Process instance diagram and collapsed subprocesses processes

[Cristian Cerb]

Guys,

For me, this is a critical thing and it may be a deal breaker if I can't find a way to make it work the way I need. 

I need to display some process instance diagram in a web app. Considering that process diagrams may be quite big, modelers have the (recommended) option of resorting to pushing some process logic into sub-processes. Such a process has to quickly make sense for anyone looking at it the first time. If the process has lots of expanded sub-processes and its size is large, that won't work very well, it will make the diagram look like a forest and reader might miss the forest for the trees. It is somewhat similar to having monolitic code in programming, without any modularity and other abstractions. A sub-process is (as Bruce Silver put it) at the same time, an activity, a step in a parent process and a process, all these at the same time. But for someone looking at the main process (high level) they would see it as a step and that's it from that top-level perspective. Such a main process shouldn't have too many activities (sub-processes included and counted as one activity) if we want the process to be easy to follow and easy to display, as well. Easy to follow also means easy to communicate along it and communication (in business terms) between business and IT is the whole point of BPM. As an average, many authors suggest at most 7-9 activities, so the idea is too much is too much. When more activities than a given threshold are present, that might be a hint that re-factoring might be appropriate. Where am I going with this? It's coming right now. I noticed all samples shown by Camunda demos, webinars and samples in the doc are not really using collapsed sub-processes. They all use expanded ones and quite simple, usually. I have cases where this is not true. I have used the Camunda modeler to create some process diagrams and whenever I tried to use collapsed sub-processes, I had a hard time attaching their definition. Of course, using expanded sub-processes worked, as most examples show, but those are so simple processes and many real-world businesses are way more complex than just that. I keep being told to use Signavio editor or www.bpmn.io etc. Is there a detailed demo or documentation of how does this work? I took a look at bpmn.io and it seems to be work in progress, still. But I need this feature now, not somewhere in the future, when bpmn.io grows mature. I had some interaction on the Camdunda blog about this, but I don't know how far did modeler progress, if at all (http://blog.camunda.org/2013/12/camunda-Modeler-2-3-0-released.html). Because sub-process is the construct that allows for composition and it represents the main instrument for tacking complexity, I consider it absolutely critical in modeling. 

Thank you,

Cristian

[Roman Smirnov]

Hi Cristian,

I am not sure whether I understand your problem. What do you need? Do you need an ability to collapse sub-processes?

Cheers,

Roman

[Cristian Cerb]

I need to be able to change properties of subprocess items from modeler without manually changing the XML myself. How do I do that for a collapsed subprocess? If I expand it, is gets messed up, so I need to go to Signavio, do it there, export again etc. But Camunda specific properties are best and intimately handled from a Camunda modeler, so it would be nice to be able to do it in Camunda's own modeler.

[Cristian Cerb]

*tackling