Parking at Newmarket Road Tesco
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
Newmarket Road has found people overusing the parking spaces and have
had to introduce restrictions (or so they say).
Apparently there isn't such a problem after all, as this planning
application indicates:
06/0885/FUL Tesco, Cheddars Lane
Change of use of parking spaces to hand car valeting operation including
siting of cabin to hose (sic!) water recycling system and a canopy.
Paul Oldham
> You may recall that there has been some postings about how Tesco at
> Newmarket Road has found people overusing the parking spaces and have
> had to introduce restrictions (or so they say).
Indeed, despite that car park never being full.
> Apparently there isn't such a problem after all, as this planning
> application indicates:
> 06/0885/FUL Tesco, Cheddars Lane
> Change of use of parking spaces to hand car valeting operation including
> siting of cabin to hose (sic!) water recycling system and a canopy.
Yup. Same application in for Milton Tesco. They're doing this elsewhere
too and some sites are already operational (at least one without
planning permission first, allegedly).
--
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"Don't squat with your spurs on"
Roland Perry
30 Aug 2006, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <r.moss-...@computer.org> remarked:
How does one follow from the other? If there were no restrictions
perhaps the car park would overflow. With some restrictions, it may be
comfortably full, but with a small amount of spare room available for
this valeting operation (what percentage of the car park is involved)?
--
Roland Perry
dot cix dot co dot uk
Oldham) wrote:
>
> Yup. Same application in for Milton Tesco. They're doing this elsewhere
> too and some sites are already operational (at least one without
> planning permission first, allegedly).
There's been one at Bar Hill for a while, though it seemed to have
disappeared last time I was there. Possibly that was the one without PP.
Matthew Vernon
> Yup. Same application in for Milton Tesco. They're doing this
> elsewhere too and some sites are already operational (at least one
> without planning permission first, allegedly).
Barf Hill Tesco has had a car-cleaning thing for a while now.
Matthew
--
* Emperor reads cam.misc
* antinomy/#chiark puts some clothes on
<Emperor> that's our lives in a nutshell, isn't it?
Pete
> In message <EkcJg.34$Mh2...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>, at 08:51:48 on Wed,
> 30 Aug 2006, Rupert Moss-Eccardt <r.moss-...@computer.org> remarked:
>> application indicates:
>> 06/0885/FUL Tesco, Cheddars Lane
>> Change of use of parking spaces to hand car valeting operation
>> including siting of cabin to hose (sic!) water recycling system and a
>> canopy.
>
> How does one follow from the other? If there were no restrictions
> perhaps the car park would overflow. With some restrictions, it may be
> comfortably full, but with a small amount of spare room available for
> this valeting operation (what percentage of the car park is involved)?
At Fulbourn Tescos I think the carwash/valet takes up about 8 spaces (1
for the cabin, 1-2 for washing a car, 5 or so for cars waiting/finished).
I don't have a good estimate for the number of spaces at Newmarket Road
so I can't give a percentage.
Cheers, Pete
Chris Newton
> You may recall that there has been some postings about how Tesco at
> Newmarket Road has found people overusing the parking spaces and have
> had to introduce restrictions (or so they say).
I never believed that for an instant, having been in there at all times
of day and even on busy days, yet never seen the car park even close to
full. The entrance/exit road blocks up way before they'd be able to fill
all the available spaces. And this still applies on heavy traffic days
when there are football matches, parents delivering their kids to
university, etc.
Even if it were true, I still don't like a business that adds to our
surveillance society unnecessarily, and which threatens to penalise its
own customers for spending too long in its store. There's also the issue
of parking for other places on Newmarket Road that we've discussed
before: regardless of planning permission, I question the ethics of a
big business moving into an area and messing up the whole local
transport system, and then objecting to locals "borrowing" its car park
as an alternative when it does that big business no harm.
I was going to write to the local store manager to express my anger at
this move, particularly given the low visibility of notices and the fact
that I didn't believe their excuse for an instant. However, they seemed
to take down all the notices that were up a few days before the system
was due to go in, and then the system didn't appear to be installed on
the date previously advertised, so I figured they'd heard it from others
as well and had a change of heart.
Since the system went in, I won't park in their car park any longer. If
that means I don't shop there because it's more convenient to shop
somewhere else then so be it. Given that I used to buy things like DVDs
and computer games from Tesco as well as groceries, I reckon that move
cost them £100+ per week. It's probably a blip to them, but it makes me
feel better.
Cheers,
Chris
Roland Perry
Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Pete <n...@spam.invalid> remarked:
>I don't have a good estimate for the number of spaces at Newmarket Road
>so I can't give a percentage.
You can count them from the birds eye view at http://local.live.com.
It's more or less 17 rows of an average of 30 cars a row: 510.
--
Roland Perry
Nick Wagg
news:pp1gs3-...@clive.the-hug.org...
> On 30/08/06 09:51 Rupert Moss-Eccardt wrote:
>
>> You may recall that there has been some postings about how Tesco at
>> Newmarket Road has found people overusing the parking spaces and have had
>> to introduce restrictions (or so they say).
>
> Indeed, despite that car park never being full.
>
>> Apparently there isn't such a problem after all, as this planning
>> application indicates:
>> 06/0885/FUL Tesco, Cheddars Lane
>> Change of use of parking spaces to hand car valeting operation including
>> siting of cabin to hose (sic!) water recycling system and a canopy.
>
> Yup. Same application in for Milton Tesco. They're doing this elsewhere
> too and some sites are already operational (at least one without planning
> permission first, allegedly).
At Bar Hill, they have introduced a time restriction to discourage
people from using the car park and catching the bus into town.
Anne Rogers
> the car park would overflow. With some restrictions, it may be comfortably
> full, but with a small amount of spare room available for this valeting
> operation (what percentage of the car park is involved)?
I agree that one does not necessarily follow from the other, but the case
here seems to be that there was never a problem to start off with, I
occasionaly parked at Tescos and walked into town, and would park at the
corner near the path, even on a Saturday afternoon, the car park was never
full and there were plenty of places nearer to the store entrance. I don't
recall ever doing it on a weekday, so maybe that was when the problem was.
Anne
Theo Markettos
> Since the system went in, I won't park in their car park any longer. If
> that means I don't shop there because it's more convenient to shop
> somewhere else then so be it. Given that I used to buy things like DVDs
> and computer games from Tesco as well as groceries, I reckon that move
> feel better.
What's the system? I was under the impression that most supermarkets have a
two-hour restriction on their parking spaces, with usually a 25 or 50 quid
fine threatened for overstay. Waitrose at least do: I've seen parking
attendants but wouldn't know how they enforce it (and is the fine legal?).
Do Tesco have more restrictive hours, or a more devious sytem? I think even
the most ardent shopaholic would have difficulty spending two hours in Tesco
- it's not terribly exciting after all...
Theo
RealMart
Theo Markettos wrote:
> What's the system?
They have cameras that record your car numberplate as you arrive at the
car park, and then (apparently) automatically send you a £70 fine if
you stay for more than the allowed time.
> I think even the most ardent shopaholic would have difficulty spending two hours in Tesco
There must be a couple of dozen other "retail outlets" within a couple
of minutes walk of the Newmarket Road Tescos; it would be nice to think
that one could park at Tescos and then take a leisurley stroll round
the other shops before returning to Tescos to do the big weekly food
shop and then head for home. The alternative is to shuttle the car
between various different car parks on Newmarket Road, further clogging
already overloaded junctions.
Or just to park somewhere else in the first place...
RealMart
Theo Markettos wrote:
> What's the system?
They have cameras that record your car numberplate as you arrive at the
car park, and then (apparently) automatically send you a £70 fine if
you stay for more than the allowed time.
> I think even the most ardent shopaholic would have difficulty spending two hours in Tesco
There must be a couple of dozen other "retail outlets" within a couple
Roland Perry
30 Aug 2006, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
remarked:
>What's the system? I was under the impression that most supermarkets have a
>two-hour restriction on their parking spaces, with usually a 25 or 50 quid
>fine threatened for overstay. Waitrose at least do: I've seen parking
>attendants but wouldn't know how they enforce it (and is the fine legal?).
It's a breach of contract thing. You agree, by parking there, that if
you exceed a certain stay that they can charge you. It's not a "fine" in
the normal legal sense.
--
Roland Perry
John Hall
news:1156950659.5...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Theo Markettos wrote:
> > What's the system?
> They have cameras that record your car numberplate as you arrive at the
> car park, and then (apparently) automatically send you a £70 fine if
> you stay for more than the allowed time.
and the allowed time is three hours.
cheers,
John
Paul Oldham
> Theo Markettos wrote:
>> What's the system?
>
> They have cameras that record your car numberplate as you arrive at the
> car park, and then (apparently) automatically send you a £70 fine if
> you stay for more than the allowed time.
They do. A friend of mine has had one. They binned it.
> Or just to park somewhere else in the first place...
Or put something over your number plate when you leave of you stay more
than the allotted time. They're bound to miss some car plates anyway
where cars leave close together so if they don't see you leave they'll
just drop the record of your entry from the database after a day or so.
--
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"Everyone seems normal until you get to know them"
Kevin Symonds
>There must be a couple of dozen other "retail outlets" within a couple of
>minutes walk of the Newmarket Road Tescos; it would be nice to think that
>one could park at Tescos and then take a leisurley stroll round the other
>shops before returning to Tescos to do the big weekly food shop and then
>head for home. The alternative is to shuttle the car
between various different car parks on Newmarket Road, further clogging
already overloaded junctions.<
None of which is Tesco's responsibility. That's up to the planners who
allowed such a system to exist.
I doubt Tescos actually want you to walk over to Currys and buy electricals
from them when you could be buying your toasters and tv's from them (less
likely in Newmarket Road than Bar Hill but you know what I mean) so no skin
off their nose.
I don't think the parking is much of a problem generally though and Tescos
are just covering their backs for those few busy periods of the year when
they might need to control things.
Kevin
Chris Newton
> "RealMart"
>> There must be a couple of dozen other "retail outlets" within a
>> couple of minutes walk of the Newmarket Road Tescos; it would be
>> nice to think that one could park at Tescos and then take a
>> leisurley stroll round the other shops before returning to Tescos
>> to do the big weekly food shop and then head for home. The
>> alternative is to shuttle the car between various different car
>> parks on Newmarket Road, further clogging already overloaded
>> junctions.
>
> None of which is Tesco's responsibility. That's up to the planners who
> allowed such a system to exist.
Leaving aside the issues of whether the planners had the appropriate say
in the Newmarket Road fiasco, and whether they could effectively enforce
their wishes against Tesco's corporate lawyers anyway, it becomes
Tesco's problem when people like me refuse to shop there any more
because we find their policy unethical. If more than a handful of people
took a stand, it would soon become apparent that such antisocial
policies are not cost-effective, and if there's one thing big business
understands, it's cost-effectiveness. Perhaps they have, and the
corporate bean-counters are too stupid/ill-informed to notice the trend.
> I doubt Tescos actually want you to walk over to Currys and buy
> electricals from them when you could be buying your toasters and tv's
> from them (less likely in Newmarket Road than Bar Hill but you know
> what I mean) so no skin off their nose.
Ironically, I went to the shops on the other side of Newmarket Road
(which don't have numberplate-scanning gear on their car parks) at the
weekend. I then drove round to Sainsbury's to do my household shopping
for the next few days. No skin off my nose...
> I don't think the parking is much of a problem generally though and
> Tescos are just covering their backs for those few busy periods of
> the year when they might need to control things.
There are, IME, no such busy periods. And prior to this policy coming
in, I shopped there from the day they opened, all year round, and even
on a few occasions as early as they were open or just before they closed.
Cheers,
Chris
Mark T.B. Carroll
(snip)
> I don't think the parking is much of a problem generally though and Tescos
> are just covering their backs for those few busy periods of the year when
> they might need to control things.
Then they don't have to have the system working except sometimes.
It's quite easy to do it for some days and not others, surely?
People might then even have more sympathy.
-- Mark
Bush
>
> Ironically, I went to the shops on the other side of Newmarket Road
> (which don't have numberplate-scanning gear on their car parks) at the
> weekend. I then drove round to Sainsbury's to do my household shopping
> for the next few days.
Did you
- pay by credit card?
- use your Nectar card?
I'm getting fed up with invasions into my privacy, mine got cut up and
binned. And, although I haven't given up my driving licence yet, I'm
using a bike to get around most places so as to avoid having my
movements being tracked by ANPRs.
Am I paranoid?
Kevin Symonds
> ... it becomes Tesco's problem when people like me refuse to shop there
Well I very much doubt that they care if a small number of people don't like
it. I can't imagine that something that won't affect many people is going to
be enough of a problem. Theres bigger problems that people can be
anti-Tescos for than not being able to park in their car parks and then shop
elsewhere that is bound to be higher up on their list of worries.
Theres probably more people who'd change their shopping pattern to
Sainsburys because their toiletroll is 10p cheaper or the petrol is a penny
cheaper a litre!
It's not going to affect most people anyway, 3 hours is enough to do your
shopping there, walk over to Currys etc and get back anyway! And if it's a
matter of civil liberties, you're too late.
> There are, IME, no such busy periods.<
There are some. I've been driven in there and it's been full and people are
queuing for a space and I've walked there and seen the same. Admittedly I
doubt thats true very often (most likely around Christmas etc) but there are
definately some times when they are full. This being even more true in Bar
Hill.
I've been at Newmarket Road Tescos at 11 in the morning on a weekday in
school-term time and it's been fairly full which surprised me.
The Sainsburys in Horsham where my friend lives has a good system.
The Sainsburys there is next to the city centre, there is the big car park
at the shopping centre but it's not really
You go into the car park. You get a ticket on the way in. If the car park is
busy they have the barriers down on the way out and you have to give them
the ticket along with a recipt from Sainsurys showing that you have spent
over £10. If you don't then you have to pay like £30 to get out of the car
park.
This is on big signs and it's something you have to accept if you want to
park in their carpark and not use their store.
Really though as if you're parking there you're going to shop there it's not
a problem (if you don't want to park there you'd park in the shopping centre
car park and spent £1 something rather than 'free' parking) but that is one
way of solving the problem. Not a great way of doing it and well over the
top for Cambridge but it's one solution..
Kevin
Kevin Symonds
"Mark T.B. Carroll"
> Then they don't have to have the system working except sometimes. It's
> quite easy to do it for some days and not others, surely? People might
> then even have more sympathy.<
Well I doubt many people are that bothered anyway. I can see why you say
that, but then you'd only get people fined who would say 'but it was ok
yesterday, I've never seen that before' and that would probably cause more
PR problems than just implementing it generally when you get some old lady
in a wheelchair holding a £70 fine from Tescos on the front page of the CEN.
I don't see why it's a problem though, people seem to think that they have
the right to park in Tesco's carpark with no rules.
It's stupid you can't easily shop on Newmarket Road but that's not
singularly Tesco's fault!
Personally I prefer Morrisons anyway as the foods better and fresher, they
have more BOGOFFS and things like fennerl and raisin bread :)
Kevin
Paul
news:4156.44f5...@mail.cambridgetechgroup.com...
I'd like to put in a word for Tescos here. They have the camera system here
at the Tring Road Aylesbury store and I did indeed park there one Saturday
morning for over three hours when I couldn't find a space on returning to
the street where I live nearby. The letter that arrived thanks to the
company they use tracing my vehicle ownership was a very polite information
letter informing me of the times I'd parked and left and that future parking
beyond that period would incur a £70 fine.
I thought it was well handled since they could have imposed the fine in the
first instance.
Paul
Chris Newton
> "Chris Newton"
>> ... it becomes Tesco's problem when people like me refuse to shop there
>> any more because we find their policy unethical.<
>
> Well I very much doubt that they care if a small number of people don't like
> it.
Well, that's their choice, just as it's my choice to spend several
thousand pounds per year somewhere else.
I have a simple policy when it comes to shops (and tradesmen for that
matter): I will not support those that I find to be behaving
inappropriately or providing a poor service, while I can and do
recommend to others those that I find to provide good products or services.
> It's not going to affect most people anyway, 3 hours is enough to do your
> shopping there, walk over to Currys etc and get back anyway! And if it's a
> matter of civil liberties, you're too late.
It's never too late to fight for civil liberties. As Burke probably
never said, all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
men to do nothing.
Cheers,
Chris
Paul Oldham
> I'd like to put in a word for Tescos here. They have the camera system here
> at the Tring Road Aylesbury store and I did indeed park there one Saturday
> morning for over three hours when I couldn't find a space on returning to
> the street where I live nearby. The letter that arrived thanks to the
> company they use tracing my vehicle ownership was a very polite information
> letter informing me of the times I'd parked and left and that future parking
> beyond that period would incur a £70 fine.
>
> I thought it was well handled since they could have imposed the fine in the
> first instance.
Did it actually use the word "fine". If you've still for the letter I
(and others I suspect, Roland for example) would be interested in the
precise wording used.
--
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"Don't be irreplaceable; if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted"
Roland Perry
2006, Paul Oldham <pa...@the-hug.org> remarked:
>Did it actually use the word "fine". If you've still for the letter I
>(and others I suspect, Roland for example) would be interested in the
>precise wording used.
It's more likely to say "penalty". Like the trains where you have
"Penalty fares" which likewise aren't "fines", but people often get the
two concepts confused.
The other option (which I have seen on First buses, for example) is to
say "our standard charge is £70, but this is waived if you leave within
3 hours/ pay an 80p bus fare/ etc". So it's not even a penalty then.
ps It wasn't £70 on the bus, but still quite high - £35
<http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/yorkhumber/southyorkshire/fare_changes/
fare_changes.php?item=53>
--
Roland Perry
ng...@aol.com
paid on the exit from the carpark unless you presented a receipt from
the shop, so that you could park there while you did your weekend
shopping elsewhere then nip in for a pint of milk or something.
Obviously they hoped you'd send rather more than that, and equally
obviously it didn't work, as I don't think the system is in operation
any longer.
The problem with the Bar Hill Tesco is that it does get used as a pure
park and ride, and the car park does get full - twice in the last month
I've had to circle the car park waiting for a space, and the store was
by no means as full as you'd expect from that number of cars.
Oddly (or not) that was after the signs warning of a time limit
appeared.
Incidentally, do Tesco own the carpark at BH? Do they own the freehold
for the other shops on the site? If not, how are the parking
rights/fees divvied up, and how can they impose a charge?
Robert Hunt
> say "our standard charge is £70, but this is waived if you leave within
> 3 hours/ pay an 80p bus fare/ etc". So it's not even a penalty then.
Yes, if I recall the wording of the signs at NR correctly, this is the
Tesco system: parking charge £70, free if you leave within 3 hours.
Nick Wagg
news:1157102046.9...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Incidentally, do Tesco own the carpark at BH? Do they own the freehold
> for the other shops on the site? If not, how are the parking
> rights/fees divvied up, and how can they impose a charge?
I'm pretty sure that the answer to both the former questions is yes.
They certainly owned the freehold to the shops in The Mall, which
was demolished to make way for the car park and the new Fox.
I know because my wife worked for KitchenSmiths who were there
at the time and frequently had to deal with solicitor Andrew Noyes
who represented Tesco as landlord.
Paul Oldham
> Incidentally, do Tesco own the carpark at BH? Do they own the freehold
> for the other shops on the site?
Yes. Essentially Tesco own the centre of Bar Hill. It's a very odd
situation.
PS: please don't top post if you want people to continue to read your
postings.
--
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"Time may be a great healer, but it's a lousy beautician"
Mark T.B. Carroll
(snip)
> Yes, if I recall the wording of the signs at NR correctly, this is the
> Tesco system: parking charge £70, free if you leave within 3 hours.
Gosh. ): I don't mind the Tesco stores that have carpark people who want
to see a receipt from Tesco or something but, although I'm very unlikely
to take over three hours, I think I would be unhappy enough at now
having to care if I do or not that it really would influence my shopping
decisions. (For me there's a big difference between very-unlikely and
not-at-all.)
-- Mark
Alan Braggins
>On 30/08/06 16:10 RealMart wrote:
>
>> Or just to park somewhere else in the first place...
>
>Or put something over your number plate when you leave of you stay more
>than the allotted time. They're bound to miss some car plates anyway
>where cars leave close together so if they don't see you leave they'll
>just drop the record of your entry from the database after a day or so.
Potentially inconvenient to you and others to have to stop and become
legal again before reaching a proper road.
Would any offense be committed if people were to cover the cameras in a
temporary non-damaging fashion? How many people might have to do this
once each for Tescos to decide the system was unworkable?
Paul Oldham
> Would any offense be committed if people were to cover the cameras in a
> temporary non-damaging fashion?
Can't think of one.
> How many people might have to do this
> once each for Tescos to decide the system was unworkable?
Dunno. I've also thought about whether one could jam it - it seems to be
using a wireless link ...
--
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"Ambidextrose: being able to put sugar in your coffee using either hand"
Paul
On 31/08/06 23:11 Paul wrote:
> I'd like to put in a word for Tescos here. They have the camera system
here
> at the Tring Road Aylesbury store and I did indeed park there one Saturday
> morning for over three hours when I couldn't find a space on returning to
> the street where I live nearby. The letter that arrived thanks to the
> company they use tracing my vehicle ownership was a very polite
information
> letter informing me of the times I'd parked and left and that future
parking
> beyond that period would incur a £70 fine.
>
> I thought it was well handled since they could have imposed the fine in
the
> first instance.
Did it actually use the word "fine". If you've still for the letter I
(and others I suspect, Roland for example) would be interested in the
precise wording used.
Sorry, I have since shredded it. Lesson learned I could see no point in
keeping it.
Paul
Colin Rosenstiel
n...@transcendata.com (Nick Wagg) wrote:
<cam/misc>
I think you'll find that Andrew Noyes is an estate agent.
</cam.misc>
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Nick Wagg
news:memo.2006091...@a01-09-5548.rosenstiel.co.uk...
Aah. Too much second hand information.
He also sings bad "folk" songs of his own penning, with his son.