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WW2: Who won, Who lost, and why the war?
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A Moose in Love
Sep 15, 2019, 6:47:45 AM9/15/19
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https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/who-won-and-who-lost-world-war-ii
Patrick Buchanan: Who Won, and Who Lost, World War II?
Sunday, the 80th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Poland, Vice President Mike Pence spoke in Warsaw's Pilsudski Square of "five decades of untold suffering and death that followed" the invasion. Five decades!
What Pence was saying was that, for Poland, World War II did not end in victory but defeat and occupation by an evil empire ruled by one of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century, Josef Stalin.
The "Liberation of Europe," the 75th anniversary of which we celebrated at Omaha Beach on June 6, was a liberation that extended only to the Elbe River in the heart of Germany.
Beyond the Elbe, the Nazis were annihilated, but victory belonged to an equally evil ideology, for the "liberators" of Auschwitz had for decades run an archipelago of concentration camps as large as Himmler's.
So, who really won, and who lost, the war?
Winston Churchill wanted to fight for Czechoslovakia at Munich in 1938, and Britain went to war for Poland in 1939. Yet if both nations ended up under Bolshevik rule for half a century, did Britain win their freedom? And if this was the predictable result of a war in a part of Europe where Nazis confronted Bolsheviks, why did Britain even go to war?
Why did Britain declare war for a cause and country it could not defend? Why did Britain turn a German-Polish war into a world war that would surely bankrupt her and bring down her empire, while she could not achieve her declared war goal — a liberated and independent Poland?
What vital British interest was imperiled by Hitler's retrieval of a port city, Danzig, that had been severed from Germany against the will of its 300,000 people and handed to Poland at Versailles in 1919?
Danzigers never wanted to leave Germany, and 90% wanted to return. Even the British Cabinet thought Germany had a case and Danzig should be returned.
Why then did Britain declare war?
Because Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain had insanely given the Poles a blank check, a war guarantee on March 31, 1939: If Germany uses force to retrieve Danzig, and you resist, we will fight at your side.
Britain's war guarantee guaranteed the war.
Given the cause for which their country went to war, British actions during the war seem inexplicable.
When Stalin's army invaded Poland, Sept. 17, 1939, two weeks after Hitler, Britain did not declare war on the Soviet Union.
The Polish officer corps were executed on Moscow's orders in 1940. When the bodies were unearthed in Katyn in 1943, Churchill, now an ally of Stalin, responded to the Free Poles' request to investigate the atrocity: "There is no use prowling round the three year old graves of Smolensk."
Rather than attack Hitler after he invaded Poland, Britain and France remained behind the Maginot Line and waited until Hitler's armies stormed west on May 10, 1940, the day Churchill took power.
In three weeks, the British army had been defeated and thrown off the continent. In six weeks, France had surrendered.
After Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain in 1940, Britain refused all of Hitler's offers to end the war, holding on till June 1941, when Hitler turned on his partner Stalin and invaded the Soviet Union.
Churchill is the "man of the century" for persuading Britain to stand alone against Nazi Germany in 1940, Britain's "finest hour."
But at war's end, what was the balance sheet of Churchill?
The Poland for which Britain had gone to war was lost to Stalinism and would remain so for the entire Cold War. Churchill would be forced to accede to Stalin's annexation of half of Poland and its incorporation into the Soviet Bloc. To appease Stalin, Churchill declared war on Finland.
Britain would end the war bombed, bled and bankrupt, with her empire in Asia, India, the Mideast and Africa disintegrating. In two decades it would all be gone.
France would end the war after living under Nazi occupation and Vichy rule for five years, lose her African and Asian empire and then sustain defeats and humiliation in Indochina in 1954 and Algeria in 1962.
Who really won the war?
Certainly, the Soviets who, after losses in the millions from the Nazi invasion, ended up occupying Berlin, having annexed the Baltic states and turned Eastern Europe into a Soviet base camp, though Stalin is said to have remarked of a 19th-century czar, "Yes, but Alexander I made it to Paris!"
The Americans, who stayed out longest, ended the war with the least losses of any great power. Yet, America is a part of the West, and the West was the loser of the world wars of the last century.
Indeed, the two wars between 1914 and 1945 may be seen as the Great Civil War of the West, the Thirty Years War of Western Civilization that culminated in the loss of all the Western empires and the ultimate conquest of the West by the liberated peoples of their former colonies.
(Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.)
CNSNews Reader,
The liberal media are terrified of the truth, especially when it leads to uncomfortable questions about their own leftist worldview.
CNSNews covers the stories that the liberal media are afraid to touch. It drives the national debate through real, honest journalism — not by misrepresenting or ignoring the facts.
Patrick Buchanan: Who Won, and Who Lost, World War II?
Sunday, the 80th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Poland, Vice President Mike Pence spoke in Warsaw's Pilsudski Square of "five decades of untold suffering and death that followed" the invasion. Five decades!
What Pence was saying was that, for Poland, World War II did not end in victory but defeat and occupation by an evil empire ruled by one of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century, Josef Stalin.
The "Liberation of Europe," the 75th anniversary of which we celebrated at Omaha Beach on June 6, was a liberation that extended only to the Elbe River in the heart of Germany.
Beyond the Elbe, the Nazis were annihilated, but victory belonged to an equally evil ideology, for the "liberators" of Auschwitz had for decades run an archipelago of concentration camps as large as Himmler's.
So, who really won, and who lost, the war?
Winston Churchill wanted to fight for Czechoslovakia at Munich in 1938, and Britain went to war for Poland in 1939. Yet if both nations ended up under Bolshevik rule for half a century, did Britain win their freedom? And if this was the predictable result of a war in a part of Europe where Nazis confronted Bolsheviks, why did Britain even go to war?
Why did Britain declare war for a cause and country it could not defend? Why did Britain turn a German-Polish war into a world war that would surely bankrupt her and bring down her empire, while she could not achieve her declared war goal — a liberated and independent Poland?
What vital British interest was imperiled by Hitler's retrieval of a port city, Danzig, that had been severed from Germany against the will of its 300,000 people and handed to Poland at Versailles in 1919?
Danzigers never wanted to leave Germany, and 90% wanted to return. Even the British Cabinet thought Germany had a case and Danzig should be returned.
Why then did Britain declare war?
Because Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain had insanely given the Poles a blank check, a war guarantee on March 31, 1939: If Germany uses force to retrieve Danzig, and you resist, we will fight at your side.
Britain's war guarantee guaranteed the war.
Given the cause for which their country went to war, British actions during the war seem inexplicable.
When Stalin's army invaded Poland, Sept. 17, 1939, two weeks after Hitler, Britain did not declare war on the Soviet Union.
The Polish officer corps were executed on Moscow's orders in 1940. When the bodies were unearthed in Katyn in 1943, Churchill, now an ally of Stalin, responded to the Free Poles' request to investigate the atrocity: "There is no use prowling round the three year old graves of Smolensk."
Rather than attack Hitler after he invaded Poland, Britain and France remained behind the Maginot Line and waited until Hitler's armies stormed west on May 10, 1940, the day Churchill took power.
In three weeks, the British army had been defeated and thrown off the continent. In six weeks, France had surrendered.
After Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain in 1940, Britain refused all of Hitler's offers to end the war, holding on till June 1941, when Hitler turned on his partner Stalin and invaded the Soviet Union.
Churchill is the "man of the century" for persuading Britain to stand alone against Nazi Germany in 1940, Britain's "finest hour."
But at war's end, what was the balance sheet of Churchill?
The Poland for which Britain had gone to war was lost to Stalinism and would remain so for the entire Cold War. Churchill would be forced to accede to Stalin's annexation of half of Poland and its incorporation into the Soviet Bloc. To appease Stalin, Churchill declared war on Finland.
Britain would end the war bombed, bled and bankrupt, with her empire in Asia, India, the Mideast and Africa disintegrating. In two decades it would all be gone.
France would end the war after living under Nazi occupation and Vichy rule for five years, lose her African and Asian empire and then sustain defeats and humiliation in Indochina in 1954 and Algeria in 1962.
Who really won the war?
Certainly, the Soviets who, after losses in the millions from the Nazi invasion, ended up occupying Berlin, having annexed the Baltic states and turned Eastern Europe into a Soviet base camp, though Stalin is said to have remarked of a 19th-century czar, "Yes, but Alexander I made it to Paris!"
The Americans, who stayed out longest, ended the war with the least losses of any great power. Yet, America is a part of the West, and the West was the loser of the world wars of the last century.
Indeed, the two wars between 1914 and 1945 may be seen as the Great Civil War of the West, the Thirty Years War of Western Civilization that culminated in the loss of all the Western empires and the ultimate conquest of the West by the liberated peoples of their former colonies.
(Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.)
CNSNews Reader,
The liberal media are terrified of the truth, especially when it leads to uncomfortable questions about their own leftist worldview.
CNSNews covers the stories that the liberal media are afraid to touch. It drives the national debate through real, honest journalism — not by misrepresenting or ignoring the facts.
M I Wakefield
Sep 15, 2019, 12:17:17 PM9/15/19
to
"A Moose in Love" wrote in message
news:1a2cc6ef-c825-4503...@googlegroups.com...
Germany lost.
Its cities were bombed to rubble, with hundreds of thousands killed.
Military losses were 3.2 million killed, 1.2 million missing, and thousands
more permanently disabled ... of course soldiers captured by the Allies
classed as disabled were in a much better situation than their comrades, as
the nazi's love of euthanasia extended to those wounded fighting for their
cause.
Germany ended up divided, and occupied, for decades, and when combined with
the losses from WW1, lost over 1/3 of its land: Danzig is Gdansk now,
Breslau is Wroclaw, Posen is Poznan, Stettin is Szczecin, and Konigsberg is
Kaliningrad.
news:1a2cc6ef-c825-4503...@googlegroups.com...
Germany lost.
Its cities were bombed to rubble, with hundreds of thousands killed.
Military losses were 3.2 million killed, 1.2 million missing, and thousands
more permanently disabled ... of course soldiers captured by the Allies
classed as disabled were in a much better situation than their comrades, as
the nazi's love of euthanasia extended to those wounded fighting for their
cause.
Germany ended up divided, and occupied, for decades, and when combined with
the losses from WW1, lost over 1/3 of its land: Danzig is Gdansk now,
Breslau is Wroclaw, Posen is Poznan, Stettin is Szczecin, and Konigsberg is
Kaliningrad.
A Moose in Love
Sep 15, 2019, 4:30:15 PM9/15/19
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M I Wakefield
Sep 15, 2019, 5:37:45 PM9/15/19
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"A Moose in Love" wrote in message
news:895767e4-3abc-4af7...@googlegroups.com...
> The allies i.e. the Brits and the Soviets bled big time. I wouldn't all
> their victory much of a win. On paper they won. In reality they sure as
> hell bled for their win. They kind of lost. Too many men gone to their
> deaths, and for what?
The Peeler
Sep 15, 2019, 5:40:16 PM9/15/19
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Europe. Gone are the scourges of jewry; banished to the shores of
America or the occupied territories of the Middle East. Only minute
pockets of yid scum infest the continent today. The losers are the
American people and the Palestinians.
Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 12:27:37 AM9/16/19
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Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 12:29:42 AM9/16/19
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Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 12:31:00 AM9/16/19
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A Moose in Love
Sep 16, 2019, 7:20:29 AM9/16/19
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Dave Smith
Sep 16, 2019, 2:45:10 PM9/16/19
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Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 3:28:15 PM9/16/19
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A Moose in Love
Sep 16, 2019, 4:34:52 PM9/16/19
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M I Wakefield
Sep 16, 2019, 4:46:16 PM9/16/19
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"A Moose in Love" wrote in message
news:abe80d1e-3018-438d...@googlegroups.com...
> And I am posting to condemn Britain.
A Moose in Love
Sep 16, 2019, 4:48:43 PM9/16/19
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A Moose in Love
Sep 16, 2019, 4:51:38 PM9/16/19
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Message has been deleted
M I Wakefield
Sep 16, 2019, 5:17:33 PM9/16/19
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"A Moose in Love" wrote in message
news:c097397c-5c04-464b...@googlegroups.com...
> My Dad fought against legitimate CCCP opponents.
Only if your dad was from a country the Russians invaded first.
news:c097397c-5c04-464b...@googlegroups.com...
> My Dad fought against legitimate CCCP opponents.
The Peeler
Sep 16, 2019, 5:22:58 PM9/16/19
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postings prove that you are whacked out of your mind. Get help.
Dhu on Gate
Sep 16, 2019, 7:31:35 PM9/16/19
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On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 03:47:44 -0700, A Moose in Love wrote:
>
> Danzigers never wanted to leave Germany, and 90% wanted to return. Even
> the British Cabinet thought Germany had a case and Danzig should be
> returned.
>
> Why then did Britain declare war?
>
Because the NAZIs were driving a Slave-powered War Machine that was closer to
>
> Danzigers never wanted to leave Germany, and 90% wanted to return. Even
> the British Cabinet thought Germany had a case and Danzig should be
> returned.
>
> Why then did Britain declare war?
>
England than the other Slave Empire of the day.
Dhu
--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglaise.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
http://babayaga.neotext.ca/PublicKeys/Duncan_Patton_a_Campbell_pubkey.txt
Dave Smith
Sep 16, 2019, 7:37:33 PM9/16/19
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On 2019-09-16 4:57 p.m., M I Wakefield wrote:
> "A Moose in Love" wrote in message
> news:e8afb13c-8dfc-4350...@googlegroups.com...
> "A Moose in Love" wrote in message
> it's a really good thing that they lost.
The British had allies who agreed with their cause.
Dave Smith
Sep 16, 2019, 7:42:54 PM9/16/19
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WWI and then, through a series of violations of the Treaty of
Versailles, started a second war. It is also inconvenient for him to
acknowledge that Germany and the USSR had a mutual non-aggression treaty
that allowed Hitler to renege on the Munich Agreement and invade
Poland, despite British threats that they to do so would mean war.
Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 9:05:56 PM9/16/19
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Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 9:20:46 PM9/16/19
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Why not a vending machine for ppl with alcohol abuse disorder? Sell us the bourbon, beer (imported please) or wine from a dispensary and since we have medical condition it shouldn't be subject to tax :-) I would also insist on safe drinking sites. Kelly's Pub where I hang out had a fight both Friday and Saturday.
Britain did a heroic and courageous job in both World War 1 and 2 as well as in the Falklands.
Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 9:21:23 PM9/16/19
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Greg Carr
Sep 16, 2019, 9:24:45 PM9/16/19
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A Moose in Love
Sep 17, 2019, 6:56:36 AM9/17/19
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A Moose in Love
Sep 17, 2019, 7:00:22 AM9/17/19
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M I Wakefield
Sep 17, 2019, 8:07:18 AM9/17/19
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"A Moose in Love" wrote in message
news:6ef9146d-f59a-4a76...@googlegroups.com...
> It's convenient for you though to condone the rape and/or murder of
> innocent civilians because they happen to be of a certain cultural group.
> That kind of thinking is nazi type thinking.
Belgians, French, Czechs, Hungarians, Yugoslavs, Greeks, etcetera, etcetera,
etcetera.
> It is inconvenient for you to admit that GB started WW2 by declaring war
> on Germany.
they could get away with it is also the fault of no one but the Germans.
> I have always acknowledged the fact that the Germans and Soviets had a non
> aggression treaty. You're lying again Smith.
enough for a gold-star.
Dave Smith
Sep 17, 2019, 11:44:26 AM9/17/19
to
the apologists whined that he was just protecting his country from
foreign invaders. He was Canadian and had been taken there by his
Egyptian born father to fight along other foreign born jihadists. They
were the invaders.
Dave Smith
Sep 17, 2019, 12:01:38 PM9/17/19
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On 2019-09-17 6:56 a.m., A Moose in Love wrote:
> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 7:42:54 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2019-09-16 5:17 p.m., M I Wakefield wrote:
>> It is inconvenient for him to admit that Germany had started and
>> lost WWI and then, through a series of violations of the Treaty
>> of Versailles, started a second war. It is also inconvenient for
>> him to acknowledge that Germany and the USSR had a mutual
>> non-aggression treaty that allowed Hitler to renege on the Munich
>> Agreement and invade Poland, despite British threats that they to
>> do so would mean war.
>
> It's convenient for you though to condone the rape and/or murder of
> innocent civilians because they happen to be of a certain cultural
> group.
Show me where I condoned it. I acknowledged that the the Russians were
> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 7:42:54 PM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2019-09-16 5:17 p.m., M I Wakefield wrote:
>> It is inconvenient for him to admit that Germany had started and
>> lost WWI and then, through a series of violations of the Treaty
>> of Versailles, started a second war. It is also inconvenient for
>> him to acknowledge that Germany and the USSR had a mutual
>> non-aggression treaty that allowed Hitler to renege on the Munich
>> Agreement and invade Poland, despite British threats that they to
>> do so would mean war.
>
> It's convenient for you though to condone the rape and/or murder of
> innocent civilians because they happen to be of a certain cultural
> group.
bent on revenge. FWIW... my sister in law was about 6 at the end of the
war and remembers Russian guards protecting their apartment building.
> That kind of thinking is nazi type thinking. It is
> inconvenient for you to admit that GB started WW2 by declaring war on
> Germany.
to honour the international borders that were established by the Treaty
of Versailles, the one at the end of the world war that Germany had
started. Hitler started violating the terms of the treaty. German was
relieved of some of the onerous reparations, which had been no worse
than those forced on the French at the end of the Franco Prussian War.
It militarized the Rhineland. It annexed Austria, it annexed part of
Czechoslovakia and then the rest of it. Hitler was appeased each time,
but they stood firm and came up with the Munich Agreement that insisted
there be no more territory grabs and the British warned that they would
not tolerate any more violations. Hitler called their bluff by
*invading* Poland. Yet, you keep dreaming that this means the UK
started the war.
> I have always acknowledged the fact that the Germans and
> Soviets had a non aggression treaty. You're lying again Smith.
violating, allowed German to invade Poland, a sovereign country that was
protected by a treaty.
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