at 225
> Mts. And yes, I hit the right places, the lungs, the area above the heart
> (not the heart-was shooting off hand :-( ) and with the third I broke a
> shoulder. He went down like a rock, but only for a few moments before he
> made it back into the woods. My bullets were hitting so hard I could hear
> the slap from 225 Mts away!!!
>
> It makes me wonder what a .270 Win would have done.
>
> GunLover
Don't think much of your choice of bullets.
Out of the 4 moose I have personally taken at ranges between 100 and 300 yds
not one of them got more than 10 ft before keeling over. The partition
bullet into the boiler room, in each case shredded the lungs rendering
movement by the animal virtually impossible. I have also re-loaded for
several other hunters and they have all experienced similar results.
My native sidekick however would never use anything but his .32 win special
and he never had to track a moose more than 50 yds before finding them dead
as the proverbial doornail.