What is "band rate"? (dry dsl)
Some Guy
/ month according to my current phone number.
How exactly do I go about cancelling the phone service on my line, and
keep the DSL service on it during a transition to another ISP?
Does the Band Rate charge cover the DSL cost of the line to Bell, or am
I looking at paying Bell something to keep DSL on the line?
Tony
they'll try to fuck you for 30 days notice and make up some bullshit about
a cancellation charge. Tell them you have no fucking contract and aren't
paying one red fucking cent. You basically pay that $9.10 a month because
bell owns the lines the taxpayers paid for. It actually exists in America
where you have to pay so there isn't anything you can do. The closer you
live to the central office the lesser you pay each month for dry dsl.
That's why there's 4 different rates. Chuckcar would pay the *d* rate for
dry dsl. The highest rate because he's so far from the nearest central
office. Whatever you do cancel your phone first then a few months later
your dsl. Everything will get fucked up for sure if you cancel your phone
and dsl together.
Some Guy wrote:
--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG
Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city
Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
manners
Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,
Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!
El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar
Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
beyond the realm of understandability
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
Geoffrey Welsh
> Does the Band Rate charge cover the DSL cost of the line to Bell, or
> am I looking at paying Bell something to keep DSL on the line?
Not exactly... when Bell offers a third party DSL access on a phone line,
they charge for the DSL service but assume that the basic costs of the phone
line (e.g., power, maintenance) are already covered by the money they make
from voice services. When an ISP orders "dry" DSL, Bell throws an extra
charge at them to make up for that lost revenue.
--
Geoffrey Welsh <Geoffrey [dot] Welsh [at] bigfoot [dot] com>
Some Guy
> When an ISP orders "dry" DSL, Bell throws an extra
> charge at them to make up for that lost revenue.
So if I'm looking at Teksavvy premium dry loop ($29.95) plus Band rate
($9.10 in my case) am I going to also see a monthly charge from bell?
If so - what is it?
And why is the band rate related to distance from CO? What does
distance have to do with the cost structure for the copper provider? In
fact, with speed falling as distance goes up, you're paying more in band
charges for potentially a slower connection. No?
Tony
the line is. Chuckcar would pay the most because he's so far away from that
central office in Ottawa.
Some Guy wrote:
--
Madonna
> Geoffrey Welsh wrote:
>
>> When an ISP orders "dry" DSL, Bell throws an extra
>> charge at them to make up for that lost revenue.
>
> So if I'm looking at Teksavvy premium dry loop ($29.95) plus Band rate
> ($9.10 in my case) am I going to also see a monthly charge from bell?
> If so - what is it?
No Bell charges already 20$ to the ISP for the DSLAM-ATM part of the network,
then charges 9.10$ to put 28V on the line from the CO to your home to
"prevent electron migration" or some kind of bullshit like that.
The charge is much less if the ISP has its own DSLAM (e.g. Colba.net )
> And why is the band rate related to distance from CO? What does
> distance have to do with the cost structure for the copper provider?
It's a CRTC approved tariff. It used to make sense in rural areas
to cover the cost of the wire all the way to the farm 5 miles away from
the village, or someting like that.
> In fact, with speed falling as distance goes up, you're paying more in band
> charges for potentially a slower connection. No?
Yes, the current dry-loop cost structure discourages the phone company
from improving the service by placing a remote DSLAM closer to you.
JF Mezei
> So if I'm looking at Teksavvy premium dry loop ($29.95) plus Band rate
> ($9.10 in my case) am I going to also see a monthly charge from bell?
Nop. The "dry loop" fee allows you to be totally free of a relationship
with Bell because the ISP pays the totality of the DSL/twisted pair
connection to your home. So you don't see any other fees.
When you have a POTS telephone service, Bell already gets the revenus to
maintain the twisted pair to your home.
> And why is the band rate related to distance from CO?
It generally has to do with population density. In large urban areas,
the cost of having a central office is shared amongst many more
customers. In rural areas, the central office covers a huge geographical
area with lots of cabling/wiring to link it up, so the cost per
subscriber is higher.
Some Guy
> > And why is the band rate related to distance from CO?
>
> It generally has to do with population density. In large urban
> areas, the cost of having a central office is shared amongst
> many more customers.
My CO is one of maybe 4 in a city of about 350 - 400k people.
Why would I not be in Band-A instead of Band-B?
Where are the areas in Ontario that are Band-A ?
What is the smallest CO (in terms of households or population-served)
where the clients would still be considered Band-A ?
Mike Drechsler - SPAM PROTECTED EMAIL
Band A would be a main long distance hub. In phone company lingo the
"Toll Switch". That's were all the long distance lines in your region
go through.
To be Band A you need high density and a major Toll Switch to be in the
same location.
In a Band B central office your ADSL traffic will need to go out through
a aggregated connection back to the major regional exchange point before
it can be handed off to the ISP. This extra connection is why it's a
bit more.
And the dry loop costs cover the long term maintenance fees. Like a
reserve fund in a condo. Take the average life of a copper network
before every segment would need replacement (30 years lets say) plus the
average rate of repair and amortize those costs over the lifetime of the
cable and you should come close to the amount they charge for a dry loop
(That's the theory). Your ISP would pay the same loop rate if they had
their own equipment in the central office and ran their own ADSL hardware.
To the original poster:
> How exactly do I go about cancelling the phone service on my line, and
> keep the DSL service on it during a transition to another ISP?
I believe you can expect downtime when switching of about a week. (You
may not but it's best to expect the downtime)
Most homes have more than a single pair of wires coming in. You could
order a second connection on one of those to be installed and then
cancel the original with the phone to reduce the confusion at Bell.
You could also get some other alternative lined up just in case like
Cable modem, Cellular wireless, Fixed wireless, or pre Wimax service
from Rogers or Bell via their Inukshuk network. Or just suffer through
any downtime you experience if it's not that important.
Geoffrey Welsh
> And why is the band rate related to distance from CO? What does
> distance have to do with the cost structure for the copper provider?
> In fact, with speed falling as distance goes up, you're paying more
> in band charges for potentially a slower connection. No?
Yes, but the cost of installing and/or repairing a copper loop is orders of
magnitude higher than bandwidth costs.
Sid Elbow
> To the original poster:
>> How exactly do I go about cancelling the phone service on my line, and
>> keep the DSL service on it during a transition to another ISP?
>
> I believe you can expect downtime when switching of about a week. (You
> may not but it's best to expect the downtime)
I just did this a month ago - canceled my Local Phone Service with Bell
and transferred it to Teksavvy (my DSL ISP). Teksavvy handled the whole
thing and there was no interruption in service for either the phone or
the DSL.
Madonna
> their own equipment in the central office and ran their own ADSL hardware.
I've been told the charge is less when they provide the power to the line themselves.
Some Guy
> > How exactly do I go about cancelling the phone service on my line,
> > and keep the DSL service on it during a transition to another ISP?
>
> I believe you can expect downtime when switching of about a week.
> (You may not but it's best to expect the downtime)
>
> Most homes have more than a single pair of wires coming in. You
> could order a second connection on one of those to be installed
> and then cancel the original with the phone to reduce the confusion
> at Bell.
Yes, I have 1 cable (4 wires) coming in. The first pair being the
original premisis phone line, the second pair being a second line that
was added just after I moved in.
When I started to look into DSL (7+ years ago) DSL was not available on
the first line, but it was available on the second line. Theory is that
the second line beyond the demark point is wired to either a different
CO or through different pedistals or dslams which allows it to carry DSL
whereas the first (legacy) line is technically incapable (as wired) to
carry DSL.
> Or just suffer through any downtime you experience if
> it's not that important.
The downtime is not important.
What I'm afraid of is having my line re-wired or someone else being
connected to my line to the dslam or otherwise having inferior
performace when the dry-dsl comes back on-line.