More on wifi calling abroad.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It seems possible that if you stick your phone in 'airplane' mode before
you leave, and keep it that way, the operator never detects that you are
on a 'foreign' network. And wifi still works.

Obviously that restricts your calls to where you HAVE wifi...



--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

[Roland Perry]

In message <p8837i$qav$1...@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:46 on Tue, 13 Mar
2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>It seems possible that if you stick your phone in 'airplane' mode
>before you leave, and keep it that way, the operator never detects that
>you are on a 'foreign' network. And wifi still works.
>
>Obviously that restricts your calls to where you HAVE wifi...

Is this the phone company's wifi-calling[1] or just third party stuff
like Whatsapp?

[1] Which I would expect to include features like in/out voice calls and
texts on my regular phone number. Although I understand that some
wifi-calling implementations *don't* implement texts.
--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 13/03/18 09:21, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <p8837i$qav$1...@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:46 on Tue, 13 Mar
> 2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>> It seems possible that if you stick your phone in 'airplane' mode
>> before you leave, and keep it that way, the operator never detects that
>> you are on a 'foreign' network. And wifi still works.
>>
>> Obviously that restricts your calls to where you HAVE wifi...
>
> Is this the phone company's wifi-calling[1] or just third party stuff
> like Whatsapp?
>

In the thread I read it was the mobile company's wifi calling - EE in fact.

> [1] Which I would expect to include features like in/out voice calls and
> texts on my regular phone number. Although I understand that some
> wifi-calling implementations *don't* implement texts.
>

My 3 mobile wifi calling is absolutely flawless - once I got the right
phone with the right software. (Overpriced Galaxy J3 2017)

Because its now built in to android and IOS on MOST recent phones*, its
completely seamless.

Make and receive calls and send and receive texts no problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network

EE & vodaphone on plan, and 3 on plan *and* payg, all support the Wifi
calling standard. So within the UK its pretty seamless. Cost no more and
no less.

I wonder if there is a way to tunnel to a UK IP address :-)

*Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM free
from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one from '3'
and take the Argos one back...





--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

[Roland Perry]

In message <p88evn$kv6$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:22 on Tue, 13 Mar

2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>My 3 mobile wifi calling is absolutely flawless - once I got the right
>phone with the right software. (Overpriced Galaxy J3 2017)
>
>Because its now built in to android and IOS on MOST recent phones*, its
>completely seamless.

...

>*Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM free
>from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one from
>'3' and take the Argos one back...

Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or if
you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of wifi
calling was only installed on the 3 phone.

So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware, and
very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
--
Roland Perry

[Richard Kettlewell]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM
>> free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>> from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>
> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
> if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
> wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>
> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
> and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.

Worse than that. My phone supposedly has native wifi calling, but (it
turns out) only if bought from the mobile operator. The wifi calling app
does work though (at least, as well as it did on my previous phone).

Fortunately most of my communications are through applications which
don’t care what the physical layer is, as long as they can move IP
packets around.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

[Roland Perry]

In message <87fu542...@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>, at 14:12:53 on Tue, 13
Mar 2018, Richard Kettlewell <inv...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM
>>> free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>>> from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>>
>> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
>> if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
>> wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>>
>> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>> and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>
>Worse than that. My phone supposedly has native wifi calling, but (it
>turns out) only if bought from the mobile operator.

Actually I think that's "the same" rather than "worse". But I feel your
pain.

>The wifi calling app
>does work though (at least, as well as it did on my previous phone).
>
>Fortunately most of my communications are through applications which
>don’t care what the physical layer is, as long as they can move IP
>packets around.

--

Roland Perry

[Richard Kettlewell]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <inv...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>>>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM
>>>> free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>>>> from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>>>
>>> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
>>> if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
>>> wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>>>
>>> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>>> and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>>
>> Worse than that. My phone supposedly has native wifi calling, but (it
>> turns out) only if bought from the mobile operator.
>
> Actually I think that's "the same" rather than "worse". But I feel
> your pain.

I took ‘phone-specific’ to mean ‘model-specific’, so not capturing the
additional dependency on sales channel. Sorry if I misunderstood.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

[Roland Perry]

In message <87a7vc2...@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>, at 14:47:20 on Tue, 13

Mar 2018, Richard Kettlewell <inv...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>>>>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM
>>>>> free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>>>>> from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>>>>
>>>> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
>>>> if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
>>>> wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>>>>
>>>> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>>>> and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>>>
>>> Worse than that. My phone supposedly has native wifi calling, but (it
>>> turns out) only if bought from the mobile operator.
>>
>> Actually I think that's "the same" rather than "worse". But I feel
>> your pain.
>
>I took ‘phone-specific’ to mean ‘model-specific’, so not capturing the
>additional dependency on sales channel. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I'm afraid you did misunderstand, because the earlier postings were
about the same phone (J3) arriving via different channels.
--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 13/03/18 13:44, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <p88evn$kv6$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:22 on Tue, 13 Mar
> 2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>
>> My 3 mobile wifi calling is absolutely flawless - once I got the right
>> phone with the right software. (Overpriced Galaxy J3 2017)
>>
>> Because its now built in to android and IOS on MOST recent phones*,
>> its completely seamless.
>
> ...
>
>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM free
>> from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one from
>> '3' and take the Argos one back...
>
> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or if
> you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of wifi
> calling was only installed on the 3 phone.

No. That is simply not true.

Wifi calling to the standard is a standard android feature.

Its disabled on Samsung generic phones., Just as the ability to move
apps into expansion card space is ALSO disabled.

>
> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware, and
> very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.

#
No, it doesn't seem.
But hey, its your ego, you take care of it. No one else will.




--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 13/03/18 14:12, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:
>>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM
>>> free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>>> from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>>
>> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
>> if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
>> wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>>
>> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>> and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>
> Worse than that. My phone supposedly has native wifi calling, but (it
> turns out) only if bought from the mobile operator. The wifi calling app
> does work though (at least, as well as it did on my previous phone).
>

Thats not a mish mash. Its a very specific feature that works well but
is deliberatly crippled by the manufacturer.

> Fortunately most of my communications are through applications which
> don’t care what the physical layer is, as long as they can move IP
> packets around.
>


--

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yup. That is samsung pandering to the operators


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

[Roland Perry]

In message <p88vet$klk$1...@dont-email.me>, at 16:49:32 on Tue, 13 Mar

2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>On 13/03/18 13:44, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <p88evn$kv6$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:08:22 on Tue, 13 Mar
>>2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>>
>>> My 3 mobile wifi calling is absolutely flawless - once I got the
>>>right phone with the right software. (Overpriced Galaxy J3 2017)
>>>
>>> Because its now built in to android and IOS on MOST recent phones*,
>>>its completely seamless.
>> ...
>>
>>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought SIM
>>>free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>>>from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
>>if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
>>wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>
>No. That is simply not true.
>
>Wifi calling to the standard is a standard android feature.
>
>Its disabled on Samsung generic phones.,

There's no such thing as a compulsory "standard Android feature". It's a
kit of parts which manufacturers/distributors can select which they want
to deploy in any particular product.

Thus Argos deciding to buy in a vanilla product without any of the
dozens of different wifi-calling tweaks required for phones on different
networks around the word, is perfectly legitimate.

>Just as the ability to move apps into expansion card space is ALSO
>disabled.

Hence I would also characterise that as "not enabled", rather than
"disabled".

[Although I'd mention that ability to move apps to expansion cards is
something which ebbs and flows from one version of Android to another,
so it's not always the manufacturer's choice]

>> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>>and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>#
>No, it doesn't seem.

Both you and RichardK have today given examples of 'very phone specific'
scenarios.

>But hey, its your ego, you take care of it. No one else will.

That chip on your shoulder is affecting your point of view.

--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <p88vj8$klk$3...@dont-email.me>, at 16:51:52 on Tue, 13 Mar
2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>>>>>>> *Though often disabled by various manufacturers - a J3 bought
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> free from Argos did NOT have the feature available: I had to buy one
>>>>>>> from '3' and take the Argos one back...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably not "disabled on the Argos phone", rather some firmware [or
>>>>>> if you like, the Android drivers] required for 3's particular type of
>>>>>> wifi calling was only installed on the 3 phone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>>>>>> and very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Worse than that. My phone supposedly has native wifi calling, but (it
>>>>> turns out) only if bought from the mobile operator.
>>>>
>>>> Actually I think that's "the same" rather than "worse". But I feel
>>>> your pain.
>>>
>>> I took ‘phone-specific’ to mean ‘model-specific’, so not capturing the
>>> additional dependency on sales channel. Sorry if I misunderstood.
>> I'm afraid you did misunderstand, because the earlier postings were
>>about the same phone (J3) arriving via different channels.
>
>Yup. That is samsung pandering to the operators

In the cases where the wifi-calling has been added to those phones, the
*network* is the customer, who then resells the more-fully-featured
phone to its own subscribers.
--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

How many times do I have to make the point that its now part of android
and IOS that is *disabled* purposely for specific markets



--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

[The Natural Philosopher]

Sigh. On a brand new phone running latest stable android it has to be
specifically DISABLED by samsung

How many more acane things are you goind to discover to *prove* that you
arent wrong?

>
>>>  So it seems we are still at the "mish-mash of software and firmware,
>>> and  very phone-specific" stage I mentioned yesterday.
>> #
>> No, it doesn't seem.
>
> Both you and RichardK have today given examples of 'very phone specific'
> scenarios.
>
>> But hey, its your ego, you take care of it. No one else will.
>
> That chip on your shoulder is affecting your point of view.
>

Turn round Roland, thats not me in the mirror.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

[Theo]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Sigh. On a brand new phone running latest stable android it has to be
> specifically DISABLED by samsung

Samsung phones don't run standard Android, they run TouchWiz which is *very*
messed about with.

<picks up random Samsung>
Running Android 6.0, stock unlocked UK firmware (XX DQ)
Using (third party) Activity Launcher app, which can start hidden settings,
I find:

Phone -> com.android.phone.VzwVoWifiCallSettings
(the settings for Verizon Wireless)
- if I start this one, nothing happens

Settings -> com.android.settings.Settings.$WifiCallingSettingsActivity
- if I start it, I go straight to 'unfortunately Settings has stopped'

Phone -> com.android.phone.callsettings.WifiCallActivity
Starting this gets page with a wifi calling toggle
Turn it on, I can select:
"Wi-Fi preferred" or "Mobile network preferred"
Let's try the first.
Turn on flight mode, then re-enable wifi.
Internet still works.
So far so good.

This phone has a Three PAYG SIM in it, apparently:
"Depending on the phone you have, it will either need a simple software
update to switch seamlessly to Wi-Fi Calling, or you'll just need to turn it
on in the settings."

If I dial the number from another phone, I get 'the number you have called
cannot accept this call'. I'm not seeing a wifi calling symbol on the
notifications bar.

So it looks like I can turn it on, but it doesn't do anything.

From reading further, it needs carrier-specific support in the baseband
firmware (which is running on the modem processor, rather than the main ARM
CPU). Since I'm not running the Three firmware, I don't have a Three
baseband image, and thus it doesn't work.

I could probably flash only the Three modem firmware and it might work.
But not something I want to try on this phone.
The phone also isn't listed on their (very short) compatibility list:
http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/android-wifi-calling
so there might not be suitable firmware available if even I were to dig
around in Three firmware images.

To confuse matters, Three have an 'inTouch' app which I suspect is regular
VoIP (like Skype, etc) rather than the baseband-provided Wi-Fi Calling
protocol. But I don't know for sure about that.

Theo

[Roland Perry]

In message <8Cu*2D...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 23:25:12 on Tue,
13 Mar 2018, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

>I could probably flash only the Three modem firmware and it might work.
>But not something I want to try on this phone.
>The phone also isn't listed on their (very short) compatibility list:
>http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/android-wifi-calling

Where they say you should make sure your phone has the latest software
downloaded (esp for the inTouch). Belt and braces, or still a
work-in-progress?

>so there might not be suitable firmware available if even I were to dig
>around in Three firmware images.
>
>To confuse matters, Three have an 'inTouch' app which I suspect is regular
>VoIP (like Skype, etc) rather than the baseband-provided Wi-Fi Calling
>protocol. But I don't know for sure about that.

--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 14/03/18 08:37, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <8Cu*2D...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 23:25:12 on Tue,
> 13 Mar 2018, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>
>> I could probably flash only the Three modem firmware and it might work.
>> But not something I want to try on this phone.
>> The phone also isn't listed on their (very short) compatibility list:
>> http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/android-wifi-calling
>
> Where they say you should make sure your phone has the latest software
> downloaded (esp for the inTouch). Belt and braces, or still a
> work-in-progress?
>

'Three in touch' is discontinued, since its been replaced by generic
wifi calling



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 13/03/18 23:25, Theo wrote:
> From reading further, it needs carrier-specific support in the baseband
> firmware (which is running on the modem processor, rather than the main ARM
> CPU). Since I'm not running the Three firmware, I don't have a Three
> baseband image, and thus it doesn't work.

At last real info rather than hand wavey nonsense

Yes, that actually makes sense.



--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

[Roland Perry]

In message <p8apsb$d9r$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:26:35 on Wed, 14 Mar

2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>On 14/03/18 08:37, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <8Cu*2D...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 23:25:12 on
>>Tue, 13 Mar 2018, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> I could probably flash only the Three modem firmware and it might
>>>work.
>>> But not something I want to try on this phone.
>>> The phone also isn't listed on their (very short) compatibility list:
>>> http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/android-wifi-calling
>> Where they say you should make sure your phone has the latest
>>software downloaded (esp for the inTouch). Belt and braces, or still
>>a work-in-progress?
>
>'Three in touch' is discontinued, since its been replaced by generic
>wifi calling

You can stop waving those hands now.

What's actually happened is that they've re-launched "Three inTouch"
and "Wifi Calling" into one bisexual initiative called, after doubtless
much head-scratching, "Three inTouch Wifi Calling".

If yours is on their rather short list of 3-provided Android phones,
then depending on the firmware in your phone - and they pretty much
insist you upgrade[1] it - then it'll work "native". Otherwise there's
the App.

Meanwhile getting back to the original question:

"Three inTouch(sic)[2] doesn't work while you're abroad, but you
can still use it to call international or premium rate numbers
from the UK."

[1] Also saying "Note that you may need to follow the upgrade steps
more than once, as your device only upgrades one software build
at a time. [Why??]

[2] And the ambiguity resurfaces. Do they mean just the App doesn't
work, or neither scheme. Elsewhere in the FAQ[3] it says: "With
Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling, you can call and text whenever you're
on Wi-Fi in the UK, even if there's no mobile signal."

[3] = Fails-to Answer Questions.
--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its called 'wifi calling'. Three in touch is an app that didnt work very
well. The documentation is out of date


No upgrade is necessary : you just have to buy the phone from them.

It works voice and text.

> Meanwhile getting back to the original question:
>
> "Three inTouch(sic)[2] doesn't work while you're abroad, but you
> can still use it to call international or premium rate numbers
> from the UK."
>
> [1] Also saying "Note that you may need to follow the upgrade steps
> more than once, as your device only upgrades one software build
> at a time. [Why??]
>
> [2] And the ambiguity resurfaces. Do they mean just the App doesn't
> work, or neither scheme. Elsewhere in the FAQ[3] it says: "With
> Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling, you can call and text whenever you're
> on Wi-Fi in the UK, even if there's no mobile signal."
>
> [3] = Fails-to Answer Questions.
>

Exactly. The documentation is pretty hopeless.

I can assure you that all I had to do to enable it to work was change a
setting in android.

There was no 'three in touch' app involved.

That setting was not available on the same model of phone bought from
Argos, with a 3 SIM inserted in it.

I extensively reserached all this - and still got it wrong, because the
documentatons is crap - because my primary reason for buying a
smartphone at all was to get coverage where there is no signal. My
current home.

I chose 3, rather than EE or vodaphone, because I make very very few
phone calls, and have very little use for mioble data at all. And only 3
offered wifi calling on PAYG. I just wanted a phone that worked at home
because people insist on using a mobile phone to call and text you.

Finally, the ony issue I dont know is whether or not ot will be crippled
abroad on 'foreign' wifi.

The balance of opinion is that it will be if they detect you are abroad,
but if you do not ever connect to a foreign mobile operator, they may
not notice.




--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

[Roland Perry]

In message <p8bagd$rul$1...@dont-email.me>, at 14:10:21 on Wed, 14 Mar

2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>>>>> I could probably flash only the Three modem firmware and it might
>>>>> work.
>>>>> But not something I want to try on this phone.
>>>>> The phone also isn't listed on their (very short) compatibility list:
>>>>> http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/android-wifi-calling
>>>> Where they say you should make sure your phone has the latest
>>>> software downloaded (esp for the inTouch). Belt and braces, or still
>>>> a work-in-progress?
>>>
>>> 'Three in touch' is discontinued, since its been replaced by generic
>>> wifi calling
>> You can stop waving those hands now.
>> What's actually happened is that they've re-launched "Three inTouch"
>> and "Wifi Calling" into one bisexual initiative called, after doubtless
>> much head-scratching, "Three inTouch Wifi Calling".
>> If yours is on their rather short list of 3-provided Android phones,
>> then depending on the firmware in your phone - and they pretty much
>> insist you upgrade[1] it - then it'll work "native". Otherwise there's
>> the App.
>

>Its called 'wifi calling'. Three in touch is an app that didnt work
>very well. The documentation is out of date

What their website describes is:

Three inTouch app.
==================

This is our original app, for phones that aren’t yet compatible with
Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling.

Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling.
===========================

Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling is our newest** version, and means you can
call and text when you’re on Wi-Fi, but without the need for
downloading an app.

Three inTouch
=============

We recently launched a newer version of Three inTouch across select
devices, so depending on your phone, you'll either need a simple
software update *** to switch seamlessly **** to Wi-Fi Calling, or
you can download our Three inTouch app. You can check if your phone is
compatible with Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling by following this link.

{That link then showing

Galaxy Note 8, Galaxy S8 Plus, Galaxy S8, Galaxy S7,
Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy A3 2016,
Galaxy A5 2017, Galaxy J3 2017

LG G5 LG G6}

Most of the confusion arises from them selectively adding the words
"Three inTouch" in front of "Wi-Fi Calling" in the above.

Or is your proposition that there's a "newer than newest" (see ** above)
which hasn't yet made it to the website, and which is called plain
"Wi-Fi Calling"?

>No upgrade is necessary : you just have to buy the phone from them.

Given we agree the documentation is poorly drafted, we can however also
agree that it does say you should update the software (see *** above,
and elsewhere) when taking advantage of any of these schemes.

>It works voice and text.
>
>> Meanwhile getting back to the original question:
>> "Three inTouch(sic)[2] doesn't work while you're abroad,
>>but you
>> can still use it to call international or premium rate numbers
>> from the UK."
>> [1] Also saying "Note that you may need to follow the upgrade steps
>> more than once, as your device only upgrades one software build
>> at a time. [Why??]
>> [2] And the ambiguity resurfaces. Do they mean just the App doesn't
>> work, or neither scheme. Elsewhere in the FAQ[3] it says: "With
>> Three inTouch Wi-Fi Calling, you can call and text whenever you're
>> on Wi-Fi in the UK, even if there's no mobile signal."

>> [3] = Fails-to Answer Questions.
>>
>
>Exactly. The documentation is pretty hopeless.
>
>I can assure you that all I had to do to enable it to work was change a
>setting in android.
>
>There was no 'three in touch' app involved.

Then your phone is one with the special 3-firmware (see **** above)

>That setting was not available on the same model of phone bought from
>Argos, with a 3 SIM inserted in it.

And that one wasn't.

--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 14/03/18 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <p8bagd$rul$1...@dont-email.me>, at 14:10:21 on Wed, 14 Mar

>

> Or is your proposition that there's a "newer than newest" (see ** above)
> which hasn't yet made it to the website, and which is called plain
> "Wi-Fi Calling"?
>

Rather that the website is written by marketing wankers, and doesnt
relate to the real world, where 'three in touch ' is being phased out,
and they decided to give what everybody knows is intergarted 'wifi
calling' the 'three in touch' brand name.

Sadly, the phones themselves do not mention 'three in touch' There is
simply a menu option called 'wifi calling;' and you just switch it on

Nowhere does it mention 'three in touch'.




--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

[Theo]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Rather that the website is written by marketing wankers, and doesnt
> relate to the real world, where 'three in touch ' is being phased out,
> and they decided to give what everybody knows is intergarted 'wifi
> calling' the 'three in touch' brand name.
>
> Sadly, the phones themselves do not mention 'three in touch' There is
> simply a menu option called 'wifi calling;' and you just switch it on
>
> Nowhere does it mention 'three in touch'.

As we said:

1. A handful of Android phones *with Three-branded firmware* support native
wifi calling in the baseband.
2. Other phones need the Three inTouch app.

As it says here:

"Although only Three customers can use inTouch, it can be used to call or
text people on any network. Likewise people on any network can call or text
you and it will come through on Three inTouch if you’re connected to it.

Three inTouch is available for Android 4.0 devices and above and iOS 6
devices and above, however it doesn’t work with the HTC One X, Huawei P2,
Sony Xperia J, iPhone 3GS, Huawei Ascend P2 or dual-SIM Android phones. It's
also not available for the Sony Xperia Z1 Compact on Android Lollipop."


I'm not sure why a handful of old phones don't support inTouch, but the
bottom line is almost any phone since 2012 does. Meanwhile:

"Great as Three inTouch is, if you're using a recent handset you might be
able to call and text over Wi-Fi automatically, without the Three inTouch
app. It's the same idea, but you can use your normal SMS and phone apps, so
it's even more seamless.

To get embedded Wi-Fi Calling on Android, you need a Samsung Galaxy S8,
Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus, Samsung Galaxy S7, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge, Samsung
Galaxy S6, Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge, LG G5 or LG G6.

If you have one of those, you bought your phone from Three and you're
running the latest system software then Wi-Fi Calling will work
automatically and your usage will come out of your normal monthly allowance
or credit. You'll know it's working if you see the Wi-Fi Calling symbol
(above)."


The important bit here is "but you can use your normal SMS and phone apps".
In other words, Android says 'I want to make a phone call'. The baseband
says 'OK, let's route that over wifi' - so it's seamless to Android apps.

In constant, inTouch is an app you have to actively select to make a phone
call and have running in the background to receive - like Skype. This will
probably eat battery more rapidly.

If I had a wifi calling enabled phone I'd run a packet trace, but my guess
is that the backends for these two services are different. Ah yes,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network
https://ruckus-www.s3.amazonaws.com/pdf/wp/wp-wifi-calling.pdf
is essentially tunnelled GSM-over-IP (or LTE-over-IP), whereas standard VOIP
is usually SIP-based (and Skype is a proprietary protocol that Microsoft
keep changing).

Ah, it seems inTouch uses the same ports as SIP:
http://www.edugeek.net/forums/internet-related-filtering-firewall/145086-tu-o2-ports.html#post1243843

So, as I understand it, the bottom line is:

Wifi Calling = LTE over IP, in the baseband [*]
Three inTouch = SIP

Completely different ways to achieve a similar end result.

Theo

[*] it is notable that Three's Wifi Calling enabled phones all support LTE,
and probably VoLTE

[The Natural Philosopher]

Or samsung Galaxy J3 in fact, showing once again that 3's website is crap.

>
> If you have one of those, you bought your phone from Three and you're
> running the latest system software then Wi-Fi Calling will work
> automatically and your usage will come out of your normal monthly allowance
> or credit. You'll know it's working if you see the Wi-Fi Calling symbol
> (above)."
>

Correct

>
> The important bit here is "but you can use your normal SMS and phone apps".
> In other words, Android says 'I want to make a phone call'. The baseband
> says 'OK, let's route that over wifi' - so it's seamless to Android apps.
>

Yes. And that is why I picked it. The phone just works when its on wifi
OR when its got signal. I havent yet transitioned between the two on a call.

> In constant,

ITYM 'by contrast'..

inTouch is an app you have to actively select to make a phone
> call and have running in the background to receive - like Skype. This will
> probably eat battery more rapidly.
>

Yes, in Touch is or was, an app.

> If I had a wifi calling enabled phone I'd run a packet trace, but my guess
> is that the backends for these two services are different. Ah yes,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network
> https://ruckus-www.s3.amazonaws.com/pdf/wp/wp-wifi-calling.pdf
> is essentially tunnelled GSM-over-IP (or LTE-over-IP), whereas standard VOIP
> is usually SIP-based (and Skype is a proprietary protocol that Microsoft
> keep changing).
>
> Ah, it seems inTouch uses the same ports as SIP:
> http://www.edugeek.net/forums/internet-related-filtering-firewall/145086-tu-o2-ports.html#post1243843
>
> So, as I understand it, the bottom line is:
>
> Wifi Calling = LTE over IP, in the baseband [*]
> Three inTouch = SIP
>
> Completely different ways to achieve a similar end result.

That is my understanding.

Calling the later *service* "3 in touch wifi calling" is just confusing
and marketing. Essentially I conjecture that the people who write the
blurb have no technical understanding whatsoever.

BTW thanks for filling in the gaps.

WE still havent answered the questions as to whgther the operator

1. Disallows it as a means to avoid high roaming charges (probably)
2. Does so by recording 'last carrier connected to' or
3. Disallows it by IP geolocation, in which case it may be possible to
proxy.
4. Or has some other way, like read the GPS chip?

ANYWAY its an interesting discussion, and it bears better information
that you will get on the mobile operators websites. Which is why I ended
up with an Argos phone that didnt work, and had to buy one from 3 at a
vastly inflated price.

It seems that the availability of phones that do this LTE tunnelling is
quite recent - All later Apple I think do, and I was able to turn it on
for a friends Apple 5 on EE - the EE Hawk does it and the later Samsungs.

As far as I could tell only the major brands support it - EE, Vodafone,
and 3. With EE you have to be in a monthly plan, with vodafone you
needed to be on a business tarriff and only 3 offered it on PAYG.

But its a good way to make calls on the London Underground and I suspect
it is the way of the future as 'micro cells' delivering wifi are
possibly more popular and effective than rolling out more cell towers -
'BT with FON' aims to put a microcell in every household..

>
> Theo
>
> [*] it is notable that Three's Wifi Calling enabled phones all support LTE,
> and probably VoLTE
>

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

[Roland Perry]

In message <p8d9fl$9e4$1...@dont-email.me>, at 08:05:08 on Thu, 1
5 Mar 2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>> To get embedded Wi-Fi Calling on Android, you need a Samsung Galaxy
>>S8, Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus, Samsung Galaxy S7, Samsung Galaxy S7
>>Edge, Samsung Galaxy S6, Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge, LG G5 or LG G6.
>
>Or samsung Galaxy J3 in fact,

Galaxy J3, or Galaxy J3 (2017) [or both...] ?

>showing once again that 3's website is crap.

Elsewhere they have the list:

Galaxy Note 8, Galaxy S8 Plus, Galaxy S8, Galaxy S7,
Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy A3 2016,
Galaxy A5 2017, Galaxy J3 2017

LG G5 LG G6

So the Note 8 has dropped off too, as has the A3 2016 and A5 2017.

One can perhaps explain the Note 8 if Theo's list is based on PAYG
phones because the Note 8 is contract-only. The A3 2016 is no longer
offered, which leaves the A5 2017.

What's the word for this - I know: "a bit of a mish-mash".
--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 15/03/18 08:47, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <p8d9fl$9e4$1...@dont-email.me>, at 08:05:08 on Thu, 1
> 5 Mar 2018, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>
>>> To get embedded Wi-Fi Calling on Android, you need a Samsung Galaxy
>>> S8, Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus, Samsung Galaxy S7, Samsung Galaxy S7
>>> Edge, Samsung Galaxy S6, Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge, LG G5 or LG G6.
>>
>> Or samsung Galaxy J3 in fact,
>
> Galaxy J3, or Galaxy J3 (2017) [or both...] ?
>

J3 2017 for sure. I think not the earlier one

>> showing once again that 3's website is crap.
>
> Elsewhere they have the list:
>
> Galaxy Note 8, Galaxy S8 Plus, Galaxy S8, Galaxy S7,
> Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy A3 2016,
> Galaxy A5 2017, Galaxy J3 2017
>
> LG G5 LG G6
>
> So the Note 8 has dropped off too, as has the A3 2016 and A5 2017.
>
> One can perhaps explain the Note 8 if Theo's list is based on PAYG
> phones because the Note 8 is contract-only. The A3 2016 is no longer
> offered, which leaves the A5 2017.
>
> What's the word for this - I know: "a bit of a mish-mash".
>

A right buggers muudle.

[Theo]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> One can perhaps explain the Note 8 if Theo's list is based on PAYG
> phones because the Note 8 is contract-only. The A3 2016 is no longer
> offered, which leaves the A5 2017.
>
> What's the word for this - I know: "a bit of a mish-mash".

Note that 3g.co.uk is not Three Mobile, it's a random bloke ('UK
Individual') who registered a domain and makes money from affiliate links.
I presume the text cited was previously copied or paraphrased from the Three
site, which is why the list of phones is out of date.

(ie take it with a pinch of salt, but I'm using it for the cues it provides
as to the technical background that I can verify elsewhere, rather than its
completeness as to Three's policy at this moment)

Theo

[The Natural Philosopher]

http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/android-wifi-calling

list the phones that DO support it on android for 3...

And for Apple its ios 10.3x and uprwads or any phone later than iphone 5s.

http://www.three.co.uk/discover/Three_inTouch/ios-wifi-calling



--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[Alan]

On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 08:47:07 -0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> Elsewhere they have the list:
>
> Galaxy Note 8, Galaxy S8 Plus, Galaxy S8, Galaxy S7,
> Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy A3 2016,
> Galaxy A5 2017, Galaxy J3 2017
>
> LG G5 LG G6
>
> So the Note 8 has dropped off too, as has the A3 2016 and A5 2017.
>
> One can perhaps explain the Note 8 if Theo's list is based on PAYG
> phones because the Note 8 is contract-only. The A3 2016 is no longer
> offered, which leaves the A5 2017.
>
> What's the word for this - I know: "a bit of a mish-mash".

Quite. O2 support WiFi calling on J3 2017 (an awful phone), but not A3
2017 (a bit better). But they claim they are including WiFi calling on on
their next firmware release for the A3. Whether that's enabling something
in Android, or something they have to add, I don't know. But it seems
strange to offer it in the cheaper phone and not the better one, if it's
really "already there?"

--
Alan

Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.zfxk4u1p72n0pf@alan>, at 18:47:03 on Thu, 15 Mar 2018,
Alan <es....@ourmailbox.org.uk> remarked:

>On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 08:47:07 -0000, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>
>>

>> Elsewhere they [3's site] have the list:

>>
>> Galaxy Note 8, Galaxy S8 Plus, Galaxy S8, Galaxy S7,
>> Galaxy S7 Edge, Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy A3 2016,
>> Galaxy A5 2017, Galaxy J3 2017
>>
>> LG G5 LG G6
>>
>> So the Note 8 has dropped off too, as has the A3 2016 and A5 2017.
>>
>> One can perhaps explain the Note 8 if Theo's list is based on PAYG
>> phones because the Note 8 is contract-only. The A3 2016 is no longer
>> offered, which leaves the A5 2017.
>>
>> What's the word for this - I know: "a bit of a mish-mash".
>
>Quite. O2 support WiFi calling on J3 2017 (an awful phone),

I don't claim to be up to speed on the nuances of the Galaxy range, but
on a pure "you get what you pay for" basis, it's currently by far the
cheapest phone in 3's catalogue [barring some J3's they are still trying
to shift with PAYG], *and* it has a contract "double data" incentive
too, so clearly isn't selling very well.

>but not A3 2017 (a bit better). But they claim they are including
>WiFi calling on on their next firmware release for the A3. Whether
>that's enabling something in Android, or something they have to add, I
>don't know. But it seems strange to offer it in the cheaper phone and
>not the better one, if it's really "already there?"

Remember, 3 tell you up upgrade the phone to the latest release anyway -
if you want to do any form of calling-over-wifi (I'm deliberately using
a generic expression there).

The best way I can think of describing the concept of "already there" is
to say that numerous Android 4.0+ Samsung drivers clearly exist for
native 3 Wi-fi calling, but they may not:

(a) Work, or have been tested and issued, for every combination of
network and platform,
(b) Be shipped with every capable phone from day 1 [1],
(c) Or necessarily made available, ever, as an update build for every
combination of network and platform.

Some of these will be engineering decisions, some of them marketing; and
some a bit of both : "can we be arsed to build and test, release or
upgrade, this feature for absolutely every phone in the catalogue just
so we can say "we did", and was there even a promise we would?".

Apple make a better job of that, but then they've got relatively
speaking a microscopic number of platforms to cover, compared to even
one maker like Samsung or LG.

[1] It's perfectly possible, for example, that 3 only decided to put the
A3 2017 in their catalogue very late in the day, and had to accept
shipments of a more vanilla version of the firmware to begin with.
--
Roland Perry