Part of the ObamaTapDance? - "Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health Care Reform"
C.Tudor
Care Reform"
Is anyone surprised by this?
Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've
accepted from the Pharmaceutical Industry during the last five years:
-- Anyone can make their opinion known:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/business/16drugprices.html?th&emc=th
NY Times
November 16, 2009
Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health Care Reform By DUFF WILSON
Even as drug makers promise to support Washington�s health care overhaul
by shaving $8 billion a year off the nation�s drug costs after the
legislation takes effect, the industry has been raising its prices at
the fastest rate in years.
In the last year, the industry has raised the wholesale prices of
brand-name prescription drugs by about 9 percent, according to industry
analysts. That will add more than $10 billion to the nation�s drug bill,
which is on track to exceed $300 billion this year. By at least one
analysis, it is the highest annual rate of inflation for drug prices
since 1992.
The drug trend is distinctly at odds with the direction of the Consumer
Price Index, which has fallen by 1.3 percent in the last year.
Drug makers say they have valid business reasons for the price
increases. Critics say the industry is trying to establish a higher
price base before Congress passes legislation that tries to curb drug
spending in coming years.
�When we have major legislation anticipated, we see a run-up in price
increases,� says Stephen W. Schondelmeyer, a professor of pharmaceutical
economics at the University of Minnesota. He has analyzed drug pricing
for AARP, the advocacy group for seniors that supports the House health
care legislation that the drug industry opposes.
A Harvard health economist, Joseph P. Newhouse, said he found a similar
pattern of unusual price increases after Congress added drug benefits to
Medicare a few years ago, giving tens of millions of older Americans
federally subsidized drug insurance. Just as the program was taking
effect in 2006, the drug industry raised prices by the widest margin in
a half-dozen years.
�They try to maximize their profits,� Mr. Newhouse said.
But drug companies say they are having to raise prices to maintain the
profits necessary to invest in research and development of new drugs as
the patents on many of their most popular drugs are set to expire over
the next few years.
�Price adjustments for our products have no connection to health care
reform,� said Ron Rogers, a spokesman for Merck, which raised its prices
about 8.9 percent in the last year, according to a stock analyst�s report.
This year�s increases mean the average annual cost for a brand-name
prescription drug that is taken daily would be more than $2,000 � $200
higher than last year, Professor Schondelmeyer said.
And this means that the cost of many popular drugs has risen even
faster. Merck, for example, now sells daily 10-milligram pills of
Singulair, the blockbuster asthma drug, at a wholesale price of $1,330 a
year � $147 more than last year. Singulair is now selling at retail, on
drugstore.com, for nearly $1,478 a year.
The drug companies �can charge what they want � it�s not fair,� Eric
White, the 42-year-old owner of a small jewelry store in Queens, said as
he left a pharmacy recently.
Despite having drug insurance, Mr. White says he now pays $110 a month
out of pocket for two brand-name allergy medicines, even as he has cut
prices in his jewelry store by at least 40 percent to keep customers
coming through the door.
He shook his head. �What can I do?� he said. �I need my medicines.�
The drug industry has actively opposed some of the cost-cutting
provisions in the House legislation, which passed Nov. 7 and aims to cut
drug spending by about $14 billion a year over a decade.
But the drug makers have been proudly citing the agreement they reached
with the White House and the Senate Finance Committee chairman to trim
$8 billion a year � $80 billion over 10 years � from the nation�s drug
bill by giving rebates to older Americans and the government. That
provision is likely to be part of the legislation that will reach the
Senate floor in coming weeks.
But this year�s price increases would effectively cancel out the savings
from at least the first year of the Senate Finance agreement. And some
critics say the surge in drug prices could change the dynamics of the
entire 10-year deal.
�It makes it much easier for the drug companies to pony up the $80
billion because they�ll be making more money,� said Steven D. Findlay,
senior health care analyst with the advocacy group Consumers Union.
Name-brand prices have risen even as prices of widely used generic drugs
have fallen by about 9 percent in the last year, Professor Schondelmeyer
said. But name brands account for 78 percent of total prescription drug
spending in this country. And as long as a name-brand drug still has
patent protection it faces no price competition from generics.
Ken Johnson, senior vice president of the industry association � the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America � criticized the
analysis Professor Schondelmeyer had conducted for AARP, saying it was
politically motivated.
�In AARP�s skewed view of the world, medicines are always looked at as a
cost and never seen as a savings � even though medicines often reduce
unnecessary hospitalization, help avoid costly medical procedures and
increase productivity through better prevention and management of
chronic diseases,� he said.
But Professor Schondelmeyer�s analysis � which found prices for the
name-brand drugs most widely used by the Medicare population rising by
9.3 percent in the last year, the fastest rate since 1992 � is in line
with the findings of a leading Wall Street analyst, too.
Catherine J. Arnold, a drug industry analyst at Credit Suisse, said her
latest study of the nation�s eight biggest pharmaceutical companies
showed markedly similar results: list prices rising an average of 8.7
percent in the 12 months ending Sept. 30 � the highest rate of growth
since at least 2004.
As does Professor Schondelmeyer, Ms. Arnold based her price calculations
on reported wholesale prices and a formula that puts more emphasis on
each company�s best-selling drugs.
Ms. Arnold said the prospect of cost containment under health care
reform, as well as the tougher business environment, entered into the
decisions of manufacturers to raise prices this year.
The industry stands to gain about 30 million customers with drug
insurance from the legislation pending in Congress. But the industry
also faces the prospect of tougher negotiations from both public and
private buyers as the government tries to squeeze savings out of the
health system.
�If you�re going to take price increases,� Ms. Arnold said, �here and
now might be the place to do that, because the next year and the year
after that might be tough.�
Mr. Johnson did not dispute the Credit Suisse study or deny Ms. Arnold�s
finding that American drug makers have raised prices at the fastest rate
in five years.
He said both studies were incomplete by failing to include rebates that
drug makers give distributors. But Ms. Arnold, Professor Schondelmeyer
and a 2007 Congressional study of Medicare said the rebates often accrue
to the middlemen, not consumers, and higher manufacturer prices lead to
higher retail prices.
And the drug industry�s own major consulting firm, IMS Health, has also
reported a significant run-up in prices. Back in April, IMS predicted
that United States drug sales might actually decline this year.
Billy Tauzin, president of the industry�s trade association, highlighted
the gloomy prediction in a June 1 letter to President Obama shortly
before striking the deal to cut drug costs by $80 billion. In
negotiating the deal, the drug makers argued that they could not afford
to give up more than that.
But in October, IMS made an unusual change in the middle of its
forecasting cycle, saying it now believed United States sales would grow
at least 4.5 percent in 2009 � or $21 billion more than expected six
months earlier.
A major reason, IMS said, was higher-than-expected price increases for
drugs in the United States.
Butteye_Jest
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Part of the ObamaTapDance? - "Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health
> Care Reform"
>
> Is anyone surprised by this?
No. The neo-cons and other right-wing have filled the heads of the
people with anti-socialist bullshit, and sold completely out to big
business, and you expect Obama to reverse all the damage in less than a
year?
No. I am not surprised in your idiocy, but you should be.
>
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've
> accepted from the Pharmaceutical Industry during the last five years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/business/16drugprices.html?th&emc=th
> NY Times
> November 16, 2009
> Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health Care Reform By DUFF WILSON
> Even as drug makers promise to support Washington�s health care overhaul
> by shaving $8 billion a year off the nation�s drug costs after the
> legislation takes effect, the industry has been raising its prices at
> the fastest rate in years.
>
> In the last year, the industry has raised the wholesale prices of
> brand-name prescription drugs by about 9 percent, according to industry
> analysts. That will add more than $10 billion to the nation�s drug bill,
> which is on track to exceed $300 billion this year. By at least one
> analysis, it is the highest annual rate of inflation for drug prices
> since 1992.
>
> The drug trend is distinctly at odds with the direction of the Consumer
> Price Index, which has fallen by 1.3 percent in the last year.
>
> Drug makers say they have valid business reasons for the price
> increases. Critics say the industry is trying to establish a higher
> price base before Congress passes legislation that tries to curb drug
> spending in coming years.
>
> �When we have major legislation anticipated, we see a run-up in price
> increases,� says Stephen W. Schondelmeyer, a professor of pharmaceutical
> economics at the University of Minnesota. He has analyzed drug pricing
> for AARP, the advocacy group for seniors that supports the House health
> care legislation that the drug industry opposes.
>
> A Harvard health economist, Joseph P. Newhouse, said he found a similar
> pattern of unusual price increases after Congress added drug benefits to
> Medicare a few years ago, giving tens of millions of older Americans
> federally subsidized drug insurance. Just as the program was taking
> effect in 2006, the drug industry raised prices by the widest margin in
> a half-dozen years.
>
> �They try to maximize their profits,� Mr. Newhouse said.
>
> But drug companies say they are having to raise prices to maintain the
> profits necessary to invest in research and development of new drugs as
> the patents on many of their most popular drugs are set to expire over
> the next few years.
>
> �Price adjustments for our products have no connection to health care
> reform,� said Ron Rogers, a spokesman for Merck, which raised its prices
> about 8.9 percent in the last year, according to a stock analyst�s report.
>
> This year�s increases mean the average annual cost for a brand-name
> prescription drug that is taken daily would be more than $2,000 � $200
> higher than last year, Professor Schondelmeyer said.
>
> And this means that the cost of many popular drugs has risen even
> faster. Merck, for example, now sells daily 10-milligram pills of
> Singulair, the blockbuster asthma drug, at a wholesale price of $1,330 a
> year � $147 more than last year. Singulair is now selling at retail, on
> drugstore.com, for nearly $1,478 a year.
>
> The drug companies �can charge what they want � it�s not fair,� Eric
> White, the 42-year-old owner of a small jewelry store in Queens, said as
> he left a pharmacy recently.
>
> Despite having drug insurance, Mr. White says he now pays $110 a month
> out of pocket for two brand-name allergy medicines, even as he has cut
> prices in his jewelry store by at least 40 percent to keep customers
> coming through the door.
>
> He shook his head. �What can I do?� he said. �I need my medicines.�
>
> The drug industry has actively opposed some of the cost-cutting
> provisions in the House legislation, which passed Nov. 7 and aims to cut
> drug spending by about $14 billion a year over a decade.
>
> But the drug makers have been proudly citing the agreement they reached
> with the White House and the Senate Finance Committee chairman to trim
> $8 billion a year � $80 billion over 10 years � from the nation�s drug
> bill by giving rebates to older Americans and the government. That
> provision is likely to be part of the legislation that will reach the
> Senate floor in coming weeks.
>
> But this year�s price increases would effectively cancel out the savings
> from at least the first year of the Senate Finance agreement. And some
> critics say the surge in drug prices could change the dynamics of the
> entire 10-year deal.
>
> �It makes it much easier for the drug companies to pony up the $80
> billion because they�ll be making more money,� said Steven D. Findlay,
> senior health care analyst with the advocacy group Consumers Union.
>
> Name-brand prices have risen even as prices of widely used generic drugs
> have fallen by about 9 percent in the last year, Professor Schondelmeyer
> said. But name brands account for 78 percent of total prescription drug
> spending in this country. And as long as a name-brand drug still has
> patent protection it faces no price competition from generics.
>
> Ken Johnson, senior vice president of the industry association � the
> Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America � criticized the
> analysis Professor Schondelmeyer had conducted for AARP, saying it was
> politically motivated.
>
> �In AARP�s skewed view of the world, medicines are always looked at as a
> cost and never seen as a savings � even though medicines often reduce
> unnecessary hospitalization, help avoid costly medical procedures and
> increase productivity through better prevention and management of
> chronic diseases,� he said.
>
> But Professor Schondelmeyer�s analysis � which found prices for the
> name-brand drugs most widely used by the Medicare population rising by
> 9.3 percent in the last year, the fastest rate since 1992 � is in line
> with the findings of a leading Wall Street analyst, too.
>
> Catherine J. Arnold, a drug industry analyst at Credit Suisse, said her
> latest study of the nation�s eight biggest pharmaceutical companies
> showed markedly similar results: list prices rising an average of 8.7
> percent in the 12 months ending Sept. 30 � the highest rate of growth
> since at least 2004.
>
> As does Professor Schondelmeyer, Ms. Arnold based her price calculations
> on reported wholesale prices and a formula that puts more emphasis on
> each company�s best-selling drugs.
>
> Ms. Arnold said the prospect of cost containment under health care
> reform, as well as the tougher business environment, entered into the
> decisions of manufacturers to raise prices this year.
>
> The industry stands to gain about 30 million customers with drug
> insurance from the legislation pending in Congress. But the industry
> also faces the prospect of tougher negotiations from both public and
> private buyers as the government tries to squeeze savings out of the
> health system.
>
> �If you�re going to take price increases,� Ms. Arnold said, �here and
> now might be the place to do that, because the next year and the year
> after that might be tough.�
>
> Mr. Johnson did not dispute the Credit Suisse study or deny Ms. Arnold�s
> finding that American drug makers have raised prices at the fastest rate
> in five years.
>
> He said both studies were incomplete by failing to include rebates that
> drug makers give distributors. But Ms. Arnold, Professor Schondelmeyer
> and a 2007 Congressional study of Medicare said the rebates often accrue
> to the middlemen, not consumers, and higher manufacturer prices lead to
> higher retail prices.
>
> And the drug industry�s own major consulting firm, IMS Health, has also
> reported a significant run-up in prices. Back in April, IMS predicted
> that United States drug sales might actually decline this year.
>
> Billy Tauzin, president of the industry�s trade association, highlighted
> the gloomy prediction in a June 1 letter to President Obama shortly
> before striking the deal to cut drug costs by $80 billion. In
> negotiating the deal, the drug makers argued that they could not afford
> to give up more than that.
>
> But in October, IMS made an unusual change in the middle of its
> forecasting cycle, saying it now believed United States sales would grow
> at least 4.5 percent in 2009 � or $21 billion more than expected six
> months earlier.
>
> A major reason, IMS said, was higher-than-expected price increases for
> drugs in the United States.
--
Ole Butteye
C.Tudor
> In article <4b01b053$0$28785$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com>,
> "C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Part of the ObamaTapDance? - "Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health
>> Care Reform"
>>
>> Is anyone surprised by this?
>
> No. The neo-cons and other right-wing have filled the heads of the
> people with anti-socialist bullshit, and sold completely out to big
> business, and you expect Obama to reverse all the damage in less than a
> year?
>
> No. I am not surprised in your idiocy, but you should be.
The ObamaConArtist has already made the deal with the Pharmaceutical
Industry. Did you send the email?
---
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b021b57$0$28772$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> Butteye_Jest wrote:
>> In article <4b01b053$0$28785$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com>,
>> "C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Part of the ObamaTapDance? - "Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health
>>> Care Reform"
>>>
>>> Is anyone surprised by this?
>>
>> No. The neo-cons and other right-wing have filled the heads of the people
>> with anti-socialist bullshit, and sold completely out to big business,
>> and you expect Obama to reverse all the damage in less than a year?
>>
>> No. I am not surprised in your idiocy, but you should be.
>
>
> The ObamaConArtist has already made the deal with the Pharmaceutical
> Industry. Did you send the email?
the fact of the matter is that big pharm, big oil and big corp in general
have had the oval office by the balls for many years now... and we ain't
gonna see much improvement in this over the short term... the upside now is
that, as a society, we're travelling in the right direction toward
eventually minimizing their influence... rather than cultivate those
relationships as the repigs have been doing, obama's at least made some of
the piggies squeal by raising issues like salary caps and placing conditions
on tarp funds... which is entirely the opposite of the previously
sycophantic relationship that the "tinkle down" idiots have been stroking a
deluded public with...
in short, it's going to take either another 50 years to restore some
semblance of balance of power through persistent and consistent and tireless
dedication or it's going to take a peasant's bloody uprising replete with
pitchforks and sending assholes like the aig chair to do "god's work" in her
presence...
C.Tudor
>
>
> "C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4b021b57$0$28772$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
>> Industry. Did you send the email?
>
> the fact of the matter is that big pharm, big oil and big corp in
> general have had the oval office by the balls for many years now... and
> we ain't gonna see much improvement in this over the short term... the
> upside now is that, as a society, we're travelling in the right
> direction toward eventually minimizing their influence... rather than
> cultivate those relationships as the repigs have been doing, obama's at
> least made some of the piggies squeal by raising issues like salary caps
> and placing conditions on tarp funds... which is entirely the opposite
> of the previously sycophantic relationship that the "tinkle down" idiots
> have been stroking a deluded public with...
>
> in short, it's going to take either another 50 years to restore some
> semblance of balance of power through persistent and consistent and
> tireless dedication or it's going to take a peasant's bloody uprising
> replete with pitchforks and sending assholes like the aig chair to do
> "god's work" in her presence...
Did you send the email?
Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've
accepted from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b0369dd$0$28799$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>>
>>
>> "C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b021b57$0$28772$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
>>> The ObamaConArtist has already made the deal with the Pharmaceutical
>>> Industry. Did you send the email?
>>
>> the fact of the matter is that big pharm, big oil and big corp in general
>> have had the oval office by the balls for many years now... and we ain't
>> gonna see much improvement in this over the short term... the upside now
>> is that, as a society, we're travelling in the right direction toward
>> eventually minimizing their influence... rather than cultivate those
>> relationships as the repigs have been doing, obama's at least made some
>> of the piggies squeal by raising issues like salary caps and placing
>> conditions on tarp funds... which is entirely the opposite of the
>> previously sycophantic relationship that the "tinkle down" idiots have
>> been stroking a deluded public with...
>>
>> in short, it's going to take either another 50 years to restore some
>> semblance of balance of power through persistent and consistent and
>> tireless dedication or it's going to take a peasant's bloody uprising
>> replete with pitchforks and sending assholes like the aig chair to do
>> "god's work" in her presence...
>
>
> Did you send the email?
why...?... because you think such a wasted effort actually accomplishes
something besides making you feel good that you've complained...?...
I know... even if you don't make any effort to understand the how and why,
you believe it makes you a patriot if you at least complain... clearly, my
post went over your head... so... you obviously have MUCH homework to do...
unless of course, you're just a mindless reichtoid who figures that it's
okay to bitch and moan and whine while the democrats are in office and you
do nothing when the repiggies are running the show...
if you actually gave a shit about this issue, you would have complained
about it long ago... and you would have learned by now that sending such
generic emails with idiotic questions you can find answers online for to
those addresses you've provided is a fruitless exercise...
here's some homework for you...
Drug Lobby Second to None
How the pharmaceutical industry gets its way in Washington
http://projects.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=723
<excerpt>
WASHINGTON, July 7, 2005 - The pharmaceutical and health products industry
has spent more than $800 million in federal lobbying and campaign donations
at the federal and state levels in the past seven years, a Center for Public
Integrity investigation has found. Its lobbying operation, on which it
reports spending more than $675 million, is the biggest in the nation. No
other industry has spent more money to sway public policy in that period.
Its combined political outlays on lobbying and campaign contributions is
topped only by the insurance industry.
The drug industry's huge investments in Washington-though meager compared to
the profits they make-have paid off handsomely, resulting in a series of
favorable laws on Capitol Hill and tens of billions of dollars in additional
profits. [See What the Industry Got.] They have also fended off measures
aimed at containing prices, like allowing importation of medicines from
countries that cap prescription drug prices, which would have dented their
profit margins. Pfizer, the world's largest drug company, made a profit of
$11.3 billion last year, out of sales of $51 billion.
The industry's multi-faceted influence campaign has also led to a more
industry-friendly regulatory policy at the Food and Drug Administration, the
agency that approves its products for sale and most directly oversees drug
makers.
Most of the industry's political spending paid for federal lobbying.
Medicine makers hired about 3,000 lobbyists, more than a third of them
former federal officials, to advance their interests before the House, the
Senate, the FDA, the Department of Health and Human Services, and other
executive branch offices.
In 2003 alone, the industry spent nearly $116 million lobbying the
government. That was the year that Congress passed, and President George W.
Bush signed, the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003, which created a
taxpayer-funded prescription drug benefit for senior citizens.
That figure was not anomalous. In 2004, drug makers upped their reported
expenditures on lobbyists to $123 million, a record amount for the industry.
Of the 1,291 lobbyists who were listed that year as representing
pharmaceutical corporations and their trade groups, some 52 percent were
former federal officials.
----
here are some more links:
The Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex: A Deadly Fairy Tale
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15758
---
Revealed: millions spent by lobby firms fighting Obama health reforms
Six lobbyists for every member of Congress as healthcare industry heaps cash
on politicians to water down legislation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/01/lobbyists-millions-obama-healthcare-reform
----
Lobbyists Spend Millions to Influence Health Care
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/07/health_care_continues_its_inte.html
---
Corporately Owned Congress Blocking The Way For Meaningful Reform
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/107790
---
and here's a place to start in order to get some answers to your questions:
---
and here's an article summarizing some of those answers:
Special Interest Money Means Longer Odds for Public Option
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/special-interest-money-means-longer.html
<excerpt>
PAC Contributions. Based on data downloaded from OpenSecrets.org, a.k.a. the
Center for Responsive Politics. Contributions were tallied from two industry
codes: F3200 (Accident & Health Insurance) and H3700 (HMO's). Data covers
the 2004, 2006 and 2008 and 2010 campaign cycles. The fundraising data is
adjusted based on the number of cycles that the senator has participated in
as a Congressman (including time spent in the House of Representatives) or
as a candidate, where 2010 is treated as 1/8th of a cycle since one
quarterly report has so far been filed from the two-year period. So, for
example, a senator that ran for and won office in 2006 is treated as
participating in 2 1/8th out of a possible 3 1/8th cycles: 2006 as a
candidate, and then 2008 and the fractional cycle in 2010 as a senator.
Top recipients of PAC money from these industries since 2004 are as follows:
Senator Cycles PAC $
Baucus (D-MT) 3.125 $141,250
McConnell (R-KY) 3.125 $110,750
Nelson (D-NE) 3.125 $106,123
Kyl (R-AZ) 3.125 $106,000
Gregg (R-NH) 3.125 $103,500
Grassley (R-IA) 3.125 $95,000
Lincoln (D-AR) 3.125 $91,000
Enzi (R-WY) 3.125 $87,000
Chambliss (R-GA) 3.125 $86,750
Ensign (R-NV) 3.125 $85,750
======================================
AVERAGE SENATOR $37,267
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and finally... if you have an android phone, you can download a free
application which allows you to search by name and track who's getting what
money from where:
http://sunlightlabs.com/blog/2009/sunlights-first-android-app/
C.Tudor
Yes, your brilliant posts go right over my head. Meanwhile, just send
the email:
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b04c250$0$28740$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
lol... thanks for proving you're too stupid to get off that single track
you've been travelling down... btw... what part of "wasted effort" didn't
you get...?...
oh... that's right... I keep forgetting that imbecilic reichtoids are
incapable of understanding concepts beyond beyond blind obedience and
childish whining....... bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.... 8-D
C.Tudor
> lol... thanks for proving you're too stupid to get off that single track
> you've been travelling down... btw... what part of "wasted effort"
> didn't you get...?...
>
> oh... that's right... I keep forgetting that imbecilic reichtoids are
> incapable of understanding concepts beyond beyond blind obedience and
> childish whining....... bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.... 8-D
Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've
accepted from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the
last five years:
-- Anyone can make their opinion known:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b06203a$0$12629$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
yes... go ahead and do that so you too can pretend you're accomplishing
something of merit while telling yourself that your effort amounts to
nothing more than a tap dance... after all, such hypocritical projection IS
what defines a mindless reichtoid who fears the truth so much that it must
be snipped it away.... after all, if you can't behave like an irrational
juvenile delinquent who pisses in the wind, what else can you use as an
excuse to blame anyone but yourself for your failures...?.... ;-)
Dave Heil
I believe an American who takes such action has a direct effect upon the
American political process--much more so than a Canadian who pretends to
be involved in American politics could have be posting in a newsgroup.
klunk
"Dave Heil" <k8...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:aNvNm.45835$Xf2....@newsfe12.iad...
well knave, you certainly have the ability to believe what you want... it
however, doesn't make it true... ;-)
Dave Heil
Pick a U.S. Congressman or Senator. Give his office a call. Tell him
that you're a Canadian who demands that the U.S. adopt a health care
bill which includes the public option. Let me know how it works out.
klunk
"Dave Heil" <k8...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:PiBNm.19389$ET3....@newsfe17.iad...
lol... it certainly is amusing how impervious reichtoids are to reason...
but... it would be more amusing if such stupidity didn't waste so much time
and resources impeding progress because everyone suffers as a result...
including furriners... as your bush-generated economic collapse proved that
your stupidity actually does fuck up the world... ;-)
Pete
> lol... it certainly is amusing how impervious reichtoids are to reason...
> but... it would be more amusing if such stupidity didn't waste so much time
> and resources impeding progress because everyone suffers as a result...
> including furriners... as your bush-generated economic collapse proved that
> your stupidity actually does fuck up the world... ;-)
>
>
>
>
The reason why Ameicans come to Canada for their pharmaceuticals is because
there is one purchaser of drugs in Canada, the old idea of Economy of Scale.
Why is Canada's single payer system more efficient?
Why can't Americans rate their health care waiting times? And in Canada there
are reports?
Again, single payer. The tax payer pays for the information and it?s right
there in front of your face.
It's always nice when Americans say "They have to wait 3 hours in Canada�.
But that?s because the private system doesn?t give them the information.
Estimated wait times in the USA for Hillbilly Acres South Dakota are not that
far off of Butt Fuck Manitoba.
I live in downtown Toronto. There are more hospitals near where I live, than
my other place in Manhattan. I?d rather be sick in Toronto.
But it?s all about Obama ?killing Granny!� to the fools.
lorad
> Part of the ObamaTapDance? - "Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health
> Care Reform"
>
> Is anyone surprised by this?
>
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've
> accepted from the Pharmaceutical Industry during the last five years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfmhttp://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
> --------------------------------------------------------------http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/business/16drugprices.html?th&emc=th
Damn...
Sounds like old times under Bush Junior... all over again.
Dave Heil
If what you're doing is "reason" then pick up the phone and call the
Congressman or Senator. You can tell us how it went.
> ...but... it would be more amusing if such stupidity didn't waste
> so much time and resources impeding progress because everyone suffers as
> a result... including furriners...
I don't care if interfering foreigners like you have your time wasted.
You don't share American resources and you play no part here so your
pretense in this newsgroup wastes your own time.
> ...as your bush-generated economic
> collapse proved that your stupidity actually does fuck up the world... ;-)
Yep, Canadian bath soap went up in our Family Dollar stores. I'll bet
your life sucks. I'll have to check on how the Canadian Loblolly pine
tongue-in-groove stuff is doing at Lowe's. You may be on the verge of a
total collapse.
klunk
"Dave Heil" <k8...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:JR0Om.36496$6c2....@newsfe03.iad...
lol... hay knave... thanks for proving my point once again... you clearly
haven't the foggiest wtf you're talking about beyond your pitiful need to
identify me as a furriner.... how fucking pathetic...
but... since you clearly don't get the message... let me attempt to get a
simple point into your thick skull.... I'm posting from and to,
"can.politics"... and as has been made abundantly clear, the shit your
country does affects practically every other country on the planet...
furthermore, you assholes have a long history of meddling with other
countries... in fact, we are in your fucking afghanistan nightmare precisely
because the asshole chimp in charge bullied our pm into it.... when your
country learns to respect the sovereignty of other countries and stops their
fucking meddling... perhaps then... and only then will your pitiful whining
have any merit... until then, if you don't like the fact that a furriner
engages in an open debate in an open forum on issues of relevance to your
country, then it's just too fucking bad...
what I do find rather interesting is just how desperate you seem to be to
establish my furrin nature because that only tells me that you indeed do
find my contributions to an open dialogue to be those which intimidate
you... and to that, I say good because you obviously need my input... think
of it as an intervention by a friend who makes you feel uncomfortable but is
actually helping you... such friends as those who will tell you to your face
that you are completely fucked up are the best friends of all... and you
should learn to respect this or just stfu with your pitiful whining because
it only makes you look pathetic... ;-)
>> ...but... it would be more amusing if such stupidity didn't waste so much
>> time and resources impeding progress because everyone suffers as a
>> result... including furriners...
>
> I don't care if interfering foreigners like you have your time wasted. You
> don't share American resources and you play no part here so your pretense
> in this newsgroup wastes your own time.
again stupid.... I have never pretend to be an amerikkkan... I am a
canadian, and damned proud of it... in fact, I've turned down several
opportunities to live there precisely because your country is sooooo fucked
up in soooooo many ways precisely because of the prevalence of imbeciles
like you...
if you actually respected the freedoms you idiotic reichtoids seem to
endlessly whine about while restricting them, you'd accept my choice to
engage in these discussions without your perpetual whining....
>> ...as your bush-generated economic collapse proved that your stupidity
>> actually does fuck up the world... ;-)
>
> Yep, Canadian bath soap went up in our Family Dollar stores. I'll bet
> your life sucks. I'll have to check on how the Canadian Loblolly pine
> tongue-in-groove stuff is doing at Lowe's. You may be on the verge of a
> total collapse.
lol... you can go ahead and tell yourself that but the fact of the matter is
that the only reason our economy has taken a hit is because of stupidity
such as that of yours... and in fact, precisely because of our "socialist
nature", we now stand up as a model to the world for our banking policies...
in fact, we have weathered this economic clusterfuck YOU created better than
every other nation on the planet... so... you go ahead and dream of
destroying your best friend and neighbour because that's all it will ever be
is a dream... meanwhile, the rest of your countrymen have learned to take
their heads out of their asses and are realizing that we do indeed provide
some good examples and some good ideas which will help you resolve your own
problems... ;-)
Harold Burton
"klunk" <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
But since you don't vote our DemocRAT congressmen don't give a damned
about your pathetic whines.
Snicker.
klunk
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-9EDF...@news.newsguy.com...
well, hairy bunion... it's rather irrelevant whether I vote or not because
this is a forum for discourse, not for casting ballots... but, at least you
attempted to post something more adult than what an 8 year old is capable
of... ;-)
Dave Heil
Well lol yourself, Klunt.
> thanks for proving my point once again...
You never seem to have a point.
> you
> clearly haven't the foggiest wtf you're talking about beyond your
> pitiful need to identify me as a furriner.... how fucking pathetic...
Identifying you as a foreigner has never been my object. Identifying
you as a foreigner attempting to interfere in U.S. politics is what I've
done. You're one of a number of radical left fifth columnists doing so.
> but... since you clearly don't get the message... let me attempt to get
> a simple point into your thick skull.... I'm posting from and to,
> "can.politics"...
Then you must be mistakenly addressing your posts to alt.politics, huh?
> ...and as has been made abundantly clear, the shit your
> country does affects practically every other country on the planet...
Here's my invitation for you to go get stuffed.
> furthermore, you assholes have a long history of meddling with other
> countries... in fact, we are in your fucking afghanistan nightmare
> precisely because the asshole chimp in charge bullied our pm into it....
And if once isn't enough, go get stuffed again.
> ...when your country learns to respect the sovereignty of other countries
> and stops their fucking meddling... perhaps then... and only then will
> your pitiful whining have any merit...
I've done no whining at all, much less pitiful. I'd like to extend once
again, in the interests of your radical political views, my invitation
for you to get stuffed.
> ...until then, if you don't like the
> fact that a furriner engages in an open debate in an open forum on
> issues of relevance to your country, then it's just too fucking bad...
Relevance? You attempt to interfere in U.S. domestic politics. If I
don't like it, since this is an open forum, I'll be happy to point out
that you are an irrelevant foreign fifth columnist.
> what I do find rather interesting is just how desperate you seem to be
> to establish my furrin nature because that only tells me that you indeed
> do find my contributions to an open dialogue to be those which
> intimidate you...
If you intimidated me, I'd likely just go away and not write anything.
I'm writing and pointing you out.
> and to that, I say good because you obviously need my
> input... think of it as an intervention by a friend who makes you feel
> uncomfortable but is actually helping you... such friends as those who
> will tell you to your face that you are completely fucked up are the
> best friends of all... and you should learn to respect this or just stfu
> with your pitiful whining because it only makes you look pathetic... ;-)
You don't get to tell anyone to shut up, Klunt. In response to your
explanation, I'll point out that by pointing out your interference in
U.S. politics, I'm simply helping you by letting you know that your best
friend in the U.S. has just told you how farkled up you are. Relax and
learn to respect this.
>>> ...but... it would be more amusing if such stupidity didn't waste so
>>> much time and resources impeding progress because everyone suffers as
>>> a result... including furriners...
>>
>> I don't care if interfering foreigners like you have your time wasted.
>> You don't share American resources and you play no part here so your
>> pretense in this newsgroup wastes your own time.
>
> again stupid....
I didn't call you "stupid", just Canadian.
> I have never pretend to be an amerikkkan...
I never accused you of being an "amerikkkan". I named you as a Canadian
who interferes in U.S. domestic politics.
> I am a
> canadian, and damned proud of it...
That's fine. Stay there and bother Canadians then.
> ...in fact, I've turned down several
> opportunities to live there precisely because your country is sooooo
> fucked up in soooooo many ways precisely because of the prevalence of
> imbeciles like you...
By all means, stay put then. Good luck in fixing all the things which
don't work well in Canada. Keep sending us the cheap bar soap and the
swell loblolly pine tongue-in-groove paneling.
> if you actually respected the freedoms you idiotic reichtoids seem to
> endlessly whine about while restricting them, you'd accept my choice to
> engage in these discussions without your perpetual whining....
My American freedoms are not your freedom to interfere in our politics.
We can be really good neighbors if you mind your business and let us
tend to ours.
>>> ...as your bush-generated economic collapse proved that your
>>> stupidity actually does fuck up the world... ;-)
>>
>> Yep, Canadian bath soap went up in our Family Dollar stores. I'll bet
>> your life sucks. I'll have to check on how the Canadian Loblolly pine
>> tongue-in-groove stuff is doing at Lowe's. You may be on the verge of
>> a total collapse.
>
> lol... you can go ahead and tell yourself that but the fact of the
> matter is that the only reason our economy has taken a hit is because of
> stupidity such as that of yours... and in fact, precisely because of our
> "socialist nature", we now stand up as a model to the world for our
> banking policies... in fact, we have weathered this economic clusterfuck
> YOU created better than every other nation on the planet... so... you go
> ahead and dream of destroying your best friend and neighbour because
> that's all it will ever be is a dream... meanwhile, the rest of your
> countrymen have learned to take their heads out of their asses and are
> realizing that we do indeed provide some good examples and some good
> ideas which will help you resolve your own problems... ;-)
You're a windy SOB, Klunt. The reason your economy isn't worse is that
we're still buying the bar soap and the loblolly pine paneling. Don't
overcomplicate things. Tend to things Canadian. Mind your own business.
klunk
"Dave Heil" <k8...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:_JlOm.56506$rE5....@newsfe08.iad...
apparently, not one you're capable of comprehending, knave...
>> you clearly haven't the foggiest wtf you're talking about beyond your
>> pitiful need to identify me as a furriner.... how fucking pathetic...
>
> Identifying you as a foreigner has never been my object. Identifying you
> as a foreigner attempting to interfere in U.S. politics is what I've done.
> You're one of a number of radical left fifth columnists doing so.
>
>> but... since you clearly don't get the message... let me attempt to get a
>> simple point into your thick skull.... I'm posting from and to,
>> "can.politics"...
>
> Then you must be mistakenly addressing your posts to alt.politics, huh?
lol... there are several groups listed... I often trim back the number to
four because that's the limit my provider allows... if you don't like it...
too bad... ;-)
>> ...and as has been made abundantly clear, the shit your country does
>> affects practically every other country on the planet...
>
> Here's my invitation for you to go get stuffed.
lol... is that your way of calling for a waaaaaahmbulance...?...
>> furthermore, you assholes have a long history of meddling with other
>> countries... in fact, we are in your fucking afghanistan nightmare
>> precisely because the asshole chimp in charge bullied our pm into it....
>
> And if once isn't enough, go get stuffed again.
lol... so... the best you can do is to whine like a child....?.... hmmmm...
apparently so... how sad...
>> ...when your country learns to respect the sovereignty of other countries
>> and stops their fucking meddling... perhaps then... and only then will
>> your pitiful whining have any merit...
>
> I've done no whining at all, much less pitiful. I'd like to extend once
> again, in the interests of your radical political views, my invitation for
> you to get stuffed.
lol... more whining like an intransigent child... how you must make your
daddy proud... ;-)
>> ...until then, if you don't like the fact that a furriner engages in an
>> open debate in an open forum on issues of relevance to your country, then
>> it's just too fucking bad...
>
> Relevance? You attempt to interfere in U.S. domestic politics. If I
> don't like it, since this is an open forum, I'll be happy to point out
> that you are an irrelevant foreign fifth columnist.
lol... by your own reckoning, I can't interfere in u.s. domestic politics...
so... which is it then, stupid...?... either I have no influence or I do and
it pisses you off... clearly, you are intimidated by ideas which do not
conform to yours or you'd be making even more of an effort to impress such
stupidity upon crap emitter who posts FAR more often than I do on the
subject of u.s. domestic politics... apparently, you've just admitted to
being a hypocrite who's too stupid to apprehend ideas which don't conform to
your preconceptions... iow... you've just admitted that you DO need my input
far more than you're willing to either accept or admit... ;-)
>> what I do find rather interesting is just how desperate you seem to be to
>> establish my furrin nature because that only tells me that you indeed do
>> find my contributions to an open dialogue to be those which intimidate
>> you...
>
> If you intimidated me, I'd likely just go away and not write anything. I'm
> writing and pointing you out.
and yet.... here you are posting the same, impotent stupidity... all the
while proving my point... thanks for being such an idiot, idiot.... because
it is entirely due to imbecilic insecurities such as what you persistently
display which confirm for me that my efforts here are worthwhile... ;-)
>> and to that, I say good because you obviously need my input... think of
>> it as an intervention by a friend who makes you feel uncomfortable but is
>> actually helping you... such friends as those who will tell you to your
>> face that you are completely fucked up are the best friends of all... and
>> you should learn to respect this or just stfu with your pitiful whining
>> because it only makes you look pathetic... ;-)
>
> You don't get to tell anyone to shut up, Klunt. In response to your
> explanation, I'll point out that by pointing out your interference in U.S.
> politics, I'm simply helping you by letting you know that your best friend
> in the U.S. has just told you how farkled up you are. Relax and learn to
> respect this.
lol... yet another hypocritical whine from an imbecile who persistently
demands I shut up but whines like a child when the sentiment is returned...
good job at proving yourself to be an entirely impotent hypocrite, stupid...
it does my heart good to know that imbecilic reichtoids have nothing more
than childish tantrums to demonstrate to the world just how ineffectual they
are... because the sooner people wake up to this reality, the sooner the
repiggie party gets spanked into behaving like adults.... and the better off
everyone is as a result.... ;-)
>>>> ...but... it would be more amusing if such stupidity didn't waste so
>>>> much time and resources impeding progress because everyone suffers as a
>>>> result... including furriners...
>>>
>>> I don't care if interfering foreigners like you have your time wasted.
>>> You don't share American resources and you play no part here so your
>>> pretense in this newsgroup wastes your own time.
>>
>> again stupid....
>
> I didn't call you "stupid", just Canadian.
stupid is as stupid does... I merely describe behaviours of yours which you
have control over... stop behaving stupidly and I will have no reason to
remind you of your stupidity, stupid... ;-)
>> I have never pretend to be an amerikkkan...
>
> I never accused you of being an "amerikkkan". I named you as a Canadian
> who interferes in U.S. domestic politics.
ahhhh... so, the term "pretend" means something other than the dictionary
definition to you, does it...?...
>> I am a canadian, and damned proud of it...
>
> That's fine. Stay there and bother Canadians then.
why...?... I am enjoying stretching the intellectual boundaries of
intellectually impotent assholes like you... after all... the more that
idiots like you can grow up, the better off we all will be... ;-)
>> ...in fact, I've turned down several opportunities to live there
>> precisely because your country is sooooo fucked up in soooooo many ways
>> precisely because of the prevalence of imbeciles like you...
>
> By all means, stay put then. Good luck in fixing all the things which
> don't work well in Canada. Keep sending us the cheap bar soap and the
> swell loblolly pine tongue-in-groove paneling.
I AM working on fixing some of the things that don't work well in canada...
and in this case, it's the ignorance of hypocritical imbeciles like you that
drag everyone else down... ;-)
>> if you actually respected the freedoms you idiotic reichtoids seem to
>> endlessly whine about while restricting them, you'd accept my choice to
>> engage in these discussions without your perpetual whining....
>
> My American freedoms are not your freedom to interfere in our politics.
> We can be really good neighbors if you mind your business and let us tend
> to ours.
lol... when you stop your meddling, then, as I said, I may stop
participating in a public dialogue... although even that is doubtful because
a public dialogue is always to everyone's benefit...
aside from that... how exactly is it that I can be "meddling in your
politics" if you, yourself have indicated I have no vote...?... clearly, you
just can't handle ideas and perspectives which are not consonant with your
myopic and self-serving preconceptions and it intimidates you that your
entrenchment is accomplishing nothing of value in your own politics...
btw... we ARE good neighbours... better than you deserve... and input such
as that from me, is input you should learn to value because it is to your
benefit... and consequently, to ours as well...
>>>> ...as your bush-generated economic collapse proved that your stupidity
>>>> actually does fuck up the world... ;-)
>>>
>>> Yep, Canadian bath soap went up in our Family Dollar stores. I'll bet
>>> your life sucks. I'll have to check on how the Canadian Loblolly pine
>>> tongue-in-groove stuff is doing at Lowe's. You may be on the verge of a
>>> total collapse.
>>
>> lol... you can go ahead and tell yourself that but the fact of the matter
>> is that the only reason our economy has taken a hit is because of
>> stupidity such as that of yours... and in fact, precisely because of our
>> "socialist nature", we now stand up as a model to the world for our
>> banking policies... in fact, we have weathered this economic clusterfuck
>> YOU created better than every other nation on the planet... so... you go
>> ahead and dream of destroying your best friend and neighbour because
>> that's all it will ever be is a dream... meanwhile, the rest of your
>> countrymen have learned to take their heads out of their asses and are
>> realizing that we do indeed provide some good examples and some good
>> ideas which will help you resolve your own problems... ;-)
>
> You're a windy SOB, Klunt. The reason your economy isn't worse is that
> we're still buying the bar soap and the loblolly pine paneling. Don't
> overcomplicate things. Tend to things Canadian. Mind your own business.
perhaps... but, you're a childish sob who appears more and more desperate by
the post with your childish spite and your stuffing your fingers in your
ears wile crying, "stop!"....
you ARE my business, you ignorant fuck... grow a pair and take the
responsibility to clean up the shit in your house because it's spilling over
into mine...
C.Tudor
accepted from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the
last five years:
-- Anyone can make their opinion known:
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b09ff75$0$28777$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
if you just want to know the answer to such a question, then download this
app into your android phone and keep an eye on it:
http://sunlightlabs.com/blog/2009/sunlights-first-android-app/
and if you really want to accomplish something productive with respect to
this issue, begin with a petition to change lobbying rules and start
rallying people around changing the currently corrupt system of lobbying
which favours big corporations at the expense of everyone else... while
you're at it... start emailing, phoning and protesting around every media
outlet until this issue begins to dominate the public consciousness and as
such, will make it very difficult for lobby groups to get any ground in
lobbying for issues which benefit them at the expense of everyone else...
otherwise, to do as this idiot suggests is tantamount to spinning your
wheels for no benefit whatsoever.... ;-)
C.Tudor
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b0b5988$0$12629$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
lol... typical one track mind of a reichtoid who's impervious to reason....
no wonder you freaks fucked up this planet and no wonder you're well on your
way to becoming the most marginalized of nincompoops whose only benefit to
society is as a source of mocking laughter... ;-)
C.Tudor
> lol... typical one track mind of a reichtoid who's impervious to
> reason.... no wonder you freaks fucked up this planet and no wonder
> you're well on your way to becoming the most marginalized of nincompoops
> whose only benefit to society is as a source of mocking laughter... ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b0ca48c$0$28747$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
yes, goddammit... do as this reich wing loon demands you do because he IS
reich, after all... ;-)
....or... if you truly want to accomplish something of value with respect to
addressing this issue, here are some suggestions which he trimmed out that
will take you FAR further:
C.Tudor
Lobbying is the petitioning of elected officials on behalf of the cause
you're promoting, an absolute right of every citizen. However, paying a
public official to receive a public act in return is bribery, not
protected free speech, and a felony for centuries.
Harold Burton
"klunk" <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
Must be why you were incapable of understanding it.
Snicker.
klunk
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-CDFB...@news.newsguy.com...
understanding your level of 8-year-old speak is easy for any adult...
however, since you have yet to prove yourself capable of anything other than
discourse at the elementary level; thanks for your tacit admission of being
incapable of better... ;-)
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b108718$0$2965$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
well... it's nice to know that such a basic understanding of the right is
not beyond your capacity to comprehend... it's too bad however, that your
comprehension of the process is demonstrated to be so limited by your
repetitive stupidity... ;-)
> However, paying a public official to receive a public act in return is
> bribery, not protected free speech, and a felony for centuries.
...which is a point related to what part of any discussion, exactly...?...
did you have to look up these last two sentences so that you could copy and
paste them here in your response in order to provide something more than an
exact repetition of your last several insipid posts...?...
if so... then at least you recognize just how such behaviour only raises the
perception on your idiocy quotient... unfortunately for you... your attempt
to pad your response only defeats your intended goal.... ;-)
C.Tudor
klunk
got nuttin' but da same damned lines yew cutin-pasted frum fox noise dat yer
gonna keep cuttin' anna pastin' 'cause yew don't keer wedder it duz anyt'ing
wort-whal udder dan jes' gittin da resto-doze udder reichtoid munkeez
dancin' da saym toooooon....
bwahahahahahaha.... wutta freakin' maroon.... here, stupid... do some
reedin'... if'n yew cain... 'cause it jes' may do yer heart proud ta know
dat sumpin' akshilly bin dun ta fix da problum yew bin carpin' on 'bout...
Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 27, 2009
Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the Obama
administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington, according to
White House officials and lobbying experts.
The new policy -- issued with little fanfare this fall by the White House
ethics counsel -- may turn out to be the most far-reaching lobbying rule
change so far from President Obama, who also has sought to restrict the
ability of lobbyists to get jobs in his administration and to negotiate over
stimulus contracts.
The initiative is aimed at a system of advisory committees so vast that
federal officials don't have exact numbers for its size; the most recent
estimates tally nearly 1,000 panels with total membership exceeding 60,000
people.
Under the policy, which is being phased in over the coming months, none of
the more than 13,000 lobbyists in Washington would be able to hold seats on
the committees, which advise agencies on trade rules, troop levels,
environmental regulations, consumer protections and thousands of other
government policies.
"Some folks have developed a comfortable Beltway perch sitting on these
boards while at the same time working as lobbyists to influence the
government," said White House ethics counsel Norm Eisen, who disclosed the
policy in a September blog posting on the White House Web site. "That is
just the kind of special interest access that the president objects to."
But lobbyists and many of the businesses they represent say K Street is
being unfairly demonized by a White House intent on scoring political points
with scandal-weary voters. They warn that the latest policy will severely
handicap federal regulators, who rely heavily on advisory boards for
technical advice and to serve as liaisons between government and industry.
"It's taken me years to learn what the General Agreement on Tariffs and
Trade is," said Robert Vastine, a lobbyist for the Coalition of Service
Industries who also serves as chairman of a trade advisory board. "It's a
whole different and specialized world. It is not easily obtained knowledge,
and they are crippling themselves terribly by ruling out all registered
lobbyists."
'Bureaucratic labyrinth'
Vastine is deeply familiar with the system because he helped create it as a
top Senate Republican staffer during the early 1970s, when Congress approved
the Federal Advisory Committee Act. The result, as Vastine puts it, is a
"bureaucratic labyrinth" that has expanded to include virtually every aspect
of the sprawling federal government, from the 179-member National Petroleum
Council, which closely advises the Department of Energy, to the influential
Defense Policy Board, which wielded enormous clout in the decision to go to
war in Iraq.
According to the most recent estimates from the General Services
Administration, 52 government agencies use 915 advisory committees organized
under the law, with a total membership of more than 60,000. Other estimates
put the figure at about 1,000 panels. Federal officials say they do not know
how many panel members are lobbyists.
Most committee members receive no pay for their participation. They often
are urged to take part by companies, trade groups or advocacy organizations
that hope to sway government decisions to their advantage. While their
operations vary, the panels tend to hold open meetings and issue reports and
recommendations, and they often wield significant influence with
policymakers because of their expertise in arcane subjects, from nuclear
plant safety to wild burro management.
Administration lawyers determined that they couldn't ban lobbyists from
advisory committees directly because most of the panels are overseen by
individual agencies rather than the White House; so Eisen encouraged --
rather than ordered -- the prohibition. Nonetheless, administration
officials said, most Cabinet secretaries have implemented the
recommendation, usually by barring renewals or new appointments for
lobbyists.
Lobbyists up in arms
The reaction from the lobbying community has been swift and overwhelmingly
negative. Some of the loudest criticism has come from the Industry Trade
Advisory Committees (ITACs), a collection of more than a dozen panels that
provide policy advice and technical assistance to the Commerce Department
and the U.S. Trade Representative. The ITACs, whose roughly 400 members
include at least 130 lobbyists, officials say, have taken the lead in
attacking the White House policy as misguided and harmful to U.S. business
interests; a letter to Obama from committee chairs last month included
executives from Boeing, IBM, Harley-Davidson and International Paper.
"This action will severely undermine the utility of the advisory committee
process," the letter read. ". . . The characteristics that make many
Advisors valuable to the Administration [are] the same characteristics that
are being used to artificially disqualify them from participation in the
Committee system."
The panel on automotive equipment and capital goods, for example, stands to
lose at least seven of its two dozen members, including lobbyists for the
National Association of Manufacturers and the auto supplier Delphi, when the
committee is reconstituted early next year. Critics note that the removals
come as domestic automakers struggle to survive and the Obama administration
attempts to jump-start trade talks with South Korea and other nations.
"At least for a year and maybe longer, I think we will completely neuter the
voice of American business in these negotiations," said panel Chairman Brian
T. Petty, senior vice president for government affairs at the International
Association of Drilling Contractors. "You are clearing out some of the most
competent people."
One lobbyist, William C. Lane, has served on that panel for 20 years while
working as the chief Washington representative for Caterpillar, the
equipment manufacturer.
"We tend to focus on issues of competitiveness and opening up markets, which
is good for everybody," Lane said of the advisory committee. "It's good for
communities; it's good for our suppliers."
'New voices'
Administration officials remain sanguine, saying the criticism is overblown
and arguing that top corporate officers are free to sit on advisory panels
as long as they aren't lobbyists. Eisen, in a response letter to the ITAC
leaders last month, wrote that "arguments that only lobbyists can bring
requisite experience to provide wise counsel . . . are unconvincing on their
face."
"If the result of this new approach is that business owners join the
conversation in D.C. about issues affecting them, that's fine," Eisen said
in an interview. "It's healthy to move away from the professional advocates
for the special interests and let some new voices be heard."
And though lobbyists are unhappy, some good-government advocates say the
policy is sound.
"You may lose a lot of expertise, but these people are also paid to have a
point of view; they have an agenda," said Mary Boyle, a vice president at
Common Cause. "We support what the administration is doing to get
deep-seated special interests out of the business of running our government,
so this seems like a step in the right direction."
C.Tudor
> lol... yer jes' a shining beacon of reichtoid imbecility, aincha...?...
> you got nuttin' but da same damned lines yew cutin-pasted frum fox noise
> dat yer gonna keep cuttin' anna pastin' 'cause yew don't keer wedder it
> duz anyt'ing wort-whal udder dan jes' gittin da resto-doze udder
> reichtoid munkeez dancin' da saym toooooon....
>
> bwahahahahahaha.... wutta freakin' maroon.... here, stupid... do some
> reedin'... if'n yew cain... 'cause it jes' may do yer heart proud ta
> know dat sumpin' akshilly bin dun ta fix da problum yew bin carpin' on
> 'bout...
>
>
> Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
> White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
>
>
> By Dan Eggen
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Friday, November 27, 2009
>
> Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
> federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the
> Obama administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington,
> according to White House officials and lobbying experts.
"Lobbyists" that fall behind on their payments are going to get "ejected."
Also, I really doubt that Fox News is doing anything to expose the
corrupt relationship of the Insurance Industry, Pharmaceuticals and
Medical "lobbyists" with elected officials. Republicans are taking as
much money from them as Democrats.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b1172f1$0$16023$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>> lol... yer jes' a shining beacon of reichtoid imbecility, aincha...?...
>> you got nuttin' but da same damned lines yew cutin-pasted frum fox noise
>> dat yer gonna keep cuttin' anna pastin' 'cause yew don't keer wedder it
>> duz anyt'ing wort-whal udder dan jes' gittin da resto-doze udder
>> reichtoid munkeez dancin' da saym toooooon....
>>
>> bwahahahahahaha.... wutta freakin' maroon.... here, stupid... do some
>> reedin'... if'n yew cain... 'cause it jes' may do yer heart proud ta know
>> dat sumpin' akshilly bin dun ta fix da problum yew bin carpin' on
>> 'bout...
>>
>>
>> Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
>> White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
>> By Dan Eggen
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Friday, November 27, 2009
>>
>> Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
>> federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the
>> Obama administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington,
>> according to White House officials and lobbying experts.
>
>
> "Lobbyists" that fall behind on their payments are going to get "ejected."
from where in your anus did you pull out this gem...?...
> Also, I really doubt that Fox News is doing anything to expose the corrupt
> relationship of the Insurance Industry, Pharmaceuticals and Medical
> "lobbyists" with elected officials. Republicans are taking as much money
> from them as Democrats.
which is why the rules have desperately needed changing... which is why
obama's just done something significant to begin to fix some huge problems
in this area that many people just won't understand the implications of...
and that is just not "newsworthy enough" for many media outlets to cover
because the implications of such a change just takes too much effort to
explain...
which, btw... goes a long way toward addressing your desire to bitch about
the influence of big pharm and insurance.... if you actually understood
this, you would realize that your need to repost your same statements has
just become redundant for two reasons.... but... I'm quite certain you
really don't care because it's clear your only purpose in doing what you're
doing is just to whine without caring about results...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
...so.... go ahead and continue to tell people to waste their time with such
a fruitless endeavour because change isn't something you really are all that
interested in... all you clearly care about is demonstrating just how much
you wish to emulate a child's tantrum.... ;-)
C.Tudor
A genuine health care reform would reduce the cost of insurance premiums
to individuals and reduce the collective cost of health care to the
nation's taxpayers. ObamaCare does neither of these; in fact it will
increase both. It's nothing more than a gift to the Insurance Industry.
The only people supporting it are people blindly following the
ObamaConArtist.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b11cc8d$0$16246$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
for "genuine health care reform" to accomplish such a goal, then the only
real option is a public option and a single-payer system...
> ObamaCare does neither of these; in fact it will increase both.
this statement is nothing more than mindless propaganda from reichwing
idiots who clearly care not in the slightest for true reform because they
are more interested in preserving the bloated profits of industries who pay
for their elections...
> It's nothing more than a gift to the Insurance Industry.
both bills have been watered down precisely because of the lobbying efforts
of big corp and the obstinacy of their reichtoid schills who clearly
couldn't give a flying fuck about the state of the union...
> The only people supporting it are people blindly following the
> ObamaConArtist.
the only people who aren't supporting the health care reform initiative are
blind dupes who aren't making the effort to comprehend what is actually
going on... and who have never made any effort to study the issues nor the
bills themselves and are simply parroting the bullhsit stupidity fed to them
by their various propaganda outlets with faux news leading the charge...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
yes... go ahead and waste your time on trivial idiocies if it makes you feel
good to have an emotionally driven tantrum which accomplishes practically
nothing... however, if you actually want to see your efforts accomplish
something of value, then go ahead and refer to the suggestions I've offered
for establishing a strategy which will require thought and effort to
actually work... that he keeps trimming and that I've replaced again below:
if you just want to know the answer to such a question, then download this
app into your android phone and keep an eye on it:
http://sunlightlabs.com/blog/2009/sunlights-first-android-app/
and if you really want to accomplish something productive with respect to
this issue, begin with a petition to change lobbying rules and start
rallying people around changing the currently corrupt system of lobbying
which favours big corporations at the expense of everyone else... while
you're at it... start emailing, phoning and protesting around every media
outlet until this issue begins to dominate the public consciousness and as
such, will make it very difficult for lobby groups to get any ground in
lobbying for issues which benefit them at the expense of everyone else...
otherwise, to do as this idiot suggests is tantamount to spinning your
C.Tudor
> for "genuine health care reform" to accomplish such a goal, then the
> only real option is a public option and a single-payer system...
The single-payer system that Canada uses is unlike most of the nations
of the world. Most have arrived at a modern and humane health care
system by way of other structures. In fact, a public option and/or a
single-payer is no guarantee that prices would come down, and may
actually make them go up. The current non-partisan analysis of the
Senate public option is that it will increase both premiums and taxpayer
expense (and this is the version supported by The ObamaConArtist). The
only way to bring down prices is to create legislation that includes
verbiage to produce that exact change. This is what has been done in
all other nations. The particular structure of "options" is not as
important as the need for specific verbiage that reduces prices while
extending coverage to everyone. This is what has been done in all other
nations around the world, and this is precisely what is being avoided
both in the bills that have come out of committee and also being avoided
in the general debate on this issue. All we're getting is The TapDance
from The ChicagoHustler. No real reform. The bill that's going to be
produced is nothing more than a gift to the Insurance Industry.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b11d9d3$0$12618$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>> for "genuine health care reform" to accomplish such a goal, then the only
>> real option is a public option and a single-payer system...
>
>
> The single-payer system that Canada uses is unlike most of the nations of
> the world. Most have arrived at a modern and humane health care system by
> way of other structures.
lol... "unlike" how...?... in what way is it "unlike most of the nations in
the world"...?... because it's universal...?... lol... so's australia's...
although canada's is different from the uk because canadian medical
professionals are not employed by the government... canadians can also
purchase supplemental private insurance... is this what you are referring to
as different...?... because if that's the case, then it is far more in line
with the u.s. philosophy of profiting from health care... how about taiwan's
health care system which is modelled after the u.s. medicaid system...?...
just wtf ARE you talking about...?... methinks you're just pulling more crap
out of your anus and expecting people to swallow it verbatim....
> In fact, a public option and/or a single-payer is no guarantee that
> prices would come down, and may actually make them go up.
in fact, a public option and single-payer system stimulates competition...
and this is the only way to ensure prices are as low as possible...
> The current non-partisan analysis of the Senate public option is that it
> will increase both premiums and taxpayer expense (and this is the version
> supported by The ObamaConArtist).
lol... yet another gem you've pulled out of your anus without any cite to
substantiate it...
> The only way to bring down prices is to create legislation that includes
> verbiage to produce that exact change.
in fact, you can't create legislation which guarantees low prices... all you
can do is create legislation which protects against gouging...
> This is what has been done in all other nations. The particular
> structure of "options" is not as important as the need for specific
> verbiage that reduces prices while extending coverage to everyone.
the only way to reduce prices is to provide a fair market system which
stimulates competition...
> This is what has been done in all other nations around the world, and this
> is precisely what is being avoided both in the bills that have come out of
> committee and also being avoided in the general debate on this issue. All
> we're getting is The TapDance from The ChicagoHustler. No real reform.
> The bill that's going to be produced is nothing more than a gift to the
> Insurance Industry.
actually... all we're getting from your posts is nothing more than mindless
bullshit you've picked up from nowhere other than your anus... your
criticisms have absolutely no relationship to any reality which can be
corroborated by anything other than some idiotic disdain for the cic... and
since that seems to be the crux of your argument, you've clearly
demonstrated nothing more than a mindless adherence to your idiotology...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
yes... go ahead and waste your time on trivial idiocies if it makes you feel
C.Tudor
>
> lol... "unlike" how...?... in what way is it "unlike most of the nations
> in the world"...?... because it's universal...?... lol... so's
> australia's... although canada's is different from the uk because
> canadian medical professionals are not employed by the government...
> canadians can also purchase supplemental private insurance... is this
> what you are referring to as different...?... because if that's the
> case, then it is far more in line with the u.s. philosophy of profiting
> from health care... how about taiwan's health care system which is
> modelled after the u.s. medicaid system...?... just wtf ARE you talking
> about...?... methinks you're just pulling more crap out of your anus and
> expecting people to swallow it verbatim....
The Canadian "Medicare" health insurance system is unlike most nations.
Australia uses a system that combines coverage from the Insurance
Industry with a government plan, unlike Canada. The UK uses a system
that where a government-owned health care system is available to
everyone, but private insurance and self-insurance are still used by
about 10-15% of the population, unlike Canada. Switzerland uses a
system consisting entirely of coverage from the private Insurance
Industry, though the description and price of basic coverage are
determined by law, also unlike Canada. And these three structural
patterns are copied by other nations, many structured like the UK system
and some structured like the Australian or the Swiss system. The
Canadian system of government insurance covering everyone and private
insurance excluded from basic coverage is unlike the structure found in
most nations. And, the structure is more or less irrelevant. What is
important is legislation that dictates the description of the coverage
and also dictates the PRICE. "Public Option" has become a mindless
chant, but having a "public option" will not guarantee cheaper coverage
unless cheaper coverage is written into the law. Non-partisan
evaluation of the current version of public option being promoted by the
ObamaTapDancer claims that it will increase premium prices as well as
cost to taxpayers. What's needed for reform is legislation with
specific verbiage that dictates the price of premiums, co-payments, and
deductibles, as well as dictating the price of medical and hospital
fees. No *structure* will automatically reduce prices. The "public
option" is just part of The ObamaConArtist's TapDance. The health care
"re-form" law that we're going to get is nothing more than a gift to the
Insurance Industry of hundreds of billions (US 'billions') of dollars
annually, payoff for the bribes that elected officials have been taking.
Harold Burton
"klunk" <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
Again, must be why you are incapable of understanding it.
Snicier.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b12d1a7$0$28762$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
iow... the canadian system is unlike others in that all others are unlike
each other... but they all share some general approaches.... "public option"
is essentially a philosophical and practical approach toward health care
that consolidates fee structures under one umbrella... which, by doing so,
achieves savings on the basis of economies of scale... the market exchange
system will also stimulate competition while creating a downward pressure on
prices...
there's no doubt that big corp has done what it can to water down efforts at
reform in order to preserve their as much of their profits as possible but
the fact of the matter is that reducing the amount of influence such lobby
groups have on government is going to take generations... it won't happen
with one overnight sweep of a pen within one measure of reform... if you
think generations of growth in power and influence can be changed within one
(not-so) simple implementation of a health care system the u.s. has been
struggling to implement for decades, then you are simply blowing smoke out
of your ass...
as far as the "payoffs for elected officials" are concerned, that is simply
another issue altogether which I've already addressed in a post on lobbying
changes that obama's instituted which has pissed off industry because
they've lost some ability to manipulate the system to their benefit... and
if you were actually interested in something other than simply whining about
"the other team being in charge", then you would have not only acknowledged
this change, you would also be bitching about how badly the republicans have
fucked things up by cozying up to big corp in the first place...
you clearly aren't interested in supporting your own beefs in the first
place because even if you don't like the reform because it doesn't meet your
ideal, it is still better than no reform at all... which is exactly what the
republicans have to offer... nothing but more of the same garbage you're now
whining about...
here... in case you actually do give a shit about what's going on... a side
by side comparison of both bills... and do check out the section on cost
containment:
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_sbs_full.pdf
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
yes... go ahead and waste your time on trivial idiocies if it makes you feel
klunk
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-0516...@news.newsguy.com...
well hairy... an adult who behaves like an 8-year-old as if such constitutes
cleverness is actually beyond any other adult's understanding... clearly,
the only explanation is that you're seriously fucked up... so... once again,
thanks for admitting you're not capable of better.... ;-)
C.Tudor
A health care reform would have to do two things: (1) reduce the price
of premiums to individuals and (2) reduce the overall cost to taxpayers.
Nothing under discussion will do this. None of what you've presented
refutes my point, including the PDF file comparing the three prevailing
committee reports. The bill now being produced is written in favor of
the Insurance Industry. It will expand the role of the Insurance
Industry in health care. It fails to set premium prices and medical
fees and will allow unlimited increase in those costs. The section of
cost containment is just part of The ObamaTapDance. The "marketplace"
idea has been put forth by legislators who are taking the most money
from the Insurance Industry and the Insurance Industry strongly supports
this method of "cost containment," because it's nothing of the sort.
The planned structure for expansion to the uninsured lower middle class
is to legally force them to purchase insurance policies to obtain health
coverage, policies with annual premiums of 10-15% of pre-tax income for
individuals making $25-50,000 annually, plus co-payments and
deductibles. The current deductible being endorsed in the Senate debate
is $2,500, all the way down to individuals making $25,000. That means,
a person making $25,000 annually will be forced to make an annual
payment to the Insurance Industry of about $2,500 and then when health
care is needed, that person will pay another 10% of their income before
the policy kicks in. And again, all other nations, regardless of which
of the four structures they adopted, have succeeded in making health
care truly *affordable*, the Swiss being the most expensive, but the
Swiss paying around ONE-THIRD of what's being planned for the US. All
of this is being danced around by elected officials and the press as
well. There's a big, big surprise coming down the pike: Tens of
millions of Americans are soon going to discover that the "individual
mandate" means that they're going to be forced to pay something like a
house note to the Insurance Industry, or face stiff fines. Prepare
yourself for it: there's an enormous revolt coming. Care to guess
which party is going to be held responsible?
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b156a7e$0$15931$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
actually... it appears you're just projecting your own tap dance because
nothing of what you've posted so far has demonstrated anything beyond
mindless whining.... you've demonstrated yourself to be completely inured to
any sort of reason... you've swept your hand in denial of the specifics of
any argument while continuing to repeat your own mindless mantra...
> The "marketplace" idea has been put forth by legislators who are taking
> the most money from the Insurance Industry and the Insurance Industry
> strongly supports this method of "cost containment," because it's nothing
> of the sort. The planned structure for expansion to the uninsured lower
> middle class is to legally force them to purchase insurance policies to
> obtain health coverage, policies with annual premiums of 10-15% of pre-tax
> income for individuals making $25-50,000 annually, plus co-payments and
> deductibles. The current deductible being endorsed in the Senate debate
> is $2,500, all the way down to individuals making $25,000. That means, a
> person making $25,000 annually will be forced to make an annual payment to
> the Insurance Industry of about $2,500 and then when health care is
> needed, that person will pay another 10% of their income before the policy
> kicks in.
US Health Care Reform: Who Are The Potential Winners?
By Charles Rotblut on August 22, 2009
http://www.dailymarkets.com/stocks/2009/08/21/us-health-care-reform-who-are-the-potential-winners/
The ongoing debate about health care has become more focused on ideological
lines than on what realistically can and should be done. Though not
surprising, it is unfortunate.
It would be wonderful if the conversation shifted to what changes can
realistically be made and what changes should be made to prevent a worsening
crisis. Here are some ideas, along with potential investment plays.
Big Pharma Is Not Going Away
Regardless of what you think about the drug companies, they are not going
anywhere. The pharmaceutical lobby has made certain that it has a seat at
the table and it seems probable that any new laws will benefit them. Even
though some concessions will be made, the Obama Administration has quietly
signaled a willingness not to pursue the most beneficial cost-saving
strategies.
Furthermore, the White House is playing ball when it comes to patent
expiration, a huge victory for drug and biotech companies. Incidentally,
this is partially why I have Healthcare SPDR (XLV: 31.22 +0.54 +1.76%) in
Zacks ETF Trader.
Potential winners not only include large drug companies like Bristol-Myers
Squibb (BMY: 24.65 -0.66 -2.61%), but also biotechs such as Amgen (AMGN:
57.08 +0.73 +1.30%) and Genzyme (GENZ: 51.11 +0.41 +0.81%).
Insurance Companies Will Survive
Despite talk about a public option, the insurance companies are not going
quietly into the night. Not only do these companies have a large number of
lobbyists, they are also major employers. This makes dismantling the current
system very unrealistic and extremely expensive.
Even if the insurers are forced to make big concessions, they could
potentially gain millions in new members. Plus, any reduction in medical
costs should ultimately help their bottom lines.
Potential winners include Aetna (AET: 29.82 +0.71 +2.44%) and United Health
(UNH: 28.70 +0.03 +0.10%).
Medical Records and Billing Need to Be Changed
The Obama Administration wants to digitalize electronic medical records.
Though having a high initial cost, the benefits are enormous.
Any reform should also directly address medical billing practices. The
current system is a network of severely bloated bureaucracies. As a result,
doctors have to employ additional staff just to contend with the insurance
companies.
Similarly, patients have no idea of assessing what procedures will actually
cost them. Not to mention that billing errors are common, partially because
of the large number of codes and partially because an insurance's decision
as to whether or not cover a procedure is dependant on how well the
attending physician explains the reason for the treatment.
Potential winners include Microsoft (MSFT: 30.01 +0.60 +2.04%) and Google
(GOOG: 589.87 +6.87 +1.18%). It also seems logical that other tech
conglomerates, such as Hewlett-Packard (HPQ: 49.59 +0.53 +1.08%) and IBM
(IBM: 127.94 +1.59 +1.26%) would be quick to jump into this very large
market.
Costs Need to Be Contained
The current health care system is not sustainable. If nothing is done,
spending on health care will quickly jump to 25% of GDP. Tort reform is not
the answer either, since according to the nonpartisan CBO, malpractice costs
account for a very small percentage of overall spending.
A free market system of high deductibles and price conscious consumers is
not a viable solution either. As stated above, costs are not transparent.
Consumers lack adequate information to quantitatively assess the quality of
care.
Finally, there is the problem that many Americans with health care currently
are not seeking adequate treatment. We see this in the large number of
people with treatable but undiagnosed medical conditions such as diabetes
and thyroid disease. If consumers put off regular examinations and
treatments in an effort to preserve their health savings account, the
potential costs could skyrocket even more in the future.
Any reform needs to reduce the spending on health care as a proportion of
GDP. According to the CBO, the legislation considered by congressional
Democrats prior to the summer break failed to provide adequate savings, a
big problem. If we fail to cut costs, the federal deficit will be balloon
and interest rates will soar.
So what is the solution? One idea is a hybrid system that breaks the
relationship of getting insurance through one's employer. The Healthy
Americans Act does just that. It is a bipartisan bill that has certified by
the CBO as paying for itself, and it provides universal coverage. I'm not
saying it's the best piece of legislation, but it is a good place to reframe
the debate about what should be done.
> And again, all other nations, regardless of which of the four structures
> they adopted, have succeeded in making health care truly *affordable*, the
> Swiss being the most expensive, but the Swiss paying around ONE-THIRD of
> what's being planned for the US. All of this is being danced around by
> elected officials and the press as well. There's a big, big surprise
> coming down the pike: Tens of millions of Americans are soon going to
> discover that the "individual mandate" means that they're going to be
> forced to pay something like a house note to the Insurance Industry, or
> face stiff fines. Prepare yourself for it: there's an enormous revolt
> coming. Care to guess which party is going to be held responsible?
it's clear you're going to blame the current administration for the results
because you're already fabricating whining bullshit about it in other posts
of yours... it's rather clear you're not at all interested in actual
solutions than you are in simply bitching about the fact that the party
you're not whining about is actually responsible for creating this mess in
the first place...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
yes... go ahead and waste your time on trivial idiocies if it makes you feel
C.Tudor
--
Bribery is *already* a felony.
--
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b16166c$0$12625$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
ahhhhh..... so... that's your tap-dancing way of admitting you're only
whining because it's your obligation as a reichtoid to bitch and moan
without any care for what you're whining about....
> --
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
klunk
got nuttin' but da same damned lines yew cutin-pasted frum fox noise dat yer
gonna keep cuttin' anna pastin' 'cause yew don't keer wedder it duz anyt'ing
wort-whal udder dan jes' gittin da resto-doze udder reichtoid munkeez
dancin' da saym toooooon....
bwahahahahahaha.... wutta freakin' maroon.... here, stupid... do some
reedin'... if'n yew cain... 'cause it jes' may do yer heart proud ta know
dat sumpin' akshilly bin dun ta fix da problum yew bin carpin' on 'bout...
Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 27, 2009
Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the Obama
administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington, according to
White House officials and lobbying experts.
The new policy -- issued with little fanfare this fall by the White House
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b1172f1$0$16023$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>> lol... yer jes' a shining beacon of reichtoid imbecility, aincha...?...
>> you got nuttin' but da same damned lines yew cutin-pasted frum fox noise
>> dat yer gonna keep cuttin' anna pastin' 'cause yew don't keer wedder it
>> duz anyt'ing wort-whal udder dan jes' gittin da resto-doze udder
>> reichtoid munkeez dancin' da saym toooooon....
>>
>> bwahahahahahaha.... wutta freakin' maroon.... here, stupid... do some
>> reedin'... if'n yew cain... 'cause it jes' may do yer heart proud ta know
>> dat sumpin' akshilly bin dun ta fix da problum yew bin carpin' on
>> 'bout...
>>
>>
>> Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
>> White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
>> By Dan Eggen
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Friday, November 27, 2009
>>
>> Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
>> federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the
>> Obama administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington,
>> according to White House officials and lobbying experts.
>
>
> "Lobbyists" that fall behind on their payments are going to get "ejected."
from where in your anus did you pull out this gem...?...
> Also, I really doubt that Fox News is doing anything to expose the corrupt
> relationship of the Insurance Industry, Pharmaceuticals and Medical
> "lobbyists" with elected officials. Republicans are taking as much money
> from them as Democrats.
which is why the rules have desperately needed changing... which is why
obama's just done something significant to begin to fix some huge problems
in this area that many people just won't understand the implications of...
and that is just not "newsworthy enough" for many media outlets to cover
because the implications of such a change just takes too much effort to
explain...
which, btw... goes a long way toward addressing your desire to bitch about
the influence of big pharm and insurance.... if you actually understood
this, you would realize that your need to repost your same statements has
just become redundant for two reasons.... but... I'm quite certain you
really don't care because it's clear your only purpose in doing what you're
doing is just to whine without caring about results...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
...so.... go ahead and continue to tell people to waste their time with such
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b1172f1$0$16023$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>> lol... yer jes' a shining beacon of reichtoid imbecility, aincha...?...
>> you got nuttin' but da same damned lines yew cutin-pasted frum fox noise
>> dat yer gonna keep cuttin' anna pastin' 'cause yew don't keer wedder it
>> duz anyt'ing wort-whal udder dan jes' gittin da resto-doze udder
>> reichtoid munkeez dancin' da saym toooooon....
>>
>> bwahahahahahaha.... wutta freakin' maroon.... here, stupid... do some
>> reedin'... if'n yew cain... 'cause it jes' may do yer heart proud ta know
>> dat sumpin' akshilly bin dun ta fix da problum yew bin carpin' on
>> 'bout...
>>
>>
>> Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
>> White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
>> By Dan Eggen
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Friday, November 27, 2009
>>
>> Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
>> federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the
>> Obama administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington,
>> according to White House officials and lobbying experts.
>
>
> "Lobbyists" that fall behind on their payments are going to get "ejected."
from where in your anus did you pull out this gem...?...
> Also, I really doubt that Fox News is doing anything to expose the corrupt
> relationship of the Insurance Industry, Pharmaceuticals and Medical
> "lobbyists" with elected officials. Republicans are taking as much money
> from them as Democrats.
which is why the rules have desperately needed changing... which is why
obama's just done something significant to begin to fix some huge problems
in this area that many people just won't understand the implications of...
and that is just not "newsworthy enough" for many media outlets to cover
because the implications of such a change just takes too much effort to
explain...
which, btw... goes a long way toward addressing your desire to bitch about
the influence of big pharm and insurance.... if you actually understood
this, you would realize that your need to repost your same statements has
just become redundant for two reasons.... but... I'm quite certain you
really don't care because it's clear your only purpose in doing what you're
doing is just to whine without caring about results...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
...so.... go ahead and continue to tell people to waste their time with such
C.Tudor
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b174191$0$28753$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
lol... yes... do as this idiot demands because he, like all imbecilic
reichtoids, are impervious to reason because questions interfere with their
demands for blind obedience from others... and when people don't jump on
command to their stupidity, they resort to the typical antics of a child who
cares not in the least for such things as implications or consequences or
even strategy or accomplishing meaningful goals... all they care about, such
as this idiot has demonstrated, is to bitch and whine about the leadership
when it's not their team in charge... and when it is their team in charge,
as we've already witnessed; their standard, bullying behaviours are merely
compounded by unearned arrogance as they ignore atrocities committed by
their leaders while accusing dissenters of treason...
oh... and thanks once again for proving you really don't give a shit about
the question you've been pretending to care about... ;-)
for those who actually do care, there is some good news that this asshole
has long since trimmed away... the lobbying rules have been changed... and
although I am not suggesting they've changed enough to eliminate the
negative influences of too-powerful lobbying, this is a step in the right
direction (oh... and do note, that this is a step that has been rejected by
reichtoids... in fact, if this asshole were actually interested in the
complaint he's obstinately been pushing, he would be jumping for joy at this
bit of news... but... he hasn't.... hmmmmm.... if it weren't so obvious why,
one might wonder):
Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/26/AR2009112602362.html
By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 27, 2009
Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from
federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the Obama
administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington, according to
White House officials and lobbying experts.
The new policy -- issued with little fanfare this fall by the White House
C.Tudor
> lol... yes... do as this idiot demands because he, like all imbecilic
> reichtoids, are impervious to reason because questions interfere with
> their demands for blind obedience from others... and when people don't
> jump on command to their stupidity, they resort to the typical antics of
> a child who cares not in the least for such things as implications or
> consequences or even strategy or accomplishing meaningful goals... all
> they care about, such as this idiot has demonstrated, is to bitch and
> whine about the leadership when it's not their team in charge... and
> when it is their team in charge, as we've already witnessed; their
> standard, bullying behaviours are merely compounded by unearned
> arrogance as they ignore atrocities committed by their leaders while
> accusing dissenters of treason...
>
> oh... and thanks once again for proving you really don't give a shit
> about the question you've been pretending to care about... ;-)
>
> for those who actually do care, there is some good news that this
> asshole has long since trimmed away... the lobbying rules have been
> changed... and although I am not suggesting they've changed enough to
> eliminate the negative influences of too-powerful lobbying, this is a
> step in the right direction (oh... and do note, that this is a step that
> has been rejected by reichtoids... in fact, if this asshole were
> actually interested in the complaint he's obstinately been pushing, he
> would be jumping for joy at this bit of news... but... he hasn't....
> hmmmmm.... if it weren't so obvious why, one might wonder):
Lobbying "re-form" isn't what's needed. What's needed is an actual
criminal investigation of the flow of money to public officials,
including a careful examination of the relationship of the money and the
legislative votes. Paying a legislator to cast a particular vote is not
a form of lobbying. Most important is the need for the rank and file to
understand that the health care "re-form" is no reform at all and is
simply a payoff to the moneyed interests, principally the Insurance
Industry.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b180a3f$0$12628$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
what good does a criminal investigation do if the lobbying which has had
such a dramatically negative and one-sided impact on the issue you've been
bitching about is legal to begin with...?... oh... that's right... you don't
really care about the issue... you just want to have your tantrum and beat
yourself off at the same time....
what actually IS important is that people realize that whatever reform it is
that comes about, it is only a first step in a long line of necessary steps
to fixing the clusterfuck of a system which allows big corp to rape profits
from the backs of ordinary citizens while destroying not only lives but the
economy at the same time...
what actually IS important is that people realize jackasses like you really
don't give a flying fuck about fixing problems because all you truly care
about is that the party which has been most responsible for fucking up
everything for everyone and creating the problems you're bitching about to
return to power to continue fucking everything up for everyone....
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
Harold Burton
"klunk" <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
> what good does a criminal investigation do if the lobbying which has had
> such a dramatically negative and one-sided impact on the issue you've been
> bitching about is legal to begin with...?
It's called free speech, something leftards like you have a problem with.
Snicker.
klunk
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-533B...@news.newsguy.com...
lol... what does free speech have to do with this issue...?... oh... that's
reich... reichtoid imbeciles love to hurl out terms they neither understand
nor respect as a cover for their stupidity because they're just not capable
of comprehending issues beyond the elementary level.... ;-)
C.Tudor
> what good does a criminal investigation do if the lobbying which has had
> such a dramatically negative and one-sided impact on the issue you've
> been bitching about is legal to begin with...?... oh... that's right...
> you don't really care about the issue... you just want to have your
> tantrum and beat yourself off at the same time....
Lobbying is legal, it's mentioned in the Constitution, and I haven't
complained about it. Paying money specifically for the passage of a
bill is bribery and has been a felony for centuries.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b1880dc$0$15791$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>> what good does a criminal investigation do if the lobbying which has had
>> such a dramatically negative and one-sided impact on the issue you've
>> been bitching about is legal to begin with...?... oh... that's right...
>> you don't really care about the issue... you just want to have your
>> tantrum and beat yourself off at the same time....
>
>
> Lobbying is legal, it's mentioned in the Constitution, and I haven't
> complained about it. Paying money specifically for the passage of a bill
> is bribery and has been a felony for centuries.
iow... you're bitching and moaning for no reason whatsoever because if a law
were actually being broken, then indictments would be handed out... and your
imbecilic advice to people to email their elected officials to ask them a
question they could easily find out the truth on their own without
double-speak is nothing more than a wasted exercise... thanks for admitting
you have no real purpose to your tantrum.... oh... and thanks once again,
for admitting you really don't give a shit about the issues you are having a
tantrum over.... ;-)
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
C.Tudor
> iow... you're bitching and moaning for no reason whatsoever because if a
> law were actually being broken, then indictments would be handed out...
> and your imbecilic advice to people to email their elected officials to
> ask them a question they could easily find out the truth on their own
> without double-speak is nothing more than a wasted exercise... thanks
> for admitting you have no real purpose to your tantrum.... oh... and
> thanks once again, for admitting you really don't give a shit about the
> issues you are having a tantrum over.... ;-)
There are several investigations of Members of Congress underway, just
not enough, and nothing touching the White House yet. So, send the email.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b197d77$0$14824$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>> iow... you're bitching and moaning for no reason whatsoever because if a
>> law were actually being broken, then indictments would be handed out...
>> and your imbecilic advice to people to email their elected officials to
>> ask them a question they could easily find out the truth on their own
>> without double-speak is nothing more than a wasted exercise... thanks for
>> admitting you have no real purpose to your tantrum.... oh... and thanks
>> once again, for admitting you really don't give a shit about the issues
>> you are having a tantrum over.... ;-)
>
>
> There are several investigations of Members of Congress underway, just not
> enough, and nothing touching the White House yet. So, send the email.
so.... how does your email strategy produce more indictments...?... and how
do you know that there should be more...?...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
answers: it doesn't... and you don't know because you're just conducting
your own form of tantrum-like tap-dancing...
if you really want to have an impact on the issue of big corp influencing
government, then begin a strategic effort at creating a powerful lobby for
the sole purpose of further changing the rules of lobbying within
government... I know... ironic, ain't it... ;-)
C.Tudor
> if you really want to have an impact on the issue of big corp
> influencing government, then begin a strategic effort at creating a
> powerful lobby for the sole purpose of further changing the rules of
> lobbying within government... I know... ironic, ain't it... ;-)
The problem isn't *lobbying*; it's bribery. Send the email.
klunk
"C.Tudor" <charle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b19cebf$0$26659$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
> klunk wrote:
>
>> if you really want to have an impact on the issue of big corp influencing
>> government, then begin a strategic effort at creating a powerful lobby
>> for the sole purpose of further changing the rules of lobbying within
>> government... I know... ironic, ain't it... ;-)
>
>
>
> The problem isn't *lobbying*; it's bribery. Send the email.
bribery is a crime, stupid... if a crime has been committed, then provide
your evidence to the police instead of tipping off the criminals to your
idiotic intent....
btw... you do know that vigilante justice always has a way of backfiring
don't you...?... naaaaah... because you really don't give a flying fuck
about the truth of any issue... you just keep moving the goalposts so that
you can pretend-rationalize your pretend-patriotism while disguising your
true need to enlist other idiots in joining on your cause wail your childish
tantrum for no practical purpose whatsoever...
> Email your elected officials and ask them how much money they've accepted
> from the Pharmaceutical and Insurance Industries during the last five
> years:
> -- Anyone can make their opinion known:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
> http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
> http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
if you just want to know the answer to such a question, then download this
app into your android phone and keep an eye on it:
http://sunlightlabs.com/blog/2009/sunlights-first-android-app/
if you really want to have an impact on the issue of big corp influencing
Pete
> if you really want to have an impact on the issue of big corp influencing
> government, then begin a strategic effort at creating a powerful lobby for
> the sole purpose of further changing the rules of lobbying within
> government... I know... ironic, ain't it... ;-)
>
>
>
I'm like you. Looking in and seeing what the US will do.
Like you, I live in Canada and have no issue with our system, at least compared
to what is in the USA and their issues.
It's nice being on the outside, looking in.
The only time I get my back up, is when I hear lies about our system.
And, the changes in the USA should have nothing to do with the faults or
advantages of ours anyway.
It's their deal. We want to keep ours and improve it.
Many of them speak out and want the status quo.
They just shouldn't shit on Canada. What we do has nothing to do with them.
And the tall tales some of them tell?
"Millions of Canadians dying in the streets"
"Millions of Canadians going to the USA"
Good grief! What a load of shit.
Is propaganda that big down there? Do they really suck up crap that much?
Oh! I've got to go. I've got a flight to Winnipeg. We're having the Seal
Hunt.
*us*
>if you really want to have an impact on the issue of big corp influencing
>government, then begin a strategic effort at creating a powerful lobby for
>the sole purpose of further changing the rules of lobbying within
>government... I know... ironic, ain't it... ;-)
That won't do you any good until you abolish
electronic 'voting'.
chingang
You failed to mention boycotts of coporate products. Works wonderfully
when you have alot of people organized. See how fast they listen when
their sales are down.
Petition your MP to listen to his constituents or he'll be out of
office. Get lots of signatures in their ridings, picket their
constituency offices. You can do alot more but it takes action not
newsgroup pissin' and moanin', but then again, thats what people do
here and rarely contribute physically.
Harold Burton
"klunk" <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
> > Snicker.
>
> well hairy... an adult who behaves like an 8-year-old...
You should know.
Snicker.
klunk
"Harold Burton" <hal.i....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-C296...@news.newsguy.com...
because you persistently remind me of it... ;-)
Harold Burton
"klunk" <kl...@theothershoo.org> wrote:
> because you persistently remind me...
...that you're one.
Snicker.