OT: You have to larf

[The Natural Philosopher]

"Economist Jeff Currie of Goldman Sachs (Global Head of Commodities
Research in the Global Investment Research Division): “Here’s a stat for
you, as of January of this year. At the end of last year, overall,
fossil fuels represented 81 percent of overall energy consumption. Ten
years ago, they were at 82. So though, all of that investment in
renewables, you’re talking about 3.8 trillion, let me repeat that $3.8
trillion of investment in renewables moved fossil fuel consumption from
82 to 81 percent, of the overall energy consumption. But you know, given
the recent events and what’s happened with the loss of gas and replacing
it with coal, that number is likely above 82.” … The net of it is
clearly we haven’t made any progress.”"

So where did that $3.8 trillion actually *go*
Into green envelopes to policy makes in the White house, Brussels,
Australia and New Zealand parliaments, JustinThyme Trudeaux...

And of course the pockets of the people in the wind and solar business
who got GUARANTEED returns on investment, whether their crap actually
worked to reduce emissions, or not.

And if you look at the CO2 in the air at

https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/

Its clear that £3.8 trillion has been spent with * no discernible effect
whatsoever*.
Which is exactly what people who understand electricity generation have
been saying for a decade. Holistically, renewable energy makes no
difference to emissions.

Meanwhile our new PM, has reintroduced the ban on Fracking by setting an
impossible constraint 'unless science can prove its safe' as if science
ever could prove any positive ever - its philosophically impossible -
and is set to thereby increase energy prices, increase inflation which
will be countered by the bank of England increasing interest rates
which, given that mortgages are an even bigger component of expenditure,
increase inflation even more...

.. there is no positive feedback in the climate, but by 'eck, Mildred,
Dishi fishy has managed to smack it into economics as interest rates
rises cause inflation cause interest rate rises...

You thought Liz truss was the worst PM ever.

I Bring you the Brown Goblin.

Hang on to your savings and emigrate NOW.

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

[farter]

Where are you emigrating to ?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I'll probably go where the government is just as corrupt, but doesnt
bother to deny it.
South Africa
I like Africans.
They lie a lot, but they aren't very good at it.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

[Andrew]

They're quite handy with guns, willies and general theft too.

[Tim Ward]

On 26/10/2022 18:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>

> I'll probably go where the government is just as corrupt, but doesnt
> bother to deny it.

Our government doesn't make any serious attempt to bother to deny it!

> I like Africans.
> They lie a lot, but they aren't very good at it.

Neither are our lot!

--
Tim Ward - 07801 703 600
www.brettward.co.uk

[farter]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 04:44:31 +1100, The Natural Philosopher

Do they still allow anyone who wants to migrate there to do that ?

What are you planning to take with you hijack proof car wise ?

[Joe]

South Africa may not be a great idea at the moment if you're white.
They have apartheid there, only now it's the virtuous kind.

--
Joe

[Peeler]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 05:16:56 +1100, farter, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 26/10/2022 19:07, Tim Ward wrote:
> On 26/10/2022 18:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> I'll probably go where the government is just as corrupt, but doesnt
>> bother to deny it.
>
> Our government doesn't make any serious attempt to bother to deny it!
>
>> I like Africans.
>> They lie a lot, but they aren't very good at it.
>
> Neither are our lot!
>

Oh they are SERIOUSLY better at it.,
In SA the president employs his extended family = tribe to essentially
run every civil service and hands off all the state funded work to
subcontractors in the family too.

Jacob Zumas lawyer went so far as to claim that 'corruption...is a
western concept and doesn't apply to Africans'

Here sons and daughters get 'non executive board positions that pay
£20,000 a year for doing nothing, and saudi princelings get 'sales
commission' for bribing the right people.

Tony Blair made millions out of huge loans to buy property, then he
finagled the interest rates to create a housing boom and made several
million profit on buy to lets etc.

Technically that is insider trading. No one denies he did it, but he has
never been prosecuted

I prefer the blatant 'my government, my tribe, my money'

Mind you zimbawe went a bit too far.

"Democracy means one man, one vote, and *I am that man*" Robert Mugabe.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its OK down in the Cape, and if you dont need to earn a living.
Not sure I'd want to go anywhere near Joburg these days.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yeah, but its mostly money they want, unlike British Muslims, who carry
hatred around.



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

[The Natural Philosopher]

There isn't much car jacking except in Joburg/Pretoria.

My family havent had any issues in the last 5 years bar when niece broke
down outside Crossroads and they stile her smart phone and all her cash.

Just stay on the reservation and you are OK mostly

Every where you park your car a smiling black face will 'look after it'
for loose change. And they do. I guess a lot goes to the local
godfather, but they dont trash the cars.
I think that's a reasonable deal - its cheaper than Campbridge parking
by several pounds. Its direct redistribution of wealth without passing
through a corrupt government


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

[farter]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 06:50:21 +1100, The Natural Philosopher

Why do you believe that it will do better than the UK now ?

[Peeler]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 07:04:28 +1100, farter, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>

[Fredxx]

And you don't exude hatred?

[SteveW]

On 26/10/2022 20:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/10/2022 19:21, Joe wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 18:44:31 +0100
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/10/2022 18:32, farter wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Where are you emigrating to ?
>>>
>>> I'll probably go where the government is just as corrupt, but doesnt
>>> bother to deny it.
>>> South Africa
>>> I like Africans.
>>> They lie a lot, but they aren't very good at it.
>>>
>> South Africa may not be a great idea at the moment if you're white.
>> They have apartheid there, only now it's the virtuous kind.
>>
> Its OK down in the Cape, and if you dont need to earn a living.
> Not sure I'd want to go anywhere near Joburg these days.

Even back in the mid-'90s, the first question one of my colleagues was
asked at reception, when he visited our Jo'burg office was, "Do you have
a gun?" When he responded negatively, the second was, "Do you want one?"

[SteveW]

My aunt is a teacher and took a school trip to SA. She and her daughter
were robbed at gunpoint.

[Richard]

On 26/10/2022 20:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Hurry up and go then.
FFS don't give lame excuses for not doing so.

[Brian Gaff]

I think you over simplify things. The problem is that a lot of the world is
still developing, mainly because we in the west demand cheap labour. Those
countries need power to make the stuff we use. As we demand cheap, they use
what they can do fast and affordably, coal and oil. So although if you could
partition the earths atmosphere we have made progress, its completely
negated by countries who make our stuff who need cheap energy, as we all
kknow you cannot partition the atmosphere.
As for the economics. The capitalist and socialist systems do not work, you
need to stop calling certain policies socialist or monetarist, and look on
the world as a whole. Sadly that will never happen. there is enough of
everything to go around, but everybody wants a bigger share.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:tjbn39$2gffh$1...@dont-email.me...

> "Economist Jeff Currie of Goldman Sachs (Global Head of Commodities
> Research in the Global Investment Research Division): "Here's a stat for
> you, as of January of this year. At the end of last year, overall, fossil
> fuels represented 81 percent of overall energy consumption. Ten years ago,
> they were at 82. So though, all of that investment in renewables, you're
> talking about 3.8 trillion, let me repeat that $3.8 trillion of investment
> in renewables moved fossil fuel consumption from 82 to 81 percent, of the
> overall energy consumption. But you know, given the recent events and what's
> happened with the loss of gas and replacing it with coal, that number is

> likely above 82." . The net of it is clearly we haven't made any

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:06:43 +1100, Brian Gaff <brian...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think you over simplify things. The problem is that a lot of the world
> is
> still developing, mainly because we in the west demand cheap labour.
> Those
> countries need power to make the stuff we use. As we demand cheap, they
> use
> what they can do fast and affordably, coal and oil. So although if you
> could
> partition the earths atmosphere we have made progress, its completely
> negated by countries who make our stuff who need cheap energy, as we all
> kknow you cannot partition the atmosphere.

> As for the economics. The capitalist and socialist systems do not work,

Corse they do, and a hell of a lot better than the alternatives.

> you
> need to stop calling certain policies socialist or monetarist, and look
> on
> the world as a whole.

Not even possible.

> Sadly that will never happen. there is enough of
> everything to go around, but everybody wants a bigger share.

I don't.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I dint have one when I was there in the dying days of White Supremacy,
but last time I went to stay - around 1998 - the girl I went to see
said that she generally loses a handbag, credit card and mobile phone
every year. Even in safe areas under security guards, people just
'steam' through the crowds grabbing handbags and cutting straps with
knives. Everything is behind at least 8ft walls topped with razor wire
and alarmed, and everyone has as a condition of insurance, a contract
with a 24 x 7 armed response security firm. You don't go out at night.
Not on a street anyway. You might visit friends. And you don't leave any
cars on the street either.

Makes for a tidy looking neighbourhood.

That's Jo'burg. Its better elsewhere. In rural areas you pay protection
to the local crime boss, and you get left alone. Mostly.



--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

[The Natural Philosopher]

She probably didn't understand the situation. She should not have been
in a place where that was possible

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

[Peeler]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:06:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Pomegranate Bastard addressing the trolling senile cretin from Oz:
"Surely you can find an Australian group to pollute rather than posting
your unwanted guff here."
MID: <c1pqvgte5ldlo1rn3...@4ax.com>

[The Natural Philosopher]

Why are you so keen?


Do I represent a threat to you?

--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 27/10/2022 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Sadly that will never happen. there is enough of
> everything to go around, but everybody wants a bigger share.

2 points arising.
1. There isn't enough to go round. We are approaching peak oil, and
orthogonal to faux climate arguments, we do need to transition away from
it, BUT right now those who control fossil energy have every reason to
promote renewables, because these raise the cost of energy and do not
affect fossil fuel usage.
They WANT a scarcity of fossil fuel as it results in a net transfer of
more wealth into their pockets.
2/. The worst thing that could happen from their point of view, would be
an independent Britain outside the cartels control, fracking gas and
building affordable nuclear power stations.

And finally, at a tangent, the whole of left wing thing is predicated on
the assumption that there is a fixed amount of wealth and politics is
about cointrolling who gets it.

What was Liz Truss trying to do?
Frack gas, roll back net zero and build nuclear power, and generate wealth.
She had to go.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not really, no. I understand why people hate other people, but its not
my thing really. I am rational. Mostly. I leave emotional narratives to
the Left. I don't believe in human rights, I don't believe in equality,
and I don't believe that big centralised governments are any more moral
that a small nation state, in fact they are probably less, and I don't
believe that in general the state has any particularly effective role in
regulating peoples private lives. Democracy is money in the bank and a
credit card, and you spend it on what you want, not what the state says
you can should must or will have.


Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and muslims,
and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I have ever seen
was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who used to work in
Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons car.

You have to understand the family issues and the role that pride and
shame plays in the cultures of that part of the world. There is intense
pride, and with that goes terrible crippling shame, and that turns very
easily into the sort of hatred that leads someone to wear a suicide bomb.

It is those negative emotions that the Left plays upon in everyone, to
reassure them that whatever goes wrong, its because *someone else* is
doing it to you.
Labour party is rife with racism and sexism. Marxism is the ideal tool
to turn shame at your own inadequacies into hatred of someone else's
lack of them, Unfortunately Islam too has a victim mentality inbuilt. In
order to justify its own strict morality, it has to alienate anyone who
isn't Muslim. And so there are believers, and infidels, and infidels
deserve to be lied to and cheated , relegated to the lowest possible
status, and in the final extreme, killed. That's not from the educated
muslim, sure, but that is the less educated populist bazaarhi culture of
Iran and Pakistan.

As I said, I like Africans, they are like the UK old fashioned working
class, by turns lazy, shiftless, casually immoral and pretty light
fingered, but capable of hard work, full of laughter, and in general
wont mess with you unless desperate, on drugs, or if you mess with them.
But its not done in hatred. Only the ones that have been exposed to
Marxism are like that, murdering isolated farmers.

I dont make distinctions based on skin colour but I sure make
distinctions based on culture.

People behave according to the pictures in their minds, and those
pictures are put there by propgandists in order to manipulate them.

How dies the old (natribe american ) Indian story go.
"In my mind, there are two wolves, one is black, and one is white, and
they fight for control of my actions"
"And which one will win?"
"Whichever one I feed".

When I hear 'brexshitter' I recognise a mind that has been corrupted
into irrational unreason by propaganda. A resentment and bigotry. A
person who feels superior enough to feed his negativity.

To return to the thread, I regard Rishi Sunak as possibly the worst
prime minster there has ever been, even worse than Blair.

And he, or rather his handlers, are firmly committed to taxing us to
pay for a technology that simply does not work.

*shrug* I may be wrong, but I feel like a Jew in 1930s Germany right
now. Nobody wants to listen, nobody except other Jews believed in what
was going down, and until the Allies walked into Belsen and took photos
and sent them home, everyone believed that the stories about death camps
were just propaganda.

People say they cant understand how the Nazis came to power, or how they
became popular. I can. All too well. There is a Nazi fascist in
everyone, all you have to do is feed it.
Today its not Jews, its 'hard right populists, racists, sexists,
Brexshitters, gender phobes, xenophobes, climate deniers' - anyone who
is in the way of the totalitarian left wing mind set is ruthlessly
'cancelled', not by rational argument, but by attaching emotive labels
to them and claiming they are 'offensive'

The likes of Just Stop Oil, Extinction Rebellion, well funded (by whom?
and who benefits?) organisations, are practising for their 'Crystallnacht' .

There is really bad shit going down right now. Democracy is being
dismantled and discredited deliberately. Rule by bigotry and emotion is
being promoted, and the cult of the Glorious Leader, is rearing its ugly
head, except in our culture its not a Glorious Leaders, its a 'safe
steady pair of hands, in a suit'

Faugh! How many here believe that in fact a proper educated professional
is the way to run a country and if the plebs wont vote for them then the
plebs must be manipulated into giving up the vote altogether?

NO ONE outside professional politicians voted for Rishi Sunak. And yet,
there he is, representing no one but the city, global finance and the
professional politicians.

CUI BONO?

No one voted for renewable energy, and yet everyone is installing it. It
demonstrably doesn't for for its (alleged) intended purpose and its
possible to prove that to people with a deep engineering background.

Yet there it is

CUI BONO?

Dont say I didnt warn you.

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

[Fredxx]

On 27/10/2022 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/10/2022 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Sadly that will never happen. there is enough of
>> everything to go around, but everybody wants a bigger share.
>
> 2 points arising.
> 1. There isn't enough to go round. We are approaching peak oil, and
> orthogonal to faux climate arguments, we do need to transition away from
> it, BUT right now those who control fossil energy have every reason to
> promote renewables, because these raise the cost of energy and do not
> affect fossil fuel usage.
> They WANT a scarcity of fossil fuel as it results in a net transfer of
> more wealth into their pockets.
> 2/. The worst thing that could happen from their point of view, would be
> an independent Britain outside the cartels control, fracking gas and
> building affordable nuclear power stations.
>
> And finally, at a tangent, the whole of left wing thing is predicated on
> the assumption that there is a fixed amount of wealth and politics is
> about cointrolling who gets it.
>
> What was Liz Truss trying to do?
> Frack gas, roll back net zero and build nuclear power, and generate wealth.
> She had to go.

She had to go for her U-turn, and her "socialist" magical money tree.

You have a very myopic view of things.

[Another Dave]

On 26/10/2022 5:26 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> "Economist Jeff Currie of Goldman Sachs (Global Head of Commodities
> Research in the Global Investment Research Division): “Here’s a stat for
> you, as of January of this year. At the end of last year, overall,
> fossil fuels represented 81 percent of overall energy consumption. Ten
> years ago, they were at 82. So though, all of that investment in
> renewables, you’re talking about 3.8 trillion, let me repeat that $3.8
> trillion of investment in renewables moved fossil fuel consumption from
> 82 to 81 percent, of the overall energy consumption. But you know, given
> the recent events and what’s happened with the loss of gas and replacing
> it with coal, that number is likely above 82.” … The net of it is
> clearly we haven’t made any progress.”"
>
> So where did that $3.8 trillion actually *go*
> Into green envelopes to policy makes in the White house, Brussels,
> Australia and New Zealand parliaments, JustinThyme Trudeaux...
>
> And of course the pockets of the people in the wind and solar business
> who got GUARANTEED returns on investment, whether their crap actually
> worked to reduce emissions, or not.
>

BTW didn't the ban on onshore wind get lifted? Has that decision been
reversed?

Another Dave

--
Change nospam to techie

[Fredxx]

You are in denial that your narrative is emotional.

> I don't believe in human rights

It's long been obvious you don't care for fellow human beings. I guess
life has dealt you with a bad hand, or as some would say an appropriate
one given your attitude to others around you. You remind me of T i m .

[Andrew]

On 26/10/2022 20:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


>  In SA the president employs his extended family = tribe to essentially
> run every civil service and hands off all the state funded work to
> subcontractors in the family too.
>

So just like Boris' chumocracy mates who got all those juicy
(secret) contracts to supply PPI, while Randox got a massive
contract for PCR testing (with its paid adviser, that well
known discredited MP who tried to cling onto power by getting
MP's to change their own rules on paid-for questions).

[Andrew]

On 27/10/2022 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/10/2022 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Sadly that will never happen. there is enough of
>> everything to go around, but everybody wants a bigger share.
>
> 2 points arising.
> 1. There isn't enough to go round. We are approaching peak oil,

Nonsense. We are using oil more efficiently, notably where
vehicles are concerned. There is a humugous amount of oil off the
Atlantic coast north of Brazil, Venezuala and other countries.
Ditto under the Arctic, plus gas galore.

We will run out of affordable drinking water long before we run out
of oil.

> What was Liz Truss trying to do?
> Frack gas, roll back net zero and build nuclear power, and generate wealth.
> She had to go.

She reset the 13 year period of low/negative interest rates almost
overnight. She almost forced solid companies like Legal & General, and
others into liquidation when their 'carefully' designed
Liability-Driven Investments (for funding historical *private*
Defined Benefit pension schemes) were in danger of collapsing
one Monday morning, when the pound dropped to $1.03 and overseas
holders of gilts dumped them in a fire sale.

Our geology would never produce the amount of gas that it does
in North America.
Britain is ex-growth. a 40 year obsession with house prices have
made us uniquely vulnerable to even a minor increase in interest
rates. All that mythical 'wealth' should have been taxed more
progressively (and NO loopholes) over the whole period.

[Richard]

Your whining is irritating.
You won't go because you know what a shithole South Africa has become.

You got your Brexit (I voted for it too) so now stay and suffer the
consequences, emigrate to South Africa or STFU.

[Rod Speed]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 02:47:26 +1100, Andrew
<Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

> On 27/10/2022 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 27/10/2022 08:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Sadly that will never happen. there is enough of
>>> everything to go around, but everybody wants a bigger share.
>> 2 points arising.
>> 1. There isn't enough to go round. We are approaching peak oil,
>
> Nonsense. We are using oil more efficiently, notably where
> vehicles are concerned. There is a humugous amount of oil off the
> Atlantic coast north of Brazil, Venezuala and other countries.
> Ditto under the Arctic, plus gas galore.

Yes.

> We will run out of affordable drinking water long before we run out
> of oil.

Nope. It is very affordable to desal and not waste water on lawns etc.
And desal plants don't even need to have high running costs because
they work well with wind power and solar.

>> What was Liz Truss trying to do?
>> Frack gas, roll back net zero and build nuclear power, and generate
>> wealth.
>> She had to go.
>
> She reset the 13 year period of low/negative interest rates almost
> overnight.

But the rest of the first world got that too, so it wasn't just her policy.

> She almost forced solid companies like Legal & General, and
> others into liquidation when their 'carefully' designed
> Liability-Driven Investments (for funding historical *private*
> Defined Benefit pension schemes) were in danger of collapsing
> one Monday morning, when the pound dropped to $1.03 and overseas
> holders of gilts dumped them in a fire sale.
>
> Our geology would never produce the amount of gas that it does
> in North America.
> Britain is ex-growth.

The entire first world is.

> a 40 year obsession with house prices have
> made us uniquely vulnerable to even a minor increase in interest
> rates.

That's bullshit too on the uniquely.

> All that mythical 'wealth' should have been taxed more
> progressively (and NO loopholes)

Not even possible.

> over the whole period.

Not politically feasible.

[billy bookcase]

"Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
news:jrvv2b...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be racist".


I doubt anyone has ever seriously made such a claim.

But what they have claimed, is that its only white people who
ever founded entire Empires on the basis of supposed racial
superiority


bb

[Peeler]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 05:22:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$2...@dont-email.me>

[Rod Speed]

That's bullshit, blacks, asians, arabs etc ALL did that.

[Fredxx]

On 27/10/2022 19:54, billy bookcase wrote:
> "Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
> news:jrvv2b...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be racist".
>
>
> I doubt anyone has ever seriously made such a claim.

That is not true. I have listened to articles on the radio, and the
basis of racism is discrimination and power. As such minorities are not
seen as having power and therefore by definition cannot be racist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power

Yes, I know it's nonsense and many minorities have racist members (my
definition and probably yours), but the issue for me is such racism is
acceptable, in much the same way Angela Ledsom said that men shouldn't
work with vulnerable people and still kept her ministerial job.

Ironically NP will back her all the way and ignore such sexism.

> But what they have claimed, is that its only white people who
> ever founded entire Empires on the basis of supposed racial
> superiority

I think organisation and weaponry might have swayed any battles?

[Joe]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 16:47:26 +0100
Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:


> She reset the 13 year period of low/negative interest rates almost
> overnight.

Reset? The average base rate for many, many decades was between four and
five percent, and we aren't anywhere near that. It needs to be at that
level for the economy to function reasonably normally, not in casino
mode.

> She almost forced solid companies like Legal & General, and
> others into liquidation when their 'carefully' designed
> Liability-Driven Investments (for funding historical *private*
> Defined Benefit pension schemes) were in danger of collapsing
> one Monday morning, when the pound dropped to $1.03 and overseas
> holders of gilts dumped them in a fire sale.

Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
including my own son. As I said to Speed the other day, the process of
restoring a workable interest rate will be very painful. He used his
favourite word in reply, of course. Put the blame where it belongs, on
the West's central banks, and whoever they take their orders from.

>
> Our geology would never produce the amount of gas that it does
> in North America.
> Britain is ex-growth. a 40 year obsession with house prices have
> made us uniquely vulnerable to even a minor increase in interest
> rates. All that mythical 'wealth' should have been taxed more
> progressively (and NO loopholes) over the whole period.
>

And where would the money to pay this hypothetical tax have come from?
As you say, the 'wealth' is mythical. Not a single penny of it exists
in legal tender (i.e. a form acceptable to HMRC) until the house is
sold, and very few people have a spare house in their back pockets.

Most people have no control at all over the amount of money banks and
the few remaining building societies are willing to lend, and therefore
the price of housing.

And if house prices fell a lot, as they may well do, would HMRC give the
money back?

--
Joe

[Rod Speed]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:34:01 +1100, Joe <j...@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 16:47:26 +0100
> Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>> She reset the 13 year period of low/negative interest rates almost
>> overnight.
>
> Reset? The average base rate for many, many decades was between four and
> five percent, and we aren't anywhere near that. It needs to be at that
> level for the economy to function reasonably normally, not in casino
> mode.
>
>> She almost forced solid companies like Legal & General, and
>> others into liquidation when their 'carefully' designed
>> Liability-Driven Investments (for funding historical *private*
>> Defined Benefit pension schemes) were in danger of collapsing
>> one Monday morning, when the pound dropped to $1.03 and overseas
>> holders of gilts dumped them in a fire sale.
>
> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
> including my own son. As I said to Speed the other day, the process of
> restoring a workable interest rate will be very painful. He used his
> favourite word in reply, of course. Put the blame where it belongs, on
> the West's central banks, and whoever they take their orders from.

They take their orders from no one. They just do what they decide
is the best approach and do sometimes manage to get that right.

>> Our geology would never produce the amount of gas that it does
>> in North America.
>> Britain is ex-growth. a 40 year obsession with house prices have
>> made us uniquely vulnerable to even a minor increase in interest
>> rates. All that mythical 'wealth' should have been taxed more
>> progressively (and NO loopholes) over the whole period.

> And where would the money to pay this hypothetical tax have come from?
> As you say, the 'wealth' is mythical. Not a single penny of it exists
> in legal tender (i.e. a form acceptable to HMRC) until the house is
> sold, and very few people have a spare house in their back pockets.
>
> Most people have no control at all over the amount of money banks and
> the few remaining building societies are willing to lend, and therefore
> the price of housing.

That isn't what determines the price of housing.

> And if house prices fell a lot, as they may well do,

Not going to happen.

[Joe]

On 27 Oct 2022 17:56:27 GMT
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher

> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and
> > muslims, and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I
> > have ever seen was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who
> > used to work in Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons
> > car.
>

> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha
> Asians out of Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya. One
> of the group guides was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour of Idi
> Amin kicking out the Asians.

Sunak's parents came here from East Africa, so may well have been
thrown out by Amin.

>
> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be
> racist".
>

Nobody who has ever worked with Japanese will tell you that.

--
Joe

[Peeler]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 06:52:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:50:01 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 88-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[tony sayer]

In article <jrvv2b...@mid.individual.net>, Tim Streater
<timst...@greenbee.net> scribeth thus
>On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>

>> Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and muslims,
>> and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I have ever seen
>> was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who used to work in
>> Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons car.
>

>This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha Asians out of
>Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya. One of the group guides
>was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour of Idi Amin kicking out the Asians.
>

>Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be racist".
>

I remember one night in darkest Kenya there was a bust up over some
women and i got involved and ended up in the local police station
wherein the local chief of police heard that i was English and from
Cambridge where his govnor had studied i was deemed OK to share a nice
bottle of scotch in the station with him.

In the course of a long drawn out conversation he told me in no
uncertain terms that the only man a Black man hates more than a white
man is a Black man from the wrong tribe!

It seemed to him that most white people were quite decent!

Anyway by the following morning light the bottle, I think he had two or
more had run dry, i could hardly stand so he whistled up a squad car to
run me back to the hotel!

Did get a few Christmas cards from him for a few years nice bloke!..

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

[Rod Speed]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:59:06 +1100, Joe <j...@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On 27 Oct 2022 17:56:27 GMT
> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and
>> > muslims, and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I
>> > have ever seen was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who
>> > used to work in Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons
>> > car.
>>
>> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha
>> Asians out of Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya. One
>> of the group guides was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour of Idi
>> Amin kicking out the Asians.
>
> Sunak's parents came here from East Africa, so may well have been
> thrown out by Amin.

Nope, his dad was born in Kenya and his mum was born in Tanganyika.

>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be
>> racist".
>>
>
> Nobody who has ever worked with Japanese will tell you that.

And the chinese. When I was living in Singapore in the 50s,
it was interesting the rabid racist comments made by old
chinese women laborers about malays being just monkeys.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 08:32:24 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

dennis@home to senile know-it-all Rodent Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID: <pCVTC.283711$%L2.2...@fx40.am4>

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 27/10/2022 18:56, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>

> wrote:
>
>> Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and muslims,
>> and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I have ever seen
>> was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who used to work in
>> Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons car.
>

> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha Asians out of
> Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya. One of the group guides
> was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour of Idi Amin kicking out the Asians.
>

> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be racist".
>

In fact, the very worst racists seem to be Asians, followed by American
Africans.
There may be some residual white racism in rural USA but Ive not seen
much evidence for it. It does seem to be fairly rife in Italian football
supporters though.
But in terms of competitive matches I suspect 'they only do it to annoy,
because they know it teases'


--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:
> And if house prices fell a lot, as they may well do, would HMRC give the
> money back?

Oddly, you can offset capital losses against future capital gains. I
paid a massive amount of CGT when I sold by business, but then the
economic crises resulted in a lot of capital losses as I sold
investments that became nearly worthless.

I haven't recouped the taxes I pad yet, but I haven't paid CGT for 20
years and nor will I likely do so ever again.

If house were placed under CGT, then the same principles would accrue.
.........................

As an aside, I do think it strange and very telling that those on the
Left want to tax wealth, which is generally the product of hard work,
and income, which is absolutely the product of hard work, and thereby
discourage anyone from working [hard] to create wealth.

They would also tax assets that generate no wealth at all. Like for
example owning a nice house, or a painting by a grand master.

In reality, what should be taxed in today's world would be consumption
waste and frivolity.

Cars TVs, smart phones - if these were 5 times more expensive to buy
*new*, then there would be a huge incentive to not buy them at all, and
certainly not to throw them away after a year or two because they were
broken.

But manufacturing them is another form of tax on the consumer, who pays
over and over for the same shoddy product, and puts the money in the
pockets of the manufacturers.

So naturally, those manufacturers, who fund political parties and bribe
EU commissioners, get low taxes, and the customer pays and pays.


--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell

[The Natural Philosopher]

But it is the central pillar of Critical Race Theory

--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 27/10/2022 22:19, tony sayer wrote:
> he told me in no
> uncertain terms that the only man a Black man hates more than a white
> man is a Black man from the wrong tribe!

Winny Mandela supervised 'necklacing' of other tribes and political
parties...


"During a speech in Munsieville on 13 April 1986, Madikizela-Mandela
endorsed the practice of necklacing (burning people alive using rubber
tyres filled with petrol) by saying: "With our boxes of matches and our
necklaces we shall liberate this country." Further tarnishing her
reputation were accusations by her bodyguard, Jerry Musivuzi Richardson,
and others, at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, that she had
ordered kidnapping and murder during the second half of the 1980s."

The ANC has such nice people in it.



--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
..than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

[Joe]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 11:06:43 +0100

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 27/10/2022 21:59, Joe wrote:
> > On 27 Oct 2022 17:56:27 GMT
> > Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher
> >> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and
> >>> muslims, and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I
> >>> have ever seen was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who
> >>> used to work in Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons
> >>> car.
> >>
> >> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha
> >> Asians out of Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya.
> >> One of the group guides was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour
> >> of Idi Amin kicking out the Asians.
> >
> > Sunak's parents came here from East Africa, so may well have been
> > thrown out by Amin.
> >>
> >> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be
> >> racist".
> >>
> >
> > Nobody who has ever worked with Japanese will tell you that.
> >
> But it is the central pillar of Critical Race Theory
>

Which precisely demonstrates its value.

So presumably Blacks are the oppressors and therefore racists in Africa
and many other countries, as Indians are in India, and indeed in some
parts of the UK.

--
Joe

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 27/10/2022 19:54, billy bookcase wrote:

> "Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
> news:jrvv2b...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be racist".
>
>
> I doubt anyone has ever seriously made such a claim.
>

Oh, its the central tenet of critical race theory.

> But what they have claimed, is that its only white people who
> ever founded entire Empires on the basis of supposed racial
> superiority
>

In that case, it cant have been supposed. At whatever level, they *were*
superior. Or they wouldn't have been able to found those empires.

My Zulu colleague used to question me on issues of race that were raised
by the Marxists in the townships.
"How come the White Man rules us blacks"
I thought for quite a time.
"Do you know how to make a rifle, Lawrence?"
"No"
"Well I do, and so do many white people, and that's why they rule the
blacks"

And that is in the end how you build an empire. With superior technology
and firepower.

Not with racism. Your success may engender a feeling of racial
superiority, but that is not the tool used to create it.

For whatever reasons - I favour the cold winters, and the sea -
Britain and NW Europe were the initiators of modern technology,
something Africa in particular, but also Asia to a lesser extent, did not.

Whereas its generally accepted that at least in Eurasia, agriculture was
developed in the middle east, gunpowder in china...etc etc.

Everyone gets their turn. The last 500 years have been the European's
turn, and they mostly are light skinned.

To call that racism, is bigotry of the highest order. To regard ability
with technology as inherently only possible for white peoples, is
equally benighted, as the rise of Asian skills, shows.

African culture however has lagged. As has the middle eastern Asian culture.

Its not intrinsic to the *race* however. There are some remarkable
skilled and astute members of both those cultures, but the majority
members seem more likely to blame racism, than get up and try harder.

A possible explanation is that people who are - or were - hunter
gatherers, and became herders, do not need a work ethic or much in the
way of technology.
It is agriculture - as crop growing - that is massively labour
intensive, until you get basic machines working, and replacing the horse
and the ox by, the windmill and the water mill by steam engines
massively improved productivity.

Back in mediaeval times, the plate mailed knight on a horse was an
invincible character: empires were created by such. And the peasants who
toiled his fields were regarded as inferior races.

It was inferior tribes who got sold *by the victors, in tribal wars* as
slaves.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 28/10/2022 11:22, Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 11:06:43 +0100
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 27/10/2022 21:59, Joe wrote:
>>> On 27 Oct 2022 17:56:27 GMT
>>> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and
>>>>> muslims, and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I
>>>>> have ever seen was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who
>>>>> used to work in Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons
>>>>> car.
>>>>
>>>> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha
>>>> Asians out of Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya.
>>>> One of the group guides was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour
>>>> of Idi Amin kicking out the Asians.
>>>
>>> Sunak's parents came here from East Africa, so may well have been
>>> thrown out by Amin.
>>>>
>>>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be
>>>> racist".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nobody who has ever worked with Japanese will tell you that.
>>>
>> But it is the central pillar of Critical Race Theory
>>
>
> Which precisely demonstrates its value.
>

Yep, total bollox from start to finish.

> So presumably Blacks are the oppressors and therefore racists in Africa
> and many other countries, as Indians are in India, and indeed in some
> parts of the UK.
>

I guess so. In fact to hear the Marxists talk, everyone is oppressing
someone and being oppressed by someone all the time everywhere, and only
communism will sort it all out, which it does, in that *everybody* then
becomes oppressed by the State, instead! Cant say fairer than that!

Brilliant!
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[JNugent]

On 27/10/2022 09:59 pm, Joe wrote:
> On 27 Oct 2022 17:56:27 GMT
> Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
>> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and
>>> muslims, and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I
>>> have ever seen was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who
>>> used to work in Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons
>>> car.
>>
>> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha
>> Asians out of Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya. One
>> of the group guides was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour of Idi
>> Amin kicking out the Asians.
>
> Sunak's parents came here from East Africa, so may well have been
> thrown out by Amin.

My understanding is that it was ten years earlier than that. late
fifties rather than late sixties / early seventies.

[Andrew]

On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:

> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
> including my own son.

The Liability_driven investment model was based on orderly
changes in 10-year and long term gilt yields. It is normally
easy to see which way intersst rates are heading if you know
what to look at (99% of the public don't).

In a matter of days there was an unprecedented sell off of gilts.
This hasn't happened in decades.

> And where would the money to pay this hypothetical tax have come from?
> As you say, the 'wealth' is mythical. Not a single penny of it exists
> in legal tender (i.e. a form acceptable to HMRC) until the house is
> sold, and very few people have a spare house in their back pockets.
>

1. Council tax bands !!!. The revaluation of these bands is long overdue
(already happened in Wales and Scotland) and all political parties are
bottling out an English one.

2. Move stamp duty from buyer to seller. Easy. FTB's will never pay
again, people going up the ladder will pay less while those at the
stop, who bought houses for peanuts (and never paid stamp duty) would
have to pay back some of the massive WINDFALL gains (Just like the
clamours for a windfall tax on energy companies).

3. Make re-mortgaging 2nd properties an immediate chargeable event
for CGT.

> Most people have no control at all over the amount of money banks and
> the few remaining building societies are willing to lend, and therefore
> the price of housing.
>

BS Over-borrowing and stupidly low interest rates just pushes up
house prices.

> And if house prices fell a lot, as they may well do, would HMRC give the
> money back?
>

NO. But if they fell a lot, then fewer people would pay IHT on their
windfall largesse, and those that do would pay less IHT. Generation
Rent might be able to get on the housing ladder instead of paying
the 'pension' of the scumlord.

[farter]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 21:04:36 +1100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> As an aside, I do think it strange and very telling that those on the
> Left want to tax wealth, which is generally the product of hard work,

Much more often now due to lucking out on ending up with stuff
the vast bulk of us want to use, while being able to monetise that.

That last hasn't been possible with Twitter, but has been with
microsoft, facebook etc.

> and income, which is absolutely the product of hard work,

Not always, plenty of it is due to cornering the market.

> and thereby discourage anyone from working [hard] to create wealth.

That is far from clear with the likes of Zuckerberg etc.

> They would also tax assets that generate no wealth at all. Like for
> example owning a nice house, or a painting by a grand master.

They basically tax everything, including the sort of transactions
that everyone has to do like changing houses and cars etc.

> In reality, what should be taxed in today's world would be consumption
> waste and frivolity.

We get govts involved in almost everything now and so have to
tax everything to pay for it. Makes no sense to be handing out
money to those with kids, because because you are basically
taxing almost everybody except those whose entire income
is govt handouts, pumping that money through the govt system
and straight back to those you taxed in the first place.

> Cars TVs, smart phones - if these were 5 times more expensive to buy
> *new*, then there would be a huge incentive to not buy them at all, and
> certainly not to throw them away after a year or two because they were
> broken.

But it makes much more sense to have some very low skilled person
assembling a new one stamped out by robots than to have lots of
very much higher skilled repairing better designed and more
expensive to make stuff and charging lots more to do that.

> But manufacturing them is another form of tax on the consumer, who pays
> over and over for the same shoddy product, and puts the money in the
> pockets of the manufacturers.

And those they employ to assemble them.

[farter]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:13:46 +1100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 27/10/2022 19:54, billy bookcase wrote:
>> "Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
>> news:jrvv2b...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be
>>> racist".
>> I doubt anyone has ever seriously made such a claim.
>>
> Oh, its the central tenet of critical race theory.
>
>> But what they have claimed, is that its only white people who
>> ever founded entire Empires on the basis of supposed racial
>> superiority
>>
> In that case, it cant have been supposed. At whatever level, they *were*
> superior. Or they wouldn't have been able to found those empires.

That's overstated. The chinese chose not to have an empire, couldnt
see any sense in getting involved with all those unspeakable foreigners.

That has changed radically now.

Same with the japanese until they changed their mind on that in the
run up to WW2 and basically produced WW2 in the pacific when they
did change their mind on that.

> My Zulu colleague used to question me on issues of race that were raised
> by the Marxists in the townships.
> "How come the White Man rules us blacks"
> I thought for quite a time.
> "Do you know how to make a rifle, Lawrence?"
> "No"
> "Well I do, and so do many white people, and that's why they rule the
> blacks"

The afghans worked out how to make them but that didnt see them rule
anyone.

> And that is in the end how you build an empire. With superior technology
> and firepower.

It's more complicated than that with the vikings who never bothered with
an empire.

> Not with racism. Your success may engender a feeling of racial
> superiority, but that is not the tool used to create it.

That's very arguable with the Sikh Wars.

> For whatever reasons - I favour the cold winters, and the sea -
> Britain and NW Europe were the initiators of modern technology,
> something Africa in particular, but also Asia to a lesser extent, did
> not.
>
> Whereas its generally accepted that at least in Eurasia, agriculture was
> developed in the middle east, gunpowder in china...etc etc.
>
> Everyone gets their turn.

Primitive savages never did.

> The last 500 years have been the European's turn, and they mostly are
> light skinned.
>
> To call that racism, is bigotry of the highest order. To regard ability
> with technology as inherently only possible for white peoples, is
> equally benighted, as the rise of Asian skills, shows.
>
> African culture however has lagged. As has the middle eastern Asian
> culture.
>
> Its not intrinsic to the *race* however. There are some remarkable
> skilled and astute members of both those cultures, but the majority
> members seem more likely to blame racism, than get up and try harder.
>
> A possible explanation is that people who are - or were - hunter
> gatherers, and became herders, do not need a work ethic or much in the
> way of technology.
> It is agriculture - as crop growing - that is massively labour
> intensive, until you get basic machines working, and replacing the horse
> and the ox by, the windmill and the water mill by steam engines
> massively improved productivity.
>
> Back in mediaeval times, the plate mailed knight on a horse was an
> invincible character: empires were created by such. And the peasants who
> toiled his fields were regarded as inferior races.
>
> It was inferior tribes who got sold *by the victors, in tribal wars* as
> slaves.

Thats a bit overstated with the Marmalukes.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:23:16 +1100, farter, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:07:27 +1100, farter, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>

[Richard]

On 28/10/2022 10:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/10/2022 18:56, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 27 Oct 2022 at 11:02:13 BST, The Natural Philosopher
>> <t...@invalid.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ive had a lot of dealings with the asian mindset, hindus and muslims,
>>> and perhaps the most naked example of racism and hatred I have ever seen
>>> was in fact in an Ugandan Indian car mechanic who used to work in
>>> Cambridge. He refused to service a black persons car.
>>
>> This is arguably unsurprising, given who it was that kicked tha Asians
>> out of
>> Uganda. Some 50 years ago I had a trip up Mt Kenya. One of the group
>> guides
>> was Jimmy, a Ugandan. He was all in favour of Idi Amin kicking out the
>> Asians.
>>
>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be racist".
>>
> In fact, the very worst racists seem to be Asians, followed by American
> Africans.
> There may be some residual white racism in rural USA but Ive not seen
> much evidence for it. It does seem to be fairly rife in Italian football
> supporters though.
> But in terms of competitive matches I suspect 'they only do it to annoy,
> because they know it teases'

You know all this because you're very fluent in bollockanese?

Do you need crowdfunding to get you to RSA?

[Max Demian]

On 29/10/2022 03:23, farter wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:13:46 +1100, The Natural Philosopher
> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 27/10/2022 19:54, billy bookcase wrote:
>>> "Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
>>> news:jrvv2b...@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> Lets have no more bollox stating that "only white people can be
>>>> racist".
>>>   I doubt anyone has ever seriously made such a claim.
>>>
>> Oh, its the central tenet of critical race theory.
>>
>>> But what they have claimed, is that its only white people who
>>> ever founded entire Empires on the basis of supposed racial
>>> superiority
>>>
>> In that case, it cant have been supposed. At whatever level, they
>> *were* superior. Or they wouldn't have been able to found those empires.
>
> That's overstated. The chinese chose not to have an empire, couldnt
> see any sense in getting involved with all those unspeakable foreigners.

They might not have had a *colonial* empire; they *were* an empire like
the Russians; also the USA.

--
Max Demian

[JNugent]

On 28/10/2022 07:33 pm, Andrew wrote:

> On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:
>
>> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
>> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
>> including my own son.

Agreed.

[ ... ]

[Andrew:]

> 1. Council tax bands !!!. The revaluation of these bands is long overdue
> (already happened in Wales and Scotland) and all political parties are
> bottling out an English one.
>

If the revenue from Council tax is not enough, local authorities have
the power to increase it. OK, there's a provision that they have to hold
a referendum if the proposed increase is more than a (relatively small)
percentage, but... is that a bad thing?

To be truly democratic, of course, only those who have Council Tax to
pay should be allowed a vote in such referenda.

> 2. Move stamp duty from buyer to seller. Easy. FTB's will never pay
> again, people going up the ladder will pay less while those at the
> stop, who bought houses for peanuts (and never paid stamp duty) would
> have to pay back some of the massive WINDFALL gains (Just like the
> clamours for a windfall tax on energy companies).

"...those at the stop ("top"?), who bought houses for peanuts (and never
paid stamp duty)..."

What do you mean?

I paid Stamp Duty on each and every one of the houses I have owned (five
in total - serially), including the first one, bought forty-five years ago.

You seem to be regarding Stamp Duty as though it were a gambling game.

> 3. Make re-mortgaging 2nd properties an immediate chargeable event
> for CGT.

>> Most people have no control at all over the amount of money banks and
>> the few remaining building societies are willing to lend, and therefore
>> the price of housing.
>
> BS Over-borrowing and stupidly low interest rates just pushes up
> house prices.

Quite so. But try and explain it to someone with a £200,000+ mortgage.

>> And if house prices fell a lot, as they may well do, would HMRC give the
>> money back?
>
> NO. But if they fell a lot, then fewer people would pay IHT on their
> windfall largesse, and those that do would pay less IHT. Generation
> Rent might be able to get on the housing ladder instead of paying
> the 'pension' of the scumlord.

Many people fail to recognise and account for the twin facts that (a)
most of us have relatives to inherit and (b) none of us live forever.

[Fredxx]

On 29/10/2022 13:57, JNugent wrote:
> On 28/10/2022 07:33 pm, Andrew wrote:
>
>> On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
>>> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
>>> including my own son.
>
> Agreed.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> [Andrew:]
>> 1. Council tax bands !!!. The revaluation of these bands is long overdue
>> (already happened in Wales and Scotland) and all political parties are
>> bottling out an English one.
>>
>
> If the revenue from Council tax is not enough, local authorities have
> the power to increase it. OK, there's a provision that they have to hold
> a referendum if the proposed increase is more than a (relatively small)
> percentage, but... is that a bad thing?
>
> To be truly democratic, of course, only those who have Council Tax to
> pay should be allowed a vote in such referenda.

That is quite the opposite of democracy.

>> 2. Move stamp duty from buyer to seller. Easy. FTB's will never pay
>> again, people going up the ladder will pay less while those at the
>> stop, who bought houses for peanuts (and never paid stamp duty) would
>> have to pay back some of the massive WINDFALL gains (Just like the
>> clamours for a windfall tax on energy companies).
>
> "...those at the stop ("top"?), who bought houses for peanuts (and never
> paid stamp duty)..."
>
> What do you mean?
>
> I paid Stamp Duty on each and every one of the houses I have owned (five
> in total - serially), including the first one, bought forty-five years ago.
>
> You seem to be regarding Stamp Duty as though it were a gambling game.

For some it is, for others it's a tax on relocation. A London centric
worker can easily change job without moving, something mortals outside
of London can't do.

>> 3. Make re-mortgaging 2nd properties an immediate chargeable event
>> for CGT.
>
>>> Most people have no control at all over the amount of money banks and
>>> the few remaining building societies are willing to lend, and therefore
>>> the price of housing.
>>
>> BS Over-borrowing and stupidly low interest rates just pushes up
>> house prices.
>
> Quite so. But try and explain it to someone with a £200,000+ mortgage.

Demand pushes up prices, as per example of Eastern European immigration.
So did the availability of bounce back loans.

[JNugent]

On 29/10/2022 02:14 pm, Fredxx wrote:

> On 29/10/2022 13:57, JNugent wrote:
>> On 28/10/2022 07:33 pm, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:
>
>>>> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
>>>> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
>>>> including my own son.
>
>> Agreed.
>
>> [ ... ]
>
>> [Andrew:]
>>> 1. Council tax bands !!!. The revaluation of these bands is long overdue
>>> (already happened in Wales and Scotland) and all political parties are
>>> bottling out an English one.
>
>> If the revenue from Council tax is not enough, local authorities have
>> the power to increase it. OK, there's a provision that they have to
>> hold a referendum if the proposed increase is more than a (relatively
>> small) percentage, but... is that a bad thing?
>
>> To be truly democratic, of course, only those who have Council Tax to
>> pay should be allowed a vote in such referenda.
>
> That is quite the opposite of democracy.

Not at all. People who will not be affected by a rise in Council Tax
have an incentive to penalise those who will be affected.

>>> 2. Move stamp duty from buyer to seller. Easy. FTB's will never pay
>>> again, people going up the ladder will pay less while those at the
>>> stop, who bought houses for peanuts (and never paid stamp duty) would
>>> have to pay back some of the massive WINDFALL gains (Just like the
>>> clamours for a windfall tax on energy companies).
>
>> "...those at the stop ("top"?), who bought houses for peanuts (and
>> never paid stamp duty)..."
>> What do you mean?
>> I paid Stamp Duty on each and every one of the houses I have owned
>> (five in total - serially), including the first one, bought forty-five
>> years ago.
>> You seem to be regarding Stamp Duty as though it were a gambling game.
>
> For some it is, for others it's a tax on relocation. A London centric
> worker can easily change job without moving, something mortals outside
> of London can't do.

That is true and is a powerful argument against Stamp Duty. But it isn't
the only one. The basic principle that a property sale is a private
transaction (and none of the government's business) is even more powerful.

>
>>> 3. Make re-mortgaging 2nd properties an immediate chargeable event
>>> for CGT.
>
>>>> Most people have no control at all over the amount of money banks and
>>>> the few remaining building societies are willing to lend, and therefore
>>>> the price of housing.
>
>>> BS Over-borrowing and stupidly low interest rates just pushes up
>>> house prices.
>
>> Quite so. But try and explain it to someone with a £200,000+ mortgage.
>
> Demand pushes up prices, as per example of Eastern European immigration.
> So did the availability of bounce back loans.

Agreed. It is not possible envisage a situation where demand (whether
for purchase or rental) can be significantly increased without affecting
price.

[Fredxx]

On 29/10/2022 15:35, JNugent wrote:
> On 29/10/2022 02:14 pm, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> On 29/10/2022 13:57, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 28/10/2022 07:33 pm, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:
>>
>>>>> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
>>>>> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
>>>>> including my own son.
>>
>>> Agreed.
>>
>>> [ ... ]
>>
>>> [Andrew:]
>>>> 1. Council tax bands !!!. The revaluation of these bands is long
>>>> overdue
>>>> (already happened in Wales and Scotland) and all political parties are
>>>> bottling out an English one.
>>
>>> If the revenue from Council tax is not enough, local authorities have
>>> the power to increase it. OK, there's a provision that they have to
>>> hold a referendum if the proposed increase is more than a (relatively
>>> small) percentage, but... is that a bad thing?
>>
>>> To be truly democratic, of course, only those who have Council Tax to
>>> pay should be allowed a vote in such referenda.
>>
>> That is quite the opposite of democracy.
>
> Not at all. People who will not be affected by a rise in Council Tax
> have an incentive to penalise those who will be affected.

People have died protecting one man - one vote concept. Others
imprisoned and received a Nobel Peace Prize. and You are free to retain
your outdated feudal like views.

[SteveW]

Indeed. However, it is not fair that those that gain from council
support, but pay little or nothing towards it, can vote for higher
council tax or for higher psending councils, to their own benefit, while
being insulated from the financial consequences either.

While badly implemented, the Community Charge (Poll Tax), ensured that
everyone voting had a to pay and removed that voting without consequence
element.

[JNugent]

<shrug>

You must surely have encountered the characterisation of democracy as
two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

[Tim Ward]

On 29/10/2022 16:15, JNugent wrote:
>
> You must surely have encountered the characterisation of democracy as
> two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Democracy is, of course, all about protecting the minority.

The majority don't need protection: they've already got enough fists or
guns or, as you point out, teeth.

--
Tim Ward - 07801 703 600
www.brettward.co.uk

[farter]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:14:01 +1100, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Only recently.

> also the USA.

Nothing even remotely like the USA empire.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 03:37:03 +1100, farter, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 01:35:19 +1100, JNugent <jennin...@mail.com> wrote:

> On 29/10/2022 02:14 pm, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> On 29/10/2022 13:57, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 28/10/2022 07:33 pm, Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 27/10/2022 21:34, Joe wrote:
>>
>>>>> Anyone who built their lives and/or businesses on the premise of
>>>>> interest rates remaining at zero indefinitely deserves all they get,
>>>>> including my own son.
>>
>>> Agreed.
>>
>>> [ ... ]
>>
>>> [Andrew:]
>>>> 1. Council tax bands !!!. The revaluation of these bands is long
>>>> overdue
>>>> (already happened in Wales and Scotland) and all political parties are
>>>> bottling out an English one.
>>
>>> If the revenue from Council tax is not enough, local authorities have
>>> the power to increase it. OK, there's a provision that they have to
>>> hold a referendum if the proposed increase is more than a (relatively
>>> small) percentage, but... is that a bad thing?
>>
>>> To be truly democratic, of course, only those who have Council Tax to
>>> pay should be allowed a vote in such referenda.

Trouble is that almost everyone is affected by the Council
Tax, even if that is only because landlords have to pay it
and will obviously pass that on to their renters.

>> That is quite the opposite of democracy.
>
> Not at all. People who will not be affected by a rise in Council Tax
> have an incentive to penalise those who will be affected.
>
>>>> 2. Move stamp duty from buyer to seller. Easy. FTB's will never pay
>>>> again, people going up the ladder will pay less while those at the
>>>> stop, who bought houses for peanuts (and never paid stamp duty) would
>>>> have to pay back some of the massive WINDFALL gains (Just like the
>>>> clamours for a windfall tax on energy companies).
>>
>>> "...those at the stop ("top"?), who bought houses for peanuts (and
>>> never paid stamp duty)..."
>>> What do you mean?
>>> I paid Stamp Duty on each and every one of the houses I have owned
>>> (five in total - serially), including the first one, bought forty-five
>>> years ago.
>>> You seem to be regarding Stamp Duty as though it were a gambling game.
>> For some it is, for others it's a tax on relocation. A London centric
>> worker can easily change job without moving, something mortals outside
>> of London can't do.
>
> That is true and is a powerful argument against Stamp Duty. But it isn't
> the only one. The basic principle that a property sale is a private
> transaction (and none of the government's business) is even more
> powerful.

But why should private sales be exempt from being taxed ?

[JNugent]

That isn't the case in the UK. Council tax is payable by the occupier,
not the owner. It *might* be rebated if the occupier's declared
financial circumstances warrant it.

>
>>>  That is quite the opposite of democracy.
>
>> Not at all. People who will not be affected by a rise in Council Tax
>> have an incentive to penalise those who will be affected.

Those who *are* affected do, of course, include tenants who are paying
Council Tax.

>>>>> 2. Move stamp duty from buyer to seller. Easy. FTB's will never pay
>>>>> again, people going up the ladder will pay less while those at the
>>>>> stop, who bought houses for peanuts (and never paid stamp duty) would
>>>>> have to pay back some of the massive WINDFALL gains (Just like the
>>>>> clamours for a windfall tax on energy companies).
>
>>>> "...those at the stop ("top"?), who bought houses for peanuts (and
>>>> never paid stamp duty)..."

>>>> What do you mean?
>>>> I paid Stamp Duty on each and every one of the houses I have owned
>>>> (five in total - serially), including the first one, bought
>>>> forty-five years ago.
>>>> You seem to be regarding Stamp Duty as though it were a gambling game.

>>>  For some it is, for others it's a tax on relocation. A London
>>> centric worker can easily change job without moving, something
>>> mortals outside of London can't do.
>
>> That is true and is a powerful argument against Stamp Duty. But it
>> isn't the only one. The basic principle that a property sale is a
>> private transaction (and none of the government's business) is even
>> more powerful.
>
> But why should private sales be exempt from being taxed ?

Do you pay tax when you sell your car through the classifieds?

Or anything else?

[ ... ]

[Rod Speed]

Mindlessly superficial. SteveW makes a very good point that it makes
no sense to allow those who don't pay any Council Tax and who do
depend on the services that the council provides, to be able to vote
for a hike in council tax to benefit themselves as the expense of others.

[Rod Speed]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 02:43:02 +1100, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:

> On 29/10/2022 16:15, JNugent wrote:
>> You must surely have encountered the characterisation of democracy as
>> two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
>
> Democracy is, of course, all about protecting the minority.

Bullshit.

> The majority don't need protection: they've already got enough fists or
> guns or, as you point out, teeth.

That's bullshit with monopolys and general consumer rights etc.

In that case it is the vast majority which is protected.

[Rod Speed]

Yep, stamp duty.

> Or anything else?

Yep, income tax.

[Rod Speed]

Who is the occupier in the usual multi person household ?

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 04:10:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 04:06:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Pomegranate Bastard addressing the trolling senile cretin from Oz:
"Surely you can find an Australian group to pollute rather than posting
your unwanted guff here."
MID: <c1pqvgte5ldlo1rn3...@4ax.com>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 03:50:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

R Souls addressing the senile Australian cretin's "personalized" idiotic
spelling:
"Learn to spell, imbecile. And while you're about it learn to mind your
own business as well."
MID: <eohtkhl27bo4osjlu...@4ax.com>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 04:17:14 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off."
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0se...@4ax.com>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 04:21:24 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

[Fredxx]

I can certainly see your point, but the same is true of higher rate of
income tax. Perhaps people who don't work should perhaps be removed from
any decision regards National Insurance?

In short taxes are taxes. If you want some semblance of accountability
perhaps a national wage, out of which you have to pay full council tax?

The issue with council tax, is that it isn't a proportionate tax.
Perhaps it should be some form of local income tax? But then what about
wealthy areas with low rates of tax. In short we have the system we have
and have to lump it.

[Tim Ward]

On 29/10/2022 18:10, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 02:43:02 +1100, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 29/10/2022 16:15, JNugent wrote:
>>>  You must surely have encountered the characterisation of democracy
>>> as two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
>>
>> Democracy is, of course, all about protecting the minority.
>
> Bullshit.

Gosh, how polite. *Plonk*

[Rod Speed]

And why should those who pay no income tax because the don't have
a high enough income, get any say on the govt soaking the rich ?

> In short taxes are taxes.

And tax has to be collected unless you prefer no govt.

> If you want some semblance of accountability perhaps a national wage,
> out of which you have to pay full council tax?

That approach isnt viable either.

> The issue with council tax, is that it isn't a proportionate tax.

> Perhaps it should be some form of local income tax?

Not viable either.

> But then what about wealthy areas with low rates of tax. In short we
> have the system we have and have to lump it.

But are free to fiddle with the detail.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 06:28:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 88-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[JNugent]

That is exactly the same point, though couched in more prosaic terms.

[JNugent]

Stamp duty on cars?

Let me tell you: there is no such thing here.

[JNugent]

What does "usual multi person household" mean?

[JNugent]

Eh?

National Insurance is only charged upon earnings.

I suppose that some receive earnings without working (and that you might
- just - be referring to them), but it must be very few.

> In short taxes are taxes. If you want some semblance of accountability
> perhaps a national wage, out of which you have to pay full council tax?

What does that mean?

> The issue with council tax, is that it isn't a proportionate tax.

Why does it have to be?

> Perhaps it should be some form of local income tax?

A locally-determined sales tax would be better and fairer.

[Rod Speed]

There is here and obviously could be there.

[Rod Speed]

A household with more than one person in it, the most common type of
household.

[Rod Speed]

No, because most can buy stuff where the sales tax is cheaper.

> and fairer.

No, it is a regressive tax.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/10/2022 16:43, Tim Ward wrote:
> On 29/10/2022 16:15, JNugent wrote:
>>
>> You must surely have encountered the characterisation of democracy as
>> two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
>
> Democracy is, of course, all about protecting the minority.
>

Bollocks.
Democracy as it was developed by Britain and practised here was - at
least until the EU got involved - a means by which regimes can be
changed without violent civil wars and revolutions.

> The majority don't need protection: they've already got enough fists or
> guns or, as you point out, teeth.
>

The majority does need protection.

Especially in an economy that is neither mercantile nor artisanal.
Take Russia for example. All its wealth comes from mineral exploitation.
That doesn't need a massive labour force. A very small minority can take
control by means of a private army, and fuck the peasants six ways
sideways for Christmas. The peasants are simply not required for the
purposes of wealth generation. Neither are the intellectuals and
educated middle classes.

I am not making a moral point here, I am making a realpolitik point.


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 13:56:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 13:53:24 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.d...@sqwertz.com>

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 13:54:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

[Max Demian]

On 29/10/2022 17:37, farter wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:14:01 +1100, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>> On 29/10/2022 03:23, farter wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:13:46 +1100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>>> In that case, it cant have been supposed. At whatever level, they
>>>> *were* superior. Or they wouldn't have been able to found those
>>>> empires.

>>>  That's overstated. The chinese chose not to have an empire, couldnt
>>> see any sense in getting involved with all those unspeakable foreigners.
>>
>> They might not have had a *colonial* empire; they *were* an empire
>> like the Russians;
>
> Only recently.

The Chinese have had/been an empire for thousands of years.

>> also the USA.
>
> Nothing even remotely like the USA empire.

Do you mean the USA isn't an empire, or that it isn't like the Chinese?

--
Max Demian

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/10/2022 10:33, Max Demian wrote:
> Do you mean the USA isn't an empire, or that it isn't like the Chinese?

Yes.
No
Maybe
Depends.

Don't see many emperors these days.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[Andrew]

On 30/10/2022 11:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/10/2022 10:33, Max Demian wrote:
>> Do you mean the USA isn't an empire, or that it isn't like the Chinese?
> Yes.
> No
> Maybe
> Depends.
>
> Don't see many emperors these days.
>

Bhutan, China, Russia, Saudi for a start

[Andrew]

On 30/10/2022 01:23, JNugent wrote:

> What does "usual multi person household" mean?

Any property with 2 or more adults, which includes kids over
a certain and no longer in (free) full time education, and
possibly working.

[Joe]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 11:01:23 +0000

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/10/2022 10:33, Max Demian wrote:
> > Do you mean the USA isn't an empire, or that it isn't like the
> > Chinese?
> Yes.
> No
> Maybe
> Depends.
>
> Don't see many emperors these days.
>

They are called presidents now, 'emperor' carries nasty connotations of
'colonialism', which is a bad thing when carried out by the UK. You
would expect a President of the USA to resist, with military force if
necessary, any attempt by a State to secede.

The US Civil War was an example of this. The North wasn't called
Anti-Slavery or any variation of that, it was called the Union.

--
Joe