Major Hell's Angels Bust In manitoba
Greg Carr
Manitoba police make massive Hells Angels bust
By: Melissa Ridgen
A Winnipeg Police officer walks past the front entrance gate - and
its death head logo - to the Hells Angels clubhouse on Scotia Street
on Wednesday morning. (FPNS)
Brandon Police Service officers were part of a 15-month province-wide
organized crime crackdown that culminated yesterday with a massive drug
seizure and 13 arrests in Winnipeg, including two full-patch Hells
Angels and the Manitoba chapter's president.
Dubbed Project Defence, a "long-term covert investigation" was
initiated in November 2004 by the Manitoba Integrated Organized Crime
Task Force targeting "high level members of drug trafficking cells in
the province of Manitoba, including members of the Manitoba Hells
Angels," states a joint press release issued by the Winnipeg Police
Service and RCMP yesterday.
Police and justice sources told The Winnipeg Free Press that an
undercover agent who infiltrated the biker gang more than a year ago
was the key to Manitoba's most elaborate crackdown on organized
crime.
The early-morning raids involved 150 police officers from three police
forces, including Brandon's.
The 13 arrested, including the wife of the man said to be the Manitoba
Hells Angels president, face a variety of charges, from drug
trafficking to extortion to possession of proceeds of crime and other
organized crime-related offences.
BPS Sgt. Ed Riglin said yesterday the local police service has a couple
of officers dedicated to the Integrated Organized Crime Task Force, but
because the investigation is ongoing, he was reluctant to say what role
the officers played in the sting, other than to confirm they were
involved.
A significant portion of Brandon's drug trade is linked to the Hells
Angels in Winnipeg, sources have told the Sun in previous stories.
Police wouldn't say if arrests are anticipated in the Wheat City.
In connection with Project Defence, police yesterday seized a total of
seven kilograms of cocaine, three kilograms of methamphetamine and a
quantity of marijuana. As well, vehicles, a motorcycle, Hells Angels
insignia including club patches, and a prohibited weapon was seized,
along with goods alleged to be associated with proceeds of crime.
Police sources insisted yesterday's raid isn't linked to a similar
one that targeted Hells Angels chapters in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec
last month.
The Manitoba Integrated Organized Crime Task Force was established in
the spring of 2004 through a partnership between the Winnipeg Police
Service, the RCMP, the Brandon Police Service and the provincial
justice department. The mandate of the task force is to "disrupt and
dismantle organized crime in the province of Manitoba."
Those arrested yesterday are to appear in the Manitoba Court of Queen's
Bench in Winnipeg this afternoon. They are: · Ernest John Dew, 46,
of St. Andrews, Man., who is reportedly president of the Manitoba Hells
Angels, is charged with four counts of drug trafficking and three
counts of possession of proceeds of crime
· Ian Matthew Grant, 31, of Winnipeg, who police say is a member of
the Manitoba Hells Angels, is charged with three counts of drug
trafficking, four counts of possession of proceeds of crime, one count
of extortion and one count of commission of an offence for a criminal
organization
· Jeffrey David Peck, 43, of Winnipeg, who police say is a member of
the Manitoba Hells Angels, is charged with two counts of drug
trafficking and two counts of possession of goods obtained by crime.
· Vera Lynn Dew, 37, of St. Andrews, Man., is charged with one count
of drug trafficking
· Jerome Lasbossiere, 35, of Winnipeg, is charged with three counts
of drug trafficking and three counts of possession of proceeds or goods
obtained by crime
· Joshua James Lyons, 23, of Winnipeg, is charged with one count of
drug trafficking and one count of possession of proceeds of crime
· Jason Geordie James McRae, 31, of Winnipeg is charged with two
counts of drug trafficking and one count of possession of proceeds of
crime
· Jose Antonio Neves, 50, of Winnipeg, is charged with three counts
of drug trafficking and three counts of possession of proceeds of crime
· Mark Karl Peter Sichewski, 23, of Winnipeg, is charged with two
counts of drug trafficking
· David Albert Sutherland, 46, of Winnipeg, is charged with three
counts of drug trafficking and three counts of possession of proceeds
of crime
· Marvin Jack Thomas, 47, of Winnipeg, is charged with three counts
of drug trafficking and three counts of possession of proceeds of crime
· Samuel Stephen Thorsteinson, 40, of Winnipeg, is charged with one
count of drug trafficking
· Andre Toupin, 18, of Winnipeg is charged with one count of drug
trafficking and one count of possession of proceeds of crime
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hopefully
the charges will result in convictions this time. Keep the pressure up
law enforcement.
Sean K
SK
"Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1140139812.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
BigScaryBob
and papers and needed you to tell us about it
Awfully condescending and judgmental for a christian aren't you?
So Greg, did you see this site yet?
http://realdealnews.com/
I know it will drive you absolutely nuts to see the boys having so much
fun.
It sure looks like more fun than Mom & Dad's basement huh?
"Sean K" <sean....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d7aJf.1$Hh...@fe23.lga...
Craig
> Did you really think anyone in Winnipeg missed this all over the news
> and papers and needed you to tell us about it
> Awfully condescending and judgmental for a christian aren't you?
>
> So Greg, did you see this site yet?
> http://realdealnews.com/
> I know it will drive you absolutely nuts to see the boys having so much
> fun.
> It sure looks like more fun than Mom & Dad's basement huh?
>
I guess. If hanging out with low-life criminals is your idea
of fun.
Craig
Chili Finger
biker! I'll start with a Vespa, and work my way up the ranks.
Forgive if I don't know this.. but are the HA a drug-situation or a
hate-situation? I've never seen a brother with a patch.
That site looks a little on the White Power side of things (not that I
surf those places, but I am familiar with them).
Just wondering, cuz in the city, we've got the IP, and I wonder is there
a conflict between the HA's and the IP's because of race, or does it
come down to territory ?
All we need it love. And $5 gets you love long time.
Chili Finger
BSB Wrote
BigScaryBob
"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Ps6dnQb5d66W3mve...@giganews.com...
Craig
> Not all are criminals......
But it's a criminal organization and anyone joining it knows
that. IMHO, that makes them guilty by association.
Craig
--
"I used to be a shepherd, but I got fired for always falling
asleep during inventory." --John Mendoza
dartman
"BigScaryBob" <bigsc...@nospamnorthendtattoo.com> wrote in message
news:ByvJf.14$7y...@fe16.lga...
BigScaryBob
Some judge somewhere decided they are a criminal organization and the
public buys it all. Now you proclaim in all your knowledge that they are
all criminals and that's all there is to it.
I know better from experience, that they are NOT all criminals no matter
what
the media, the courts and police say about it.
This attitude just saddens me, especially from people I think are smart
enough to form an opinion that isn't based on police driven propaganda.
"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:GCvJf.431$RQ....@fe17.lga...
BigScaryBob
Some judge somewhere decided they are a criminal organization and the
public buys it all. Now you proclaim in all your knowledge that they are
all criminals and that's all there is to it.
"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:GCvJf.431$RQ....@fe17.lga...
Craig
> Craig you are another one who is speaking from the media's perspective.
> Some judge somewhere decided they are a criminal organization and the
> public buys it all. Now you proclaim in all your knowledge that they are
> all criminals and that's all there is to it.
> I know better from experience, that they are NOT all criminals no matter
> what
> the media, the courts and police say about it.
> This attitude just saddens me, especially from people I think are smart
> enough to form an opinion that isn't based on police driven propaganda.
How else do people form opinions? I've read enough about the
HAs to know they are a criminal organization. I don't need
to join the KKK or attend a meeting to know they are racist
white supremacists.
Are you saying that the media makes up all the stories about
murder, prostitution, drugs? And *one* judge decides they
are a criminal organization? C'mon, Bob.
I am not saying that every Hell's Angel member has been
convicted of, or even committed, a crime. But it has been
documented by police services all over the world, and
written by media all over the world, that the Angels are
deeply involved in organized crime. And anyone who joins the
organization knows this. Do they expect to be able to keep
their distance from the criminality of the organization? I
doubt it.
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>Dude, do you hang out with booty like that? OMG. I'm gonna be a
>biker! I'll start with a Vespa, and work my way up the ranks.
So are up suggesting something evil or criminal about all who ride
motorcycles, fees up now B.
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>BigScaryBob wrote:
>> Not all are criminals......
>
>But it's a criminal organization and anyone joining it knows
>that. IMHO, that makes them guilty by association.
>
>Craig
With your reasoning anyone with gay friends must be gay, anyone who
rides a motorcycle is guilty because they ride one or know an HA. Your
red necked attitude to a situations seems to be, guilty until proven
innocent.
You would have fit in well with the Salem witch hunts.
Craig
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:27:46 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>
>>>Not all are criminals......
>>
>>But it's a criminal organization and anyone joining it knows
>>that. IMHO, that makes them guilty by association.
>>
>>Craig
>
>
> With your reasoning anyone with gay friends must be gay, anyone who
> rides a motorcycle is guilty because they ride one or know an HA. Your
> red necked attitude to a situations seems to be, guilty until proven
> innocent.
>
> You would have fit in well with the Salem witch hunts.
First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did
I say anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post
again, this time without your blinders on.
Third, do you even know what a redneck is? If you did, you
would know it has nothing to do with this situation. Please
stick to rational discussion, without the sensational
name-calling.
Third, Salem witch hunts? LOL.
Craig
>
>
>>>"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>news:Ps6dnQb5d66W3mve...@giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Did you really think anyone in Winnipeg missed this all over the news
>>>>>and papers and needed you to tell us about it
>>>>>Awfully condescending and judgmental for a christian aren't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>So Greg, did you see this site yet?
>>>>>http://realdealnews.com/
>>>>>I know it will drive you absolutely nuts to see the boys having so
>>>>>much fun.
>>>>>It sure looks like more fun than Mom & Dad's basement huh?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I guess. If hanging out with low-life criminals is your idea of fun.
>>>>
>>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
BigScaryBob
society.
The HAs tell you they are a motorcycle club and you still want to label
them criminals because of some of them being involved in criminal
behavior.
They are like any other group in that there will always be a criminal
element involved when there are enough people in the membership.
It's done all the time where people join with no criminal past and they
never do any kind of crimes yet they still manage to gain membership.
This is not the same people that it was in the 60s when you had to do
some major crime to get in.
Like any other men's club, the more you make yourself useful and the
quicker you pay your monthly dues, the more everyone will love you and
want you to be a part of the organization.
Plenty of people keep their distance from the criminality of it.
You say that you aren't saying that they are ALL criminals, yet you also
say they should all be thrown in jail or die in other posts.
I take issue with the way you approach this subject, because I know
members and I know members who have nothing to do with crime, so I know
for a fact that you are wrong when you assume they are all criminals or
even just bad people.
They are not involved in "organized" crime because they are not
organized as a criminal organization. They are a group of people who
form a club and are organized in that way, there just happens to be some
members who behave in a criminal manner. The same as many other groups.
If every time a Shriner was charged with a crime it made headlines,
after a while it would appear that the Shriners were a criminal
organization. Any group of people will look like criminals if their
crimes were reported on a regular basis.
Plenty of people just walk up to them and ask them if they are
interested in doing something like collect a bad debt or beat someone up
for them. It gets hard to be seen as anything else when you wear your
beliefs on your back like they do and the cops and media are constantly
telling you thy are bad people.
Hell you were the one telling me they were going to come to my shop and
beat up the kids hanging around here. It's that kind of extremist crap
that makes you look foolish in all of this and keeps the myths and lies
going about this group.
People are under a misconception about them and if you stopped reading
the papers and books as your only source of info, you would learn what
the real truth is about them. Go have a beer at the clubhouse and see
for yourself. You'd be surprised at how quickly they are willing to have
a beer with you, while you won't even talk to them. You want to report
their arrests, that is your business, but don't be painting them all
with the same brush, it's not the truth in the matter.
"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:vYHJf.3367$7y7....@fe16.lga...
BigScaryBob
> Terry N. Johns wrote:
> First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
>
To people who know better though, it's you that seems ridiculous in all
of this.
> Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did I say
> anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post again, this time
> without your blinders on.
>
This is what plenty of people think and the biker world has coined the
phrase "ride a bike, go to jail" based on that mentality.
It may seem overstated to you, but there are plenty of people who think
exactly the way Terry is describing.
johns
Saw most of the USA ... summer, winter ... best rain and weather
gear ever made. Did all my own maintainance. In the wind from the
60s clear through the 90s. No problems with LE. Sleep anywhere
on the road. Country ham sandwiches in the Appalachians.
Beautiful bikes ... BMW G1000 last 10 years or so. Nice stereo.
johns ( a real biker )
Craig
reply to one of mine. Having said that, it becomes apparent
near the end that BSB thought he was replying to someone
else (possibly Greg Carr).
BigScaryBob wrote:
> The KKK tells you they are a white Supremes group out to advance white
> society.
And that is only part of the story. They conveniently leave
out the part about keeping other races "in their place",
eliminating immigration, etc.
> The HAs tell you they are a motorcycle club and you still want to label
> them criminals because of some of them being involved in criminal
> behavior.
But there is significant evidence that they are more than a
"motorcycle club".
> They are like any other group in that there will always be a criminal
> element involved when there are enough people in the membership.
Please name another "legitimate" group that has had as many
criminal charges and convictions against its members.
> It's done all the time where people join with no criminal past and they
> never do any kind of crimes yet they still manage to gain membership.
OK, I'll concede that point, but they still join knowing
that the HAs are not merely a "motorcycle club".
> This is not the same people that it was in the 60s when you had to do
> some major crime to get in.
True, they have had to change their image from the "outlaws"
of the 60s and 70s.
> Like any other men's club, the more you make yourself useful and the
> quicker you pay your monthly dues, the more everyone will love you and
> want you to be a part of the organization.
Please define "useful". Do you only have to pay your dues on
time to be "loved" and wanted?
> Plenty of people keep their distance from the criminality of it.
> You say that you aren't saying that they are ALL criminals, yet you also
> say they should all be thrown in jail or die in other posts.
Please quote the post where I said they should all be thrown
in jail or die. I never said such nonsense. I never said
they were ALL criminals, either. I said anyone who knowingly
joins a criminal organization is guilty by association.
> I take issue with the way you approach this subject, because I know
> members and I know members who have nothing to do with crime, so I know
> for a fact that you are wrong when you assume they are all criminals or
> even just bad people.
Again, I never said they are ALL criminals. As for the ones
who join and have nothing to do with crime, what do they
expect the organization is all about? What would they do if
their sponsor or chapter president asked them to, let's say,
deliver a package of coke to one of their street dealers?
Would they refuse to do it? Quit the chapter? Report the
crime to the police?
> They are not involved in "organized" crime because they are not
> organized as a criminal organization. They are a group of people who
> form a club and are organized in that way, there just happens to be some
> members who behave in a criminal manner. The same as many other groups.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt when having
these discussions, but your statement that the HAs are not
organized as a criminal organization has me shaking my head.
Do you really believe that?
> If every time a Shriner was charged with a crime it made headlines,
> after a while it would appear that the Shriners were a criminal
> organization. Any group of people will look like criminals if their
> crimes were reported on a regular basis.
And yet, you don't hear much about Shriners dealing drugs,
committing drive-by shootings, killing rivals, etc. Why is
that? Because they don't do such things. The HAs do.
> Plenty of people just walk up to them and ask them if they are
> interested in doing something like collect a bad debt or beat someone up
> for them. It gets hard to be seen as anything else when you wear your
> beliefs on your back like they do and the cops and media are constantly
> telling you thy are bad people.
Not sure what you mean by wearing their beliefs on their
back. As for the cops and the media, you have mentioned that
before. Do you feel there is some worldwide conspiracy to
make the HAs look bad? That all the charges/convictions,
murders, etc. were made up?
> Hell you were the one telling me they were going to come to my shop and
> beat up the kids hanging around here. It's that kind of extremist crap
> that makes you look foolish in all of this and keeps the myths and lies
> going about this group.
OK, now it's clear you have me confused with someone else. I
have *never* posted such nonsense. Let's get that clear.
> People are under a misconception about them and if you stopped reading
> the papers and books as your only source of info, you would learn what
> the real truth is about them. Go have a beer at the clubhouse and see
> for yourself. You'd be surprised at how quickly they are willing to have
> a beer with you, while you won't even talk to them. You want to report
> their arrests, that is your business, but don't be painting them all
> with the same brush, it's not the truth in the matter.
No doubt they would put a good face forward *if* I ever had
a beer at their clubhouse. They're not going to sit down
with a stranger and discuss illegal activities. I've never
had occasion to speak with an HA, nor the opportunity. As
for reporting their arrests, I've never done such a thing.
Craig
> "Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:LtKJf.98$Ls5...@newsfe20.lga...
>
>>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>>First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
>>
>
>
> To people who know better though, it's you that seems ridiculous in all
> of this.
Really? Why is that? Because I don't agree with you?
>
>
>>Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did I say
>>anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post again, this time
>>without your blinders on.
>>
>
>
> This is what plenty of people think and the biker world has coined the
> phrase "ride a bike, go to jail" based on that mentality.
> It may seem overstated to you, but there are plenty of people who think
> exactly the way Terry is describing.
I agree that plenty of people think that way, but Terry
accused me of thinking this and saying it, which I never did.
Craig
Greg Carr
OK lots of pictures of bikers and attractive naked women and cool
looking HD's. How come none of them have tats?? Guess the A list girls
don't want to look like meth addicted hookers working the stroll. What
does a story of Playboy centrefolds fighting on a jet liner have to do
with riding a motorcycle? Their patch wearing comrades are facing
prison and they do stories about drunk girls on planes. That is way so
cool and peachy keen. Excuse me if I yawn. Ohhhhhh gossip it is so very
butch!! Let's put on our leather and chaps and sodomize some pigs over
at the Ken and Robert farm in Port Coquitlam. No pictures of dead
prostitutes this week for some reason. Have to admit the site is 1000%
better than the old one they had but still lots of fluff propaganda.
Saw some of the guys hanging out at the Gotham Steak House across from
the Au Bar they own in Downtown Vancouver the other night.
Greg Carr
of their websites celebrate it or even mention it. Lots of young guys
find out about it the hard way (no pun intended).
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>BigScaryBob wrote:
>> "Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:LtKJf.98$Ls5...@newsfe20.lga...
>>
>>>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>>>First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> To people who know better though, it's you that seems ridiculous in all
>> of this.
>
>Really? Why is that? Because I don't agree with you?
>
>>
>>
>>>Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did I say
>>>anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post again, this time
>>>without your blinders on.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This is what plenty of people think and the biker world has coined the
>> phrase "ride a bike, go to jail" based on that mentality.
>> It may seem overstated to you, but there are plenty of people who think
>> exactly the way Terry is describing.
>
>I agree that plenty of people think that way, but Terry
>accused me of thinking this and saying it, which I never did.
>
>Craig
You have continually said that "all" HA's are criminals.
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
If you are not painting everyone with the same brush please explain
this statement of yours, seems rather self explanatory.
In fact tonight at the St. George there is a get together for a dear
friend that passed away last year, and even though there were be lots
of members there, he was neither one nor did he endorse the club but
he had friends.
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:27:46 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>>
>>>>Not all are criminals......
>>>
>>>But it's a criminal organization and anyone joining it knows
>>>that. IMHO, that makes them guilty by association.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>
>>
>> With your reasoning anyone with gay friends must be gay, anyone who
>> rides a motorcycle is guilty because they ride one or know an HA. Your
>> red necked attitude to a situations seems to be, guilty until proven
>> innocent.
>>
>> You would have fit in well with the Salem witch hunts.
>
>First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
>
>Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did
>I say anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post
>again, this time without your blinders on.
Actually you did, as soon as you said "guilt by association" you
painted everyone with the same brush. With that statement you suggest
that anyone who knows or associates with the HA's should expect to be
considered part of a criminal organization.
So does that mean Harley Davidson Winnipeg is a criminal organization,
they supply parts and bikes to the HA's.
>Third, do you even know what a redneck is? If you did, you
>would know it has nothing to do with this situation. Please
>stick to rational discussion, without the sensational
>name-calling.
>
>Third, Salem witch hunts? LOL.
>
>Craig
>
Just for you Craig, you fit in well:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SALEM.HTM
BigScaryBob
You look ridiculous because you don't know any better but cling to this
belief that you right and know better.
To those who do know better.... you look ridiculous.
It's that simple.
"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:UGNJf.1117$pz7...@fe13.lga...
BigScaryBob
with factual quotes or links to the documentation and studies that found
this out.
I can hardly wait to read this well documented evidence.
This one is really pushing it now.
As soon as you find yourself unable to convince people with your flimsy
arguments, you throw out something like this?
Other than the newspaper articles you like to post I doubt very much you
have ever seen any other kind of documentation or evidence of ANYTHING
else pertaining to the HAs.
Go ahead and make a liar out of me and bring on this evidence......
PLEASE.
"Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1140314867.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Craig
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:00:56 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>
>>>"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>news:LtKJf.98$Ls5...@newsfe20.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>>>>First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To people who know better though, it's you that seems ridiculous in all
>>>of this.
>>
>>Really? Why is that? Because I don't agree with you?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did I say
>>>>anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post again, this time
>>>>without your blinders on.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>This is what plenty of people think and the biker world has coined the
>>>phrase "ride a bike, go to jail" based on that mentality.
>>>It may seem overstated to you, but there are plenty of people who think
>>>exactly the way Terry is describing.
>>
>>I agree that plenty of people think that way, but Terry
>>accused me of thinking this and saying it, which I never did.
>>
>>Craig
>
>
> You have continually said that "all" HA's are criminals.
Now you're just lying. If you're going to post accusations
like this you have a responsibility to back it up. I'll wait
for you to either post the proof or admit you were lying.
Sorta like the Salem witch hunts, huh?
Craig
Craig
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:41:28 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>
>>>Did you really think anyone in Winnipeg missed this all over the news
>>>and papers and needed you to tell us about it
>>>Awfully condescending and judgmental for a christian aren't you?
>>>
>>>So Greg, did you see this site yet?
>>>http://realdealnews.com/
>>>I know it will drive you absolutely nuts to see the boys having so much
>>>fun.
>>>It sure looks like more fun than Mom & Dad's basement huh?
>>>
>>
>>I guess. If hanging out with low-life criminals is your idea
>>of fun.
>>
>>Craig
>
>
> If you are not painting everyone with the same brush please explain
> this statement of yours, seems rather self explanatory.
Simple. Bob was espousing the fun of hanging with the HAs. I
was simply stating that hanging out with HAs is hanging out
with criminals.
>
> In fact tonight at the St. George there is a get together for a dear
> friend that passed away last year, and even though there were be lots
> of members there, he was neither one nor did he endorse the club but
> he had friends.
Glad to hear he had friends. That some of them were HAs is
irrelevant.
Craig
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:22:08 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:27:46 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Not all are criminals......
>>>>
>>>>But it's a criminal organization and anyone joining it knows
>>>>that. IMHO, that makes them guilty by association.
>>>>
>>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>With your reasoning anyone with gay friends must be gay, anyone who
>>>rides a motorcycle is guilty because they ride one or know an HA. Your
>>>red necked attitude to a situations seems to be, guilty until proven
>>>innocent.
>>>
>>>You would have fit in well with the Salem witch hunts.
>>
>>First, the gay analogy is ridiculous, and you know it.
>>
>>Second, did I say anyone who rides a bike is guilty? No. Did
>>I say anyone who knows an HA is guilty? No. Read my post
>>again, this time without your blinders on.
>
>
> Actually you did, as soon as you said "guilt by association" you
> painted everyone with the same brush. With that statement you suggest
> that anyone who knows or associates with the HA's should expect to be
> considered part of a criminal organization.
Once again, you choose to either ignore what I posted or not
comprehend it. The quote is right above, Terry. Use your
scroll bar and tell me where I said anyone who knows or
associates with HAs should be considered part of a criminal
organization. I was referring to anyone who *JOINS* the HAs.
Hey, but don't let what I actually wrote stand in the way of
your criticism.
>
> So does that mean Harley Davidson Winnipeg is a criminal organization,
> they supply parts and bikes to the HA's.
Man, you are all over the place with this. Please read what
I posted and respond to that, rather than putting words in
my mouth.
>
>
>>Third, do you even know what a redneck is? If you did, you
>>would know it has nothing to do with this situation. Please
>>stick to rational discussion, without the sensational
>>name-calling.
>>
>>Third, Salem witch hunts? LOL.
>>
>>Craig
>>
>
> Just for you Craig, you fit in well:
>
> http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SALEM.HTM
Wow! You can post a link. Doesn't matter that it has nothing
to do with the discussion, but is just an attempt by you to
obfuscate things.
ken
>
> So does that mean Harley Davidson Winnipeg is a criminal organization,
> they supply parts and bikes to the HA's.
well, official H-D dealers are criminal in their sales practices,
but for different reasons than 'association' :) :)
-biker, must be a gay criminal too by logic found here
(oh wait, further application of the so called logic would have
gay automatically be criminal. so gay criminal is redundant.
well, at least i'm not a clergyman, *that* would be sick behavior.)
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BigScaryBob
origins poster of this thread.
He has continuously said some pretty nasty things in past conversations
on this particular subject, I too mistook you for him in this
conversation.
Try and forgive us this mistake. It was hardly a lie, but rather an
honest mistake.
Maybe search some of Greg's other posts on this subject and see for
yourself the kinds of things he has said regarding this stuff.
"Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:WuSJf.19636$xv1....@fe14.lga...
BigScaryBob
spoke of earlier please?
"Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1140314631.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Craig
> I think it should be obvious Craig that you were mistaken for Greg the
> origins poster of this thread.
Well, seeing as I was replying to Terry's post I'll wait for
him to acknowledge this and reply.
> He has continuously said some pretty nasty things in past conversations
> on this particular subject, I too mistook you for him in this
> conversation.
> Try and forgive us this mistake. It was hardly a lie, but rather an
> honest mistake.
From parts of your post I had a pretty good idea you had me
confused with Carr. It wasn't at all obvious from Terry'
post. I have already posted my appreciation for your
apology. Let's see if Terry does the same.
> Maybe search some of Greg's other posts on this subject and see for
> yourself the kinds of things he has said regarding this stuff.
I have read some of his posts, most recently the one about
HAs and homosexuality. He appears to be a bit of a
troll/netloon.
>
>
> "Craig" <zipp...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:WuSJf.19636$xv1....@fe14.lga...
>
>>Now you're just lying. If you're going to post accusations like this
>>you have a responsibility to back it up. I'll wait for you to either
>>post the proof or admit you were lying.
>>
>>Sorta like the Salem witch hunts, huh?
>>
>>Craig
>>
>
>
>
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
Are you suggesting you never said that the "HA's" are a criminal
organization and that anyone joining them can only be a criminal or
have criminal intent.....now really, who is the liar here.
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:41:28 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>>
>>>>Did you really think anyone in Winnipeg missed this all over the news
>>>>and papers and needed you to tell us about it
>>>>Awfully condescending and judgmental for a christian aren't you?
>>>>
>>>>So Greg, did you see this site yet?
>>>>http://realdealnews.com/
>>>>I know it will drive you absolutely nuts to see the boys having so much
>>>>fun.
>>>>It sure looks like more fun than Mom & Dad's basement huh?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I guess. If hanging out with low-life criminals is your idea
>>>of fun.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>
>>
>> If you are not painting everyone with the same brush please explain
>> this statement of yours, seems rather self explanatory.
>
>Simple. Bob was espousing the fun of hanging with the HAs. I
>was simply stating that hanging out with HAs is hanging out
>with criminals.
You have me confused now, you said in an earlier post that I just
read:
>Now you're just lying. If you're going to post accusations
>like this you have a responsibility to back it up. I'll wait
>for you to either post the proof or admit you were lying.
>
>Sorta like the Salem witch hunts, huh?
>
>Craig
Now did you not just call all HA's criminals, lets reread that
statement again just to make sure:
>>Simple. Bob was espousing the fun of hanging with the HAs. I
>>was simply stating that hanging out with HAs is hanging out
>>with criminals.
Yuppiers, you just said that hanging our with HAs is hanging out with
criminals inferring that all HA's are criminals.....
fucking liar
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>>
>> So does that mean Harley Davidson Winnipeg is a criminal organization,
>> they supply parts and bikes to the HA's.
>
>well, official H-D dealers are criminal in their sales practices,
> but for different reasons than 'association' :) :)
lolololol, I can't argue with that
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
>BigScaryBob wrote:
>> I think it should be obvious Craig that you were mistaken for Greg the
>> origins poster of this thread.
>
>Well, seeing as I was replying to Terry's post I'll wait for
>him to acknowledge this and reply.
You can wait along time, here is your quote once again suggesting ALL
HA's are criminals:
>>>Simple. Bob was espousing the fun of hanging with the HAs. I
>>>was simply stating that hanging out with HAs is hanging out
>>>with criminals.
Craig
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:17:18 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BigScaryBob wrote:
>>
>>>I think it should be obvious Craig that you were mistaken for Greg the
>>>origins poster of this thread.
>>
>>Well, seeing as I was replying to Terry's post I'll wait for
>>him to acknowledge this and reply.
>
>
> You can wait along time, here is your quote once again suggesting ALL
> HA's are criminals:
>
>
>>>>Simple. Bob was espousing the fun of hanging with the HAs. I
>>>>was simply stating that hanging out with HAs is hanging out
>>>>with criminals.
Terry, this post says NOTHING of the sort, and you know it.
One post "suggesting ALL HAs are criminals" (your words) is
nowhere near the same as "You have continually said that
"all" HA's are criminals" (again, your words-see below).
Besides, what I said was "hanging out with HAs is hanging
out with criminals". How you interpreted that to fit your
own bias is beyond me.
And here are the words from the original post:
------------------------------------------------------------
Terry N. Johns wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:00:56 -0600, Craig
<zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>> I agree that plenty of people think that way, but Terry
accused me of thinking this and saying it, which I never did.
>>
>> Craig
>
>
>
> You have continually said that "all" HA's are criminals.
Now you're just lying. If you're going to post accusations
like this you have a responsibility to back it up. I'll wait
for you to either post the proof or admit you were lying.
Sorta like the Salem witch hunts, huh?
Craig
--------------------------------------------------------------
You accused me of continually (your word, not mine) saying
all HAs are criminals. I asked you to prove it or apologize.
You did neither. Look, all you had to do was admit you mixed
me up with Carr, but instead, you try to twist my words so
that you do not have to admit it. That makes you a liar and
a fraud.
Craig
Craig
>
> Are you suggesting you never said that the "HA's" are a criminal
> organization and that anyone joining them can only be a criminal or
> have criminal intent.....now really, who is the liar here.
I did say that the HAs are a criminal organization. I
*NEVER* said the second part of your accusation. Besides,
you're trying to hide from your own words. I called you a
liar for saying: "You have continually said that "all" HA's
are criminals."
Stop avoiding the question. Prove I said that or apologize
for lying.
Craig
Craig
You obviously have reading comprehension problems. I wrote
something and you are taking it upon yourself to state that
I was "inferring" that all HAs are criminals. I never said
that. In fact, in other posts I have said that some HAs
probably do join without intending to be involved in
criminal activity.
And don't forget *your* post stating that I have
"continually said that "all" HA's are criminals". You are
hiding from it because you know it to be a lie and admitting
that scares you.
>
> fucking liar
This statement says more about you than me.
Craig
larry dodds
they are. hell, with your quotes you are saying they are ALL ANGELS ha get
a life.
what happens when someone tries to leave the club?? how long do they live??
what hole do they have to live in to stay alive??
"BigScaryBob" <bigsc...@nospamnorthendtattoo.com> wrote in message
news:jmSJf.4247$7y7....@fe16.lga...
larry dodds
they are. hell, with your quotes you are saying they are ALL ANGELS ha get
a life.
what happens when someone tries to leave the club?? how long do they live??
what hole do they have to live in to stay alive??
larry
"BigScaryBob" <bigsc...@nospamnorthendtattoo.com> wrote in message
news:jmSJf.4247$7y7....@fe16.lga...
larry dodds
they are. hell, with your quotes you are saying they are ALL ANGELS ha get
a life.
what happens when someone tries to leave the club?? how long do they live??
what hole do they have to live in to stay alive??
larry
"BigScaryBob" <bigsc...@nospamnorthendtattoo.com> wrote in message
news:jmSJf.4247$7y7....@fe16.lga...
BigScaryBob
some were bad. I said the same thing about cops too. I never claimed
"plenty of documented evidence for any of my claims. I merely said I
have personal experience that refutes the claims he's making.
Greg is the guy saying there is documented evidence of rampant
homosexuality in the club, I want to see any of it. So it would
definitely be up to him to prove it with all this evidence.
I am not gonna worry too much about it though. It was just another one
of the trolls that Greg likes to throw out there and then ignore replies
the to it.
"larry dodds" <larry...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:8C8Kf.47274$sa3.25158@pd7tw1no...
Terry N. Johns
wrote:
Craig I think you throw that word out a little to much. To me someone
is lying when they purposely twist the truth or purposely leave out
important facts in a debate. I have done neither, that is not to say
that I haven;t been mistaken or that I haven't misinterpreted some of
your statements but for clarity sake lets see what you said and how I
took it.
And please correct me if I am wrong, did you not say in several posts
that the HA's is a criminal organization? Did you not say that someone
joining the HA's would then be guilty by association?
I am paraphrasing so please correct the statements if needed or as you
see fit.
Now with those two statements alone never mind all the other
statements you have made can one not safely assume certain things.
In the statement about "guilty by association" there was no caveat
attached suggesting only certain individuals would be guilty or
stating what they would be guilty of, considering that you said the
HA's us a criminal organization, I believe you were associating all HA
members as criminals.
Going along that same line and with no caveat saying otherwise
"association" means "anyone" so then we can safely assume friends,
businesses, etc maybe considered criminals.
I have written this so that you can either add a caveat or withdraw
your statements.
I agree the HA's itself is a criminal organization but I certainly
don't agree all associates are criminals, something you maintain.
Craig
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:35:04 -0600, Craig <zipp...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Terry N. Johns wrote:
>>
>>>Are you suggesting you never said that the "HA's" are a criminal
>>>organization and that anyone joining them can only be a criminal or
>>>have criminal intent.....now really, who is the liar here.
>>
>>I did say that the HAs are a criminal organization. I
>>*NEVER* said the second part of your accusation. Besides,
>>you're trying to hide from your own words. I called you a
>>liar for saying: "You have continually said that "all" HA's
>>are criminals."
>>
>>Stop avoiding the question. Prove I said that or apologize
>>for lying.
>>
>>Craig
>
>
> Craig I think you throw that word out a little to much. To me someone
> is lying when they purposely twist the truth or purposely leave out
> important facts in a debate. I have done neither, that is not to say
> that I haven;t been mistaken or that I haven't misinterpreted some of
> your statements but for clarity sake lets see what you said and how I
> took it.
I was looking at lying in a little more simplistic manner:
Posting something that is not true, which I felt you had done.
> And please correct me if I am wrong, did you not say in several posts
> that the HA's is a criminal organization? Did you not say that someone
> joining the HA's would then be guilty by association?
I did say the are a criminal organization, and I used the
phrase "guilty by association" once, to describe someone who
joins the HAs knowing that.
> I am paraphrasing so please correct the statements if needed or as you
> see fit.
>
> Now with those two statements alone never mind all the other
> statements you have made can one not safely assume certain things.
>
> In the statement about "guilty by association" there was no caveat
> attached suggesting only certain individuals would be guilty or
> stating what they would be guilty of, considering that you said the
> HA's us a criminal organization, I believe you were associating all HA
> members as criminals.
No, I very clearly used the "guilt by association" only
once, and that was toward someone who *joins* the HAs.
> Going along that same line and with no caveat saying otherwise
> "association" means "anyone" so then we can safely assume friends,
> businesses, etc maybe considered criminals.
This assumption is where the error was made. I never
referred to friends or business associates or relatives or
neighbours, etc. Only those who joined the HAs.
> I have written this so that you can either add a caveat or withdraw
> your statements.
I believe I have now adequately explained my posts on this
matter.
>
> I agree the HA's itself is a criminal organization but I certainly
> don't agree all associates are criminals, something you maintain.
In one of my earlier posts I did post that I am not saying
that every HA member has been convicted of, or even
committed, a crime. I still believe that. I just couldn't
understand why someone would join the organization, knowing
its background, and then be surprised if they were caught in
a police raid or something.
I guess the best example I can think of is someone with no
criminal record or intent joining up, attending an event at
a clubhouse or residence, enjoying the beer and the women
and the camaraderie and then being surprised when the police
raid the place and discover weapons or drugs.
Greg Carr
was simply stating that hanging out with HAs is hanging out
with criminals. "
I agree with Craig. There are lots of motorcycle enthusiasts without
links to criminal gangs. Lots of bikers do it solo. No need to hang
around with the homosexuals, rapists, kiddie diddlers and meth dealers
of HA.
Greg Carr
HA homosexuality you
spoke of earlier please? "
Have you ever seen an 81 website that mentioned homosexual members? The
answer is no. Yves "Apache" Trudeau is a famous HA homosexual and butt
reamer of young boys.
http://www.geocities.com/wiseguywally/YvesTrudeau.html documents the
first part of his criminal history.
"Apache Trudeau scores the murderer, pedophile and informant trifecta
Yves "Apache" Trudeau, 58, apparently unsatisfied with the mere title
of being the most prolific hit man in Canadian history with 43 notches
in his belt, added "homosexual pedophile" to his résumé after
repeatedly having sex with a teenage boy unaware of his villainous
past. Trudeau had served a mere seven years in prison from 1986 to
1993, a result of having turned informant. He has been on welfare since
2002, around the time he took to being anally serviced by the lad.
Trudeau pled mercy to the court, noting that fellow inmates aren't
crazy about either informants or pedophiles, of which he is now
officially both, as well as a mass murderer, of course. He was given
four years."
http://whokilledtheresa.blogspot.com/2004/12/oh-yeah-oh-yeah-oh-yeah.html
This typical peice of Hell's Angel garbage was driving a school bus of
all things!
Danny Kane was another HA homosexual lowlife.
Big Vinnie from the NYC chapter made videos of himself having sex with
children. "When In Doubt Knock Them Out" with a roofie.
Lots of homosexuals in the red and white support crews and among the
patch wearers. On the bright side they are totally unreliable and made
great police informants.
Greg Carr
HAs and homosexuality. He appears to be a bit of a
troll/netloon. "
They have called me that and worse in Surrey.
Greg Carr
home PC.
BigScaryBob wrote: "It was just another one
of the trolls that Greg likes to throw out there and then ignore
replies
the to it."
I don't troll and I read all replies except from those ppl I have kf'd.
whocares
wrote:
>OK I'll apologize for not replying faster. I'm not currently using my
>home PC.
We know.......you're on assistance.
>
>BigScaryBob wrote: "It was just another one
>of the trolls that Greg likes to throw out there and then ignore
>replies
>the to it."
>
>I don't troll and I read all replies except from those ppl I have kf'd.
How's them violent nightmares coming, Greg??
gutz
BigScaryBob
There was nothing common about these three.
"Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1140479409.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Greg Carr
stolen auto parts.
The insomnia is still an occassional problem. The violent nighmares and
horrors have greatly subsided and now the dreams are merely bad
although I have had some good dreams occur. Some of the best sleep in
three years. Had a strange one the other night where a guy I used to
know was throwing yellow armchairs at me. I actually felt it and woke
up. In real life the guy throwing the chairs used to try and hang with
the Halifax chapter. They beat him up and sent him down the road after
he passed out and knocked over their bikes at a rally.
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
"C> The insomnia is still an occassional problem. The violent nighmares and
"C> horrors have greatly subsided and now the dreams are merely bad
"C> although I have had some good dreams occur. Some of the best sleep in
"C> three years. Had a strange one the other night where a guy I used to
"C> know was throwing yellow armchairs at me. I actually felt it and woke
"C> up. In real life the guy throwing the chairs used to try and hang with
"C> the Halifax chapter. They beat him up and sent him down the road after
"C> he passed out and knocked over their bikes at a rally.
Crack'll do that, I've heard. . .
Just say no to drugs & HAMC members seeking blowjobs, Greg, you'll be a happier
person for it!
--
Because I care,
|<+]::-( ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
(aka Reverend George A. Pope)
(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-
note new preferred reply email: Cyberpope67(at)yahoo(dot)com
PS This post specially encoded for verification purposes
--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.
Greg Carr
the homosexual ABOMINATION who should be put to death legally after the
law is changed.
gap...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
> "Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> "C> The insomnia is still an occassional problem. The violent nighmares and
> "C> horrors have greatly subsided and now the dreams are merely bad
> "C> although I have had some good dreams occur. Some of the best sleep in
> "C> three years. Had a strange one the other night where a guy I used to
> "C> know was throwing yellow armchairs at me. I actually felt it and woke
> "C> up. In real life the guy throwing the chairs used to try and hang with
> "C> the Halifax chapter. They beat him up and sent him down the road after
> "C> he passed out and knocked over their bikes at a rally.
>
> Crack'll do that, I've heard. . .
>
> Just say no to drugs & HAMC members seeking blowjobs, Greg, you'll be a happier
> person for it!
>
>
>
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
"C> Never was into crack and I quit pot and smokes and beer years ago. Your
"C> the homosexual ABOMINATION who should be put to death legally after the
"C> law is changed.
Keep your sick projecting fantasies to yourself!
I love pussy WAYYY too much and it loves me back as much or more, to ever
become a homo!
That's just nasty gross! For those who like it, I don't understand it, but
it's none of my business!
Feel free to continue doing what YOU do, just leave me out of it!
--