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GWR peak time restrictions
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Robin Stevens
Sep 21, 2021, 5:43:58 PM9/21/21
to
Today I had cause, for the first time in nearly two years, to go from
Oxford to London on an off-peak day travelcard.
Returning from Paddington, I'm sure the rule used to be that off-peak
tickets weren't valid on the fast services, but were valid on the stopping
services serving the minor stations between Reading and Didcot[1]. Today
though, the screens made it clear that off-peak tickets weren't welcome, at
least not on the 1720 to Didcot[2]. At this point I gave up and went round
to Marylebone where no evening peak restrictions seem to apply.
Back home, I'm trying to find out what the restrictions actually are, but
nothing seems to tell me directly. I can try and figure it out via NRE[3]
though by default it of course only wants to show me the fast trains that
are definitely not usable on cheapskate tickets. Evidence suggests
offpeaks aren't valid on the GWR stoppers, but are on the TFL ones to
Reading, at which point they can *then* be used for onward travel on fast GWR
services to Oxford that I wouldn't have been allowed to use from
Paddington (or XC services). And on *some* fast GWR trains
to Didcot, followed by the shuttle to Oxford.
I'm coming to the conclusion that mere passengers are not supposed to know
the actual rules, merely obey them. Or can anyone here provide greater
enlightenment?
[1] Or, once upon a time, continuing to Oxford rather than forcing a change
to the silly shuttle we're stuck with in place of the promised
electrification, sigh. I suppose we should be grateul that shuttle exists.
[2] Which I now see didn't actually get there anyway.
[3] Not entirely reliable given past experience.
Oxford to London on an off-peak day travelcard.
Returning from Paddington, I'm sure the rule used to be that off-peak
tickets weren't valid on the fast services, but were valid on the stopping
services serving the minor stations between Reading and Didcot[1]. Today
though, the screens made it clear that off-peak tickets weren't welcome, at
least not on the 1720 to Didcot[2]. At this point I gave up and went round
to Marylebone where no evening peak restrictions seem to apply.
Back home, I'm trying to find out what the restrictions actually are, but
nothing seems to tell me directly. I can try and figure it out via NRE[3]
though by default it of course only wants to show me the fast trains that
are definitely not usable on cheapskate tickets. Evidence suggests
offpeaks aren't valid on the GWR stoppers, but are on the TFL ones to
Reading, at which point they can *then* be used for onward travel on fast GWR
services to Oxford that I wouldn't have been allowed to use from
Paddington (or XC services). And on *some* fast GWR trains
to Didcot, followed by the shuttle to Oxford.
I'm coming to the conclusion that mere passengers are not supposed to know
the actual rules, merely obey them. Or can anyone here provide greater
enlightenment?
[1] Or, once upon a time, continuing to Oxford rather than forcing a change
to the silly shuttle we're stuck with in place of the promised
electrification, sigh. I suppose we should be grateul that shuttle exists.
[2] Which I now see didn't actually get there anyway.
[3] Not entirely reliable given past experience.
Tim Ward
Sep 21, 2021, 6:51:46 PM9/21/21
to
On 21/09/2021 22:43, Robin Stevens wrote:
>
> I'm coming to the conclusion that mere passengers are not supposed to know
> the actual rules
You've caught up with me then - I came to that conclusion many years ago
>
> I'm coming to the conclusion that mere passengers are not supposed to know
> the actual rules
as regular readers will know! :-)
--
Tim Ward - 07801 703 600
www.brettward.co.uk
Roland Perry
Sep 22, 2021, 1:37:42 AM9/22/21
to
In message <sidjmr$5hg$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>, at 21:43:57 on Tue, 21 Sep
2021, Robin Stevens <re...@cynic.org.uk> remarked:
Bedwyn, and that 17:20 above, unless it's a glitch in the resources I
describe later. I suspect a recent timetable change hasn't been
reflected in the restriction codes, but then again the resources I'm
using are claimed to be definitive, it may even say that on the ticket.
>but are on the TFL ones to
>Reading, at which point they can *then* be used for onward travel on fast GWR
>services to Oxford that I wouldn't have been allowed to use from
>Paddington (or XC services).
No and yes, respectively.
>And on *some* fast GWR trains to Didcot, followed by the shuttle to
>Oxford.
If you can get to Didcot, you can use the shuttle, but I think that
requires XC Reading-Didcot, and they go to Reading anyway.
>I'm coming to the conclusion that mere passengers are not supposed to know
>the actual rules, merely obey them. Or can anyone here provide greater
>enlightenment?
>
>[1] Or, once upon a time, continuing to Oxford rather than forcing a change
>to the silly shuttle we're stuck with in place of the promised
>electrification, sigh. I suppose we should be grateul that shuttle exists.
>[2] Which I now see didn't actually get there anyway.
>[3] Not entirely reliable given past experience.
It's fairly straightforward, and there's only one underlying database,
which is thankfully online (back in the day it was only available in
printed form).
This is the "view" I tend to use, although various online journey
planners have their own variations.
https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=OXF&dest=1072
And the ticket you bought:
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=OXF&dest=1072&grpd=0035&tkt=ODT
The restriction code [P7] should be printed on the ticket, and can also
be queried like this: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/p7 and there are
links to that on the National Rail site.
Extract: (Not valid on these trains departing Paddington, Reading times
in brackets, if no bracketed time, it non-stops Reading). I've skipped
the bulk of the intermediate trains which don't go via Oxford[**].
16:02 (16:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
16:04 (16:29) to Penzance
16:08 (16:37) to Bedwyn
16:15 to Swansea
16:18 (16:42) to Cardiff Central
16:20 (16:48) to Oxford
...
16:58 to Great Malvern
...
17:34 (17:59) to Worcester Foregate Street
...
17:58 to Worcester Foregate Street
...
18:28 to Banbury
...
18:58 to Hereford
... and finally a not-Oxford train
19:18 (19:42) to Swansea
It's recently become much clearer that the restrictions apply to
*trains* irrespective of where you board them, so the 'relay race'
approach doesn't work, if you are changing at Reading onto one of the
listed InterCity services.
Also, listing them explicitly is more helpful than the former practice
of just giving a window of times (eg 16:00 to 19:29 in this case).
Meanwhile, if you catch an outer suburban service to Reading, then the
following evening peak services are available for the final leg:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:RDG/to/gb-
nr:OXF/2021-09-28/1630-1945?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=XC>
[**]To filter the timetable, see other queries such as below, note this
site will only filter trains in the future, so I've picked *next*
Tuesday:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:PAD/to/gb-
nr:OXF/2021-09-28/1600-1930?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt>
--
Roland Perry
2021, Robin Stevens <re...@cynic.org.uk> remarked:
>Today I had cause, for the first time in nearly two years, to go from
>Oxford to London on an off-peak day travelcard.
>
>Returning from Paddington, I'm sure the rule used to be that off-peak
>tickets weren't valid on the fast services, but were valid on the stopping
>services serving the minor stations between Reading and Didcot[1]. Today
>though, the screens made it clear that off-peak tickets weren't welcome, at
>least not on the 1720 to Didcot[2]. At this point I gave up and went round
>to Marylebone where no evening peak restrictions seem to apply.
>
>Back home, I'm trying to find out what the restrictions actually are, but
>nothing seems to tell me directly. I can try and figure it out via NRE[3]
>though by default it of course only wants to show me the fast trains that
>are definitely not usable on cheapskate tickets. Evidence suggests
>offpeaks aren't valid on the GWR stoppers,
They appear to be, exceptionally, on the 17:06 and 19:07 to Newbury/
>Oxford to London on an off-peak day travelcard.
>
>Returning from Paddington, I'm sure the rule used to be that off-peak
>tickets weren't valid on the fast services, but were valid on the stopping
>services serving the minor stations between Reading and Didcot[1]. Today
>though, the screens made it clear that off-peak tickets weren't welcome, at
>least not on the 1720 to Didcot[2]. At this point I gave up and went round
>to Marylebone where no evening peak restrictions seem to apply.
>
>Back home, I'm trying to find out what the restrictions actually are, but
>nothing seems to tell me directly. I can try and figure it out via NRE[3]
>though by default it of course only wants to show me the fast trains that
>are definitely not usable on cheapskate tickets. Evidence suggests
>offpeaks aren't valid on the GWR stoppers,
Bedwyn, and that 17:20 above, unless it's a glitch in the resources I
describe later. I suspect a recent timetable change hasn't been
reflected in the restriction codes, but then again the resources I'm
using are claimed to be definitive, it may even say that on the ticket.
>but are on the TFL ones to
>Reading, at which point they can *then* be used for onward travel on fast GWR
>services to Oxford that I wouldn't have been allowed to use from
>Paddington (or XC services).
>And on *some* fast GWR trains to Didcot, followed by the shuttle to
>Oxford.
requires XC Reading-Didcot, and they go to Reading anyway.
>I'm coming to the conclusion that mere passengers are not supposed to know
>the actual rules, merely obey them. Or can anyone here provide greater
>enlightenment?
>
>[1] Or, once upon a time, continuing to Oxford rather than forcing a change
>to the silly shuttle we're stuck with in place of the promised
>electrification, sigh. I suppose we should be grateul that shuttle exists.
>[2] Which I now see didn't actually get there anyway.
>[3] Not entirely reliable given past experience.
which is thankfully online (back in the day it was only available in
printed form).
This is the "view" I tend to use, although various online journey
planners have their own variations.
https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=OXF&dest=1072
And the ticket you bought:
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=OXF&dest=1072&grpd=0035&tkt=ODT
The restriction code [P7] should be printed on the ticket, and can also
be queried like this: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/p7 and there are
links to that on the National Rail site.
Extract: (Not valid on these trains departing Paddington, Reading times
in brackets, if no bracketed time, it non-stops Reading). I've skipped
the bulk of the intermediate trains which don't go via Oxford[**].
16:02 (16:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
16:04 (16:29) to Penzance
16:08 (16:37) to Bedwyn
16:15 to Swansea
16:18 (16:42) to Cardiff Central
16:20 (16:48) to Oxford
...
16:58 to Great Malvern
...
17:34 (17:59) to Worcester Foregate Street
...
17:58 to Worcester Foregate Street
...
18:28 to Banbury
...
18:58 to Hereford
... and finally a not-Oxford train
19:18 (19:42) to Swansea
It's recently become much clearer that the restrictions apply to
*trains* irrespective of where you board them, so the 'relay race'
approach doesn't work, if you are changing at Reading onto one of the
listed InterCity services.
Also, listing them explicitly is more helpful than the former practice
of just giving a window of times (eg 16:00 to 19:29 in this case).
Meanwhile, if you catch an outer suburban service to Reading, then the
following evening peak services are available for the final leg:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:RDG/to/gb-
nr:OXF/2021-09-28/1630-1945?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=XC>
[**]To filter the timetable, see other queries such as below, note this
site will only filter trains in the future, so I've picked *next*
Tuesday:
<https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:PAD/to/gb-
nr:OXF/2021-09-28/1600-1930?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt>
--
Roland Perry
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