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Chretien And Liberals Fear Stockwell Day

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nkennedy

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Mar 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/17/00
to
"Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is
no HTML problem and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So what
are you guys going to complain about now?" -> Ciceroii

Your formatting is a minor problem. You should have checked the
content. Now there is something splayed and disjointed.
A new editor does you little good. Try a new library.

Neil K

Ciceroii

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
Apparently many Ontario Liberal MPs are shaking in their boots in fear
of losing their seats to Stockwell Day, the new leader-to-be of the Alliance Party. These Ontario
Liberal MPs are in the 905 and 705 belts around and north of the GTA and in the
last federal election they just scraped through with narrow wins over their Reform
Party opponents.

With the very articulate and dynamic right-wing Stockwell Day heading the Alliance
Party, it could well be a different story. There would go the slim Liberal majority.
Day is much like Texas Governor George W. Bush, whose slogan is "A Reformer with
Results". Like Bush, Day has those results as treasurer of Alberta, the first province or government
in Canada to balance its budget, and with the lowest taxes. Day has come in with surpluses
now for several budgets and has even introduced a much- needed and welcome flat tax in Alberta.

He offers the reform that Canada needs: lower federal taxes, less wasteful spending,
and end to corrupt patronage and vote buying, a much tougher stance on crime, termination
of the Young Offenders' Act, more
decentralization, a triple-E Senate, a reduction of the number of MPs and senators, a provincially appointed Supreme Court, and end to provincial transfer payments and
crony capitalism, the restoration of Canada's defense forces, reforms in education such as school vouchers and charter schools.
the termination of Big Labor's special privileges etc.

Stockwell Day would represent change and Reform, whereas Chretien's corrupt, jaded and
tired old-style politicians are a spent force. They are burned out--that is not to say that they
did anything in burning themselves out. They were already old hacks and Liberal toadies when
they first went to Ottawa.


Ciceroii

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
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Ciceroii wrote:

***

Wes Moxam

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
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Your formatting is usually fucked up when you reply to a message,
especially when it is a particularly long thread.

--
Wes Moxam
http://24.114.43.132:4080/index.html

nolam...@my-deja.com

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
Ciceroii <cice...@home.com> wrote:

> ***
> Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is
> no HTML problem and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So
> what are you guys going to complain about now?

Your simple-mindedness.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

shewobbles

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
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"Wes Moxam" <wmoxam@_NO_SPAM_acs.ryerson.ca> wrote in message
news:GjCA4.33647$Hq3.7...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...

>
> Your formatting is usually fucked up when you reply to a message,
> especially when it is a particularly long thread.
>
> --
> Wes Moxam
> http://24.114.43.132:4080/index.html

So is mine, when I first used Outlook Express, I just opened it and
used
it with the default settings. My kids downloaded & installed a new
desktop them which changed stuff all over my computer. Since I don't
know what the default settings were, I can't reset them. I don't know
anything about computers, but I think I need to change the cpi on my
newsreader, but I don't know to what, any suggestions? Thanks


John Angus

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
Ciceroii (cice...@home.com) writes:
>
> ***
> Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is no HTML problem
> and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So what are you guys going to complain
> about now?


It depends on the newsreader.
In this newsreader your lines come out looking like this:

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

I'm having the same problems myself, btw, since I started using
Netscape Communicator to post. What's happening is that your
lines are being wrapped at a certain number, but your carriage
returns are not being removed. So the line is being shaved at
that number, and then shaved immediately afterwards at whatever
point you hit return.


JA

shewobbles

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
"Ciceroii" <cice...@home.com> wrote in message
news:38D2E316...@home.com...

> Apparently many Ontario Liberal MPs are shaking in their boots in
>fear of losing their seats to Stockwell Day, the new leader-to-be of
>the Alliance Party.

This has been reported in the press, the only place it could have
come from is the Liberals. Why believe it? Whatever else they
are, they are sly, cunning & crafty. If they say they fear Day, since
they are Liberals, we can only surmise that they want him to win.

>These Ontario Liberal MPs are in the 905 and 705 belts around >and
north of the GTA and in the last federal election they just >scraped
through with narrow wins over their Reform Party >opponents.

This is, quite simply, a lie. Name the seats where a Liberal "just
scraped through with a narrow win" over a Reformer.

> With the very articulate and dynamic right-wing Stockwell Day
>heading the Alliance Party, it could well be a different story. There
>would go the slim Liberal majority. Day is much like Texas >Governor
George W. Bush, whose slogan is "A Reformer with
> Results". Like Bush, Day has those results as treasurer of Alberta,
>the first province or government in Canada to balance its budget,
>and with the lowest taxes. Day has come in with surpluses now for
>several budgets and has even introduced a much- needed and >welcome
flat tax in Alberta.

Makes we want to tell you I don't need my carpets cleaned for a
super-duper special price, even if you are going to be in my area

> He offers the reform that Canada needs: lower federal taxes, less
>wasteful spending, and end to corrupt patronage and vote buying, a
>much tougher stance on crime, termination of the Young Offenders'
>Act, more decentralization, a triple-E Senate, a reduction of the
>number of MPs and senators, a provincially appointed Supreme >Court,
and end to provincial transfer payments and crony >capitalism, the
restoration of Canada's defense forces, reforms in >education such as
school vouchers and charter schools.
> the termination of Big Labor's special privileges etc.

Well that part at least is true, he supports rat unions like CLAC

> Stockwell Day would represent change and Reform, whereas >Chretien's
corrupt, jaded and tired old-style politicians are a spent >force.
They are burned out--that is not to say that they did anything >in
burning themselves out. They were already old hacks and Liberal
>toadies when they first went to Ottawa.

OOOPS, there went the swing vote in the middle-aged crowd

nolam...@my-deja.com

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
"shewobbles" <lizm...@home.com> wrote:

> Johhn Lambourn <cice...@home.com> wrote:

> > Apparently many Ontario Liberal MPs are shaking in their boots in
> >fear of losing their seats to Stockwell Day, the new leader-to-be of
> >the Alliance Party.

> This has been reported in the press, the only place it could have
> come from is the Liberals. Why believe it? Whatever else they
> are, they are sly, cunning & crafty. If they say they fear Day, since
> they are Liberals, we can only surmise that they want him to win.

Of course they do! They know his bible-thumping social conservatism -
to the right even of Mike Harris - will continue to make Reform a pariah
east of Saskatchewan, and erode Reform support in much of British
Columbia.


> >These Ontario Liberal MPs are in the 905 and 705 belts around and
> north of the GTA and in the last federal election they just scraped
> through with narrow wins over their Reform Party opponents.

> This is, quite simply, a lie.

Lambourn does that a lot in these groups.

> Name the seats where a Liberal "just
> scraped through with a narrow win" over a Reformer.

> > With the very articulate and dynamic right-wing Stockwell Day
> >heading the Alliance Party, it could well be a different story. There
> >would go the slim Liberal majority. Day is much like Texas >Governor
> George W. Bush, whose slogan is "A Reformer with
> > Results". Like Bush, Day has those results as treasurer of Alberta,
> >the first province or government in Canada to balance its budget,
> >and with the lowest taxes. Day has come in with surpluses now for
> >several budgets and has even introduced a much- needed and >welcome
> flat tax in Alberta.

> Makes we want to tell you I don't need my carpets cleaned for a
> super-duper special price, even if you are going to be in my area

Bear in mind that Lambourn IS in the insurance business.
>

> > They are burned out--that is not to say that they did anything in
> > burning themselves out. They were already old hacks and Liberal
> > toadies when they first went to Ottawa.
>
> OOOPS, there went the swing vote in the middle-aged crowd

Lambourn has nothing but contempt for the canadian voters - her
regularly berates them as "stupid" when they don't support his marginal
causes and loser Reform politicians. This tells me that Mr. Lambourn has
little respect for democracy and the will of the people.

Keith Baldwin

unread,
Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
> > Apparently many Ontario Liberal MPs are shaking in their boots in
> >fear of losing their seats to Stockwell Day, the new leader-to-be of
> >the Alliance Party.
>
> This has been reported in the press, the only place it could have
> come from is the Liberals. Why believe it? Whatever else they
> are, they are sly, cunning & crafty. If they say they fear Day, since
> they are Liberals, we can only surmise that they want him to win.

The National Post wants the Liberals to win?? I don't think so. Day has
some serious drawbacks, with the scary religious right stuff, but Chretien
has some serious drawbacks as well, he's a corrupt weasel. Day would
absolutely slaughter Chretien in the debate, and when ads start airing
showing that Quebec received 3 times the amount of grants from TJF/CJF in
absolute dollars than any other province, and that Chretien's own riding
received more than Alberta, Nunavut, NWT and the Yukon combined, it'll have
some people wondering if Jean can be entrusted with a majority government
again. I love it that Chretien is running again. The only way for him to
go is down.

> >These Ontario Liberal MPs are in the 905 and 705 belts around >and
> north of the GTA and in the last federal election they just >scraped
> through with narrow wins over their Reform Party >opponents.
>

> This is, quite simply, a lie. Name the seats where a Liberal "just


> scraped through with a narrow win" over a Reformer.

I'm gonna check to see if I can get some results from the past federal
election. I know though, off the top of my head, that at least 25 of the
Liberal victories were by margins less than 5% in Ontario (which would mean
that if you combined Reform & Tory votes, the Liberals would have lost). I
would characterize these as narrow wins.

> > Stockwell Day would represent change and Reform, whereas >Chretien's
> corrupt, jaded and tired old-style politicians are a spent >force.

> They are burned out--that is not to say that they did anything >in
> burning themselves out. They were already old hacks and Liberal
> >toadies when they first went to Ottawa.
>
> OOOPS, there went the swing vote in the middle-aged crowd

I don't get your point here.

Ok, back in a bit.


Ciceroii

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

John Angus wrote:
>
> Ciceroii (cice...@home.com) writes:
> >
> > ***
> > Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is no HTML problem
> > and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So what are you guys going to complain
> > about now?
>
> It depends on the newsreader.
> In this newsreader your lines come out looking like this:
>
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah blah
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah blah
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

> That is understandable for a Liberal or Red Tory like you, John.
You are quite content to see Canada remain a one-party state.

Ciceroii

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

nolam...@my-deja.com wrote:


>
> Ciceroii <cice...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > ***
> > Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is
> > no HTML problem and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So
> > what are you guys going to complain about now?
>

> Your simple-mindedness.
>
> Are you trying to be witty Commissar David Reilley? Admit it, you are worried
about Day. He was born and grew up in Ontario, thus it is very unlikely
Chretien will ever sweep this province again.

shewobbles

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

"Keith Baldwin" <kbaNl...@PatAtcManada.net> wrote in message
news:82JA4.13499$Xk2....@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...

> > > Apparently many Ontario Liberal MPs are shaking in their boots
in
> > >fear of losing their seats to Stockwell Day, the new leader-to-be
of
> > >the Alliance Party.
> >
> > This has been reported in the press, the only place it could have
> > come from is the Liberals. Why believe it? Whatever else they
> > are, they are sly, cunning & crafty. If they say they fear Day,
since
> > they are Liberals, we can only surmise that they want him to win.
>
> The National Post wants the Liberals to win??

That's not what I said. The press has reported the Liberals "fear" of
Day. Assuming they didn't make it up, where do you suppose they heard
it? From Liberals, right? Now what would be a Liberals motive to
tell
such a thing to a reporter?

Just off the top of my head, I would say the number I heard is 28,
that is if
the Reform/Tory vote was combined, the Liberal would have lost,
meaning
that the Liberal got less than 50% of the vote. I don't characterize
it as a
"narrow win" at all. Sissy Roy is implying that if the CRAP candidate
did
just a wee bit better, they would beat the Liberal, remember there
will be a
Tory running in each of those ridings as well.

> > > Stockwell Day would represent change and Reform, whereas
>Chretien's
> > corrupt, jaded and tired old-style politicians are a spent
>force.
> > They are burned out--that is not to say that they did anything >in
> > burning themselves out. They were already old hacks and Liberal
> > >toadies when they first went to Ottawa.
> >
> > OOOPS, there went the swing vote in the middle-aged crowd
>
> I don't get your point here.

If I were an undecided voter, and old enough to be described as an
"old hack", comments like the one above may offend me to the point
that I would react in offense to everything the maker of the remark
had to say.


shewobbles

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
"Ciceroii" <cice...@home.com> wrote in message
news:38D3770C...@home.com...

Wow that is so relevant, Ontarians having repeatedly demonstrated
in the past, that they prefer leaders from Ontario.

Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
John Angus wrote:
>
> Ciceroii (cice...@home.com) writes:
> >
> > ***
> > Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is no HTML problem
> > and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So what are you guys going to complain
> > about now?
>
> It depends on the newsreader.
> In this newsreader your lines come out looking like this:
>
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah blah
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah blah
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>
> I'm having the same problems myself, btw, since I started using
> Netscape Communicator to post. What's happening is that your
> lines are being wrapped at a certain number, but your carriage
> returns are not being removed. So the line is being shaved at
> that number, and then shaved immediately afterwards at whatever
> point you hit return.


I am of the opinion that in most newsreaders, including Netscape
Communicator, it is only necessary to set the line length and type your
message. It is not necessary to "hit return" except to start a new
paragraph. Your last para above is fine except your line length could be
longer, it appears to be set at 64.

Cheers

Carter

Wes Moxam

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

I don't use Outlook Express..... but I think that it should be similar
to netscape... hmmm... I'll take a look at Outlook Express at school
sometime next week to see what options should be set and how to change
them. I'll let you know what I find out.

Keith Baldwin

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

nohow <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:vjf7ds4sd99cbjrml...@4ax.com...

> >What is remarkable is how many seats the Liberals would lose if you'd
> >combine the Reform and PC votes. The ridings that would change:
>
> Which is pretty well meaningless when poll after poll shows that the
> largest second choice among federal PC Ontario voters is the Liberal
> party.

Possibly. Many will, but I think many PCs will come to the conclusion that,
like me, the benefit of voting for the CA and their fiscal responsibility
policies (fairer tax system, tackling the debt, etc.) outweigh the
possibility of socially conservative legislation. Remember, Reform/CA is a
populist party, they will not try to pass any legislation that meets with
substantial public opposition. I am comfortable that I would be able to
stop Reform/CA from implementing such policies with the aid of other
Canadians.

I would like to see a more recent poll on this very subject, in the light of
the HRDC scandal (read political slush fund). PC voters, if they are truly
conservative, will abhor this waste of funds and the disgusting act of
arrogance and gall in defending them afterwards. If they are not
conservative, as many are in the PC party, then they should become Liberals.

It's all part of the process of political re-alignment in this country.
Canada is too left-leaning at the moment, with a virtual one-party system
(and not just recently, though more so recently. The Liberals have been in
power most of the last century by a large margin - not indicative of a
healthy democracy).


Keith Baldwin

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

nohow <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:hnf7dscqe9b3libe0...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:03:40 GMT, Ciceroii <cice...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Apparently many Ontario Liberal MPs are shaking in their boots in fear
> >of losing their seats to Stockwell Day, the new leader-to-be of the
Alliance Party. These Ontario

> >Liberal MPs are in the 905 and 705 belts around and north of the GTA and
in the
> >last federal election they just scraped through with narrow wins over
their Reform
> >Party opponents.
> >
> >With the very articulate and dynamic right-wing Stockwell Day heading the
Alliance
> >Party, it could well be a different story. There would go the slim
Liberal majority.
> >Day is much like Texas Governor George W. Bush, whose slogan is "A
Reformer with
> >Results". Like Bush, Day has those results as treasurer of Alberta, the
first province or government
> >in Canada to balance its budget, and with the lowest taxes. Day has come
in with surpluses
> >now for several budgets and has even introduced a much- needed and
welcome flat tax in Alberta.
>
> By the time the federal Liberal spin machine gets done with Stockwell
> Day his name will be synonymous with intolerance. Day's
> accomplishemnts would be impressive in any other province but Alberta.
> Hell, Joy McPhail could come in with a balance budget in Alberta. And
> George Bush's slogan is just that - a slogan. He is no reformer.

I don't buy this either. Reform/CA will be able to paint Chretien as the
corrupt politician. Chretien's own riding of St. Maurice received more TJF
grants than Alberta, Manitoba, or Saskatchewan, despite low unemployment in
some of those provinces. Can the people of Alberta, Manitoba, and
Saskatchewan like that much? I don't think so.

There will also be ads showing Chretien in opposition in '92 making a speech
about the accountability of ministers if he were to form the government. To
this most Canadians will respond, "Shya, right". Ms. Stewart wouldn't know
the word accountability or the concept of honour if it hit her on the head.
Anyone with just a shred of dignity and respect for the office would have
resigned by now. Instead, you can catch Ms. Stewart talking about "our 6
point plan" left and right. Dear Jane, quit talking about it, and do it
then.

I suppose that Joy McPhail could balance the budget and stoke the economic
fires in Ontario, too? I seriously doubt it. The NDP almost crippled
Ontario, as they have done with BC. The new jobs created in Canada have
disproportionately been created in Ontario and Alberta. That's due to the
policies of the finance ministers of those provinces. Not due to the
Liberal government of Canada, who of course takes great pleasure anyway in
patting themselves on their backs for this "accomplishment". Most people in
Ontario know this to be true (that the Conservatives have given the economic
impetus).

I think the Liberals will be lucky to earn a minority government in the next
election. If Paul Martin were PM, then I would concede there would be a
possibility for another majority. But Chretien's antics are wearing thin
these days. People will look somewhere else for inspiration when the
election is called. When the Liberals do call the next election, watch for
the 10%+ drop in support from the polls before the election was called. You
know it will happen. It always does with the front-runner. People ask "Now
why should we elect you again?" Hearing Chretien's uninspiring response to
this question, many will look elsewhere. What can I say, soft support is a
bitch.

As for Day, it is uncertain whether he will win. But say he does. He has
said some pretty dumbass things in the past. But I haven't seen any
policies that he's helped implement in Alberta that could be seen as
intolerant. Many Ontarians will give him a chance to prove himself.


Orca Boy

unread,
Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
Why wouldnt you use IE4? Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
right price. Netscape is going down the tank.

"Carter Lee" <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:38D387EC...@ns.sympatico.ca...

Rick Jones

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Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
On 18 Mar 2000 06:25:08 GMT, an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus)
wrote:

>Ciceroii (cice...@home.com) writes:
>>
>> ***
>> Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and there is no HTML problem
>> and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So what are you guys going to complain
>> about now?
>
>
>It depends on the newsreader.
>In this newsreader your lines come out looking like this:
>
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>blah blah
>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

What newsreader are you using? On mine his posts read as follows:

Yadda yadda yadda yadda. Yadda, yadda yadda! Yadda yadda, too many
Holocaust movies. Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda
yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda 95% support among Jews.

>


Ciceroii

unread,
Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to

> All of the above only proves that on substance you have lost the debate.
You jerks have no knowledge to support your untenable
positions, and your attempts at humor are puerile and infantile.

shewobbles

unread,
Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
"Ciceroii" <cice...@home.com> wrote in message
news:38D4067E...@home.com...

>
> Rick Jones wrote:
> >
, an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus) wrote:
> >
> > >Ciceroii (cice...@home.com) writes:
> > >>
> > >> ***
> > >
> > >It depends on the newsreader.
> > >In this newsreader your lines come out looking like this:
> > >
> > >blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> > >blah blah
> > >blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> >
> > What newsreader are you using? On mine his posts read as follows:
> >
> > Yadda yadda yadda yadda. Yadda, yadda yadda! Yadda yadda, too many
> > Holocaust movies. Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda
> > yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda 95% support among Jews.
> >
> All of the above only proves that on substance you have lost the
debate.
> You jerks have no knowledge to support your untenable
> positions, and your attempts at humor are puerile and infantile.

What debate? Here is what you said


> > >> Okay, I have just brought this post up on my news reader and
there is no HTML problem
> > >> and I can see nothing wrong with the formatting. So what are
you guys going to complain
> > >> about now?

BTW, congratulations, without making any attempts at humour, you are
peurile, infantile *and* humorous. Thanks for the laughs

Van Hayden

unread,
Mar 18, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/18/00
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:09:24 GMT, "Orca Boy" <koole...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Why wouldnt you use IE4? Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>right price. Netscape is going down the tank.

That is your opinion. I have IE5 and still prefer Netscape. But as far
as newsreaders go Free Agent beats them both hands down and it doesn't
take so long to download as IE and Netscape. Its a great little
Newsreader.. You can download it Free at: http:// www.forteinc.com


Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
Orca Boy wrote:
>
> Why wouldnt you use IE4?

Because Netscape works better and nobody tried to force me to use it.

Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
> right price.

I don't like or dislike Bill I just resent him trying to force me to use
his product. Netscape costs the same, nothing. Just the time to
download it.

Netscape is going down the tank.

If by that you mean going out of business I would be interested to know
where and how you formed that opinion. I see no signs of it.

Carter

Honest John

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Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:23:08 GMT, "shewobbles" <lizm...@home.com>
wrote:

>"Wes Moxam" <wmoxam@_NO_SPAM_acs.ryerson.ca> wrote in message
>news:GjCA4.33647$Hq3.7...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
>>
>> Your formatting is usually fucked up when you reply to a message,
>> especially when it is a particularly long thread.
>>
>> --
>> Wes Moxam
>> http://24.114.43.132:4080/index.html
>
>So is mine, when I first used Outlook Express, I just opened it and
>used
>it with the default settings. My kids downloaded & installed a new
>desktop them which changed stuff all over my computer. Since I don't
>know what the default settings were, I can't reset them. I don't know
>anything about computers, but I think I need to change the cpi on my
>newsreader, but I don't know to what, any suggestions? Thanks
>

Try different settings and see what they look like. You can always
change back.


John Savard

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:09:24 GMT, "Orca Boy" <koole...@hotmail.com>
wrote, in part:

>Why wouldnt you use IE4? Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>right price. Netscape is going down the tank.

Well, I find it rather awkward to use. Something about the bookmarks
doesn't quite work right in the interface.

And I'm less trusting that it will be secure.

John Savard (teneerf <-)
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

Rick Jones

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:47:00 GMT, Ciceroii <cice...@home.com> wrote:

>
>
>Rick Jones wrote:

>> All of the above only proves that on substance you have lost the debate.
> You jerks have no knowledge to support your untenable
> positions, and your attempts at humor are puerile and infantile.

Perhaps. But can you please explain where your evidence is that the
Democratic Party once enjoyed 95% support among American Jews?


nolam...@my-deja.com

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
Ciceroii <cice...@home.com> wrote:
>
> nolam...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Ciceroii <cice...@home.com> wrote:
> >

> > > So what are you guys going to complain about now?
> >

> > Your simple-mindedness.

> Are you trying to be witty

Trying?


> Admit it, you are worried about Day. He was born and grew up in
> Ontario, thus it is very unlikely Chretien will ever sweep this
> province again.

That's it! You've found the secret! All someone has to do to sweep
Ontario is be born in that province. Of course, that didn't really work
for all the Ontario-born Reform candidates that lost the race in the
last federal election. And it certainly doesn't work for you... you
were apparently born in Ontario, raised there and work tyhere... yet you
are still a loser. Go figure!

E. Barry Bruyea

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>Orca Boy wrote:
>>
>> Why wouldnt you use IE4?
>

>Because Netscape works better and nobody tried to force me to use it.
>

> Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>> right price.
>

>I don't like or dislike Bill I just resent him trying to force me to use
>his product. Netscape costs the same, nothing. Just the time to
>download it.
>

> Netscape is going down the tank.
>

>If by that you mean going out of business I would be interested to know
>where and how you formed that opinion. I see no signs of it.
>
>Carter


Well, there is the Monday morning quarterback school of thought that
asks the question; "Why did AOL buy a company whose share of market
was shrinking and would continue to do so as long as it was a one
trick pony?" As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
be innovative, at least in any public way, the question is valid and
yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of
the massive presence of MS. I still use Netscape, and have since the
first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is
around. The later being the big question.

EBB

Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >Orca Boy wrote:
> >>
> >> Why wouldnt you use IE4?
> >
> >Because Netscape works better and nobody tried to force me to use it.
> >
> > Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
> >> right price.
> >
> >I don't like or dislike Bill I just resent him trying to force me to use
> >his product. Netscape costs the same, nothing. Just the time to
> >download it.
> >
> > Netscape is going down the tank.
> >
> >If by that you mean going out of business I would be interested to know
> >where and how you formed that opinion. I see no signs of it.
> >
> >Carter
>
> Well, there is the Monday morning quarterback school of thought that
> asks the question; "Why did AOL buy a company whose share of market
> was shrinking and would continue to do so as long as it was a one
> trick pony?"

That is an excellent question. Do you have any answers?

As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
> be innovative, at least in any public way,


Netscape is and always has been as good or better than MSIE. What is it
you want, a net browser that will wash your breakfast dishes?

the question is valid

But still no answers.

and
> yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of
> the massive presence of MS.


Agreed but more to the point it was shrinking because of Microsoft's
predatory marketing practises.

I still use Netscape, and have since the
> first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is
> around.


Me too.

The later being the big question.

Not a concern.


Carter

E. Barry Bruyea

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:45:55 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Orca Boy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Why wouldnt you use IE4?
>> >
>> >Because Netscape works better and nobody tried to force me to use it.
>> >
>> > Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>> >> right price.
>> >
>> >I don't like or dislike Bill I just resent him trying to force me to use
>> >his product. Netscape costs the same, nothing. Just the time to
>> >download it.
>> >
>> > Netscape is going down the tank.
>> >
>> >If by that you mean going out of business I would be interested to know
>> >where and how you formed that opinion. I see no signs of it.
>> >
>> >Carter
>>
>> Well, there is the Monday morning quarterback school of thought that
>> asks the question; "Why did AOL buy a company whose share of market
>> was shrinking and would continue to do so as long as it was a one
>> trick pony?"
>
>That is an excellent question. Do you have any answers?

Only that if I had been a stockholder in AOL I would have written or
emailed the CEO to ask he had a f...... clue what the hell he is
doing.


>
> As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
>> be innovative, at least in any public way,
>
>
>Netscape is and always has been as good or better than MSIE. What is it
>you want, a net browser that will wash your breakfast dishes?

I'm not saying it isn't. If you'd learn to read, you'd see I stated I
use it myself and always have since its first iteration. By my
comment concerning Netscapes lack of innovation, I meant as a software
company. They are still a one trick pony. And I still maintain that
it was a bad business decision on AOL's part to buy the company,
especially given what they paid for it.

>
> the question is valid
>
>But still no answers.
>
> and
>> yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of
>> the massive presence of MS.
>
>
>Agreed but more to the point it was shrinking because of Microsoft's
>predatory marketing practises.
>
> I still use Netscape, and have since the
>> first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is
>> around.
>
>
>Me too.
>
> The later being the big question.
>
>Not a concern.
>
>
>Carter

EBB

Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:

> >> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
> >> wrote:

> >That is an excellent question. Do you have any answers?
>
> Only that if I had been a stockholder in AOL I would have written or
> emailed the CEO to ask he had a f...... clue what the hell he is
> doing.

Sorry that is not an answer, only (partially) another question.


> >
> > As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
> >> be innovative, at least in any public way,
> >
> >
> >Netscape is and always has been as good or better than MSIE. What is it
> >you want, a net browser that will wash your breakfast dishes?
>
> I'm not saying it isn't. If you'd learn to read, you'd see I stated I
> use it myself and always have since its first iteration.

My ability to read is just fine thank you, I even know what iteration
means. notwithstanding that the phrase "first iteration" is somewhat
redundant I understand what you mean.

By my
> comment concerning Netscapes lack of innovation, I meant as a software
> company.

That is exactly the way I meant my comment also. Netscape makes one of
the best, if not the best, net browsers on the market. They keep it
updated so that it easily interfaces with the improvements (at least
changes) in the MS Windows environment. As a user I expect nothing
more. If you are the best or close to it why should you branch out into
other products, I assume that is what you mean by innovation.

They are still a one trick pony.

"One trick pony" means little, it is simply a buzz word, or phrase.
Netscape makes one of the best web browsers on the market just as Cross
make one of the best pens on the market. Neither company got where they
are without innovation. The world is full of people and companies
concentrating on being the best at a particular thing instead of being
mediocre at a bunch of things.


And I still maintain that
> it was a bad business decision on AOL's part to buy the company,
> especially given what they paid for it.

Fine, I guess you believe you know better than the executives of AOL. I
don't believe that I do.

Carter

Donald J. Dickson

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
In article <38d50591...@news1.sympatico.ca>,
siberRE...@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:45:55 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> >>

BIG SNIP

> >> yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of
> >> the massive presence of MS.
> >
> >
> >Agreed but more to the point it was shrinking because of Microsoft's
> >predatory marketing practises.
> >
> > I still use Netscape, and have since the
> >> first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is
> >> around.
> >
> >
> >Me too.
> >

There is also the unanswered question of what will happen to IE when
Microsoft makes peace with the US gov't. I use Netscape about 95% of the
time but I find there are a few sites that IE will work but Netscape
freezes. BTW I am also a Sympatico although it doesn't show in my return
address. Have you had any problems with the version of Netscape that comes
on the Sympatico disk being refused at a secure site because it's licence
has expired. When I check the Netscape site it says I have the most
current version of Communicator but the copyright only extends to 1998
when the CD was presumably produced.

--
Don Dickson

Remove first "x" from xcx666 to reply by email.

Van Hayden

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:24:25 GMT, xcx...@freenet.carleton.ca (Donald
J. Dickson) wrote:

>There is also the unanswered question of what will happen to IE when
>Microsoft makes peace with the US gov't. I use Netscape about 95% of the
>time but I find there are a few sites that IE will work but Netscape
>freezes. BTW I am also a Sympatico although it doesn't show in my return
>address. Have you had any problems with the version of Netscape that comes
>on the Sympatico disk being refused at a secure site because it's licence
>has expired. When I check the Netscape site it says I have the most
>current version of Communicator but the copyright only extends to 1998
>when the CD was presumably produced.

I also have used Sympatico software but have never come accross the
problem you describe with Netscape. Of course I have upgraded my
Netscape to 4.5 and will upgrade to 4.72 after their server calms
down. I don;t I suggest you upgrade your version of Netscape from
Netscape's homepage.

Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/19/00
to
"Donald J. Dickson" wrote:
>
> In article <38d50591...@news1.sympatico.ca>,
> siberRE...@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:45:55 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> > >>
>
> BIG SNIP
>
> > >> yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of
> > >> the massive presence of MS.
> > >
> > >
> > >Agreed but more to the point it was shrinking because of Microsoft's
> > >predatory marketing practises.
> > >
> > > I still use Netscape, and have since the
> > >> first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is
> > >> around.
> > >
> > >
> > >Me too.
> > >
>
> There is also the unanswered question of what will happen to IE when
> Microsoft makes peace with the US gov't. I use Netscape about 95% of the
> time but I find there are a few sites that IE will work but Netscape
> freezes. BTW I am also a Sympatico although it doesn't show in my return
> address. Have you had any problems with the version of Netscape that comes
> on the Sympatico disk being refused at a secure site because it's licence
> has expired. When I check the Netscape site it says I have the most
> current version of Communicator but the copyright only extends to 1998
> when the CD was presumably produced.

No I haven't had that problem because I don't use the version of
Netscape provided by Sympatico. I live in Nova Scotia and have a high
speed connection called Mpowered PC which is a system designed by
Maritime Tel and Tel (MTT) and Sympatico. The hardware installation and
setup for Mpowered is done by a MTT service rep. He would have
installed Netscape but I preferred to test Mpowered by downloading the
latest version, 4.72, from the Netscape download site. I was not aware
that there is a licence expiration problem with Sympatico's version.
Have they been made aware? I suggest you not try to upgrade your
version at the Netscape download site but rather download version 4.72
directly. It can take up to two hours to download with a dial-up
system, depending on your connection speed, but may be worth it. (five
minutes twenty eight seconds with Mpowered. Started at 39.2 kb/s and
peaked at 47.6 kb/s)

Cheers

Carter

E. Barry Bruyea

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:22:58 -0800, nohow <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:49:01 GMT, siberRE...@sympatico.ca (E.
>Barry Bruyea) wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>wrote:
>>


>>>Orca Boy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldnt you use IE4?
>>>
>>>Because Netscape works better and nobody tried to force me to use it.
>>>
>>> Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>>>> right price.
>>>
>>>I don't like or dislike Bill I just resent him trying to force me to use
>>>his product. Netscape costs the same, nothing. Just the time to
>>>download it.
>>>
>>> Netscape is going down the tank.
>>>
>>>If by that you mean going out of business I would be interested to know
>>>where and how you formed that opinion. I see no signs of it.
>>>
>>>Carter
>>
>>
>>Well, there is the Monday morning quarterback school of thought that
>>asks the question; "Why did AOL buy a company whose share of market
>>was shrinking and would continue to do so as long as it was a one

>>trick pony?" As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
>>be innovative, at least in any public way, the question is valid and

>>yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of

>>the massive presence of MS. I still use Netscape, and have since the


>>first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is

>>around. The later being the big question.
>>
>>EBB
>
>AOL bought Netscape for it's net portal and server technology. AOL
>could care less about Netscape's web browser. Sun's interest is what
>is keeping Communicator alive.


And unfortunetly, they're losing ground in both areas.
>

EBB

E. Barry Bruyea

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:58:00 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>
>> >> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
>> >> wrote:
>

>> >That is an excellent question. Do you have any answers?
>>
>> Only that if I had been a stockholder in AOL I would have written or
>> emailed the CEO to ask he had a f...... clue what the hell he is
>> doing.
>
>Sorry that is not an answer, only (partially) another question.
>> >

>> > As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
>> >> be innovative, at least in any public way,
>> >
>> >

>> >Netscape is and always has been as good or better than MSIE. What is it
>> >you want, a net browser that will wash your breakfast dishes?
>>
>> I'm not saying it isn't. If you'd learn to read, you'd see I stated I
>> use it myself and always have since its first iteration.
>
>My ability to read is just fine thank you, I even know what iteration
>means. notwithstanding that the phrase "first iteration" is somewhat
>redundant I understand what you mean.
>
> By my
>> comment concerning Netscapes lack of innovation, I meant as a software
>> company.
>
>That is exactly the way I meant my comment also. Netscape makes one of
>the best, if not the best, net browsers on the market. They keep it
>updated so that it easily interfaces with the improvements (at least
>changes) in the MS Windows environment. As a user I expect nothing
>more. If you are the best or close to it why should you branch out into
>other products, I assume that is what you mean by innovation.
>
> They are still a one trick pony.
>
>"One trick pony" means little, it is simply a buzz word, or phrase.
>Netscape makes one of the best web browsers on the market just as Cross
>make one of the best pens on the market. Neither company got where they
>are without innovation. The world is full of people and companies
>concentrating on being the best at a particular thing instead of being
>mediocre at a bunch of things.

And Wang made the best word processor in the world 16 years ago and
refused to move away from the stand alone WP. Got any Wang stock?


>
>
> And I still maintain that
>> it was a bad business decision on AOL's part to buy the company,
>> especially given what they paid for it.
>
>Fine, I guess you believe you know better than the executives of AOL. I
>don't believe that I do.
>
>Carter

EBB

E. Barry Bruyea

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:24:25 GMT, xcx...@freenet.carleton.ca (Donald
J. Dickson) wrote:

>In article <38d50591...@news1.sympatico.ca>,
>siberRE...@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:45:55 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>


>> wrote:
>>
>> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>> >>
>

>BIG SNIP


>
>> >> yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of
>> >> the massive presence of MS.
>> >
>> >

>> >Agreed but more to the point it was shrinking because of Microsoft's
>> >predatory marketing practises.
>> >

>> > I still use Netscape, and have since the
>> >> first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is
>> >> around.
>> >
>> >

>> >Me too.
>> >
>
>There is also the unanswered question of what will happen to IE when
>Microsoft makes peace with the US gov't. I use Netscape about 95% of the
>time but I find there are a few sites that IE will work but Netscape
>freezes. BTW I am also a Sympatico although it doesn't show in my return
>address. Have you had any problems with the version of Netscape that comes
>on the Sympatico disk being refused at a secure site because it's licence
>has expired. When I check the Netscape site it says I have the most
>current version of Communicator but the copyright only extends to 1998
>when the CD was presumably produced.
>

>--
>Don Dickson


I've never used the sympatico setup disk. I did a manual setup
because of my configuration at the time. I'm using Netscape 4.7 now,
and have had no problems.
EBB

Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:

> And Wang made the best word processor in the world 16 years ago and
> refused to move away from the stand alone WP. Got any Wang stock?

Nope. Wang's problem BTW was not that they refused to move away from
the stand alone WP but that they were not innovative enough to improve
it so that it would integrate with platforms such as MS Windows. Had
they done that before companies such as Borland did they might well
still have the world's best word processor. Note that Netscape's web
browser will work efficiently in just about any operating system. Note
also that I said "just about" before you throw Linux at me.

Carter

Rickkins

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
As far as newsreaders go "Agent" (the full version) is by far the
best. No contest. As for browsers, now that's another story. I
like netscape better but I find that the 4.5 and up versions are
somewhat buggy. I pray that when their new version comes
out, whenever that, is they will have regained the ground they
have lost to that other guy,whose name we won't mention.


On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:19:45 GMT, siberRE...@sympatico.ca (E.
Barry Bruyea) wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:22:58 -0800, nohow <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:49:01 GMT, siberRE...@sympatico.ca (E.
>>Barry Bruyea) wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 01:13:06 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>


>>>>Orca Boy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why wouldnt you use IE4?
>>>>
>>>>Because Netscape works better and nobody tried to force me to use it.
>>>>
>>>> Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>>>>> right price.
>>>>
>>>>I don't like or dislike Bill I just resent him trying to force me to use
>>>>his product. Netscape costs the same, nothing. Just the time to
>>>>download it.
>>>>
>>>> Netscape is going down the tank.
>>>>
>>>>If by that you mean going out of business I would be interested to know
>>>>where and how you formed that opinion. I see no signs of it.
>>>>
>>>>Carter
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, there is the Monday morning quarterback school of thought that
>>>asks the question; "Why did AOL buy a company whose share of market
>>>was shrinking and would continue to do so as long as it was a one
>>>trick pony?" As Netscape has not shown itself since the purchase to
>>>be innovative, at least in any public way, the question is valid and

>>>yes, their share of market is still shrinking, mostly because of of

>>>the massive presence of MS. I still use Netscape, and have since the


>>>first version came out and will continue to do so as long as it is

E. Barry Bruyea

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:40:39 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:


I think you're missing the point here. First, Windows at the time in
question was a non-starter and any move to make the Wang Stand alone
WP other than a WP was out of the question for Wang, as they, like a
couple of other companies producing WP's at the time saw no future (or
just weren't looking) in any other use of the their machine. I am not
questioning Netscape as an excellent browser, just that AOL's pockets,
being artificially deep at the time, were picked far to easily. IMHO,
it was a bad business decision, especially given what they paid for
it.

EBB

glen

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to

Gravity and Agent are both worth trying, they both come as time limited
demos. www.microplanet.com for Gravity, and www.forteinc.com for Agent. I
use Agent, but it comes down to a Pepsi vs Coke type argument for which one
is better. Try them both.

Note that Forte is no longer developing Agent, so 1.7 is the end of the
road. But it includes an email client, something you don't get with
Gravity. And FreeAgent from Forte is free if that's good enough for ya.

glen

Carter Lee

unread,
Mar 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/20/00
to
"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:40:39 GMT, Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> >
> >> And Wang made the best word processor in the world 16 years ago and
> >> refused to move away from the stand alone WP. Got any Wang stock?
> >
> >Nope. Wang's problem BTW was not that they refused to move away from
> >the stand alone WP but that they were not innovative enough to improve
> >it so that it would integrate with platforms such as MS Windows. Had
> >they done that before companies such as Borland did they might well
> >still have the world's best word processor. Note that Netscape's web
> >browser will work efficiently in just about any operating system. Note
> >also that I said "just about" before you throw Linux at me.
> >
> >Carter
>
> I think you're missing the point here. First, Windows at the time in
> question was a non-starter and any move to make the Wang Stand alone
> WP other than a WP was out of the question for Wang, as they, like a
> couple of other companies producing WP's at the time saw no future (or
> just weren't looking) in any other use of the their machine.

There in fact was no future once the PC came along so one cannot blame
them for getting out of the stand alone WP business. The day that
someone invents something that will replace the pen Cross will either
have to follow suit or get out of the business. Until then both Cross
and Netscape each have viable and competitive products and as long as
they remain viable and competitive will have a share of their respective
markets.

I am not
> questioning Netscape as an excellent browser, just that AOL's pockets,
> being artificially deep at the time, were picked far to easily. IMHO,
> it was a bad business decision, especially given what they paid for
> it.


You are entitled to that opinion but, as I have said before, I don't
know what the executives at AOL know so I am in no position to criticize
their deal with Netscape.

Carter

Tom Asquith

unread,
Mar 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/21/00
to
Yea, verily, on Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:09:24 GMT , Orca Boy witnesseth the
following to bc.politics:

>Why wouldnt you use IE4? Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>right price. Netscape is going down the tank.

Sigh, another newbie who needs to be educated.

First of all Mr. "Orca Boy", the latest incarnation is IE5 -- the
newsreader you are should be referring to is Outlook Express. [Internet
Explorer (IE) is the name of the web browser, not the newsreading
software.]

Second, to be frank, Outlook Express is not the best of the
newsreaders: Microgravity, NewsXpress and Forte Agent are all better
products. Take a look at C/Net's ranking of the newsreaders -- Outlook
is but one step from the basement. (With both of those companies, the
focus is on arranging for products for developers -- not on users.) It
is just that both are marketted better than the other products. (Heck,
when you buy a new PC now, you get a choice of Outlook Express or
Outlook Express. Some choice. But I digress.)

This leads me to my third point to this particular person who missed
the point:

**HTML is not for Usenet.**

I cannot emphasize this enough. The Usenet is the one portion of the
'Net that is supposed to be accessible to everybody. Even the minimal
feature Freenets which lack full web-access can access the Usenet. Not
everyone has a high-priced computers that can handle fancy formatting.
Not everybody accesses the 'Net via Windows or MacOS.

Fourth, on top of that, HTML documents take up more memory than plain
text. BTW, have you ever dissected the way that Communicator or Outlook
post HTML? It consists of posting the same thing twice, once in plain
text and HTML. And the HTML is already takes up 33% to 50% more space.
HTML Usenet messages waste space and bandwidth.

Finally, it is just poor netiquette to post in this manner. The
posted documents are terrible to read and show little consideration for
your fellow 'Net-users. In short, if you want your material to be read,
then get with the program. Otherwise, you can expect yourself to get
ignored, kill-filed or flamed until you finally learn to do it right.
(Sorry, rules are meant to be followed.)

One concluding closing comment: Mr. "Carter Lee" is on the right
track. The line length is handled by most newsreaders... including the
very basic Unix newsreaders. Keep on typing until you reach the end of
the **paragraph** (not line) and then hit return. It'll look fine.
Trust me.


Cheers,
Tom Asquith
tasquith-at-hotmail-dot-com
Delete Spam Filter ("FILTER") to reply.
All SPAMMERS will be reported.

Tom Asquith

unread,
Mar 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/21/00
to
Yea, verily, on Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:41:00 GMT , Van Hayden witnesseth
the following to bc.politics:

>On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:09:24 GMT, "Orca Boy" <koole...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Why wouldnt you use IE4? Whether you like Bill or not it works and at the
>>right price. Netscape is going down the tank.
>
>That is your opinion. I have IE5 and still prefer Netscape. But as far
>as newsreaders go Free Agent beats them both hands down and it doesn't
>take so long to download as IE and Netscape. Its a great little
>Newsreader.. You can download it Free at: http:// www.forteinc.com

I agree with you, Van (on something at least. ;-) ).

Mind you, I've given the commercial version (Forte Agent) a test run and
it's easily the best. The question seems to lie in how much you wish to
spend on your hobby.

Tom Asquith

unread,
Mar 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/21/00
to
Yea, verily, on Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:23:08 GMT , shewobbles witnesseth
the following to can.politics:

>"Wes Moxam" <wmoxam@_NO_SPAM_acs.ryerson.ca> wrote in message
>news:GjCA4.33647$Hq3.7...@news2.rdc1.on.home.com...
>>
>> Your formatting is usually fucked up when you reply to a message,
>> especially when it is a particularly long thread.
>>
>> --
>> Wes Moxam
>> http://24.114.43.132:4080/index.html
>
>So is mine, when I first used Outlook Express, I just opened it and
>used
>it with the default settings. My kids downloaded & installed a new
>desktop them which changed stuff all over my computer. Since I don't
>know what the default settings were, I can't reset them. I don't know
>anything about computers, but I think I need to change the cpi on my
>newsreader, but I don't know to what, any suggestions? Thanks

Okay, here's a quick lesson for Outlook Express 5.0 (4.0 uses a similar
trick).

1. For Outlook Express, the settings are hidden under the "Tools"
pull-down menu. Look for Options. Click on it.

2. Now, you should go to the tab marked "Send". Click on that too.

3. Now, examine your settings -- make sure that they are on "plain text"
for the newsgroups. Ideally, this should be the same for mail too.

(Tip: This is usually the easiest way of telling
spammers from serious 'Net users -- spammers are
usually greedy people who got onto the 'Net to
make a quick buck. As a result, they are usually
so new to e-mail and newsgroups and ignorant about
basic netiquette that they leave on the fancy
settings (as Big Brother Microbugs wants them too.
So, just set your kill-file to detect HTML,
and most of your spam vanishes. Unfortunately,
it still manages to fill up a huge hunk of
space on the server until you deal with it
-- so at best it is only a partial solution.
Personally, I don't filter them because I love
reporting spammers to their ISPs <evil laugh>.
But, I digress.)


4. Now, click on the plain text settings for the newsgroup. You don't
want to use MIME (MIME's more of an e-mail thingy anyhoo); you want to
use Uuencode. (If you want me to tell you why, e-mail me.) Click on
that hover button.

5. The question is now just how many characters you have going across
the screen. Most newsreaders have it set between 72 characters and 76
characters before wrapping starts. Set it for 72 (that's the default).


6. Make sure that you have the auto-indent on (pick an appropriate
character). Most people like the ">" sign. But this is really a matter
of personal preference.

7. Click Ok.

Generally, this will work for most people. (Just remember that the
default fonts are Times New Roman (proportional) and New Courier
(fixed). The size is supposed to be "medium".)

Still, you might find it necessary to fiddle with your screen fonts --
sometimes the settings hav