Oh Girton College what have you done?

[Paul Bird]

Went round Swirle's Court "Eddington" this morning. Wish I hadn't. I
went round the lovely Ash Court (on campus) a few years ago and that is
really nice with large ensuite well furnished rooms, north facing albeit
with the corridor on the South side with window seats.

The one block I saw today was like a bad Travelodge. 4' beds and tiny
sofas in rooms not large enough to comfortably accommodate a 4' bed.
Cramped, poky, full height windows to ensure everybody can view your
discomfort and these are post grad rooms, older people not spotty youths
who might tolerate it.

I wonder how big the uptake will be for these at £200pw

Cambridge be ashamed. I hope the other blocks on the same site are
better. Much better.

Outside? Oh they look alright outside but that's not really the point is
it? Did I mention the M25 at that location? It sounds like a jet
aircraft taxiing permantly but then perhaps I'm being unfair because
anyone at Girton is used to it.

The positives? As I said it looks nice from outside.

PB

[Roland Perry]

In message <op0tq5$oj1$1...@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:20 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017,
Paul Bird <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:

>Did I mention the M25 at that location? It sounds like a jet aircraft
>taxiing permantly but then perhaps I'm being unfair because anyone at
>Girton is used to it.

M11, even :)

--
Roland Perry

[Paul Bird]

:-(

[Andrew May]

I didn't get to do the open-day tour thing because it needed to be
booked in advance and I did not expect to be here. But we did wander
over to take a look and check out the new Sainsburys.

First impression. Lots of different hard paving but no grass. None. No
grass verges, no little grass patches and no grass around the blocks of
flats - you can look straight in - and no front lawns in peoples's
gardens. Plenty of grass around Huntingdon Road, Madingley Road and
Girton itself but Eddington is completely devoid.

Once there it is difficult to remember that one is in the historic city
of Cambridge, it could just as easily be Milton Keynes, or Basingstoke
or Harlow - excpet they all have grass :-)

I don't know who the Sainsburys is targeted at. I counted twenty
different varieties of Champagne, shelf after shelf after shelf of ready
meals but a single shelf of fresh fish and that was all pre-packed
fillets. All I had gone in for was a couple of fresh trout but none. It
seems that a brand new Sainsburys on ones doorstep is not going to
prevent the weekly drive across Cambridge to Coldhams Lane. A shame.

The positives? The wooden seats in the centre outside Sainsburys are
nice with gentle curves and shallow backs. I am sure they will be a hit
with the local skateboarding youths.

[Paul Bird]

On 10/09/17 22:10, Andrew May wrote:
<snip>

>
> I didn't get to do the open-day tour thing because it needed to be
> booked in advance and I did not expect to be here. But we did wander
> over to take a look and check out the new Sainsburys.
>
> First impression. Lots of different hard paving but no grass. None. No
> grass verges, no little grass patches and no grass around the blocks of
> flats - you can look straight in - and no front lawns in peoples's
> gardens. Plenty of grass around Huntingdon Road, Madingley Road and
> Girton itself but Eddington is completely devoid.
>
> Once there it is difficult to remember that one is in the historic city
> of Cambridge, it could just as easily be Milton Keynes, or Basingstoke
> or Harlow - excpet they all have grass :-)
>
> I don't know who the Sainsburys is targeted at. I counted twenty
> different varieties of Champagne, shelf after shelf after shelf of ready
> meals but a single shelf of fresh fish and that was all pre-packed
> fillets. All I had gone in for was a couple of fresh trout but none. It
> seems that a brand new Sainsburys on ones doorstep is not going to
> prevent the weekly drive across Cambridge to Coldhams Lane. A shame.
>
> The positives? The wooden seats in the centre outside Sainsburys are
> nice with gentle curves and shallow backs. I am sure they will be a hit
> with the local skateboarding youths.
>

Sainsburys was mentioned as being of benefit to the postgrads at Swirles
Ct who have shared kitchens but no refectory (I asked) that's over the
road at the college itself. So it's not hard to see that ready meals and
alcohol will have a ready uptake.

The Rowan Moore article is along the same lines as you have written
although I didn't link it before I will now:-

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/10/building-trust-into-greener-housing-north-west-cambridge-development

PB

[Roland Perry]

In message <op49na$5ul$1...@dont-email.me>, at 22:10:01 on Sun, 10 Sep
2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>I don't know who the Sainsburys is targeted at.

I know this is going to sound flippant - but people who live in flats
like those.

There's a block of commercial student accommodation in the very centre
of Sheffield where my son lived last year, and on the ground floor is a
Tesco Express (and across the street a Sainsburys Local). The flat had
nothing more than a microwave with which to cook.

Similarly the halls my daughter lived in near Euston (at least they had
a traditional shared kitchen between each four students) had a
Sainsburys Local almost next door, and a couple of smaller chain
convenience stores within 100yds.

Neither sets of accommodation (nor indeed the vast majority we visited
during open days when selecting where to apply) had any form of meal
service available. That appears to have died out long ago - most
students and potential students citing the high cost, restricted opening
hours, lack of choice, and perceived institutionalisation.

On the other hand, I found my College Hall back in the day was good
value and a boon, meaning one could get on with life without a constant
round of shopping and cooking. Like being at a cross between a boarding
school and "all inclusive" hotel.

Meanwhile, near Cambridge station for student and commuter audience,
what's available: A CoOp convenience store, another two Sainsbury's
Local, and inside an M&S Simply Food.

>I counted twenty different varieties of Champagne,

The enormous range of Champagne was one of the things which struck me
the first time I went to Tesco Bar Hill.

>shelf after shelf after shelf of ready meals

That's all the busy young academic has time for.

>but a single shelf of fresh fish and that was all pre-packed fillets.
>All I had gone in for was a couple of fresh trout but none.

That's the difference between a Sainsburys Local, and a Sainsburys
superstore

>It seems that a brand new Sainsburys on ones doorstep is not going to
>prevent the weekly drive across Cambridge to Coldhams Lane.

One-stop supermarket shopping is almost dead. People prefer to trundle
round a few, getting the best/cheapest bits from each. It's one of the
main reasons retail grocery has fallen on such hard times - no longer do
people do one big shop in one place, warts and all.
--
Roland Perry

[Andrew May]

On 11/09/2017 07:44, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <op49na$5ul$1...@dont-email.me>, at 22:10:01 on Sun, 10 Sep
> 2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>
>> I don't know who the Sainsburys is targeted at.
>
> I know this is going to sound flippant - but people who live in flats
> like those.

Which all rather goes to reinforce the them and us of the area. This is
not an area which is part of Girton, or even part of Cambridge. It is a
distinct and separate entity, part of the university with university
halls, accommodation for university staff, a university primary school
and university departments. All controlled by the university. Even the
'public' spaces. Nothing for the plebs and never the twain shall meet.

> That's the difference between a Sainsburys Local, and a Sainsburys
> superstore

But this isn't a Sainsburys Local, it is signed as a superstore.

[Roland Perry]

In message <op0tq5$oj1$1...@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:20 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017,
Paul Bird <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:

>I wonder how big the uptake will be for these at £200pw

Have you tried renting *anything* in Cambridge recently?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <op5h2s$hud$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:21:48 on Mon, 11 Sep

2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>On 11/09/2017 07:44, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <op49na$5ul$1...@dont-email.me>, at 22:10:01 on Sun, 10 Sep
>>2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> I don't know who the Sainsburys is targeted at.
>> I know this is going to sound flippant - but people who live in
>>flats like those.
>
>Which all rather goes to reinforce the them and us of the area. This is
>not an area which is part of Girton, or even part of Cambridge. It is a
>distinct and separate entity, part of the university with university
>halls, accommodation for university staff, a university primary school
>and university departments. All controlled by the university. Even the
>'public' spaces. Nothing for the plebs and never the twain shall meet.

Just like University campuses the country over. While it's unusual for a
campus to have an in-house Sainsburys, I know of several with Costa,
Starbucks, Subway, SPAR; as well as a smattering of CoOp, WH Smith,
banks, travel agents.

Perhaps your thinking is coloured by the seriously non-campus atmosphere
of Cambridge University in the historic centre?

>> That's the difference between a Sainsburys Local, and a Sainsburys
>>superstore
>
>But this isn't a Sainsburys Local, it is signed as a superstore.

Interesting. I've been discussing the shop with other locals on Facebook
(sorry) and the product mix and size much better match a large "Local"
than a small "Superstore". But the Sainsbury's corporate website does
have it as a superstore.
--
Roland Perry

[Andrew May]

On 11/09/2017 11:43, Roland Perry wrote:

> Perhaps your thinking is coloured by the seriously non-campus atmosphere
> of Cambridge University in the historic centre?

No. I think perhaps my thinking is coloured by the fact that from my
recollection the whole development was 'sold' to locals as something
from which they would gain some benefit, and which would be part of the
local community and that included a new supermarket.

>
> Interesting. I've been discussing the shop with other locals on Facebook
> (sorry) and the product mix and size much better match a large "Local"
> than a small "Superstore". But the Sainsbury's corporate website does
> have it as a superstore.

Exactly. It was 'sold' to locals as an opportunity to have access to a
superstore on their doorstep.

[Roland Perry]

In message <op5rmr$36r$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:23:05 on Mon, 11 Sep

2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

To be fair, Sainsburys have wanted to build a superstore somewhere in
that corner of the City for a long time. Perhaps what they've delivered
is as big as the development's overall plan can accommodate.

Roughly when were these "sales pitches" made?

Meanwhile, in Ely, Aldi have broken many of the "frilly" promises they
made to gain planning permission. Important ones as far as the planners
ought to be concerned is failing to allow their car park to be used as a
park-and-walk to the High Street, and failing to refrain from selling
certain one-stop items like newspapers.

Both of these increase the "death of the High St" caused by out-of-town
shops.
--
Roland Perry

[Golan Trevize]

On Saturday, September 9, 2017 at 3:28:23 PM UTC+1, Paul Bird wrote:

> Outside? Oh they look alright outside ...

Surely Cambridge should be able to come up with something better
than merely "alright"? They are basically just rectangular boxes
almost completely devoid of any significant creative architectural
features. I might have liked to see pitched roofs, which are
surely more suitable for the English climate as well as for solar
PV installation. Or perhaps some curves or other features to
break up the monotonous straight edges. I know I'm sounding a
bit like Prince Charles, but I actually like modern architecture
when it's done well. As it is here:

http://www.archdaily.com/785120/citylife-apartments-zaha-hadid-architects

[Andrew May]

On 11/09/2017 12:33, Roland Perry wrote:

> Roughly when were these "sales pitches" made?
>

The impression given, if not the actual wording of all the information
leaflets that were delivered to local residents before the planning
application and before and during construction. The constant updates
about how it would all be worth the hassle of the construction. I don't
remember one of them saying 'this is all for the university so stay away'

[Paul Bird]

You can keep the mighty Zaha not interested in those but by way of
comparison you might like to cross the road sometime and look at
http://www.alliesandmorrison.com/project/ash-court/ which is a better
project altogether.

PB

[Katy Edgcombe]

On 11/09/2017 12:33, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <op5rmr$36r$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:23:05 on Mon, 11 Sep
> 2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>

>

>>>  Interesting. I've been discussing the shop with other locals on
>>> Facebook  (sorry) and the product mix and size much better match a
>>> large "Local"  than a small "Superstore". But the Sainsbury's
>>> corporate website does  have it as a superstore.
>>
>> Exactly. It was 'sold' to locals as an opportunity to have access to a
>> superstore on their doorstep.
>
> To be fair, Sainsburys have wanted to build a superstore somewhere in
> that corner of the City for a long time. Perhaps what they've delivered
> is as big as the development's overall plan can accommodate.
>

I am told (I think because a friend actually asked in the shop) that
Sainsbury's were asked, and agreed, not to sell fresh meat and fish at
this store because there was going to be a butcher and fishmonger on the
site.

No guarantees that either of the propositions above is or will be true.

Katy

[Roland Perry]

In message <op623d$tak$1...@dont-email.me>, at 14:12:13 on Mon, 11 Sep

2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>> Roughly when were these "sales pitches" made?
>
>The impression given, if not the actual wording of all the information
>leaflets that were delivered to local residents before the planning
>application and before and during construction.

Rough dates?

>The constant updates about how it would all be worth the hassle of the
>construction. I don't remember one of them saying 'this is all for the
>university so stay away'

Are they actively trying to keep townies away from the Sainsbury's? I'd
have thought the reported provision of an underground car park for it
indicated the opposite (given the again reported lack of parking for
residents).
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <I9f*9o...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 14:26:15 on Mon,
11 Sep 2017, Katy Edgcombe <ke...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>>>>  Interesting. I've been discussing the shop with other locals on
>>>>Facebook  (sorry) and the product mix and size much better match a
>>>>large "Local"  than a small "Superstore". But the Sainsbury's
>>>>corporate website does  have it as a superstore.
>>>
>>> Exactly. It was 'sold' to locals as an opportunity to have access to
>>>a superstore on their doorstep.

>> To be fair, Sainsburys have wanted to build a superstore somewhere
>>in that corner of the City for a long time. Perhaps what they've
>>delivered is as big as the development's overall plan can accommodate.
>
>I am told (I think because a friend actually asked in the shop) that
>Sainsbury's were asked, and agreed, not to sell fresh meat and fish at
>this store because there was going to be a butcher and fishmonger on
>the site.

I expect Sainsbury's think they had a lucky escape there. Their 20th
Century "fresh food" counters at Ely, like the nearby Tescos, rarely
have any customers[1]. And with the site's demographic [what cooking
facilities do the flats have, anyone], likely to be even less.

>No guarantees that either of the propositions above is or will be true.

Again, the Aldi in Ely has some promises (maybe even planning
conditions) about the ratio of floor space for food and non-food, and I
think they aren't supposed to have a deli/meat/fish counter (not that
their current business model would, anyway).

[1] And appear to be reduced to cutting up random sized portions, shrink
wrapping & pricing them in store, and displaying them alongside the
factory-sealed items. Often at reduced price because the use-by date
looms.
--
Roland Perry

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <e$q5COyvR...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
wrote:

> To be fair, Sainsburys have wanted to build a superstore somewhere in
> that corner of the City for a long time. Perhaps what they've
> delivered is as big as the development's overall plan can
> accommodate.

You've been talking to Tim again.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[Andrew May]

On 11/09/2017 14:28, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <op623d$tak$1...@dont-email.me>, at 14:12:13 on Mon, 11 Sep
> 2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> Roughly when were these "sales pitches" made?
>>
>> The impression given, if not the actual wording of all the information
>> leaflets that were delivered to local residents before the planning
>> application and before and during construction.
>
> Rough dates?

From recollection from at least five years ago or so. Then a leaflet a
couple of times a year. All about how wonderful it was going to be and
how they were keeping the local community up to date with what was going
on. Oh, and several 'open days' on site.

>
>> The constant updates about how it would all be worth the hassle of the
>> construction. I don't remember one of them saying 'this is all for the
>> university so stay away'
>
> Are they actively trying to keep townies away from the Sainsbury's? I'd
> have thought the reported provision of an underground car park for it
> indicated the opposite (given the again reported lack of parking for
> residents).

I don't know that they are actively doing anything are they?

[Roland Perry]

In message <op6lk2$nd6$1...@dont-email.me>, at 19:45:20 on Mon, 11 Sep

2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>> Are they actively trying to keep townies away from the Sainsbury's? I'd
>> have thought the reported provision of an underground car park for it
>> indicated the opposite (given the again reported lack of parking for
>> residents).
>
>I don't know that they are actively doing anything are they?

So you as a townie can shop there. Good.
--
Roland Perry

[Theo]

Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Which all rather goes to reinforce the them and us of the area. This is
> not an area which is part of Girton, or even part of Cambridge. It is a
> distinct and separate entity, part of the university with university
> halls, accommodation for university staff, a university primary school
> and university departments. All controlled by the university. Even the
> 'public' spaces. Nothing for the plebs and never the twain shall meet.

One thing to realise is that Sainsbury's don't know what their audience is
actually going to be. They have Clubcard data, of people who live within a
certain radius and the things they buy. But the data for people who live
closest and are likely to shop there most frequently is entirely absent -
there are no Clubcard holders within 0.x miles because it was previously a
field. So they basically have to guess, based on the demographic that they
expect and probably inference from similar stores elsewhere.

That means two things:

If you want them to stock a wider range of something, go buy what they have
because it'll train the algorithms that there is demand for that thing. Now
is a very good time because the algorithms are starting from a clean sheet.

In some areas they will guess wrong, and overstock. That would be an
excellent opportunity to hover around the 'reduced to clear' section in a
week or two. (or equivalently longer timeline for storecupboard goods) For
instance, they might have projected from the Sidney St store that they sell
lots of champagne (May Week, etc). Postgrads don't do May Week in the same
way and wouldn't lug it into town anyway, and so I'd be willing to bet
they'll want to shift that champagne when they realise it isn't selling.

Theo

[Tim Ward]

On 11/09/2017 22:45, Theo wrote:
>
> I'd be willing to bet they'll want to shift that champagne when they
> realise it isn't selling.

I was brought up with the idea that you drank a bottle of champagne when
you moved into a new house. Sounds perfectly sensible to stock a decent
amount in an entire new estate :-)

--
Tim Ward - 07801 703 600
www.brettward.co.uk

[Roland Perry]

In message <p1r*9d...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 22:45:27 on Mon,
11 Sep 2017, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

>Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Which all rather goes to reinforce the them and us of the area. This is
>> not an area which is part of Girton, or even part of Cambridge. It is a
>> distinct and separate entity, part of the university with university
>> halls, accommodation for university staff, a university primary school
>> and university departments. All controlled by the university. Even the
>> 'public' spaces. Nothing for the plebs and never the twain shall meet.
>
>One thing to realise is that Sainsbury's don't know what their audience is
>actually going to be. They have Clubcard data,

Nectar, actually; and that's far less widely used by their customers
than by Tesco Clubcard.

>of people who live within a certain radius and the things they buy. But
>the data for people who live closest and are likely to shop there most
>frequently is entirely absent - there are no Clubcard holders within
>0.x miles because it was previously a field. So they basically have to
>guess, based on the demographic that they expect and probably inference
>from similar stores elsewhere.

But even so, there are so many Sainsbury's Local opening up (several in
Cambridge in recent memory) that they (a) have other sources of info and
(b) usually have a cookie-cutter store.

>That means two things:
>
>If you want them to stock a wider range of something, go buy what they have
>because it'll train the algorithms that there is demand for that thing. Now
>is a very good time because the algorithms are starting from a clean sheet.

My observation from what sells and doesn't (clearance shelves are one
clue) is that individual stores aren't tuned as much as you assume they
are.

>In some areas they will guess wrong, and overstock. That would be an
>excellent opportunity to hover around the 'reduced to clear' section in a
>week or two.

Perhaps, but without the butcher, fishmonger etc counters, the way
Sainsbury's clears stuff there'll be thinner pickings.

>(or equivalently longer timeline for storecupboard goods) For instance,
>they might have projected from the Sidney St store that they sell lots
>of champagne (May Week, etc).

I don't think they even do that. Shops near schools are routinely
overflowing with un-bought lunchtime sandwiches during half term week
for example.

Tesco are generally regarded as having better data on their shops and
customers, yet year after year at Ely they overstock on mince pies and
brandy butter(s) and have to clearance them (palette loads of pies) in
the early New Year. While a busy store, perhaps Eastern Europeans don't
"do" mince pies?

On the other hand, they do buy loads of sliced white bread on a Friday
evening, and week after week, month after month, the store sells out
completely that day. And yet, they don't adjust their stocking.

>Postgrads don't do May Week in the same way and wouldn't lug it into
>town anyway, and so I'd be willing to bet they'll want to shift that
>champagne when they realise it isn't selling.

The only time I've *ever* seen champagne on clearance at a supermarket
was at a Tesco Extra store (Peterborough I think) the week after Xmas,
when they had lots of own-brand[1] Xmas-labelled champagne unsold. So
either their algorithm got it spectacularly wrong, or it's not as
evidence-based as we assume.

[1] Which tells another story. Champagne on the shelves will typically
belong to the wholesaler, not the supermarket (except for own-brand) and
if it's not selling the shop will simply send it back. However, the
wholesaler will usually keep it in the store (and maybe have a "10% off"
sale) because it's more likely to shift if it's on a supermarket shelf
than in his warehouse.

--
Roland Perry

[Andrew May]

On 11/09/2017 14:26, Katy Edgcombe wrote:

> I am told (I think because a friend actually asked in the shop) that
> Sainsbury's were asked, and agreed, not to sell fresh meat and fish at
> this store because there was going to be a butcher and fishmonger on the
> site.
>
> No guarantees that either of the propositions above is or will be true.
>

That would be a joy. But a fishmonger? Is there another of those
anywhere in Cambridge[1].

[1] FOAD, Roland, by fishmonger I mean an independent shop that sells
mainly fish and seafood.

[Andrew May]

No, so that I as a local can shop there. So that I don't add to
congestion/pollution going somewhere else to buy what I want.

You, on the other hand seem to favour a separation of Town and Gown.
Don't we have enough of that already?

[Roland Perry]

In message <op8920$u36$1...@dont-email.me>, at 10:23:11 on Tue, 12 Sep

2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

I only have the report above that there might be a fishmonger. Perhaps
there are some plans of the site, or even some signage, which might
confirm or deny.

Not every fishmonger is an independent, but almost every one I've seen
for decades trades out of the back of a trailer at the roadside or a
market.

In any event, why does there need to be a recent precedent in Cambridge,
is that compulsory for all shop openings?

<https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Fish+Burwell+LTD/@52.2451671,0.39687
96,15z>
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <op89nq$5r7$1...@dont-email.me>, at 10:34:48 on Tue, 12 Sep

2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>>>> Are they actively trying to keep townies away from the Sainsbury's?
>>>>I'd
>>>> have thought the reported provision of an underground car park for it
>>>> indicated the opposite (given the again reported lack of parking for
>>>> residents).
>>>
>>> I don't know that they are actively doing anything are they?

>> So you as a townie can shop there. Good.
>
>No, so that I as a local can shop there.

They've provided a car park, and apparently some temporary signage from
nearby main roads (with the implication that permanent signage wouldn't
pass planning).

>So that I don't add to congestion/pollution going somewhere else to buy
>what I want.

Current planning methodology is to discourage "one-stop-shopping"
because it adds to the "Death of the High Street", where people are
encouraged to visit a range of specialist (often independent) stores,
which adds to the local "vibrancy".

>You, on the other hand seem to favour a separation of Town and Gown.
>Don't we have enough of that already?

There's virtually no separation in Cambridge, so deeply is the City
Centre and the University interwoven. All I said was that the model for
the last fifty years has been to establish University Campuses
elsewhere, which are typically in the middle of nowhere.

Take Warwick as a typical example. However, they don't especially seek
to either encourage or prevent the locals from using the shops or
parking here:

https://goo.gl/maps/M9xTFcqSup62

On the other hand at Lancaster campus parking is very difficult, and
they don't give the impression of expecting locals to be shopping here:

https://goo.gl/maps/dAHc8se9fmR2

[In both the examples above, I've been there, seen it, soaked up the
atmosphere]

Disclaimer: I spent my 2nd/3rd years with a view of Sidney St Sainsburys
(only just opened) outside my staircase window, and never have had,
before or since, a supermarket quite so handy. I didn't get the feeling
it was built for students (we almost all ate in hall) nor that students
were unwelcome, nor that the presence of the College across the street
put off the locals.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8650/15729968667_331a517739_c.jpg

What bits and bobs I wanted I usually got at the Dorothy (Mon-Sat) or a
newsagent across the road from Magdalene which was the only place
locally open on a Sunday. Here perhaps:

<https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/University+Grocers+%26+Newsagents/@
52.2093128,0.1156529,19z>
--
Roland Perry

[Espen Koht]

On 11/09/2017 22:45, Theo wrote:

> For
> instance, they might have projected from the Sidney St store that they sell
> lots of champagne (May Week, etc). Postgrads don't do May Week in the same
> way and wouldn't lug it into town

That has more to do with the fact that May Week was back in June I
suspect. There was a very conspicuous display of bubbly at Sidney St on
the two days closest to the last day of exams (for most students);
almost certainly based on year-on-year sales figures I suspect. I don't
think it would project anything to a store in September.

[DR de Lacey]

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 15:28:20 +0100, Paul Bird wrote:

> Went round Swirle's Court "Eddington" this morning. Wish I hadn't. I
> went round the lovely Ash Court (on campus) a few years ago and that is
> really nice with large ensuite well furnished rooms, north facing albeit
> with the corridor on the South side with window seats.
>
> The one block I saw today was like a bad Travelodge. 4' beds and tiny
> sofas in rooms not large enough to comfortably accommodate a 4' bed.
> Cramped, poky, full height windows to ensure everybody can view your
> discomfort and these are post grad rooms, older people not spotty youths
> who might tolerate it.
>

> I wonder how big the uptake will be for these at £200pw
>

> Cambridge be ashamed. I hope the other blocks on the same site are
> better. Much better.

Can't disagree, but don't blame Girton College. The Court is simply
rented from the University which is responsible for all the architecture
on the NWC site.

The rooms were designed, I believe, on the assumption that they would be
post-doc, not post-grad.

Douglas de Lacey (District Councillor but writing as a private individual)

[DR de Lacey]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 12:23:05 +0100, Andrew May wrote:

> On 11/09/2017 11:43, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> Perhaps your thinking is coloured by the seriously non-campus
>> atmosphere of Cambridge University in the historic centre?
>
> No. I think perhaps my thinking is coloured by the fact that from my
> recollection the whole development was 'sold' to locals as something
> from which they would gain some benefit, and which would be part of the
> local community and that included a new supermarket.

Partly. The planning Committee was assured that the supermarket was for
the development only (and therefore would not take custom from local
stores like Girton's Co-Op). We were therefore very cross when presented
with plans for enormous advertising totems to be erected at the entrances
to the development, and managed at least to get them reduced in size.
They are also to be removed in 3 years; but Sainsbury's argued that until
then it's unsustainable without passing trade.

[DR de Lacey]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 22:45:27 +0100, Theo wrote:


> One thing to realise is that Sainsbury's don't know what their audience
> is actually going to be. They have Clubcard data, of people who live
> within a certain radius and the things they buy. But the data for
> people who live closest and are likely to shop there most frequently is
> entirely absent - there are no Clubcard holders within 0.x miles because
> it was previously a field. So they basically have to guess, based on
> the demographic that they expect and probably inference from similar
> stores elsewhere.

Au contraire, Sainsbury's had a very clear idea. I attended a pre-opening
jolly, and the manager told us that it was carefully targeted at the
anticipated population of NWC. (see my reply to Andrew for more on this).
And they seemed to think this meant students and wealthy professors.
Hence the large area of `Free from...' and the alcohol. It wasn't only
the range of the latter which surprised me: do they really expect a
student on £9000+ fees to be able to afford champagne at £125 a pop?

[Roland Perry]

In message <YBB*zl...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 10:27:02 on Thu,
14 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>> One thing to realise is that Sainsbury's don't know what their audience
>> is actually going to be. They have Clubcard data, of people who live
>> within a certain radius and the things they buy. But the data for
>> people who live closest and are likely to shop there most frequently is
>> entirely absent - there are no Clubcard holders within 0.x miles because
>> it was previously a field. So they basically have to guess, based on
>> the demographic that they expect and probably inference from similar
>> stores elsewhere.
>
>Au contraire, Sainsbury's had a very clear idea. I attended a pre-opening
>jolly, and the manager told us that it was carefully targeted at the
>anticipated population of NWC. (see my reply to Andrew for more on this).
>And they seemed to think this meant students and wealthy professors.
>Hence the large area of `Free from...' and the alcohol. It wasn't only
>the range of the latter which surprised me: do they really expect a
>student on £9000+ fees to be able to afford champagne at £125 a pop?

It doesn't really matter to Sainsbury's because those bottles will
belong to the wholesaler, therefore it's his risk. It if doesn't sell
the wholesaler will grab them back and put them in a Waitrose in Chelsea
(or whatever). In the mean time it's almost literally some interesting
window dressing.
--
Roland Perry

[Golan Trevize]

Went to the Sainsburys circa 7 pm last night. To my pleasant
surprise the underground car park was almost deserted and there
was no queue at the checkouts. There was also an impressive
quantity of about-to-expire ready meals at massive discounts.
Beef hotpot for 59p, can't complain about that. Obviously
those things will eventually change but in the meantime it may
be a useful alternative to Aldi (overcrowded) and the CoOp
(sometimes overpriced, limited selection).

[Roland Perry]

In message <cee9b475-ffe8-486d...@googlegroups.com>, at
05:57:38 on Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Golan Trevize <padd...@gmail.com>
remarked:

>Went to the Sainsburys circa 7 pm last night. To my pleasant
>surprise the underground car park was almost deserted and there
>was no queue at the checkouts.

Sainsburys Ely is like that a lot of the time, even 4yrs after opening.

>There was also an impressive quantity of about-to-expire ready meals at
>massive discounts.

While clearance discounts there have settled down to largely 1/3 off,
there can still be quite a lot more on a Thursday. Which I put down to
hourly-paid customers awaiting payday at the end of the week, and "young
professionals" shopping almost exclusively at the weekend.

You don't have to take my word for it, Google Maps "Popular times" shows
Thursday the quietist (and Friday not much better in the afternoon) at
around half as busy as the weekend.

Meanwhile at Tesco, the self-check wands are virtually unused during the
week, but deployed at weekends by smartly dressed mums with a trolley
full of Waitrose bags-for-life (fallen on hard times perhaps).
--
Roland Perry

[Tim Ward]

On 14/09/2017 10:27, DR de Lacey wrote:
>
> do they really expect a student on £9000+ fees to be able to afford
> champagne at £125 a pop?

When I was a student I never drank in pubs, because of the prices. I
drank in the college bar when I had some cash, and stopped when my grant
cheque ran out.

Modern students are of course so much in debt that a few grand more for
three years of boozing is neither here nor there. Plus of course unless
they turn out to be rich they'll never have to pay it all back anyway.

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <MeyuB.915394$842....@fx23.am4>, t...@brettward.co.uk (Tim Ward)
wrote:

Trouble is their loans are limited, especially for maintenance. So poorer
students really can be poor now (subject to hardship funds).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[Paul Bird]

On 14/09/17 10:12, DR de Lacey wrote:
> The rooms were designed, I believe, on the assumption that they would be
> post-doc, not post-grad.

That's even worse.

[Roland Perry]

In message <ILadnfan4tgAUifE...@giganews.com>, at 13:51:09
on Thu, 14 Sep 2017, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:

>> > do they really expect a student on £9000+ fees to be able to afford
>> > champagne at £125 a pop?
>> When I was a student I never drank in pubs, because of the prices. I
>> drank in the college bar when I had some cash, and stopped when my
>> grant cheque ran out.
>>
>> Modern students are of course so much in debt that a few grand more
>> for three years of boozing is neither here nor there. Plus of course
>> unless they turn out to be rich they'll never have to pay it all back
>> anyway.
>
>Trouble is their loans are limited, especially for maintenance. So poorer
>students really can be poor now (subject to hardship funds).

While we've imported the USA-ian system of student loans, what we
haven't imported is a work ethic which says that the recipients ought to
strive to get a part-time job (especially in vacations) to boost their
income.

I'm not suggesting this is a desirable/undesirable thing to have to do,
but the two somewhat go hand in hand and if society has decided that
students should not be fully supported by the state while studying, it's
bit sub-optimal to import only half the alternative schema.

ps Back to the expensive champagne - of course there are large numbers
of foreign students paying megabucks to study, and who may not be as
short of cash as the indigenous population, plus all kinds of
students might have a parent who thinks an expensive bottle of bubbly
on graduation day is in the noise level compared to the preceding
four years of running bank of mom and dad.
--
Roland Perry

[tim...]

"Paul Bird" <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:opfqr5$efc$1...@dont-email.me...

Yeah

I thought that I had misread the thread up to that point

tim

[Paul Bird]

To clear up any possible misunderstanding on your part, I thought the
rooms I saw were like a bad Travelodge.

I thought that undergraduates might tolerate them without complaint
because they don't know any better and they are young.

I think they are unsuitable for post grads who are (I'm guessing) 24 and
upwards.

I think they are a joke for post docs who (I had to ask) are apparently

"Post-doc: Older. Proper adults, poss with partners so need a double-ish
bed, I presume. Post-grads are doing a further degree, post-docs have
finished their PhDs and are research assistants or lecturers of something. "

Clear now?

The architect leading the "tour" (it was barely that), said 17sqm
including the ensuite.

They are dreadful rooms, I have stayed in much better Travelodges for
the same money.

PB

[Paul Bird]

On 15/09/17 12:44, tim... wrote:
>
>

One more thing. Douglas said they're designed for post docs and this
ties in with something the Girton client rep said that the dividing
walls don't have rebars in them so that if a couple were to have two
adjacent rooms a doorway could be knocked through in future but in my
opinion all you would have then would be two bad rooms with two ensuites
taking up the space.

Really if they are intending couples to lodge there at all they ought to
have designed in couples rooms with one ensuite not two, but as I said
we were only shown part of one block and it is entirely possible that
other blocks have a different layout.

PB

[tim...]

"Paul Bird" <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message

news:opgfaf$k75$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 15/09/17 12:44, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Paul Bird" <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:opfqr5$efc$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 14/09/17 10:12, DR de Lacey wrote:
>>>> The rooms were designed, I believe, on the assumption that they would
>>>> be
>>>> post-doc, not post-grad.
>>>
>>> That's even worse.
>>
>> Yeah
>>
>> I thought that I had misread the thread up to that point
>>
>> tim
>
> To clear up any possible misunderstanding on your part, I thought the
> rooms I saw were like a bad Travelodge.
>
> I thought that undergraduates might tolerate them without complaint
> because they don't know any better and they are young.

actually,

I think it's a perfectly acceptable accommodation for undergraduates, even
if they do know better. We all have to start out in life at the bottom.
This idea that some snowflakes have that the minimum sized accommodation
that they should be expected to live in is a 3 bed detached house is
nonsense (I have 2 nieces who think exactly this.)

They're still infinitely better off than the previous generations. I (and
I'm sure most of you) had to start off living in a room like this with the
added disadvantage that it was freezing cold for half of the year (and that
was if you could afford to turn the heating on!)

Assuming by "bad" Travelodge you're referring to the size of the room and
not the quantity of fittings that are broken :-)

> I think they are unsuitable for post grads who are (I'm guessing) 24 and
> upwards.
>
> I think they are a joke for post docs who (I had to ask) are apparently
>
> "Post-doc: Older. Proper adults, poss with partners so need a double-ish
> bed, I presume. Post-grads are doing a further degree, post-docs have
> finished their PhDs and are research assistants or lecturers of something.
> "
>
> Clear now?

I didn't need a description of the terms, I was uncertain as to whether you
really did say "the rooms are intended for post docs"

If I was a post doc and I was offered the room that you are describing I
would:

a) be looking for accommodation on the open market
b) be seriously considering whether my decision to further my career at this
college was the correct decision - I'm assuming that people who get offered
post dost at a Cambridge college really can pick and choose where they go.

> The architect leading the "tour" (it was barely that), said 17sqm
> including the ensuite.

with own cooking or shared cooking facilities?

tim

[Espen Koht]

I'm not sure it's correct. Certainly by the building stage I don't
remember anyone discussing these particular blocks as being anything
other than "Purpose built for Graduates". Other types of accommodation
are available or planned for the site, but Swirles Court is this:

https://www.girton.cam.ac.uk/for-graduate-students/accommodation/graduate-accommodation-overview/swirles-court

[Paul Bird]

On 16/09/17 11:18, tim... wrote:
> with own cooking or shared cooking facilities?

Separate kitchens, one between four rooms in the block we saw.

[Paul Bird]

That photograph of a room is greatly stretched by the use of a 24mm lens
or possibly wider angle. You can tell by the distortion of the objects
closest to the lens. It is not an objective image. When you're in there
they feel cramped by the poor layout and the sofa is a complete joke.

PB

[Roland Perry]

In message <qRo*29...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 11:32:32 on Sat,
16 Sep 2017, Espen Koht <eh...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>>>> The rooms were designed, I believe, on the assumption that they would be
>>>> post-doc, not post-grad.
>>>
>>> That's even worse.
>> Yeah
>> I thought that I had misread the thread up to that point
>
>I'm not sure it's correct. Certainly by the building stage I don't
>remember anyone discussing these particular blocks as being anything
>other than "Purpose built for Graduates". Other types of accommodation
>are available or planned for the site, but Swirles Court is this:
>
>https://www.girton.cam.ac.uk/for-graduate-students/accommodation/graduate-accommodation-overview/swirles-court

What we seem to have is a considerable degree of confusion between a
Girton College Court, which just happens to be near/in Eddington (just
like Clare has a Court which happens to be near the University Library),
and privately built/let accommodation which is also near/in Eddington
but isn't tied to any particular college (or indeed any particular
University).

I would not expect the former to be advertised as a weekly rental,
rather than an annual one.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <opj2bl$ha8$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:36:20 on Sat, 16 Sep
2017, Paul Bird <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:

>> I'm not sure it's correct. Certainly by the building stage I don't
>>remember anyone discussing these particular blocks as being anything
>>other than "Purpose built for Graduates". Other types of accommodation
>>are available or planned for the site, but Swirles Court is this:
>>
>>https://www.girton.cam.ac.uk/for-graduate-students/accommodation/gradua
>>te-accommodation-overview/swirles-court
>
>That photograph of a room is greatly stretched by the use of a 24mm
>lens or possibly wider angle. You can tell by the distortion of the
>objects closest to the lens. It is not an objective image. When you're
>in there they feel cramped by the poor layout and the sofa is a
>complete joke.

Welcome to student rooms that aren't in a 19th Century legacy staircase.

My son's first year university hall room (built in perhaps 2000) didn't
have a sofa - but just enough room for built-in bed, desk and wardrobe.
Plus a wet-room style shower/WC guaranteed to cause claustrophobia.

But then it did have a small kitchen and shared dining area big enough
for a small sofa, between eight rooms.
--
Roland Perry

[Paul Bird]

On 16/09/17 12:44, Roland Perry wrote:
> Welcome to student rooms that aren't in a 19th Century legacy staircase.

While working briefly for Dell 3rd party support in 2004 I visited a
graduate at Kings in his room on a staircase, 1st floor I think and so
on this one occasion I can relate to exactly to what you refer.

In the same job and only days apart I visited a girl in one of the then
new blocks alongside the railway line near to where Rattee and Kett used
to be located. The room was tiny, there wasn't much more room than
required for one person plus me sitting at her desk to fix the laptop.

Your son's room and facilities sounds awful, I wish I had more access to
visiting these places but there are few tours and I don't have children
to accompany or to visit.

Thanks for the comparison.

PB

[Roland Perry]

In message <opj3dm$nui$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:54:29 on Sat, 16 Sep

2017, Paul Bird <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> remarked:

>> Welcome to student rooms that aren't in a 19th Century legacy staircase.
>
>While working briefly for Dell 3rd party support in 2004 I visited a
>graduate at Kings in his room on a staircase, 1st floor I think and so
>on this one occasion I can relate to exactly to what you refer.

My first year at Sidney saw me sharing a "set" of rooms (originally for
sole occupancy) with another student, with more space than the average
young professional couple could ever dream of in their first home
together. But even then there was no plumbing, and the toilets/washing
facilities were in one common area per floor.

The major innovation of that block, c1920, was that those facilities
also contained baths. Previously the entire college had just one common
bath-block.

I haven't been back to those exact rooms, but suspect they are now
converted into at least three bed-sits, probably with tiny en-suites.

>In the same job and only days apart I visited a girl in one of the then
>new blocks alongside the railway line near to where Rattee and Kett
>used to be located. The room was tiny, there wasn't much more room than
>required for one person plus me sitting at her desk to fix the laptop.
>
>Your son's room and facilities sounds awful, I wish I had more access
>to visiting these places but there are few tours and I don't have
>children to accompany or to visit.

I've seen dozens of such facilities courtesy of open days at
universities for both of my children. They've (Unis in general)
experimented with various configurations, in particular trying to cope
with the tidal wave towards self-catering.

The least successful now were those rather down at heel 1960's/70's
blocks where the common kitchens were supposed to be for making the odd
cup of tea, and are now simply inadequate for the typically eight rooms
for which they were provided doing full self-catering. The acid test
being "are there at least a dozen cooking rings, more than one
fridge/freezer shelf per flat, and a table to seat six".

>Thanks for the comparison.

You're welcome.
--
Roland Perry

[tim...]

"Paul Bird" <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message

news:opj2bl$ha8$1...@dont-email.me...

I bet that the "office" chair is a complete joke as well

tim


>
> PB

[tim...]

"Paul Bird" <pa...@nospamcamtutor.co.uk> wrote in message

news:opj3dm$nui$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 16/09/17 12:44, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Welcome to student rooms that aren't in a 19th Century legacy staircase.
>
> While working briefly for Dell 3rd party support in 2004 I visited a
> graduate at Kings in his room on a staircase, 1st floor I think and so on
> this one occasion I can relate to exactly to what you refer.

one thing that you have to remember is that historically the staircase rooms
were occupied by two students sharing.

Now, I believe, they are single occupancy

this does go some way to making them larger than normal for a single person

tim

[Theo]

That roughly summarises the range across colleges. On average, IME, college
rooms are larger that you find privately rented. The problem comes with the
demand for en-suite, in particular for undergrad rooms which are used for
conference guests. There isn't any more area, so the living space gets
smaller - even though there are some 'innovations' out there (yes, you can
put the sink above the toilet cistern, or shower head above the sink, no it
isn't a good idea). Another tendency is for fridges in rooms - it's nicer
to have a mini fridge rather than people stealing your milk, but it's
another piece of area taken up (and a load of heat to vent).

Some colleges I could name have a rather more 'pack 'em in' approach than
others...

Theo

[Roland Perry]

In message <n1r*wY...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 15:16:57 on Sat,
16 Sep 2017, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

>there are some 'innovations' out there (yes, you can put the sink above
>the toilet cistern, or shower head above the sink, no it isn't a good
>idea).

In my son's room it was a more a case of sitting on the toilet seat
while showering.
--
Roland Perry

[Espen Koht]

I haven't seen any such confusion until you introduced it just now! Paul
visited and was commenting on Girton's 'court' in Eddington documented
above (this the 'Girton College' of the title).

[Theo]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> What we seem to have is a considerable degree of confusion between a
> Girton College Court, which just happens to be near/in Eddington (just
> like Clare has a Court which happens to be near the University Library),
> and privately built/let accommodation which is also near/in Eddington
> but isn't tied to any particular college (or indeed any particular
> University).

What's interesting here is the numbers.

Swirles Court has 325 rooms

Girton's stats for 2015-16 are 55 grad students on one-year programmes and
38 on research programmes. Let's say they research programme folks take 4
years each. That's 207 rooms needed to fully house all grad students.
If they include fourth year undergrads (I guess ~40), they're still well
overprovisioned.

Overprovision isn't unknown elsewhere - eg Trinity Hall Wytchfield has long
had space for students from other colleges - I suspect as 'future proofing'
for demand in later years.

Since a number of PhD students are unlikely to want to live-in through
they're entire programme (couples, families, etc), that might suggest Girton
plans to grow its grad student population significantly, or there will be
some numbers of undergrads there.

Looking at the undergrad numbers, they had 451 rooms in 2015 and 481
undergrads. That would account for some of the the difference.
My guess would be they intend to sell off some of the random houses that
colleges tend to accumulate for student accommodation.

It would seem there's not much scope for these being used for postdocs,
except for on an ad-hoc basis while student numbers are rising to meet their
intended target.

Theo

[Roland Perry]

In message <rfE*MC...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 18:16:43 on Sat,

"The Court is simply rented from the University which is
responsible for all the architecture on the NWC site."

Although the latter could conceivably mean "the Court as a complete
entity is rented by Girton, who then sublet the rooms only to members of
Girton".

--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <m1r*Sp...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 21:55:12 on Sat,
16 Sep 2017, Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:

>Since a number of PhD students are unlikely to want to live-in through
>they're entire programme (couples, families, etc), that might suggest Girton
>plans to grow its grad student population significantly, or there will be
>some numbers of undergrads there.

I've known some postgards of various generations, and none of them lived
in other than in private rented, or as the owner/sharer of a regular
house. Given the price inflation in Cambridge over the last 20yrs I can
see how the latter has become rarer, as I think has College-owned HMOs.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <XG2rMFIX...@perry.co.uk>, at 12:44:23 on Sat, 16 Sep
2017, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> remarked:

>My son's first year university hall room (built in perhaps 2000) didn't
>have a sofa - but just enough room for built-in bed, desk and wardrobe.
>Plus a wet-room style shower/WC guaranteed to cause claustrophobia.
>
>But then it did have a small kitchen and shared dining area big enough
>for a small sofa, between eight rooms.

And these new Girton rooms seem to be that model:

The study-bedrooms are arranged in clusters of four to eight
students, who share kitchen facilities which include a seating
area for all of the occupants of the flat as well as cooking
facilities including a cooker, fridge, freezer and a microwave.
There are two lockable cupboards per resident in each kitchen.

Earlier such "faux flats" might be designed with shared bathrooms/
toilets, and I've seen a few later ones where the kitchen has been
abolished (they always turn into an out-take from "The Young Ones") and
replaced by a small sink, fridge and a microwave built into each room.

It's the latter which is begging for the ready-meals from a local
supermarket.
--
Roland Perry

[DR de Lacey]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:48:49 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <rfE*MC...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 18:16:43 on Sat,
> 16 Sep 2017, Espen Koht <eh...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:
>>On 16/09/2017 12:33, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <qRo*29...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 11:32:32 on
>>>Sat, 16 Sep 2017, Espen Koht <eh...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>> The rooms were designed, I believe, on the assumption that they
>>>>>>>would be
>>>>>>> post-doc, not post-grad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's even worse.

I couldn't disagree; I was merely stating what I believe to be the case.

>>>>>  Yeah I thought that I had misread the thread up to that point
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure it's correct. Certainly by the building stage I don't
>>>>remember anyone discussing these particular blocks as being anything
>>>>other than "Purpose built for Graduates". Other types of accommodation
>>>> are available or planned for the site, but Swirles Court is this:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.girton.cam.ac.uk/for-graduate-students/accommodation/gra
>>>>duate-accommodation-overview/swirles-court
>>> What we seem to have is a considerable degree of confusion between a
>>>Girton College Court, which just happens to be near/in Eddington (just
>>>like Clare has a Court which happens to be near the University
>>>Library), and privately built/let accommodation which is also near/in
>>>Eddington but isn't tied to any particular college (or indeed any
>>>particular University).
>>
>>I haven't seen any such confusion until you introduced it just now!
>>Paul visited and was commenting on Girton's 'court' in Eddington
>>documented above (this the 'Girton College' of the title).
>
> "The Court is simply rented from the University which is
> responsible for all the architecture on the NWC site."
>
> Although the latter could conceivably mean "the Court as a complete
> entity is rented by Girton, who then sublet the rooms only to members of
> Girton".

The inset comment is mine, and Roland's gloss is how I understand the
situation (and what I intended).

There is very little if any `privately built/let accommodation which is
also ... in Eddington but isn't tied to any particular college (or
indeed any particular University)' yet; though the University will be
selling off private homes eventually (Hill Residential already have a
show home I believe). Most of the accommodation will be let by the
University, to key workers, post docs and perhaps others. NB post docs
are of course also graduates.

Douglas de Lacey

[DR de Lacey]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:13:39 +0100, tim... wrote:

> one thing that you have to remember is that historically the staircase
> rooms were occupied by two students sharing.
>
> Now, I believe, they are single occupancy
>
> this does go some way to making them larger than normal for a single
> person

Historically in my College (St John's) almost all rooms were built for
single occupancy. In my first year I had a suite of 3 rooms and was
amazed to discover I was not sharing it. (But the bedroom only had a tiny
washbasin; the toilets and baths -- no showers! -- were across the
court.) Over the years that changed and sets with 3 students sharing are
certainly not unknown.

When staircases are upgraded, of course, the major consideration is the
conference trade, so tiny rooms with en suite become the norm.

Douglas de Lacey

[DR de Lacey]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:18:02 +0100, tim... wrote:


> If I was a post doc and I was offered the room that you are describing I
> would:
>
> a) be looking for accommodation on the open market

In Cambridge?

> b) be seriously
> considering whether my decision to further my career at this college was
> the correct decision - I'm assuming that people who get offered post
> dost at a Cambridge college really can pick and choose where they go.

As I recall, few post docs get a college affiliation. I think you are
confusing the intention of the block as designed, and the use to which it
is now being put by Girton College. I have no idea what scale of charges
the University has in mind for post docs on the site.

Douglas de Lacey

[Roland Perry]

In message <b4s*iw...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 16:34:57 on Sun,
17 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

Glad to have been of assistance.

>There is very little if any `privately built/let accommodation which is
>also ... in Eddington but isn't tied to any particular college (or
>indeed any particular University)' yet; though the University will be
>selling off private homes eventually (Hill Residential already have a
>show home I believe). Most of the accommodation

Built in addition to Swirle's Court?

>will be let by the University, to key workers, post docs and perhaps
>others.

Typical key workers (nurses, K12 teachers, firemen) won't be employed by
the Uni in more than token numbers. Plenty of post-docs will be working
for "Silicon Fen" companies, rather than the Uni.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <c4s*tx...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 16:39:58 on Sun,

17 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>> one thing that you have to remember is that historically the staircase
>> rooms were occupied by two students sharing.
>>
>> Now, I believe, they are single occupancy
>>
>> this does go some way to making them larger than normal for a single
>> person
>
>Historically in my College (St John's) almost all rooms were built for
>single occupancy.

As was the case in all colleges. Initially they'd have a sitting room, a
bedroom and a gyp room.

>In my first year I had a suite of 3 rooms

What were the rooms called?

>and was amazed to discover I was not sharing it. (But the bedroom only
>had a tiny washbasin;

Luxury!

>the toilets and baths -- no showers! -- were across the court.)

In that generation of build showers were unknown. One took a bath every
couple of weeks, whether one needed it or not.

>Over the years that changed and sets with 3 students sharing are
>certainly not unknown.

There was an imperative to increase occupation by doubling up, but the
set I occupied could hardly accommodate two single beds in the space
originally assigned for one.

>When staircases are upgraded, of course, the major consideration is the
>conference trade, so tiny rooms with en suite become the norm.

Churchill was one of the pioneers of configuring student rooms at build
with the main objective being conference trade. Not only en-suites, but
also landline phones.
--
Roland Perry

[DR de Lacey]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 17:39:24 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <c4s*tx...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 16:39:58 on Sun,
> 17 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:
>
>>> one thing that you have to remember is that historically the staircase
>>> rooms were occupied by two students sharing.
>>>
>>> Now, I believe, they are single occupancy
>>>
>>> this does go some way to making them larger than normal for a single
>>> person
>>
>>Historically in my College (St John's) almost all rooms were built for
>>single occupancy.
>
> As was the case in all colleges. Initially they'd have a sitting room, a
> bedroom and a gyp room.

Yes, I was replying to Tim's comment (>>> ut sup).

>
>>In my first year I had a suite of 3 rooms
>
> What were the rooms called?

Sitting room, bedroom and gyp, just like yours.

>>and was amazed to discover I was not sharing it. (But the bedroom only
>>had a tiny washbasin;
>
> Luxury!
>
>>the toilets and baths -- no showers! -- were across the court.)
>
> In that generation of build showers were unknown. One took a bath every
> couple of weeks, whether one needed it or not.

I was astounded, when organising a conference in the then-brand-new
Robinson, to discover that there was not a single shower in the College,
though every room had an en-suite bath.

>>Over the years that changed and sets with 3 students sharing are
>>certainly not unknown.
>
> There was an imperative to increase occupation by doubling up, but the
> set I occupied could hardly accommodate two single beds in the space
> originally assigned for one.

In our case the sitting room was dedicated to the other student (or
students; it was generally large enough for two) and we had to fight out
who had which.

Douglas de Lacey

[DR de Lacey]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 17:30:39 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

>>There is very little if any `privately built/let accommodation which is
>>also ... in Eddington but isn't tied to any particular college (or
>>indeed any particular University)' yet; though the University will be
>>selling off private homes eventually (Hill Residential already have a
>>show home I believe). Most of the accommodation
>
> Built in addition to Swirle's Court?

Yes.

>>will be let by the University, to key workers, post docs and perhaps
>>others.
>
> Typical key workers (nurses, K12 teachers, firemen) won't be employed by
> the Uni in more than token numbers. Plenty of post-docs will be working
> for "Silicon Fen" companies, rather than the Uni.

`Key workers' in this context means lab assistants, cleaners and their
ilk. Post-docs in the humanities (frex) would find it difficult to get
Silicon Fen to sponsor them.

Douglas de Lacey

[Theo]

'Post-docs' are fixed-term contract research workers for the University, who
are typically hired as Research Associates on Grade 7 (29K-38K), for those
with a PhD, or Grade 5 (25K-30K) without. In the humanities the position is
more commonly linked with a college (who may pay less but offer housing), on
a similar fixed-term basis.

People who work for tech companies aren't post-docs, they're just regular
employees (who might have a degree, a PhD, or neither), with the possible
exception of Microsoft Research who have a pseudo post-doc researcher track.

Post-doc contracts are often short term (can be as little as a few months)
and based on a specific source of funding - when the grant expires they will
often move on to another institution. That causes a somewhat different
housing requirement than tech workers who are typically hired as permanent
employees.

Theo

[Roland Perry]

In message <d4s*a1...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 18:46:43 on Sun,

17 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>>>the toilets and baths -- no showers! -- were across the court.)
>>
>> In that generation of build showers were unknown. One took a bath every
>> couple of weeks, whether one needed it or not.
>
>I was astounded, when organising a conference in the then-brand-new
>Robinson, to discover that there was not a single shower in the College,
>though every room had an en-suite bath.

Houses back then didn't often have en-suites, nor two bathrooms (even
for a 4bed house). So with one bathroom to fit out it would be a
no-brainer to have a bath. You probably couldn't have sold a house with
just a shower. Meanwhile cost and space considerations would rule out
having both in the one room.

>>>Over the years that changed and sets with 3 students sharing are
>>>certainly not unknown.
>>
>> There was an imperative to increase occupation by doubling up, but the
>> set I occupied could hardly accommodate two single beds in the space
>> originally assigned for one.
>
>In our case the sitting room was dedicated to the other student (or
>students; it was generally large enough for two) and we had to fight out
>who had which.

The bedroom in my set was far too small to be a bedsit (but the sitting
room would have been adequate for four), so we both shared both rooms. I
suppose greater attention to personal space in later years is what
spurred their conversion.
--
Roland Perry

[Andrew May]

On 16/09/2017 11:32, Espen Koht wrote:


> I'm not sure it's correct. Certainly by the building stage I don't
> remember anyone discussing these particular blocks as being anything
> other than "Purpose built for Graduates". Other types of accommodation
> are available or planned for the site, but Swirles Court is this:
>
> https://www.girton.cam.ac.uk/for-graduate-students/accommodation/graduate-accommodation-overview/swirles-court
>

Just looked at the pictures on that web page. Do they really have a bank
of washing machines in the middle of the public seating area?

[Roland Perry]

In message <b4s*K1...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 18:49:05 on Sun,

17 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>>>There is very little if any `privately built/let accommodation which is
>>>also ... in Eddington but isn't tied to any particular college (or
>>>indeed any particular University)' yet; though the University will be
>>>selling off private homes eventually (Hill Residential already have a
>>>show home I believe). Most of the accommodation
>>
>> Built in addition to Swirle's Court?
>
>Yes.

I occurs to me that being only available for 30+ (in the extreme 48)
weeks a year makes them unsuitable as permanent residences for workers.

Current rental is £167.25 pw, not the £200 claimed earlier.

>>>will be let by the University, to key workers, post docs and perhaps
>>>others.
>>
>> Typical key workers (nurses, K12 teachers, firemen) won't be employed by
>> the Uni in more than token numbers. Plenty of post-docs will be working
>> for "Silicon Fen" companies, rather than the Uni.
>
>`Key workers' in this context means lab assistants, cleaners and their
>ilk. Post-docs in the humanities (frex) would find it difficult to get
>Silicon Fen to sponsor them.

Mission creep alive and well... :)

However with minimum wage at £285pw, this kind of accommodation is
unlikely to be affordable unless significantly subsidised. And those
residents won't be able to afford to shop at Sainbury's!
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <opo27o$qkm$1...@dont-email.me>, at 10:04:54 on Mon, 18 Sep
2017, Andrew May <andrew...@hotmail.com> remarked:

Why not. Think of it as a posh Laundromat were you can while away the
hour or two doing some work, drinking coffee or engaging in pleasant
conversation :) Keeping the punters close by avoids "queue blockers" on
the machines, which can easily happen if they wander off back to their
room.
--
Roland Perry

[tim...]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vH81sfl8...@perry.co.uk...

but not the room (block) that I stayed in (during a conference!)

tim


> --
> Roland Perry

[tim...]

"DR de Lacey" <de...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:b4s*eJ...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

> On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:18:02 +0100, tim... wrote:
>
>
>> If I was a post doc and I was offered the room that you are describing I
>> would:
>>
>> a) be looking for accommodation on the open market
>
> In Cambridge?

It exists

And in the suburbs, it isn't out of line with the quoted 200 pw if two are
sharing a 2 bed property

Of course you have to be looking for it outside of the peak period :-(

>> b) be seriously
>> considering whether my decision to further my career at this college was
>> the correct decision - I'm assuming that people who get offered post
>> dost at a Cambridge college really can pick and choose where they go.
>
> As I recall, few post docs get a college affiliation. I think you are
> confusing the intention of the block as designed, and the use to which it
> is now being put by Girton College.

I'm not confusing anything

I was relying on what the PP told me

tim

[tim...]

"Theo" <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:o1r*Ts...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

Ah, I didn't realise that

I thought that they were long term opportunities

all makes sense now

tim

[Alan]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:32:56 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

Queue blockers? Forty+ years ago, if a machine was finished and no-one to
empty it, you just emptied it into one of the laundry baskets and got on
with yours. No-one dreamed of sitting around a campus laundry room,
waiting for the thing to finish.

--
Alan

Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.y6rt4vcx72n0pf@alan>, at 18:13:33 on Mon, 18 Sep 2017,
Alan <es....@ourmailbox.org.uk> remarked

>>> Just looked at the pictures on that web page. Do they really have a
>>>bank of washing machines in the middle of the public seating area?
>>
>> Why not. Think of it as a posh Laundromat were you can while away the
>>hour or two doing some work, drinking coffee or engaging in pleasant
>>conversation :) Keeping the punters close by avoids "queue blockers"
>>on the machines, which can easily happen if they wander off back to
>>their room.
>
>Queue blockers? Forty+ years ago, if a machine was finished and no-one
>to empty it, you just emptied it into one of the laundry baskets

which were all stolen years ago

>and got on with yours. No-one dreamed of sitting around a campus
>laundry room, waiting for the thing to finish.

Not if they were uncomfortable.
--
Roland Perry

[DR de Lacey]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:04:40 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:


> I[t] occurs to me that being only available for 30+ (in the extreme 48)

> weeks a year makes them unsuitable as permanent residences for workers.

Err, the University is building a lot of blocks of accommodation. I
suggest the model is more likely to be that some will be for workers,
others for academics. In each case the model was never undergraduate
accommodation. But since Girton has taken over the whole of Swirles
Court, the College can do with it what it likes.

Incidentally, I wonder how many of the residents (or readers of this
group) will identify Swirles with the second half of that great textbook
Jeffreys and Jeffreys?

Douglas de Lacey

[Roland Perry]

In message <vni*88...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 07:45:05 on Tue,
19 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>> I[t] occurs to me that being only available for 30+ (in the extreme 48)
>> weeks a year makes them unsuitable as permanent residences for workers.
>
>Err, the University is building a lot of blocks of accommodation. I
>suggest the model is more likely to be that some will be for workers,
>others for academics.

I'm still picking over the bones of Swirles Court "and Oh What Have
Girton Done".

>In each case the model was never undergraduate
>accommodation. But since Girton has taken over the whole of Swirles
>Court, the College can do with it what it likes.
>
>Incidentally, I wonder how many of the residents (or readers of this
>group) will identify Swirles with the second half of that great textbook
>Jeffreys and Jeffreys?

Not I, have never heard the name before.
--
Roland Perry

[Alan]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:22:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

> In message <op.y6rt4vcx72n0pf@alan>, at 18:13:33 on Mon, 18 Sep 2017,
> Alan <es....@ourmailbox.org.uk> remarked
>>>> Just looked at the pictures on that web page. Do they really have a
>>>> bank of washing machines in the middle of the public seating area?
>>>
>>> Why not. Think of it as a posh Laundromat were you can while away the
>>> hour or two doing some work, drinking coffee or engaging in pleasant
>>> conversation :) Keeping the punters close by avoids "queue blockers"
>>> on the machines, which can easily happen if they wander off back to
>>> their room.
>>
>> Queue blockers? Forty+ years ago, if a machine was finished and no-one
>> to empty it, you just emptied it into one of the laundry baskets
>
> which were all stolen years ago

Ah, I didn't go to a Cambridge University.

>
>> and got on with yours. No-one dreamed of sitting around a campus
>> laundry room, waiting for the thing to finish.
>
> Not if they were uncomfortable.


--

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <Kmksklbh...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Shame on you, Roland! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_Swirles

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.y6topaae72n0pf@alan>, at 18:11:24 on Tue, 19 Sep 2017,

Alan <es....@ourmailbox.org.uk> remarked:

>>>>> Just looked at the pictures on that web page. Do they really have
>>>>>a bank of washing machines in the middle of the public seating area?
>>>>
>>>> Why not. Think of it as a posh Laundromat were you can while away
>>>>the hour or two doing some work, drinking coffee or engaging in
>>>>pleasant conversation :) Keeping the punters close by avoids
>>>>"queue blockers" on the machines, which can easily happen if
>>>>they wander off back to their room.
>>>
>>> Queue blockers? Forty+ years ago, if a machine was finished and
>>>no-one to empty it, you just emptied it into one of the laundry
>>>baskets
>>
>> which were all stolen years ago
>
>Ah, I didn't go to a Cambridge University.

Nor did I go to one with a laundrette. My anecdata is from elsewhere.
--
Roland Perry

[Paul Hardy]

All very 20th century. The new student accommodation at Sidney Sussex has a
bank of washing machines that are internet linked, and an app is available
so students can monitor the progress of their wash, and be informed when
the wash has finished. Are the Girton ones not as sophisticated?


--
Paul at the paulhardy.net domain

[Roland Perry]

In message
<2074979529.527595615.29885...@news.individual.net
>, at 11:24:13 on Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Paul Hardy
<p.g....@btinternet.com> remarked:

>Alan <es....@ourmailbox.org.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:32:56 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just looked at the pictures on that web page. Do they really have a
>>>> bank of washing machines in the middle of the public seating area?
>>>
>>> Why not. Think of it as a posh Laundromat were you can while away the
>>> hour or two doing some work, drinking coffee or engaging in pleasant
>>> conversation :) Keeping the punters close by avoids "queue blockers" on
>>> the machines, which can easily happen if they wander off back to their
>>> room.
>>
>> Queue blockers? Forty+ years ago, if a machine was finished and no-one to
>> empty it, you just emptied it into one of the laundry baskets and got on
>> with yours. No-one dreamed of sitting around a campus laundry room,
>> waiting for the thing to finish.
>
>All very 20th century. The new student accommodation at Sidney Sussex

Which accommodation? I seems to get ever more balkanised over multiple
locations.

>has a bank of washing machines that are internet linked, and an app is
>available so students can monitor the progress of their wash, and be
>informed when the wash has finished.

You still have to be inclined to go back and deal with it once alerted.

>Are the Girton ones not as sophisticated?

Something in the old days a clockwork timer would have achieved.

The kicker is that once you've left the immediate vicinity you can get
caught up in something much more interesting or urgent to do.
--
Roland Perry

[Alan]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

A very famous Cambridge physicist?

[Alan]

Yea, that's the one.

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.y6vjxqmb72n0pf@alan>, at 18:23:40 on Wed, 20 Sep 2017,
Alan <es....@ourmailbox.org.uk> remarked:

>> Not I, have never heard the name before.
>
>A very famous Cambridge physicist?

I've heard of at least a dozen very famous ones, sadly not this
particular individual.
--
Roland Perry

[Paul Hardy]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> <p.g....@btinternet.com> remarked:

>> All very 20th century. The new student accommodation at Sidney Sussex
>

> Which accommodation? It seems to get ever more balkanised over multiple
> locations.

Sussex Court and Harrington court, on the other side of the bridge across
Sussex St.

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article
<1475340322.527636006.47668...@news.individual.net>,

p.g....@btinternet.com (Paul Hardy) wrote:

> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> > <p.g....@btinternet.com> remarked:
> >> All very 20th century. The new student accommodation at Sidney Sussex
> >
> > Which accommodation? It seems to get ever more balkanised over
> > multiple locations.
>
> Sussex Court and Harrington court, on the other side of the bridge across
> Sussex St.

Oh! It used to be Sussex House and Harrington House. Sussex House was
offices and was converted to student rooms years ago but Harrington House
had some rather nice family flats and has only recently been converted AIUI.
There was also Kent House next to Harrington House. What's happened to those
flats?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[Anthony Frost]

In message <-ISdnV1qnseNZV_E...@giganews.com>

rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> Oh! It used to be Sussex House and Harrington House. Sussex House was
> offices and was converted to student rooms years ago but Harrington House
> had some rather nice family flats and has only recently been converted AIUI.
> There was also Kent House next to Harrington House. What's happened to those
> flats?

They still are X House. Sussex got another refurb a couple of summers
ago, Harrington is going through one currently converting most of the
flats to student rooms. I think the new laundry was built in two of the
garages under Blundell Court but as I don't do my washing at work I've
not had the need to investigate.

Anthony

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <8e7ee27e56%Vu...@kerrier.vulch.org>, Vu...@vulch.org (Anthony

Thanks. And Kent House?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[Roland Perry]

In message <8e7ee27e56%Vu...@kerrier.vulch.org>, at 06:13:22 on Thu, 21
Sep 2017, Anthony Frost <Vu...@vulch.org> remarked:

> > Oh! It used to be Sussex House and Harrington House. Sussex House was
> > offices and was converted to student rooms years ago but Harrington House
> > had some rather nice family flats and has only recently been converted AIUI.
> > There was also Kent House next to Harrington House. What's happened to those
> > flats?
>
>They still are X House. Sussex got another refurb a couple of summers
>ago, Harrington is going through one currently converting most of the
>flats to student rooms. I think the new laundry was built in two of the
>garages under Blundell Court

Agh! So nothing especially to do with Sussex/Harrington after all.
Unless Blundell and Garden Court (etc) students are barred.

> but as I don't do my washing at work I've not had the need to
>investigate.

--
Roland Perry

[DR de Lacey]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

> In message <vni*88...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 07:45:05 on Tue,
> 19 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:
>>> I[t] occurs to me that being only available for 30+ (in the extreme
>>> 48)
>>> weeks a year makes them unsuitable as permanent residences for
>>> workers.
>>
>>Err, the University is building a lot of blocks of accommodation. I
>>suggest the model is more likely to be that some will be for workers,
>>others for academics.
>
> I'm still picking over the bones of Swirles Court "and Oh What Have
> Girton Done".

Yes: the university has built a lot of courts whose rooms it intends to
let as permanent (ie year-long) residences. All Girton College has done
is to take over a whole court for its own use. Whether it was named
Swirles in honour of that fact I do not know; the name was already one
which the University had decided to use.

Douglas de Lacey

[Paul Hardy]

No, the machines I saw were definitely on the other side of Sussex St,
across the bridge. Nowhere near Blundell. This was on a tour of the college
at some alumni event last year.

But yes, S/Court/House/W. It does look as if they aren't called Courts.
Logical as no space in middle, but Blundell is a court even though it is a
solid block.

Regards,

[Roland Perry]

In message <KyB*LT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 17:49:24 on Thu,
21 Sep 2017, DR de Lacey <de...@cam.ac.uk> remarked:

>>>> I[t] occurs to me that being only available for 30+ (in the extreme
>>>>48) weeks a year makes them unsuitable as permanent residences for
>>>>workers.
>>>
>>>Err, the University is building a lot of blocks of accommodation. I
>>>suggest the model is more likely to be that some will be for workers,
>>>others for academics.
>>
>> I'm still picking over the bones of Swirles Court "and Oh What Have
>> Girton Done".
>
>Yes: the university has built a lot of courts whose rooms it intends to
>let as permanent (ie year-long) residences. All Girton College has done
>is to take over a whole court for its own use.

You are missing the point, which is that when designing flats there's a
big difference between them being a transit camp 40wks a year for
someone who has a permanent home elsewhere; and being itself a permanent
home.

Trivial example: does it have somewhere to store an Xmas tree and
decorations 50 weeks of the year, and enough space to prepare and host
an Xmas dinner for a not very extended family of eight? I'll have to
forego having anywhere for the Xmas party to sleep.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message
<1457557488.527714307.45299...@news.individual.net
>, at 20:35:12 on Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Paul Hardy
<p.g....@btinternet.com> remarked:

>But yes, S/Court/House/W. It does look as if they aren't called Courts.
>Logical as no space in middle, but Blundell is a court even though it is a
>solid block.

Ditto Garden Court (1930's?)
--
Roland Perry

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <Tl2aENBs...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
wrote:

Apart from the top floor added after Blundell was built.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

[Tim Ward]

On 21/09/2017 20:55, Roland Perry wrote:
>
> Trivial example: does it have somewhere to store an Xmas tree

... which one might call a "garden". Indeed quite a lot of flats don't
have such a thing.

--
Tim Ward - 07801 703 600
www.brettward.co.uk

[Roland Perry]

In message <Ea2dncGscvLJglnE...@giganews.com>, at 15:21:40
on Thu, 21 Sep 2017, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:

>> >But yes, S/Court/House/W. It does look as if they aren't called Courts.
>> >Logical as no space in middle, but Blundell is a court even though it is
>> >a solid block.
>>
>> Ditto Garden Court (1930's?)
>
>Apart from the top floor added after Blundell was built.

What's more court-like about that top floor?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <cdVwB.1106048$7a2.1...@fx26.am4>, at 21:23:34 on Thu, 21
Sep 2017, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> remarked:

>> Trivial example: does it have somewhere to store an Xmas tree
>... which one might call a "garden". Indeed quite a lot of flats don't
>have such a thing.

I meant a five foot artificial one.
--
Roland Perry

[Tim Ward]

That folds up into a cardboard cylinder which lives behind the sofa.

[rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk]

In article <rUyEIAI$HCxZ...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
wrote:

The internal layout is surprisingly different from that of the floors below,
IIRC.

--
Colin Rosenstiel