Grantchester Meadows river closure

[Al Grant]

King's College are planning to remove access to the river from
Grantchester Meadows, to stop people swimming, canoeing,
punting to the pubs etc. There is a petition here:

https://www.change.org/p/king-s-college-cambridge-keep-access-to-the-river-at-grantchester-meadows-open-to-all

[Alan]

While I totally disagree with what they are doing, I don't think they are
stopping canoeing or punting. Only landing or launching on their land.
So hiring a punt and tootling upstream and back wouldn't be stopped.

Whether there are any stretches up near Grantchester to land and reach a
pub not owned by Kings, I don't know though.

I'm not really convinced of their argument that it is to protect the
footpath either. I would understand if it was to protect the banks, but
that doesn't seem to be their reason.

--
Alan

Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Roland Perry]

In message <4eefd323-9120-4cd6...@googlegroups.com>, at
07:23:34 on Thu, 1 Jul 2021, Al Grant <algra...@gmail.com> remarked:

Are they proposing o erect a fence all along the river bank, and even if
they did (wouldn't it perhaps require planning permission) what's to
stop people still punting long the river.

I very much doubt many people manhandle a punt into Grantchester Meadows
and attempt to launch it here.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.05uwmv08l776by@alan>, at 15:45:57 on Thu, 1 Jul 2021,
Alan <eternal....@ourmailbox.org.uk> remarked:

>On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 15:23:34 +0100, Al Grant <algra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> King's College are planning to remove access to the river from
>> Grantchester Meadows, to stop people swimming, canoeing,
>> punting to the pubs etc. There is a petition here:
>>
>>
>>https://www.change.org/p/king-s-college-cambridge-keep-access-to-the-ri
>>ver-at-grantchester-meadows-open-to-all
>
>While I totally disagree with what they are doing, I don't think they
>are stopping canoeing or punting. Only landing or launching on their
>land. So hiring a punt and tootling upstream and back wouldn't be
>stopped.
>
>Whether there are any stretches up near Grantchester to land and reach
>a pub not owned by Kings, I don't know though.

Do they own either of the almost-riverside pubs in Grantchester?

The bigger one went rather upmarket "gastro" a few years ago, and the
smaller went broke I think. Covid aside, is it ever expected to reopen.

In any event, one does't so much "land" a punt near them, as moor it.

>I'm not really convinced of their argument that it is to protect the
>footpath either. I would understand if it was to protect the banks,
>but that doesn't seem to be their reason.
>

--

Roland Perry

[Alan]

On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 16:59:07 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

> In message <4eefd323-9120-4cd6...@googlegroups.com>, at
> 07:23:34 on Thu, 1 Jul 2021, Al Grant <algra...@gmail.com> remarked:
>> King's College are planning to remove access to the river from
>> Grantchester Meadows, to stop people swimming, canoeing,
>> punting to the pubs etc. There is a petition here:
>>
>> https://www.change.org/p/king-s-college-cambridge-keep-access-to-the-riv
>> er-at-grantchester-meadows-open-to-all
>
> Are they proposing o erect a fence all along the river bank,

They're using signs and Savilles will patrol the land!!!

> and even if they did (wouldn't it perhaps require planning permission)
> what's to stop people still punting long the river.

They could stop punting on their side of the river. In England, the bank
owner owns the river bed to an imaginary centre line. So the punt pole
couldn't hit the bottom.

The water is usually owned by the Crown, so I guess nothing to stop
swimming and canoeing, as long as they don't land.

>
> I very much doubt many people manhandle a punt into Grantchester Meadows
> and attempt to launch it here.

Canoes and "rubber" boats are quite common.

[Mark Goodge]

On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:10:29 +0100, Alan
<eternal....@ourmailbox.org.uk> wrote:
>
>In England, the bank
>owner owns the river bed to an imaginary centre line. So the punt pole
>couldn't hit the bottom.

That's often the case, but not necessarily so, and viewing the actual
land registry documents may be necessary to establish that. But, even
so, if there are separate navigation rights, then the fact that a punt
is propelled by a pole which touches the riverbed isn't relevent.

>The water is usually owned by the Crown, so I guess nothing to stop
>swimming and canoeing, as long as they don't land.

What matters for swimming and canoeing are the navigation rights.

Mark

[Mark Goodge]

On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:14:59 +0100, Mark Goodge
<use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:10:29 +0100, Alan
><eternal....@ourmailbox.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>In England, the bank
>>owner owns the river bed to an imaginary centre line. So the punt pole
>>couldn't hit the bottom.
>
>That's often the case, but not necessarily so, and viewing the actual
>land registry documents may be necessary to establish that.

I've just checked, and, actually it isn't the case here. For most of its
length, the Cam appears to be a separate parcel of land, with its
borders being the banks on either side.

Mark

[Alan]

On Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:39:12 +0100, Mark Goodge

Thought it might be something like that here. Thanks for checking.

[Tim Ward]

On 01/07/2021 18:14, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
> What matters for swimming and canoeing are the navigation rights.

Which are what up there? - the Conservators' jurisdiction stops at the
Mill Pond.

--
Tim Ward - 07801 703 600
www.brettward.co.uk

[Mark Goodge]

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 20:13:31 +0100, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:

>On 01/07/2021 18:14, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>
>> What matters for swimming and canoeing are the navigation rights.
>
>Which are what up there? - the Conservators' jurisdiction stops at the
>Mill Pond.

That's a very good question. As a general rule, the riparian owners also
own the navigation rights, unless explicitly vested in another body. But
custom and practice also matter. Although there's no direct waterborne
equivalent to a public right of way on land, if a river has,
traditionally, been used for navigation then a right of use may be
deemed to have arisen, and extinguishing that right may be difficult.

Mark

[The Natural Philosopher]

I would have thought that there is an established right of way along
there at least.

Do they propose fencing the footpath off?

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

[Alan]

On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 05:00:01 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 01/07/2021 15:23, Al Grant wrote:
>> King's College are planning to remove access to the river from
>> Grantchester Meadows, to stop people swimming, canoeing,
>> punting to the pubs etc. There is a petition here:
>>
>> https://www.change.org/p/king-s-college-cambridge-keep-access-to-the-river-at-grantchester-meadows-open-to-all
>>
> I would have thought that there is an established right of way along
> there at least.
>

The only intend preventing access to and from the river, not along the
footpath.

> Do they propose fencing the footpath off?
>

No. They will used signs, (
<https://www.change.org/p/king-s-college-cambridge-keep-access-to-the-river-at-grantchester-meadows-open-to-all/u/29283068>
) and patrols by Savilles. Although they don't say whether those patrols
will be armed or not :-)