Power consumption of a Virgin Media Cable Modem

[JohnT]

Hi all,

I have just got hold of one of those power meters supplied by Electricity
suppliers, and given our house a quick check.

It seems that we have a background power consumption of about 130 watts.
The worst offender seems to be the VM cable modem at 50 watts.
This seems a bit high at the next nearest is the Draytek wireless router
at 15 watts. Phones, radios, heating etc.. account for the rest.

Does anyone else have a power measurement for a VM cable modem ?
We currently have the small blue one, with "Cable modem" written on the
top, and a label on the bottom with "ntl: 250"

Should I be expecting 50 watts, or should I get it changed ?

Thanks
JohnT

[Duncan Wood]

50 sounds high but it's the 3rd highest consumer in my house behind the
electric shower & the fridge freezer.

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

How old the the PSU brick?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[The Luggage]

Given that I can almost cook things on our cable modem, it appears
that 50 W is probably not too far off the mark.

TL

[zulu]

"Duncan Wood" <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote in message
news:op.wmko16dploxewg@duncan-tosh...

No cooker or kettle?


--
zulu
>

[John Burnham]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:17:53 +0100, zulu wrote:

>
> No cooker or kettle?

I believe the original poster was discussing background power consumption
(ie stuff that's always on).
J

[Alan]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:28:27 +0100, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

That's how I read it - but also, cooker and kettle could be gas...

--
Alan

To Reply, use e-s.news AT ourmailbox.org.uk in a sensible manner....

[zulu]

"The Luggage" <alan.p....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:5575ce44-33fd-45ed...@o5g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...

:-))

[zulu]

"Alan" <e-s....@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:op.wmkyf...@sepura800.sepura.co.uk...

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:28:27 +0100, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:17:53 +0100, zulu wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No cooker or kettle?
>>
>> I believe the original poster was discussing background power consumption
>> (ie stuff that's always on).
>> J
>
> That's how I read it - but also, cooker and kettle could be gas...
>

That didn't occur to me! <g>

FWIW I haven't used gas for nearly 50 years.
I haven't even got it connected...

--
zulu

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.wmkyf...@sepura800.sepura.co.uk>, at 13:32:05 on
Mon, 22 Oct 2012, Alan <e-s....@example.invalid> remarked:

>cooker and kettle could be gas...

I've got a gas cooker, and a gas kettle. Which makes the poster at the
local Sainsburys, which says they generate enough electricity from solar
panels to boil every kettle in the town, rather odd. Unless somewhere
there's an electricity to gas conversion plant.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <R9n*67...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 13:28:27 on Mon,
22 Oct 2012, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>> No cooker or kettle?
>
>I believe the original poster was discussing background power consumption
>(ie stuff that's always on).

Someone with an always-on electric shower has a rather unusual
lifestyle.
--
Roland Perry

[JohnT]

We got connected to VM about 4 years ago, when I finally managed to
escape from a BT contract. So, I assume it is about 4 years old.

Regards
JohnT

[Espen H. Koht]

In article <k6326a$1a6$1...@dont-email.me>, JohnT <jo...@example.com>
wrote:

> Does anyone else have a power measurement for a VM cable modem ?
> We currently have the small blue one, with "Cable modem" written on the
> top, and a label on the bottom with "ntl: 250"
>
> Should I be expecting 50 watts, or should I get it changed ?

I have one of these in a box of stuff the cleaners have brought in from
outside properties when vacated and while I don't have it's power supply
to test it with, it says on the back:

Input: +10 VDC 1.0A

So I would say no. It should be drawing less than 10W in reasonable
circumstances, not 50, but that could well be the fault of the adapter
rather than the modem.

[JohnT]

OK, in that case I'll move the power blocks to under my desk, so I get at
least some benefit in the cold weather :-)

[tony sayer]

In article <5575ce44-33fd-45ed...@o5g2000vbr.googlegroups
.com>, The Luggage <alan.p....@googlemail.com> scribeth thus

Just got rid of the ntl 250 blue one, anyone any idea what the newer one
does at all?..

--
Tony Sayer

[Tim Ward]

On 22/10/2012 13:45, Roland Perry wrote:
>
> Someone with an always-on electric shower has a rather unusual lifestyle.

Ours has a switch to turn off the transformer, but maybe not everybody
is in the habit of using such switches.

--
Tim Ward
www.brettward.co.uk

[John Burnham]

Maybe, but as they weren't the original poster I suspect they may not
have carried on talking about purely background consumption.

[Roland Perry]

In message <aekvdn...@mid.individual.net>, at 14:18:47 on Mon, 22
Oct 2012, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> remarked:

>> Someone with an always-on electric shower has a rather unusual lifestyle.
>
>Ours has a switch to turn off the transformer, but maybe not everybody
>is in the habit of using such switches.

If it's one of the house's hungriest appliances when not actually
heating any water, then I'd be afraid, very afraid.
--
Roland Perry

[The Natural Philosopher]

Remember that not all cheap 'usage monitors' are going to be accurate on
a highly weird current waveform that a typical SMPSU will draw.

Also, even if the unit requires 10W to operate, that's no guarantee a
piece of cheap Chinese tatty transformer made from recycled oil tankers
and coins is going to not draw 50W to generate 10W output.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[Theo Markettos]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Also, even if the unit requires 10W to operate, that's no guarantee a
> piece of cheap Chinese tatty transformer made from recycled oil tankers
> and coins is going to not draw 50W to generate 10W output.

A rule of thumb is the 'lightbulb test'. Does it generate roughly the same
amount of heat as a lightbulb of the same wattage and size? For example, a
60W lightbulb will cause pain and/or skin burns if you try and touch it.
It's not emitting more than a few watts of light, RF, sound or mechanical
work so almost all the output is heat. Does the '50W' cable modem/power
supply have the same effect? If it doesn't, you can assume it's not taking
50W.

A larger device can emit more heat without raising its temperature as much,
but here the cable modem is roughly the same size as a lightbulb. From the
temperature I'd guess our ntl:250 takes about 10-15W.

Theo

[Duncan Wood]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:32:05 +0100, Alan <e-s....@example.invalid> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:28:27 +0100, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:17:53 +0100, zulu wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> No cooker or kettle?
>>
>> I believe the original poster was discussing background power
>> consumption
>> (ie stuff that's always on).
>> J
>
> That's how I read it - but also, cooker and kettle could be gas...
>

Cooker is gas, I doubt a gas kettle's efficient enough to be worth it and
the electric ones averaging under 5w per day.

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

Maybe you should look to get a superhub?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[zulu]

"Espen H. Koht" <eh...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:ehk20-74BB70....@nnrp.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

You aren't taking into account the wall wart...
I just measured total power consumption of my (fairly new) VM wireless modem
at 12 watts.
The p/s was quite a bit warmer than the modem....

hmmmmm
12w, on 24/7, is (off the top of my head) about 100 kw/h per annum.

Ouch!

--
zulu

[CWatters]

On 22/10/2012 15:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Remember that not all cheap 'usage monitors' are going to be accurate on
> a highly weird current waveform that a typical SMPSU will draw.
>

I got very strange results with my old desktop/tower PC. Even with the
power switch on the back of the PSU off it was reading 10's of watts. I
wish I'd investigated further at the time.

[Espen Koht]

In article <6rfhs.6988$UJ4....@fx22.am4>,

"zulu" <zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
> "Espen H. Koht" <eh...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:ehk20-74BB70....@nnrp.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> > In article <k6326a$1a6$1...@dont-email.me>, JohnT <jo...@example.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone else have a power measurement for a VM cable modem ?
> >> We currently have the small blue one, with "Cable modem" written on the
> >> top, and a label on the bottom with "ntl: 250"
> >>
> >> Should I be expecting 50 watts, or should I get it changed ?
> >
> > I have one of these in a box of stuff the cleaners have brought in from
> > outside properties when vacated and while I don't have it's power supply
> > to test it with, it says on the back:
> >
> > Input: +10 VDC 1.0A
> >
> > So I would say no. It should be drawing less than 10W in reasonable
> > circumstances, not 50, but that could well be the fault of the adapter
> > rather than the modem.
> >
>
> You aren't taking into account the wall wart...

Eh....name it what you want but that was exactly my point.

[zulu]

"Espen Koht" <eh...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:ehk20-B5667E....@nnrp.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

You said you didn't _have_ the power supply earlier....
I must have misread or misinterpreted.

apologies...

--
zulu!

[Fevric J. Glandules]

zulu wrote:

> 12w, on 24/7, is (off the top of my head) about 100 kw/h per annum.

IIRC the rule of thumb is one pound per year per watt.

Now about these meters - where's a good place to blag / borrow one?

[zulu]

"Fevric J. Glandules" <f...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:k661et$l29$1...@dont-email.me...

I bought mine from Maplins....


--
zulu

[RobertL]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 1:51:18 PM UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
> ...poster at the local Sainsburys, which says they generate enough electricity from solar panels to boil every kettle in the town,

Does it say how often they can boil them? Once a year? Once a decade? Once a day?

Robert

[Roland Perry]

In message <75d9d4ef-62cc-4e2f...@googlegroups.com>, at
06:51:22 on Tue, 23 Oct 2012, RobertL <rober...@yahoo.com> remarked:

>> ...poster at the local Sainsburys, which says they generate enough electricity from solar panels to boil every kettle in the town,
>
>Does it say how often they can boil them? Once a year? Once a decade? Once a day?

The implication is "whenever they are actually boiled" (on average of
course, a dull morning at 8am isn't going meet the instantaneous
demand).
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <06xhs.51687$Ol2....@fx25.am4>, at 14:39:07 on Tue, 23 Oct
2012, zulu <zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> remarked:

>I bought mine from Maplins....

Hi di hi.

I have a meter that fits on an individual 13amp socket from there; but
also one that clips on the cables at the meter, which I think came from
eBay.
--
Roland Perry

[Douglas de Lacey]

Well I have a superhub, but the wireless coverage is not brilliant.
Since my previous hub is now redundant but can act as a repeater I have
tried to set it up as such, but the superhub just won't talk to it. The
instructions on VM's website couldn't be less helpful: they just say
`You might want to think about adding a wireless repeater to your
network, or using the Super Hub’s Modem Mode to improve coverage in
hard-to-reach parts of your house'. Has anyone done this successfully,
and am I missing an obvious trick?

Thanks,
Douglas de Lacey

[tony sayer]

In article <DKz*IV...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Douglas de Lacey
<de...@cam.ac.uk> scribeth thus

Yes it can be set to modem mode it's in the admin setup page, and we do
use it to feed a proper router and onwards to a brace of wireless points
that do the biz;)>..

>
>Thanks,
>Douglas de Lacey

--
Tony Sayer

[zulu]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SVNtXKbf...@perry.co.uk...

*Plug m mains power & energy meter*

http://www.maplin.co.uk/plug-in-mains-power-and-energy-monitor-38343

I think I paid a tenner for it a while back <I could be wrong!>, but they're
twice that mow.


--
zulu

[Fevric J. Glandules]

zulu wrote:

> I think I paid a tenner for it a while back <I could be wrong!>, but they're
> twice that mow.

Yes, but where's the best place to blag / borrow one?

[Theo Markettos]

Fevric J. Glandules <f...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Yes, but where's the best place to blag / borrow one?

Cambridge Central Library:

http://www.transitioncambridge.org/thewiki/ttwiki/pmwiki.php?n=TTEnergy.HomePage

Theo

[Douglas de Lacey]

Are you saying that when the instructions say `adding a wireless
repeater to your network, OR using the Super Hub’s Modem Mode' they
actually mean `adding a wireless repeater to your network, AND using the
Super Hub’s Modem Mode'?

Douglas de Lacey

[tony sayer]

In article <wif*hj...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Douglas de Lacey

Well here it went...



/-> Wireless point
VM Modem -> Draytek router -> Network switch-
\-> Wireless point


So if the question was do we use the wireless in the VM unit then No.

I've not tried using it in the VM router mode and another wireless point
but I expect it could work...



--
Tony Sayer

[Roland Perry]

In message <3AN+eEQI...@bancom.co.uk>, at 09:09:44 on Wed, 24 Oct
2012, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:

>
> /-> Wireless point
>VM Modem -> Draytek router -> Network switch-
> \-> Wireless point
>
>
>So if the question was do we use the wireless in the VM unit then No.
>
>I've not tried using it in the VM router mode and another wireless point
>but I expect it could work...

My experience (not with VM) of trying to get a second wireless point to
piggy-back off the signal from the first, is that they use proprietary
protocols and need to be designed to be compatible with each other.

My current setup is very simple:

BE modem/router --|-> Network switch --|-> Second WP
with integral \-> TV | -> Wired...
WP and hub \-> ... PCs
--
Roland Perry

[Fevric J. Glandules]

Amazing. Who'd a thunk they'd do something sensible.

Sadly, the link in that page to the library page doesn't work.

[John Burnham]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:32:13 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:


> My experience (not with VM) of trying to get a second wireless point to
> piggy-back off the signal from the first, is that they use proprietary
> protocols and need to be designed to be compatible with each other.
>

Really ? I've found it pretty damned trivial to use wireless access
points in bridging mode to do what you seem to be talking about.
J

[Roland Perry]

In message <93m*ZT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 09:58:53 on Wed,
24 Oct 2012, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>> My experience (not with VM) of trying to get a second wireless point to
>> piggy-back off the signal from the first, is that they use proprietary
>> protocols and need to be designed to be compatible with each other.
>
>Really ? I've found it pretty damned trivial to use wireless access
>points in bridging mode to do what you seem to be talking about.

Doesn't a bridge just end up with cable-connections to the remote PCs? A
repeater listens to the master wifi point, then re-broadcasts as a slave
wifi point.

Maybe today's repeaters are more promiscuous, but when I last tried it
(with a Netgear hotspot that allegedly had repeating built in) it was
designed to only work with a suitably configured other Netgear hotspot.
--
Roland Perry

[Tim Ward]

On 24/10/2012 10:16, Roland Perry wrote:
>
> Maybe today's repeaters are more promiscuous, but when I last tried it
> (with a Netgear hotspot that allegedly had repeating built in) it was
> designed to only work with a suitably configured other Netgear hotspot.

I've got a TP-LINK thingy which claims to be able to work in every mode
I'd ever heard of plus a few others.

--
Tim Ward
www.brettward.co.uk

[John Burnham]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:16:18 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

> Doesn't a bridge just end up with cable-connections to the remote PCs? A
> repeater listens to the master wifi point, then re-broadcasts as a slave
> wifi point.

Sorta, but the connection between the two points uses the same principle
- it's all done over IEEE 802.11 so to claim "proprietary protocols" are
used is misleading. "Repeating" is merely a specific type of "bridging" -
bridging just being the linking together of what would overwise be two
physically separate networks.
And then there's mesh networking....

>
> Maybe today's repeaters are more promiscuous, but when I last tried it
> (with a Netgear hotspot that allegedly had repeating built in) it was
> designed to only work with a suitably configured other Netgear hotspot.

Maybe, but I've never had any issues with the kit I've tried it with. It
might just be lies put in place by your typical salesforce - "Oh, it
won't work with anything other than Netgear - you need to buy more
Netgear kit."

[Espen Koht]

In article <LjZLavCN...@perry.co.uk>,

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <3AN+eEQI...@bancom.co.uk>, at 09:09:44 on Wed, 24 Oct
> 2012, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
> >
> > /-> Wireless point
> >VM Modem -> Draytek router -> Network switch-
> > \-> Wireless point
> >
> >
> >So if the question was do we use the wireless in the VM unit then No.
> >
> >I've not tried using it in the VM router mode and another wireless point
> >but I expect it could work...
>
> My experience (not with VM) of trying to get a second wireless point to
> piggy-back off the signal from the first, is that they use proprietary
> protocols and need to be designed to be compatible with each other.

Broadly speaking those who describe their repeater functionality as
"WDS" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system> are
mostly compatible with each other (to the extent that you can now buy
'generic' WDS repeaters). Older gear which could do similar things
proprietarily may have described it differently and often only work
between certain of their own devices.

[Roland Perry]

In message <93m*p+...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 11:09:01 on Wed,

24 Oct 2012, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>> Maybe today's repeaters are more promiscuous, but when I last tried it
>> (with a Netgear hotspot that allegedly had repeating built in) it was
>> designed to only work with a suitably configured other Netgear hotspot.
>
>Maybe, but I've never had any issues with the kit I've tried it with. It
>might just be lies put in place by your typical salesforce - "Oh, it
>won't work with anything other than Netgear - you need to buy more
>Netgear kit."

The lies had been implemented by their engineers.
--
Roland Perry

[Fevric J. Glandules]

John Burnham wrote:

> Maybe, but I've never had any issues with the kit I've tried it with. It
> might just be lies put in place by your typical salesforce - "Oh, it
> won't work with anything other than Netgear - you need to buy more
> Netgear kit."

As you say it's all 802.11 (apart from when it isn't, when someone's
jumped the gun and released a higher speed widget "early") so it should
interoperate. OTOH it's not unusual at all for chipsets not to want
to talk to other chipsets except in the most common circumstances,
i.e. the ones they've been tested against.

[Fevric J. Glandules]

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:

>>> Yes, but where's the best place to blag / borrow one?

Meter now blagged.

Digital radio draws 4W in standby, FFS.

Etc.

[Fevric J. Glandules]

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:

> Digital radio draws 4W in standby, FFS.

Should have waited a bit...

The ntl:250 modem that we've been talking about seems to take 6W.
I've got a netgear wifi router: 5W. And a somewhat older Linksys
non-wifi router (the firmware is from 2002): 7W.

[Rupert Moss-Eccardt]

Last time I looked at WDS it didn't work with WPA so you're stuck with WEP

[Alan Braggins]

In article <aeqs71...@mid.individual.net>, Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:
>Espen Koht wrote:

>> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> My experience (not with VM) of trying to get a second wireless point to
>>> piggy-back off the signal from the first, is that they use proprietary
>>> protocols and need to be designed to be compatible with each other.
>>
>> Broadly speaking those who describe their repeater functionality as
>> "WDS" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system> are
>> mostly compatible with each other (to the extent that you can now buy

>> 'generic' WDS repeaters). [...]

>
>Last time I looked at WDS it didn't work with WPA so you're stuck with WEP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system#Technical says
some routers support WDS with WPA to some extent. "However, this mode may
not be compatible with other units running stock or alternate firmware."
Which is where we came in...

[JohnT]

Oh , so my 50W sounds broken then.
I'll have to get an upgrade from VM

Thanks
JohnT

[Theo Markettos]

JohnT <jo...@example.com> wrote:
> Oh , so my 50W sounds broken then.
> I'll have to get an upgrade from VM

Is it finger-sizzling hot? If not, sounds more like the meter is misreading
to me...

Theo

[Espen Koht]

In article <slrnk8gld...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,

There is a whole new category of devices which have come on to the
market in the past 9 months and usually go by the generic term "Wireless
Range Extender". They all seem to support WDS with WPA/WPA2-PSK and if
there were severe compatibility issues I doubt they would be getting the
broadly favourable reviews they seem to be getting from average users.

[Paul Rudin]

I just have a second wireless router upstairs which is connected via a
cable to the superhub. So there are two different wifi networks in the
house.

[JohnT]

There are two devices emitting heat:
The wall-wart, and the modem.
Both have a lot more surface area than your average 25 watt bulb, and
both are quite warm to touch, but not hot.
So, I'm thinking - are they as hot as a 5W bulb might be ?
I'm unsure either way, so the meter could well be correct.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I would day the meter us almost certainly NOT correct. Especially if
reading the input to an SMPSU.

You need a deal of computation at pretty high speed to accurately
integrate V I products.

Its a lot easier to read the average AC current and multiply by the
average AC voltage.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[Fevric J. Glandules]

JohnT wrote:

> There are two devices emitting heat:
> The wall-wart, and the modem.
> Both have a lot more surface area than your average 25 watt bulb, and
> both are quite warm to touch, but not hot.

Same here. If they were kicking out 25W each, they would be *hot*.

[Fevric J. Glandules]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I would day the meter us almost certainly NOT correct. Especially if
> reading the input to an SMPSU.

IIRC the VA reading when I was doing the modems and routers
was *way* higher (a factor, but not a magnitude) than the W.