Raging Cyclist councillor ROSENSTIEL?

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Paul

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Aug 13, 2007, 4:49:53 PM8/13/07
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I could not believe my eyes ..........

So here is a video of what i saw .......
after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
the top of his voice

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB


Daveyboy

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Aug 13, 2007, 5:27:11 PM8/13/07
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Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear

our local, genial councilor

I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he
was the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature

camjay

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Aug 13, 2007, 6:12:33 PM8/13/07
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The poor guy does seem a bit nonplussed.

camjay

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Aug 13, 2007, 6:17:16 PM8/13/07
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On 13 Aug, 22:27, Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:

I wouldn't blame him for getting angry per se, it just seems he is
taking it out on the wrong guy. As a city councillor one would have
thought that he would be in better postion than most of us to ensure
the *appropriate* action is taken against illegal parking outside that
pub.


Ian Jackson

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Aug 13, 2007, 8:30:08 PM8/13/07
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In article <Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>,

Paul <Pa...@mail.com> wrote:
>I could not believe my eyes ..........

Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a positive
identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that I remember,
anyway.

It is quite an astonishing piece of footage.

--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

Peter Hall

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Aug 14, 2007, 3:14:08 AM8/14/07
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I like the video very well done
poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?

bad man rosenstiel


"Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...

Martin

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Aug 14, 2007, 4:51:59 AM8/14/07
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:

I assume this is at the Revolution pub, an absolute hotspot for illegal
deliveries:
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/gallery/13/


> Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a positive
> identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that I remember,
> anyway.

That seems pretty clearly like Colin to me.

Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status Colin has
on the city council and that his actions are a breach of the law and could
affect the pub's licence, so that he might want to move quick sharp, and
in future deliver on the yellow lines round the corner.


Martin

>
> It is quite an astonishing piece of footage.
>
> --
> Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
> PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
>


Martin

Martin

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Aug 14, 2007, 4:54:21 AM8/14/07
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:

> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?

Thankfully not, from what I can see. At no point does Colin's arm seem to
be in physical contact with the driver of the illegally stopped vehicle.


> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?

I'd call it a heated argument, road rage if you like. Any cyclist using
that route could probably relate quite well to his anger, though I think
Colin is probably taking it a little too heated here.

>
> bad man rosenstiel
>
>
> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
> >
> > So here is a video of what i saw .......
> > after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
> > the top of his voice
> >
> > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
> >
>
>
>


Martin

Martin

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Aug 14, 2007, 4:55:43 AM8/14/07
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On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:

> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>
> our local, genial councilor
>
> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature

So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?

Colin's response to that is a separate matter.


Martin

Roland Perry

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Aug 14, 2007, 5:00:36 AM8/14/07
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In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:

>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job

It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
his job.
--
Roland Perry

Brian

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Aug 14, 2007, 5:29:53 AM8/14/07
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You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT conduct that our
Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what he
has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'

Brian.


"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...

Simon Morris

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Aug 14, 2007, 5:37:15 AM8/14/07
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Roland Perry wrote on 14/08/2007 10:00

True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
that the deliverer knows?

S.

Martin

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Aug 14, 2007, 5:47:13 AM8/14/07
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Simon Morris wrote:

> True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
> Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
> Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
> that the deliverer knows?

Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
Code.

The fact there is a delivery ban after 7.30am is an additional, planning
enforcement, matter.

There are yellow lines round the corner in Downing Place, from which
deliveries can legally (and much more considerately) be done, if the
delivery operative can be bothered to walk 20 metres or so.

Martin

Martin

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Aug 14, 2007, 5:51:12 AM8/14/07
to

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Brian wrote:

> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
> offence for which people have been imprisoned.

Is Road Rage a criminal offence? Surely malicious intent to cause harm to
a person or property, involving violent acts, which in more extreme cases
could be called road rage, would be the offence if such things happened?

> This is NOT conduct that our Councillors should be involved - he has NO
> authority to do or say what he has and should be at least repremanded
> for this 'loss of self control'
>
> Brian.
>
>
> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
> > In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
> > Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
> >
> >>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
> >
> > It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
> > his job.
> > --
> > Roland Perry
>
>
>


Martin

Tony Raven

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Aug 14, 2007, 5:57:27 AM8/14/07
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Brian wrote:
> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
> offence for which people have been imprisoned.

There is AFAIK, no offence of "road rage". There are offences that can
be committed during road rage such as assault but that's it.

This is NOT conduct that our
> Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what he
> has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
>

What did he say - when I viewed it there didn't seem to be a sound track
although maybe it was a finger or software problem.

The van driver was clearly committing an offence and was probably
unwilling to do anything about it and it is all too easy to lose it
confronted by such a situation. I always make a special effort not to
go there, such as when I met face to face yesterday a car driving onto a
cycle path to park, but not everyone succeeds.

Tony

RealMart

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Aug 14, 2007, 6:02:10 AM8/14/07
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On Aug 14, 10:47 am, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
> Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
> Code.
>
> The fact there is a delivery ban after 7.30am is an additional, planning
> enforcement, matter.
>
> There are yellow lines round the corner in Downing Place, from which
> deliveries can legally (and much more considerately) be done, if the
> delivery operative can be bothered to walk 20 metres or so.
>

I don't think anyone is arguing the driver wasn't in the wrong.

The reaction of the shouty man on the bike is clearly over the top.

I see little difference between a delivery driver parking in a cycle
lane to make a delivery and - for example - a cyclist cycling on the
pavement. Both inconsiderate to other people, and both could probably
better be dealt with by talking than shouting.

Using physical force is inexcusable and - in my view - a little
pathetic. "Pick on someone your own size" springs to mind.


J. Chisholm

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Aug 14, 2007, 6:09:22 AM8/14/07
to


Not only is the driver breaking the Law by stopping to unload in a
Mandatory Contraflow Cycle Lane (and I've confirmed with the authorities
that there is no exception for unloading), but there is a planning
restriction that does not permit any deliveries to these premises after
07:30.

I didn't think anyone had the RIGHT to break the Law, and anyone who
challenges law breakers should be respected.

Unfortunately neither the Police nor the CCTV staff seem to care a damn,
and I sometimes wonder what we pay them for.

People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even though
that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.

Note:
This morning I also saw a TNT Lorry illegally stopped unloaded at the
same spot.
see:
http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/location/11329/

Jim Chisholm

Martin

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Aug 14, 2007, 6:11:41 AM8/14/07
to

Peter, or should I say Paul,

Is there some reason why you appear to be replying to your own post,
seemingly using a different e-mail address? Header extracts:


Message-ID: <Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>
From: Paul <Pa...@mail.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.241.214

Message-ID: <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>
From: "Peter Hall" <pe...@mail.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.241.214


nslookup 81.98.241.214 gives:
cpc2-cmbg4-0-0-cust469.cmbg.cable.ntl.com.


Martin


Martin

Tony Raven

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Aug 14, 2007, 6:48:42 AM8/14/07
to
RealMart wrote:
>
> I see little difference between a delivery driver parking in a cycle
> lane to make a delivery and - for example - a cyclist cycling on the
> pavement.

Is that a pavement with our without white paint on it? Only one is
legal and the other isn't.

Tony

Jules

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Aug 14, 2007, 7:58:52 AM8/14/07
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On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:17:16 -0700, camjay wrote:
> I wouldn't blame him for getting angry per se, it just seems he is
> taking it out on the wrong guy. As a city councillor one would have
> thought that he would be in better postion than most of us to ensure
> the *appropriate* action is taken against illegal parking outside that
> pub.

Everyone has off days and screws up once in a while - the trick
is to not make a habit of it, I suppose.

Doesn't seem like a big deal to me; if the driver hadn't been illegally
stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)

Colin Rosenstiel

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Aug 14, 2007, 8:20:00 AM8/14/07
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In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
> I assume this is at the Revolution pub, an absolute hotspot for
> illegal deliveries:
> http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/gallery/13/
>
> > Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a
> > positive identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that
> > I remember, anyway.
>
> That seems pretty clearly like Colin to me.
>
> Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status
> Colin has on the city council and that his actions are a breach of
> the law and could affect the pub's licence, so that he might want
> to move quick sharp, and in future deliver on the yellow lines
> round the corner.

That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel

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Aug 14, 2007, 8:20:00 AM8/14/07
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In article <lCewi.14966$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, Br...@hotmail.com
(Brian) wrote:

> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a
> criminal offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT
> conduct that our Councillors should be involved - he has NO
> authority to do or say what he has and should be at least
> repremanded for this 'loss of self control'

The video only shows the end of an altercation. No offence was committed
except by the driver.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel

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Aug 14, 2007, 8:20:00 AM8/14/07
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In article <ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland
Perry) wrote:

Precisely. The conversation before the video started consisted of
explaining that to him and directing him to the yard which the pub has
for deliveries. He was ignoring that advice.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel

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Aug 14, 2007, 8:20:00 AM8/14/07
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In article <f9rv0i$a32$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, jc...@cam.ac.uk (J.
Chisholm) wrote:

> People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
> planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even
> though that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.

They need to do this because the present restriction is defective. Even
deliveries to the pub's yard (to which there is no reasonable objection)
are covered by that after 07:30 ban, This is the oversight that clearly
needs to be resolved.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel

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Aug 14, 2007, 8:20:00 AM8/14/07
to

Indeed. He was using a trolley for his deliveries anyway!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Ian Jackson

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Aug 14, 2007, 8:45:42 AM8/14/07
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In article <memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk>,

Colin Rosenstiel <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
>carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
>Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.

So you agree it was you. I'm amazed that you don't seem at all
contrite. Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?

IMO illegal parking is no excuse for this behaviour from you. I would
have expected that as a councillor you might have tried to get the law
enforced rather than take it into your own hands like this.

Al Grant

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:00:47 AM8/14/07
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On 14 Aug, 13:20, rosenst...@cix.co.uk (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
> Precisely. The conversation before the video started consisted of
> explaining that to him and directing him to the yard which the pub has
> for deliveries. He was ignoring that advice.

But what does that prove? I have been physically stopped
from cycling down Trinity St (when there was no ban) and
'advised' that it was illegal to cycle there.

I didn't ignore it, I responded with the facts (which were
ignored). ISTM that the van driver is taking the least
confrontational approach. Possibly this is precisely the
approach that the police would advise any motorist to
take when confronted by someone else with no evident
authority to order them to do something.

You are right to be frustrated at the complete inability of
both police and council to do anything about this flouting
of the law, which has been going on for years, but frankly
you are in a better position to do anything about it through
proper channels than just about anyone else in Cambridge.

Or you could have gone inside the pub and demanded to
speak to the duty manager. If he had then ignored you
that would have been another black mark against the pub
to be taken account of when its license comes up - rather
than the activities of some random van driver that the
pub can disclaim all responsibility for.

The job of enforcing road law should be left to people in
uniform, for purely practical reasons if nothing else (if it
turns into a fight, it helps bystanders know whose side
to be on).

Patrick Gosling

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:30:05 AM8/14/07
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>The video only shows the end of an altercation. No offence was committed
>except by the driver.

My (unqualified, amateur) understanding of the relevant laws suggests to
me that people should be cautious of emulating your behaviour, since
they would be at non-trivial risk of being successfully prosecuted for
the offence of common assault, if someone wanted to make a point.

-patrick.

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:40:34 AM8/14/07
to
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:17:16 -0700, camjay <cam...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 13 Aug, 22:27, Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:49:53 GMT, "Paul" <P...@mail.com> wrote:
>> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
>>
>> >So here is a video of what i saw .......
>> >after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
>> >the top of his voice
>>
>> >http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>>
>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>>
>> our local, genial councilor
>>
>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he
>> was the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>
>I wouldn't blame him for getting angry

so you CONDONE him hitting the delivery driver twice with his door?

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:41:28 AM8/14/07
to

TYPICAL if a driver had done the self same thing to a cyclist there
would be uproar, yet our Colin gets your support

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:42:42 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:55:43 +0100, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>
>
>On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>>
>> our local, genial councilor
>>
>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
>> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>
>So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?

No, but the he didn't assault Colin!


>
>Colin's response to that is a separate matter.
>
>
>Martin


NO Colin's behavior ISN'T a separate matter, it is Colin's response to
the situation that is being highlighted here

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:44:03 AM8/14/07
to


So she has "still" picture evidence of you assaulting the driver then
Colin

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:46:54 AM8/14/07
to
On 14 Aug 2007 13:45:42 +0100 (BST), Ian Jackson
<ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>In article <memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk>,
>Colin Rosenstiel <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote:
>>That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
>>carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
>>Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.
>
>So you agree it was you. I'm amazed that you don't seem at all
>contrite. Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
>with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?
>
>IMO illegal parking is no excuse for this behaviour from you. I would
>have expected that as a councillor you might have tried to get the law
>enforced rather than take it into your own hands like this.


Unfortunately I do not have video evidence, but I have seen Colin
behave like this before, when I was on the taxi rank in Station Road,
he cycled past another delivery driver hurling abuse at him again, we
are starting to see a pattern of behavior here Colin

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:48:31 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:54:21 +0100, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>
>
>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall wrote:
>
>> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
>

>Thankfully not, from what I can see. At no point does Colin's arm seem to
>be in physical contact with the driver of the illegally stopped vehicle.


>
>
>> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>

>I'd call it a heated argument, road rage if you like. Any cyclist using
>that route could probably relate quite well to his anger, though I think
>Colin is probably taking it a little too heated here.


You need to watch the video again, you can see clearly, that when
Colin forces the second rear door shut, he uses the door as a means to
batter the driver out of the way!


>
>
>
>>
>> bad man rosenstiel
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...

>> >I could not believe my eyes ..........
>> >
>> > So here is a video of what i saw .......
>> > after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
>> > the top of his voice
>> >
>> > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

>Martin

Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 9:49:01 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:00:36 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

And so must Colin obey the law when he is dealing with a situation
like this

J. Chisholm

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:49:29 AM8/14/07
to

What has he done to the illegal driver, apart from giving him a mouthful?

I've given mouthfulls to illegal drivers and cyclists, although I do try
and keep my cool. I usually get far worse back. (including from the
Manager of the Revolution)
I can still remember the time I told off a fellow cyclist for going
through a red light and was told "F off old man".
I certainly wasn't the first time I'd been told to F off, and I've
learnt to ignore it, but I was very hurt to be called an Old Man!

Jim Chisholm

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:50:32 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:20 +0100 (BST), rosen...@cix.co.uk (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:


You rammed the driver with the rear door, that assault, and that my
friend is an offence

Daveyboy

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Aug 14, 2007, 9:52:31 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:47:13 +0100, Martin <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>
>
>On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Simon Morris wrote:
>
>> True. But the specific complaint of "CR" (I don't know whether it's
>> Colin Rosenstiel) is that the white van shouldn't deliver after 7.30am.
>> Is that clear at the roadside, or is it up to the deliveree to make sure
>> that the deliverer knows?
>
>Irrespective of CR's specific complaint, the deliverer is in a Mandatory
>Cycle Lane, which is an offence, one of the "MUST NOT" bits of the Highway
>Code.

I am sure it says in LAW that you must not cause common assault to
anyone, as Colin did to the driver, ramming the door into the driver
twice before getting it shut, then we must look at his abusive and
threatening behavior...

Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 9:55:12 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:09:22 +0100, "J. Chisholm" <jc...@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Peter Hall wrote:
>> I like the video very well done
>> poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>> Is that an arm in the door while he trying to force it shut?
>> Would this be classed as assault? or Criminal damage to the wing mirror?
>>
>> bad man rosenstiel
>>
>>
>> "Paul" <Pa...@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Rt3wi.17522$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>>> I could not believe my eyes ..........
>>>
>>> So here is a video of what i saw .......
>>> after he had forced the wing mirror into the van shouting and swearing at
>>> the top of his voice
>>>
>>> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3079031821599376327&hl=en-GB
>>>
>>
>
>
>Not only is the driver breaking the Law by stopping to unload in a
>Mandatory Contraflow Cycle Lane (and I've confirmed with the authorities
>that there is no exception for unloading), but there is a planning
>restriction that does not permit any deliveries to these premises after
>07:30.
>
>I didn't think anyone had the RIGHT to break the Law, and anyone who
>challenges law breakers should be respected.

even if that person breaks the law by assaulting the driver?


>
>Unfortunately neither the Police nor the CCTV staff seem to care a damn,
>and I sometimes wonder what we pay them for.
>
>People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
>planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even though
>that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.
>
>Note:
>This morning I also saw a TNT Lorry illegally stopped unloaded at the
>same spot.

Did you stop, and ram the delivery drivers arm twice with the door of
his van?

Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 9:56:37 AM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:49:29 +0100, "J. Chisholm" <jc...@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Daveyboy wrote:


>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:58:52 +0100, Jules
>> <julesric...@remove.this.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:17:16 -0700, camjay wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't blame him for getting angry per se, it just seems he is
>>>> taking it out on the wrong guy. As a city councillor one would have
>>>> thought that he would be in better postion than most of us to ensure
>>>> the *appropriate* action is taken against illegal parking outside that
>>>> pub.
>>> Everyone has off days and screws up once in a while - the trick
>>> is to not make a habit of it, I suppose.
>>>
>>> Doesn't seem like a big deal to me; if the driver hadn't been illegally
>>> stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
>>> happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
>>> even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)
>>>
>>>
>> TYPICAL if a driver had done the self same thing to a cyclist there
>> would be uproar, yet our Colin gets your support
>
>What has he done to the illegal driver, apart from giving him a mouthful?

Hit the driver twice with the rear door of the van... watch the video
again

Roland Perry

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 10:10:32 AM8/14/07
to
In message <lCewi.14966$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, at 09:29:53 on
Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Brian <Br...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>You have said that this is 'road rage' at best

No I haven't.

>- well, thats a criminal
>offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT conduct that our
>Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what he
>has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'

I have refrained from commenting on that aspect.

>"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...


>> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
>> Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>>

>>>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>>

>> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
>> his job.

>> --
>> Roland Perry
>
>

--
Roland Perry

Ian Jackson

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 10:16:16 AM8/14/07
to
In article <sKD*9J...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,

Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
>with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?

In fact, looking at it again in slow motion and expanded, it seems
pretty clear to me.

At 14.3s in the clip you have just grasped the door with your left
hand, reaching over the driver's right shoulder with your arm going
past his head. The door wobbles slightly.

At 15.0s the door starts to move towards you.

At 15.4s the door has caught behind the driver's shoulder and as a
result the driver's body starts to move forward and to his right while
turning to his left.

At 15.6s the driver is clearly quite off balance, facing along the
road away from the van; he flings out his left arm to avoid falling.

At 16.1s the driver is facing away from you to his left, and has
stepped backwards as a result of the shove from the door.

At 17.3s he has clearly regained his balance and is turning to face
you while backing off.

docto...@hotmail.com

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 10:44:34 AM8/14/07
to
On 14 Aug, 15:16, Ian Jackson <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <sKD*9J...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Ian Jackson <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Looking at the video you seem to strike the driver's arm
> >with the van door as you close it. Am I correct ?
>
> In fact, looking at it again in slow motion and expanded, it seems
> pretty clear to me.
>
> At 14.3s in the clip you have just grasped the door with your left
> hand, reaching over the driver's right shoulder with your arm going
> past his head. The door wobbles slightly.
>
> At 15.0s the door starts to move towards you.
>
> At 15.4s the door has caught behind the driver's shoulder and as a
> result the driver's body starts to move forward and to his right while
> turning to his left.
>
> At 15.6s the driver is clearly quite off balance, facing along the
> road away from the van; he flings out his left arm to avoid falling.
>
> At 16.1s the driver is facing away from you to his left, and has
> stepped backwards as a result of the shove from the door.
>
> At 17.3s he has clearly regained his balance and is turning to face
> you while backing off.
>
> --
> Ian Jackson personal email: <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>

> These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
> PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657

I and others have seen him do this before in the past to drivers. I'm
just glad someone caught it on video for all to see. I think Col needs
an anger management course or step down from the council as it seems
to be stressing him to much and is neither healthy for him or anyone
around him to be subjected to this sort of behavior and cirtainly not
conducive to being a 'liberal' leader of the Lib Dems

mike

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:35:22 AM8/14/07
to
> Doesn't seem like a big deal to me; if the driver hadn't been illegally
> stopped there in the first place then the whole event wouldn't even have
> happened. Good on Colin (if it was Colin) for setting the guy straight,
> even if he was a little grumpy about it :-)
>
>
>What a moron you are, thats like saying everytime a cyclist goes down
>sidney st the wrong way a motorist has the right to clump him.
Mike


mike

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:38:55 AM8/14/07
to

"Martin" <mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk...

>
>
> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007, Daveyboy wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh dear
>>
>> our local, genial councilor
>>
>> I am sure there will be a huge explanation from Colin, about how he was
>> the victim, but it just goes to show Colin's real nature
>
> So are you condoning the driver's illegal behaviour?
>
> Colin's response to that is a separate matter.
>
>
> Martin

illegal or not, the law is the law and rosenstiel does not have the right to
do as he did

mike


Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:41:38 AM8/14/07
to


For once mike I am in complete agreement with you, I think its
disgusting behavior, and even tho we have traded blows (verbally of
course) on here about various subjects, this time, we are singing from
the same hymn sheet

mike

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:41:18 AM8/14/07
to
> That seems pretty clearly like Colin to me.
>
> Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status Colin has
> on the city council and that his actions are a breach of the law and could
> affect the pub's licence, so that he might want to move quick sharp, and
> in future deliver on the yellow lines round the corner.
Martin

It matters not what rosenstiels position is on the council, Its Assult
criminal damage and road rage,

mike


mike

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:44:19 AM8/14/07
to

"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...

> In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.07...@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
> mv...@remove.cam.ac.uk (Martin) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>
>> I assume this is at the Revolution pub, an absolute hotspot for
>> illegal deliveries:
>> http://www.camcycle.org.uk/map/gallery/13/
>>
>> > Is that a video you took ? It's a bit hard to see to get a
>> > positive identification and I haven't met Colin Rosenstiel, that
>> > I remember, anyway.
>>
>> That seems pretty clearly like Colin to me.
>>
>> Personally if I were Colin, I would have made clear what status
>> Colin has on the city council and that his actions are a breach of
>> the law and could affect the pub's licence, so that he might want
>> to move quick sharp, and in future deliver on the yellow lines
>> round the corner.
>
> That was all done before the video started of course. He insisted on
> carrying on with his lawbreaking. Your Cycling Campaign colleague Lisa
> Woodburn is also in the video, taking still pictures.
>
> --
> Colin Rosenstiel

So what right do you have to Assault the guy, cause criminal damage and road
rage,

mike


mike

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:46:42 AM8/14/07
to

"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> In article <lCewi.14966$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, Br...@hotmail.com
> (Brian) wrote:
>
>> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a

>> criminal offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT
>> conduct that our Councillors should be involved - he has NO
>> authority to do or say what he has and should be at least
>> repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
>
> The video only shows the end of an altercation. No offence was committed
> except by the driver.
>
> --
> Colin Rosenstiel

Best you go to vission express then, even the police have said several
offences have taken place.and we the public voted you in, your nothing but
trash and deserve to be punished.

mike


Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:47:22 AM8/14/07
to


and to back up what Mike has said


The term ‘road rage’ which is believed to have originated in America
has become increasingly more common in the UK. It generally refers to
displays of aggression by drivers. These displays can take a variety
of forms. The most common forms are as follows:

* Flashing headlights;
* Driving within inches of the car in front which is known as
‘tailgating’;
* Aggressive use of the horn;

******************************************************************
* Verbal abuse;
* Aggressive gestures;
* Physical attack on other drivers and their vehicles;
******************************************************************


* Cutting up the vehicle in front after overtaking it.


this excerpt was taken from
http://www.desktoplawyer.co.uk/dt/browse/law/lawguide/road-safety/road-rage/S75993-35273X/

and I have made obvious (the 3 together in the * box) IMO what Colin
did and constitutes road rage

mike

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:48:09 AM8/14/07
to

>
> IMO illegal parking is no excuse for this behaviour from you. I would
> have expected that as a councillor you might have tried to get the law
> enforced rather than take it into your own hands like this.
>
very true

mike


steve

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:54:22 AM8/14/07
to

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ABHbugC0...@perry.co.uk...
> In message <4Dcwi.18416$S91....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, at 07:14:08 on
> Tue, 14 Aug 2007, Peter Hall <pe...@mail.com> remarked:
>
>>poor delivery driver all he's trying to do is a job
>
> It doesn't matter how poor he is, he must still obey the law when doing
> his job.
> --
> Roland Perry

Then its up to rosenstiel to call the police not cause road rage and take it
into his own hands, i expect this sort of behaviour from the BNP and if it
did happen it would make front page national press, i dont expect it from
lib dems. in fact the lib dems have now lost my vote and i think its time
rosenstiel went, and if he is a man he would *resign* now

Steve


steve

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:55:23 AM8/14/07
to

"Brian" <Br...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lCewi.14966$mo....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

> You have said that this is 'road rage' at best - well, thats a criminal
> offence for which people have been imprisoned. This is NOT conduct that
> our Councillors should be involved - he has NO authority to do or say what
> he has and should be at least repremanded for this 'loss of self control'
>
> Brian.
>
Out with rosenstiel i say, untill the man has gone you have lost my vote.

Steve


steve

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:57:20 AM8/14/07
to

"Colin Rosenstiel" <rosen...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2007081...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
> In article <f9rv0i$a32$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, jc...@cam.ac.uk (J.

> Chisholm) wrote:
>
>> People should be made aware that the Revolution may be submitting a
>> planning application to relax the restriction on deliveries, even
>> though that won't make deliveries from the cycle lane any more legal.
>
> They need to do this because the present restriction is defective. Even
> deliveries to the pub's yard (to which there is no reasonable objection)
> are covered by that after 07:30 ban, This is the oversight that clearly
> needs to be resolved.
>
> --
> Colin Rosenstiel

Stop trying to worm out of it rosenstiel, your nothing but scum a common
criminal been caught in the act, if you was a real man you would resign and
try to save the party.

steve


Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 11:59:33 AM8/14/07
to


Lets face it, Charles Kennedy had a drink, and resigned, he didn't
assault a motorist, time to go Colin??

Robin Stevens

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:11:27 PM8/14/07
to
steve <.> wrote in cam.transport:

> Out with rosenstiel i say, untill the man has gone you have lost my vote.

> Steve

Ah, good to see our anonymous sockpuppets are back, eh "mark" (or is it
"mike"?)

--
Robin Stevens <re...@cynic.org.uk>
---- http://www.cynic.org.uk/ ----

Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:21:10 PM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:11:27 +0000 (UTC), Robin Stevens
<re...@cynic.org.uk> wrote:

>steve <.> wrote in cam.transport:
>
>> Out with rosenstiel i say, untill the man has gone you have lost my vote.
>
>> Steve
>
>Ah, good to see our anonymous sockpuppets are back, eh "mark" (or is it
>"mike"?)

I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
got to say about roseteilgate? (sorry f1 fan and its the way they do
it :))

Andrew May

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:28:50 PM8/14/07
to
steve wrote:
... if he is a man he would *resign* now

Perhaps if you were a man you would use a real email address to post
from Steve, or should that be Mike?

Has anyone else notice this? That the most vociferous anti-cycling
posters on cam.transport don't have the balls to identify themselves
whereas the most vociferous pro-cycling posters do. Stand up and be
counted.

Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:34:50 PM8/14/07
to


and if you watch the video are you surprised, when the likes of Colin
go round abusing motorists, we fear for our safety

Robin Stevens

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:42:07 PM8/14/07
to
Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in cam.transport:

> I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
> quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
> got to say about roseteilgate?

I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.

Daveyboy

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:51:00 PM8/14/07
to
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:42:07 +0000 (UTC), Robin Stevens
<re...@cynic.org.uk> wrote:

>Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in cam.transport:
>
>> I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
>> quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
>> got to say about roseteilgate?
>
>I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
>this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.


thank you for again pointing out my dyslexia, another pop at someone,
you know full well there should have been an N in there, but wanted to
make me look bad for my knack of spelling things badly? (had to get my
wife to show me where the spelling was wrong)

as to the van driver being out of order... how so, illegally parked
maybe, but I cant see how he was out of order

Colin surpassed out of order by a country mile

docto...@hotmail.com

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:53:11 PM8/14/07
to
On 14 Aug, 17:42, Robin Stevens <r...@cynic.org.uk> wrote:
> Daveyboy <m...@them.com.invalid> wrote in cam.transport:
>
> > I see you detract completely from the contents of the thread to have a
> > quick pop at someone, without contributing to the post, what have you
> > got to say about roseteilgate?
>
> I don't know of any business involving the Roseteilgate Building, but in
> this case, IMHO, the van driver appears to be out of line, as does Colin.
>
> --
> Robin Stevens <r...@cynic.org.uk>
> ----http://www.cynic.org.uk/----

I agree with you but there was only one person being aggresive and
intimidating it wasn't the van driver. As I said earlier I have seen
him do this before and it's about time the wider public got to see how
he behaves. He should be ashamed of himself.

Mike Clark

unread,
Aug 14, 2007, 12:59:26 PM8/14/07