Coin thief hopes to stay in the military
Ricochet
Coin thief hopes to continue military career
Canadian Press
Tuesday, April 30, 2002
WINNIPEG -- A former security guard at the Royal Canadian Mint who stole
rare coins is now hoping a conditional sentence will not affect his military
career.
Andrew Farrow, who is now a second lieutenant in the Canadian Armed Forces
stationed in New Brunswick, pleaded guilty last week to the unusual charge
of conveying instruments of coin from the mint in Winnipeg.
Items taken included copper dimes, flawed toonies and test nickels.
Monday, Judge Glenn Joyal handed him a nine-month conditional sentence and a
$500-fine.
Farrow must also complete 75 hours of community service and re-pay the mint
2,700.
Defence lawyer Jeff Gindin says since stealing the money, Farrow has
completed most of his master's degree in criminal justice and risen in the
military ranks."
Wait a minute. Didn't we just kick one guy out for doing something that was
NOT illegal but called his personal integrity/honesty into question but this
individual has done something illegal that also calls into question his
honesty, but he should be retained?????? Both are junior officers. One's
action were immoral not illegal, the other's were illegal. So, should the
coin stealer remain in the CF? I think not. After all, he is a dishonest
OFFICER......
Let's now conisder the medic/sailor/rad op etc who is prosecuted for
shoplifting from Walmart compared to the Sup Tech or RMS clerk who is
prosecuted for the same offense of shoplifting. All details would be the
same except their MOCs. Any difference in the application of who should be
retained or released? And why?
dcowie
lieutenant now - I just don't see this speedy rise in rank as an important
defence in this case. I wonder if he returned the coins. In any event if he
is retained he'll have to work twice as hard to earn the respect of his
subordinates.
--
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me
"Ricochet" <ricoc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MWBz8.13542$5e6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
hosejockey982
"dcowie" <dco...@attcanada.ca> wrote in message
news:K_Rz8.5391$Z6.5...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
Ricochet
law? If so, does it depend on the offense, the amount that was stolen etc?
"dcowie" <dco...@attcanada.ca> wrote in message
news:K_Rz8.5391$Z6.5...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
Carter Lee
>
> But do you think he should be retained? Is he permitted a brush with the
> law? If so, does it depend on the offense, the amount that was stolen etc?
That's a very difficult question to answer. One has to, among other
things, consider all of the circumstances surrounding the commission of
the offence, which AFAIK occurred before he became an officer in the CF,
his performance and behaviour since he became a member of the CF and any
attempt he may have made at restitution.
Since most of us don't have access to all of those details we are not
equipped to fairly answer that question.
Carter
sten_sterling
"Carter Lee" <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3CD1439C...@ns.sympatico.ca...
Get real, everyone, he committed a criminal act when placed in a position of
trust when he was a civvy. he then LIED (I assume since the likelihood of
him revealing his criminal behaviour during the interview/ boards process is
almost nil) to get into the military and now he gets nabbed. His lofty rise
to 2Lt might be too dizzying for his detractors and they might be reticent
to condemn this powerful, powerful man, but call a spade a spade, we have
enough officers in the CF that we need not employ thieves and those galling
enough to abuse those trusts placed on them. Give this BOY the boot. I don't
care what amends he has attempted to make, or his performance since joining
the CF. Who's to say where his lies and thievery has ended, maybe batteries
and glow sticks are on today's hit-list and perhaps tomorrow, crates of
ammunition or ???? This boy does not deserve a benefit of the doubt.
The Madscanner
committed before an individual's entry into the military, it would be unfair
automatically to judge that same individual by his or her "new" standards.
That is not to say that an individual, known to have committed an offence
which might call in to question integrity, might not have to try a whole
hell of a lot harder to gain others confidence and respect.
Paul
"Carter Lee" <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> That's a very difficult question to answer. One has to, among other
> things, consider all of the circumstances surrounding the commission of
> the offence, which AFAIK occurred before he became an officer in the CF,
> his performance and behaviour since he became a member of the CF and any
> attempt he may have made at restitution.
>
> Carter
Nomad
news:aasdap$3ed$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
: For what it's worth ($0.02, or less), I feel that, if an offence has been
: committed before an individual's entry into the military, it would be
unfair
: automatically to judge that same individual by his or her "new" standards.
:
: That is not to say that an individual, known to have committed an offence
: which might call in to question integrity, might not have to try a whole
: hell of a lot harder to gain others confidence and respect.
Bottom line...is THIS the type of person we want as an Officer (from the
onset, his/her integrity is shot)? Hell, it's not the type of person we
want as an NCM!
--
Nomad
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/2002
newt
I have to say that just a few short 25 years ago I knew people who were given
the opportunity to serve with the military verse go to jail for an offence. It
has historical precedent lets not be too hasty.
Newt
Mark & Tammy
> > onset, his/her integrity is shot)? Hell, it's not the type of person we
> > want as an NCM!
> >
> > --
> > Nomad
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/2002
>
> I have to say that just a few short 25 years ago I knew people who were
given
> the opportunity to serve with the military verse go to jail for an
offence. It
> has historical precedent lets not be too hasty.
> Newt
>
Newt,
I worked with guys in the Regt around 1987 who had the join or jail option
and they turned out to be damned good soldiers. How do you define it? Is a
crime a crime no matter what? or are there lesser levels of crime, or an
incident that happened out of necessity.
And my question is did the individual delcare this during his selection
interview where it could have been verified and he could have explained the
circumstances? I highly doubt it. Seeing as how he is just being charged
for it now. It doesnt matter what we all think here anyway. His
reputations will be shot and we all know how everyone regards a thief and he
will be pre-judged the rest of his career. There are some reputations that
just never leave you.
Mark
sten_sterling
"newt" <cold...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3CD28273...@sympatico.ca...
There is no historical precedent for Officers to be selected or enrolled
this way. The issue here is trust and the abuse of that trust. His coin
thievery was not an isolated incident of opportunistic pilfering. Over the
course of his tenure he methodically chose low-security targets, determined
routes of escape and he acted on his plans to steal from a Canadian Mint
whilst employed to avert that very thing. We are not talking about a
seventeen year old who gets fingered for shoplifting, this was a federal
employee stealing from one of the most secure buildings in the country. Why
does he need the benefit of the doubt? For him to claim, "I won't do it
again. . . " holds no weight with me, he declared that he would not steal
from the Mint when he was hired there, he did it, he must have claimed
during the interview process to enter the CF that he wasn't a thief and that
he was of good character, he was a thief, and is of poor character. This
person is a blight on the military. I find it unlikely that his military
career thus far has so profoundly impacted the CF that we can't do without
him.
PS- I'd have the MPs searching his "personal" kit before he was released as
well, there IS "precedent" for this weasel to steal from work.
sten_sterling
"Mark & Tammy" <tam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:UyxA8.4438$B75.49...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Newt,
> I worked with guys in the Regt around 1987 who had the join or jail option
> and they turned out to be damned good soldiers. How do you define it? Is
a
> crime a crime no matter what? or are there lesser levels of crime, or an
> incident that happened out of necessity.
>
> And my question is did the individual delcare this during his selection
> interview where it could have been verified and he could have explained
the
> circumstances? I highly doubt it. Seeing as how he is just being charged
> for it now. It doesnt matter what we all think here anyway. His
> reputations will be shot and we all know how everyone regards a thief and
he
> will be pre-judged the rest of his career. There are some reputations
that
> just never leave you.
>
> Mark
A crime is not a crime, it's not black and white, very little is. This
individual has displayed a gross abuse of trust and he wants a career where
that portion of his character can never be in doubt, it shouldn't matter if
it was a crime or not, the issue is TRUST, not criminal behaviour. He didn't
go on a jaywalking spree, he, as a federal employee, stole from a Canadian
Mint when he was hired to keep people from doing that very thing.
As an officer in the CF, he is entrusted with the lives, welfare and dignity
of those soldiers under his command, which of those are you willing to
sacrifice in order to give this sticky-fingered ring-knocker the benefit of
the doubt?
Paul Morgan
<charles_canad...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>A crime is not a crime, it's not black and white, very little is. This
>individual has displayed a gross abuse of trust and he wants a career where
>that portion of his character can never be in doubt, it shouldn't matter if
>it was a crime or not, the issue is TRUST, not criminal behaviour. He didn't
>go on a jaywalking spree, he, as a federal employee, stole from a Canadian
>Mint when he was hired to keep people from doing that very thing.
>
>As an officer in the CF, he is entrusted with the lives, welfare and dignity
>of those soldiers under his command, which of those are you willing to
>sacrifice in order to give this sticky-fingered ring-knocker the benefit of
>the doubt?
>
Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
sten_sterling
"Paul Morgan" <he...@home.net> wrote in message
news:7lb5duo8tmhvr6e09...@4ax.com...
> Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
Of those, who has been employed solely to guard that gun-tape, from those
who would steal it, and of those, who has STILL stolen almost $3000 worth of
it?
wake up, Paul.
Gord Beaman
>>
>>As an officer in the CF, he is entrusted with the lives, welfare and dignity
>>of those soldiers under his command, which of those are you willing to
>>sacrifice in order to give this sticky-fingered ring-knocker the benefit of
>>the doubt?
>>
>
>Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
Not at all in the same league Paul. One is theft, the other is
scrounge. While some might argue the point, most military people
know the difference.
--
Gord Beaman
PEI, Canada
"Old age is no place for sissies" -Bette Davis.
Paul Morgan
>Paul Morgan <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>As an officer in the CF, he is entrusted with the lives, welfare and dignity
>>>of those soldiers under his command, which of those are you willing to
>>>sacrifice in order to give this sticky-fingered ring-knocker the benefit of
>>>the doubt?
>>>
>>
>>Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
>
>Not at all in the same league Paul. One is theft, the other is
>scrounge. While some might argue the point, most military people
>know the difference.
Taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft.
Do the police know the difference? I haven't heard a lawyer argue that
point before, "my client is not guilty of theft, it was scrounge."
At what price valus does scrounge become theft?
Gord, your point is just stupid. Maybe you should think this through.
Andrew Chaplin
news:7lb5duo8tmhvr6e09...@4ax.com...
> Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
I don't.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out, and
change "home" to "rogers".)
Paul Morgan
<abch...@yourfinger.home.com> wrote:
>"Paul Morgan" <he...@home.net> wrote in message
>news:7lb5duo8tmhvr6e09...@4ax.com...
>
>> Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
>
>I don't.
Then go in peace. :)
Andrew Chaplin
Neill McKay
> Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
Not I.
Neill McKay
wary
>
What the heck is gun tape? Is this a tougher kind of duct tape?
Is there gun krazy glue too? I recently applied for the cf and
one of the things on the appilcation is a statement saying you
must be clear of all legal charges for at least six months.
There's also an eligibilty requirement that reads "you must: be
of good character" I know thats subjective but from what i've
heard there's already too many theives in the cf.
Gord Beaman
Oh, I don't think so (but then, I wouldn't would I?). Maybe I
needed the gun tape to hold the insulation onto my hot water tank
in my PMQ till the CE section got around to fixing it? Maybe I
needed it to hold the glass in a basement window till CE got
time? Maybe...well you get the picture I'm sure.
BTW Paul, have you ever EVER left work before five?...even by a
second?. No?, amazing indeed. Ever arrived at work even a second
late?. No?, amazing again. Ever started or ended coffee break
other than on time?. REALLY?...amazing!.
It's all in the degree Paul. What this guy did in the Mint is a
Crime, pure and simple and unworthy of a military man. Whether he
was associated with the commissioned ranks or not is immaterial.
What you did when you left work five minutes early is not a
Crime. If you're really having trouble seeing the difference here
then I'd suggest some mild low level counselling. Now please
don't get all snitty here, we're just having a discussion after
all.
Allen
"sten_sterling" <charles_canad...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:T_xA8.13699$xS2.9...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> SNIP>
> this "sticky-fingered ring-knocker" the benefit of
> the doubt?
>
>
used in a Canadian Military context. I don't think this individual was a RMC
grad.
Cheers,
Allen
Paul Morgan
>Paul Morgan <he...@home.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 03 May 2002 16:21:48 GMT, "Gord Beaman" <ve...@rac.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Paul Morgan <he...@home.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>As an officer in the CF, he is entrusted with the lives, welfare and dignity
>>>>>of those soldiers under his command, which of those are you willing to
>>>>>sacrifice in order to give this sticky-fingered ring-knocker the benefit of
>>>>>the doubt?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
>>>
>>>Not at all in the same league Paul. One is theft, the other is
>>>scrounge. While some might argue the point, most military people
>>>know the difference.
>>
>>Taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft.
>>Do the police know the difference? I haven't heard a lawyer argue that
>>point before, "my client is not guilty of theft, it was scrounge."
>>At what price valus does scrounge become theft?
>>Gord, your point is just stupid. Maybe you should think this through.
>
>Oh, I don't think so (but then, I wouldn't would I?). Maybe I
>needed the gun tape to hold the insulation onto my hot water tank
>in my PMQ till the CE section got around to fixing it? Maybe I
>needed it to hold the glass in a basement window till CE got
>time? Maybe...well you get the picture I'm sure.
Then go to Canadian Tire and buy it, I have to.
>
>BTW Paul, have you ever EVER left work before five?...even by a
>second?. No?, amazing indeed. Ever arrived at work even a second
>late?. No?, amazing again. Ever started or ended coffee break
>other than on time?. REALLY?...amazing!.
Christ Gord, let me post an answer before you answer your own question
for me!!!!
Presumed innocent? Not a concept that you can relate to I guess.
>
>It's all in the degree Paul. What this guy did in the Mint is a
>Crime, pure and simple and unworthy of a military man. Whether he
>was associated with the commissioned ranks or not is immaterial.
>What you did when you left work five minutes early is not a
>Crime. If you're really having trouble seeing the difference here
>then I'd suggest some mild low level counselling. Now please
>don't get all snitty here, we're just having a discussion after
>all.
>
Theft is theft. Because a roll of guntape is at someones house,
another has to be ordered and the whole system suffers. You can get
away with it, why can't I? How many small (or large) businesses allow
employees to take home office supplies, etc? Just because we work for
the government doesn't chane anything.
Theft under $500 has a lower degree of punishment that over $500, that
is the only difference of degree that I can find.
Maybe if you post your definition of theft (it doesn't cost much so it
doesn't count theory), that might help.
Let's see, not at my assigned place of duty when required is not a
crime. I will have to use that sometime. Can I mention your name?
As for the last couple of sentences, you are in no postion to
recommned councelling to anyone and I resent the fact that you would
even bring it up. As for being snitty, read your own post.
newt
I can honestly say I don't
Newt
newt
Wary, There is one thing that you will learn in your training and it is
Gun Tape,
how to describe it...hmm. It is a duct tape, a rather superior duct
tape, that has a multitude of uses. It is a non sexist item that is
equally feminine as it is masculine.
I will list just a few of the uses ans others can add to it.
Hair removal, on you arms , moustache, beard or eyebrows legs and
bikini area, scrotum. Almost as effective as gasoline fires and blue
angels. Caution Do not stretch long lenghts of gun tape in windy areas.
Lint remover on your uniform, bed, and bellybutton.
You can fix anything with it.
You do not have to know how to tie the basic knots just tape it.
Works well on one running shoe when curling to act as a slider.
Tape hands and feet together (hair remover too)
Keep noisy people quiet (hair remover too)
secure loose equipment to prevent noise.
No need for safety pins in your underwear that may stick you ...just
tape it
Allows you to wear your underwear longer, prior to putting underwear on
place a layer or two of tape in the crotch and when that layer gets
dirty peel it off and voila fresh drawers.
These are just a small sample of the multitude of things that are
capable when you are the proud owner of a roll of gun tape. after all
50,000 military personel can't be wrong .
Cheers
Newt
Richard Collins
First, let me state I don't have a roll of gun tape in my basement.
It seems to me there is a little difference between the two actions - though
both are "theft", I believe there is a distinction between taking something
you have a legitimate reason to possess (gun tape, for any of the
appropriate uses you may put it to) and something else which you have no
right to possess, such as in this case (I believe) coin blanks and
stampings.
The first case could be looked upon as "misuse" rather than "theft"
(stretching it a bit, maybe).
However, I agree with the majority opinion - we don't need officers who
cannot be trusted in even little things, let alone outright theft. However -
give the devil his due, and his day in court. Then decide what is
appropriate given the circumstances that surrounded the act.
Oh - BTW - I don't have a basement.
Richard Collins
"Andrew Chaplin" <abch...@yourfinger.home.com> wrote in message
news:537d2$c332...@parl5.parl.gc.ca...
> >
> > Then go in peace. :)
In Biblical times, a woman accused of adultery was taken from he house by a
mob to be stoned. As they moved through the street to the place where the
stoning was traditionally done, they encounterd Christ, who asked them what
they were doing. They told him, and you know his response: "Let he among you
who is without sin cast the first stone".
With that, the crowd looked at each other, and one by one, dropped their
stones and went about their business. Except for one middle aged woman who
was casually tossing a rather large stone into the air and catching it,
looking at the accused adulteress, and then at Christ. Finally, she turned
towards the woman and threw her stone, striking her in the temple, killing
her instantly.
With that, Chirst approached her, and said "Mother, some days you really
piss me off".
Nomad
: On Fri, 03 May 2002 15:26:43 GMT, "sten_sterling"
...and I always thought that was just green duct-tape!
Nomad
: "Paul Morgan" <he...@home.net> wrote in message
: news:7lb5duo8tmhvr6e09...@4ax.com...
:
: > Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
:
: I don't.
...then get one Andrew, and be like the rest of 'em. :-)
sten_sterling
"Allen" <deb...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:UPBA8.18581$5e6.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> My understanding is "ring knocker" normally refers to a graduate of RMC
when
> used in a Canadian Military context. I don't think this individual was a
RMC
> grad.
>
> Cheers,
> Allen
It was my understanding that the individual in question DID achieve his post
secondary degree through RMC. He also appears to be milking the system for
his graduate degree as well. I welcome corrections on this point.
Carter Lee
Me, I'm retired. :^) It's duct tape now, paid for at the local hardware
store.
Carter
Carter Lee
> However, I agree with the majority opinion - we don't need officers who
> cannot be trusted in even little things, let alone outright theft. However -
> give the devil his due, and his day in court. Then decide what is
> appropriate given the circumstances that surrounded the act.
>
> Oh - BTW - I don't have a basement.
So where do you keep your gun tape?
Carter
Andrew Chaplin
news:WCDA8.14690$xS2.9...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> ...then get one Andrew, and be like the rest of 'em. :-)
Like Carter, I have duct tape (the grey kind) because I was doing some
repairs to my dryer exhaust.
Ken
"Rings" are not normally awarded (or purchased) by PG's. (Me being one at this
time gives me a small measure of confidence as an authourative source). I got
my "ring" from Dalhousie and will get (In Shallah) my Masters from RMC. Guess
which ring I'll wear.......the undergrad one, as that is the one that
"defines" you.
Ken
>
>
Ken
>First, let me state I don't have a roll of gun tape in my basement.
I don't have a basement.
>The first case could be looked upon as "misuse" rather than "theft"
>(stretching it a bit, maybe).
Perhaps one uses the gun tape only to secure kit and webbing for bugout
purposes. Is it theft (or misuse) then, simply because someone has it at
home?
Anyone ever take their laptop home? A field message pad? A pen?
>Oh - BTW - I don't have a basement.
I should have read your whole post first.
Ken
>
>
Ken
>"Nomad" <noj...@mail.plse> wrote in message
>news:WCDA8.14690$xS2.9...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
>
>> ...then get one Andrew, and be like the rest of 'em. :-)
>
>Like Carter, I have duct tape (the grey kind) because I was doing some
>repairs to my dryer exhaust.
An Officer fixing something???
911 on your speed dial?
Ken
sten_sterling
"Ken" <kenn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uuIA8.15$Sc5....@news20.bellglobal.com...
> In article <dGDA8.14692$xS2.9...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>, "sten_sterling"
<charles_canad...@yahoo.co.uk>
post
> >secondary degree through RMC. He also appears to be milking the system
for
> >his graduate degree as well. I welcome corrections on this point.
>
> "Rings" are not normally awarded (or purchased) by PG's. (Me being one at
this
> time gives me a small measure of confidence as an authourative source). I
got
> my "ring" from Dalhousie and will get (In Shallah) my Masters from RMC.
Guess
> which ring I'll wear.......the undergrad one, as that is the one that
> "defines" you.
>
> Ken
Super. How does this address the assertion that 2Lt Farrow holds a degree
from RMC in addition to pursuing a second, Graduate, degree from the
Military College? Are you he? I assume not since you go by the name Ken, not
Andrew. Perhaps I misunderstand the intent of your post, which may have been
to merely add colour to the discussion without contributing in any
meaningful way?
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>>
>>BTW Paul, have you ever EVER left work before five?...even by a
>>second?. No?, amazing indeed. Ever arrived at work even a second
>>late?. No?, amazing again. Ever started or ended coffee break
>>other than on time?. REALLY?...amazing!.
>
>Christ Gord, let me post an answer before you answer your own question
>for me!!!!
>Presumed innocent? Not a concept that you can relate to I guess.
>
You really expect me to believe that you've NEVER been even a
second late to work?...nor left a second 'before the bell'?!?.,
well Paul, I really hate to say bullshit, but bullshit sir. And
furthermore when you did you STOLE from your employer. Hell,
let's really get stupid here, while on duty did you ever let your
mind wander from the task at hand?, even for one second?...you're
a thief then by you're own reckoning too.
Isn't this silly?...of course it is and so is it friggin' silly
to label a soldier who inadvertently takes home a gov't owned pen
as a thief. OR a roll of tape for God's sake. Mind you if he took
several or a case of it then he's a thief. But one has to have
some common sense to see the difference. One would have to assume
that being a member of Canada's Armed Forces that you indeed do
have common sense, so...?.
>>
>>It's all in the degree Paul. What this guy did in the Mint is a
>>Crime, pure and simple and unworthy of a military man. Whether he
>>was associated with the commissioned ranks or not is immaterial.
>>What you did when you left work five minutes early is not a
>>Crime. If you're really having trouble seeing the difference here
>>then I'd suggest some mild low level counselling. Now please
>>don't get all snitty here, we're just having a discussion after
>>all.
>>
>
>Theft is theft. Because a roll of guntape is at someones house,
>another has to be ordered and the whole system suffers. You can get
>away with it, why can't I? How many small (or large) businesses allow
>employees to take home office supplies, etc? Just because we work for
>the government doesn't chane anything.
>
>Theft under $500 has a lower degree of punishment that over $500, that
>is the only difference of degree that I can find.
>Maybe if you post your definition of theft (it doesn't cost much so it
>doesn't count theory), that might help.
Well for Christ's sake Paul...read what the hell you JUST
WROTE!!...
To whit:
Theft under $500 has a lower degree of punishment than over $500.
Good God, can't you extrapolate 'that' down to the price of a
friggin' pen or a roll of tape that the Gov't buys by the
million?...I really hate to be pointing out these obvious things
to a man of your station in life. <give your head a shake or two>
>Let's see, not at my assigned place of duty when required is not a
>crime. I will have to use that sometime. Can I mention your name?
>
Fill yer boots...keeping in mind that it's actually theft and,
therefore, by 'your' definition, a crime.
>As for the last couple of sentences, you are in no postion to
>recommned councelling to anyone and I resent the fact that you would
>even bring it up. As for being snitty, read your own post.
Paul, that 'resent the fact' of yours is exactly what I meant
about getting snitty. You perhaps need to work on your ability to
'take it' a little more, and perhaps not to see an insult in
every statement. Hell, that's precisely why I included that
line...gee...
Gord Beaman
>> >
>>
>> Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
>
>Me, I'm retired. :^) It's duct tape now, paid for at the local hardware
>store.
>
>Carter
Yeh...me too...BTW, did you know that Man needs only two basic
tools?...namely WD-40 to make things go and duct tape to make
them stop. :)
Ken
My.
Your original assertion about what is a "ring-knocker" was claimed to be
incorrect by another poster. I attempted to explain what the significance of
the ring was and from where they tend to come so that you might understand the
difference between was is commonly held to be a "ring-knocker" in the CF (I
assumed members of the CF had a clue in this regard..perhaps, in your case, I
assumed too much) and someone at RMC for PG.
My understanding is that his undergrad degree was not from RMC. As RMC (or any
other university for that matter does not grant a secondary degree (as you
stated) - that is what you attain when you graduate high school (perhaps I
mistook your question for a lack of a clue on your part - an assumption
again), I assumed you meant PG. My mistake.
At any rate, you seem quite ignorant, in both meanings of the word.
Ken
>
>
Ken
Whoops.
Apolgies to "sten_sterling". Having re-read his (her) posting, I misread it.
My last post was wrong ignorant to him (her) and should be ignored.
Duh!
Ken
Paul Morgan
>Paul Morgan <he...@home.net> wrote:
> --cut--
>>>
>>>BTW Paul, have you ever EVER left work before five?...even by a
>>>second?. No?, amazing indeed. Ever arrived at work even a second
>>>late?. No?, amazing again. Ever started or ended coffee break
>>>other than on time?. REALLY?...amazing!.
>>
>>Christ Gord, let me post an answer before you answer your own question
>>for me!!!!
>>Presumed innocent? Not a concept that you can relate to I guess.
>>
>
>You really expect me to believe that you've NEVER been even a
>second late to work?...nor left a second 'before the bell'?!?.,
>well Paul, I really hate to say bullshit, but bullshit sir. And
>furthermore when you did you STOLE from your employer. Hell,
>let's really get stupid here, while on duty did you ever let your
>mind wander from the task at hand?, even for one second?...you're
>a thief then by you're own reckoning too.
Ah but did I say that I never in my post? No I didn't.
I should get councelling. No, can't see how that could be taken the
wrong way.
sten_sterling
Done and done, excellent show of character.
Andrew Chaplin
> Done and done, excellent show of character.
Too bad the suck-in-and-reload buttons on these machines don't really
work.
Ken
And a poor show of comprehension. I repeat the "duh".
Ken
>
>
Ken
>sten_sterling wrote:
>
>> Done and done, excellent show of character.
>
>Too bad the suck-in-and-reload buttons on these machines don't really
>work.
Yeah. Do they ever work in real life though? :-)
Ken
Carter Lee
>
> Carter Lee <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >> >
> >>
> >> Who here doesn't have a roll of guntape in the basement?
> >
> >Me, I'm retired. :^) It's duct tape now, paid for at the local hardware
> >store.
> >
> >Carter
>
> Yeh...me too...BTW, did you know that Man needs only two basic
> tools?...namely WD-40 to make things go and duct tape to make
> them stop. :)
....and a hammer to fix almost anything. :^)
Carter
Richard Collins
"Carter Lee" <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3CD316CC...@ns.sympatico.ca...
> Richard Collins wrote:
> > Oh - BTW - I don't have a basement.
>
> So where do you keep your gun tape?
I keep my store-bought gun-type tape in my hall closet. :-)
As a nav in the Maritime world we went through a lot of masking tape - to
tape down the plotting chart at the TACNAV station, mainly. There was a
period when one had to return the paper core of the roll to get issued a new
roll.
Richard Collins
> In article <tkDA8.160148$kq1.3...@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Richard
Collins" <r..collins@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >First, let me state I don't have a roll of gun tape in my basement.
>
> I should have read your whole post first.
Heh heh.
I did think of the same arguments you mentioned, though - the laptop at
home, for example. The issue sunglasses you use when driving to the store,
....
Perhaps the use of the gun-tape on the dryer vent is "practice in the use of
gun-tape", admirable in that the member does it on his own time.
Richard Collins
"Gord Beaman" <ve...@rac.ca> wrote in message
news:3cd335f1....@198.164.200.20... -- and snip ---
Gee, Gord, aside from that, how was your day?
Carter Lee
>
> "Carter Lee" <cr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3CD316CC...@ns.sympatico.ca...
> > Richard Collins wrote:
>
> > > Oh - BTW - I don't have a basement.
> >
> > So where do you keep your gun tape?
>
> I keep my store-bought gun-type tape in my hall closet. :-)
I keep mine in the refrigerator.
>
> As a nav in the Maritime world we went through a lot of masking tape - to
> tape down the plotting chart at the TACNAV station, mainly. There was a
> period when one had to return the paper core of the roll to get issued a new
> roll.
Yes I remember those days. I also had to return my old flashlight
batteries to get new ones. At least I couldn't be accused of improper
disposal of environmentally unfriendly products.
Carter
Allen
> SNIP>
> "Rings" are not normally awarded (or purchased) by PG's. (Me being one at
this
> time gives me a small measure of confidence as an authourative source). I
got
> my "ring" from Dalhousie and will get (In Shallah) my Masters from RMC.
Guess
> which ring I'll wear.......the undergrad one, as that is the one that
> "defines" you.
>
> Ken
>
> >
> >
I give what's a PG? And call me thick but what's "in shallah"? And how is
the matter of Bachelors and Masters rings normally handled? A close friend
of mine gets there Masters from Queen's this fall and has already bought the
ring to act as a motivator to finish the required summer courses. I didn't
say they were wearing it just bought it in hopes of being able to. Running
out of fingers!!
Cheers,
Allen
Ken
>I give what's a PG? And call me thick but what's "in shallah"? And how is
>the matter of Bachelors and Masters rings normally handled? A close friend
>of mine gets there Masters from Queen's this fall and has already bought the
>ring to act as a motivator to finish the required summer courses. I didn't
>say they were wearing it just bought it in hopes of being able to. Running
>out of fingers!!
PG = Post-Grad
In Shallah = Arabic for "if God wills it"
As to rings, three is plenty. I feel like a punk rocker as it is.
Ken
>
>Cheers,
>Allen
>
>
Gord Beaman
T'was good...you think I was too hard on Paul?...just one of
those things that have a mind of their own and escalate forever I
guess. I p'bly shudda shut up long time ago I suppose. Ah well,
maybe I'll do better in the next life?... :)
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>As a nav in the Maritime world we went through a lot of masking tape - to
>tape down the plotting chart at the TACNAV station, mainly. There was a
>period when one had to return the paper core of the roll to get issued a new
>roll.
>
>
>
Were you aboard the Argus when they used the core from a paper
towel roll and much tape to repair the elevator torque
tube?...and was that the one that went into Lajes?.
Chris and/or Margie
C
Richard Collins
> "Richard Collins" <r..collins@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Were you aboard the Argus when they used the core from a paper
> towel roll and much tape to repair the elevator torque
> tube?...and was that the one that went into Lajes?.
No, not I.
Things were getting grim, I think....
Gord Beaman
Oh yes indeedy...I believe that was the one which had the stuck
sono, shed it's vanes which went (at multi RPM) up into the belly
severing the elevator torque tube. They just squeaked it into
Lajes by the skin of their skinny asses.
If I'm not mistaken it was from 415 Sqn at S'Side. We had just
returned from a patrol and happened to be in Sqn Ops when the
call came in. They declared their intentions as recovering at
Lajes when the Sqn OC ordered Hfx to order him home to SU. His
answer was a classic. To 415 Sqn Summerside, From Argus XXX:
"Radio propagations conditions deteriorating rapidly, our
recovery point remains LPLA. Will telecon via terrestrial means
at LPLA. Signed XXX.
The Sqn OC tried to rip him up later because everyone knew
precisely what had happened. that wording might not be exact but
there was some slight indication that he had gotten the
instructions anyway. You'll quite likely agree with me when I say
we had a dink for an OC. He was at the very least not a great
leader.
Richard Collins
> "Richard Collins" <r..collins@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> The Sqn OC tried to rip him up later because everyone knew
> precisely what had happened. that wording might not be exact but
> there was some slight indication that he had gotten the
> instructions anyway. You'll quite likely agree with me when I say
> we had a dink for an OC. He was at the very least not a great
> leader.
So it would appear. Obviously, the guy flying the a/c has a better idea of
how well that's working, and where he should haul his sorry ass. The OC was
likely more concerned about launching an MRP than about the immediate
situation.
Jay
Paul Morgan <he...@home.net> wrote in message
>
> I should get councelling. No, can't see how that could be taken the
> wrong way.
Paul, I have been fortunate (!?) enough to have been able to see this
thread develop all at once, right up to this point. I haven't quoted
any of the previous text because I think (I hope) both you and Gord
remember roughly what you have written.
That being said, I will remind you that Gord never said, or even
implied, that you were anything other than mistaken in your apparent
opinion that subj. coin thief and the squaddie who has a roll of gun
tape in his basement are somehow morally equivalent. Your response,
using the term "stupid" in ref to Gord's comments, indicates that
perhaps your courtesy circuits have been a bit fried by too much
exposure to ns.general. Gord's response to the "stupid" comment was,
perhaps understandibly, a bit angry (or at least a bit less polite
than his usual discourse), hence the "counselling" comment.
Now, as far as the topic goes: no, I don't have a roll of gun tape in
my basement (nor, as others have mentioned, do I have a basement. Not
that that particular item is at all relevant). However I have, at one
time or another, "acquired" rolls of gun tape, pens, notepads, extra
rifle slings, the odd C1 gas plug and piston rod and other such items
as squaddies are wont to acquire. Other than the fact that soldiers,
like crows, tend to collect "shinies," one should look to the reason
why: the soldier that collects items such as listed above does so for
his own professional reasons, not personal enrichment (other than the
odd knob that pawns his helmet or something, which is clearly an
offence).
To you that may be theft, and perhaps the system has been nice to you
in that all of the items you need have been there when you asked. I,
on the other hand (and probably most, if not all, of the "green jobs"
reading this) have known the lean days when a roll of gun tape was
worth it's weight in gold. Better "creatively acquired" by a squaddie
who shares it with his mates than sitting collecting dust on a
storeman's shelf because he has to "...keep his basic stock up."
Back to the gun tape thing: I have a roll in my office, which is no
guarantee that I won't use it for some non-military purpose. I did not
steal it, neither did I sign for it (though I did have to send a 728
back to indicate that I actually rec'd it).
Jay
Gord Beaman
Exactly, and It wouldn't surprise me if the words power trip
didn't play some small part.