Lidl's Big Button Phone Offer: warning - not only to OAP's!
John Murphy
friend recently bought a SilverCrest pay-as-you-go (tm) Big Button
mobile phone from, and brought it to me "because it doesn't work,
John".
Though quite intelligent and lively-minded, she has little formal
education, and no knowledge of telecomms jargon. Even had she such,
she might well have been confused by the words, 'This mobile phone
comes sim free, unlocked and can be used with all UK GSM cards
(excluding 3G).' And, anyway, unsurprisingly, she hasn't the slightest
idea what is meant by "sim card".
The header of one box is ticked 'SIM free and unlocked', trickily
possibly implying the sim to be included but free. No sim! Repeated
attempts to make calls - to no avail.
It goes without saying that no call credit is or within the context
could be offered, and, as in the case of my friend, potential users of
this mobile are highly unlikely to know what a sim card is or how to
choose a mobile provider.
Even with a sim and say £20 credit, the price would be over the top.
Indeed, Carphone Warehouse offers a good basic mobile with sim, of
course, and £20 credit - for £30, and may well also offer a bit of
discount to a pensioner.
Inertial selling is a term that comes to mind, since the victim of the
offer thought herself to be in some way at fault and was both confused
and embarrased. I thought this appalling.
As it happened, I had a spare Samsung in my odds-and-ends drawer, and
so set it up for her.
I intend to return the non-functional mobile to Ridl and get her a
full refund, so in this case all is well in a way - but it is not in
general.
Unfortunately, the outcomes of such offers, made wittingly or
otherwise, will not be calculable - but the sad tales will reflect and
lie hidden in the bottom lines of SilverCrest and Ridl.
--
Harbinger.
tony sayer
.com>, John Murphy <london.accommod...@googlemail.com>
scribeth thus
>For the sum of £39.99, out of her slender resources, a pensioner
>friend recently bought a SilverCrest pay-as-you-go (tm) Big Button
>mobile phone from, and brought it to me "because it doesn't work,
>John".
>
>Though quite intelligent and lively-minded, she has little formal
>education, and no knowledge of telecomms jargon. Even had she such,
>she might well have been confused by the words, 'This mobile phone
>comes sim free, unlocked and can be used with all UK GSM cards
>(excluding 3G).' And, anyway, unsurprisingly, she hasn't the slightest
>idea what is meant by "sim card".
Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
to her?.
>
>The header of one box is ticked 'SIM free and unlocked', trickily
>possibly implying the sim to be included but free. No sim! Repeated
>attempts to make calls - to no avail.
Well all other mobile operators advertise SIM free phones. Just how many
people on cam.misc don't understand what that means?..
>
>It goes without saying that no call credit is or within the context
>could be offered, and, as in the case of my friend, potential users of
>this mobile are highly unlikely to know what a sim card is or how to
>choose a mobile provider.
Well thats prolly a problem she'll have to deal with, after all can you
expect everyone who's over a certain age to understand the intricacies
of lets say freeview or freesat TV reception or what a HDMI interface
is?.
>
>Even with a sim and say £20 credit, the price would be over the top.
>Indeed, Carphone Warehouse offers a good basic mobile with sim, of
>course, and £20 credit - for £30, and may well also offer a bit of
>discount to a pensioner.
Well shes free to shop wherever she pleases .. isn't she?..
>
>Inertial selling is a term that comes to mind, since the victim of the
>offer thought herself to be in some way at fault and was both confused
>and embarrased. I thought this appalling.
>
>As it happened, I had a spare Samsung in my odds-and-ends drawer, and
>so set it up for her.
>
>I intend to return the non-functional mobile to Ridl and get her a
>full refund, so in this case all is well in a way - but it is not in
>general.
Is there anything wrong with it?. It's advertised as SIM free.
Is it not of merchantable quality?.
>
>Unfortunately, the outcomes of such offers, made wittingly or
>otherwise, will not be calculable - but the sad tales will reflect and
>lie hidden in the bottom lines of SilverCrest and Ridl.
Do you think the retailer is "really" at fault here?..
>--
>Harbinger.
>
>http://www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/SID-B1947CBF-76D2FA91/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/index_10
>945.htm?offerdate=&ar2=&ERR=noservice
--
Tony Sayer
Roland Perry
<21520e38-797c-49c7...@y4g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>, at
11:00:08 on Sun, 6 Jun 2010, John Murphy
<london.accommod...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>For the sum of �39.99, out of her slender resources, a pensioner
>friend recently bought a SilverCrest pay-as-you-go (tm) Big Button
>mobile phone from, and brought it to me "because it doesn't work,
>John".
>
>Though quite intelligent and lively-minded, she has little formal
>education, and no knowledge of telecomms jargon. Even had she such,
>she might well have been confused by the words, 'This mobile phone
>comes sim free, unlocked and can be used with all UK GSM cards
>(excluding 3G).' And, anyway, unsurprisingly, she hasn't the slightest
>idea what is meant by "sim card".
>
>The header of one box is ticked 'SIM free and unlocked', trickily
>possibly implying the sim to be included but free. No sim! Repeated
>attempts to make calls - to no avail.
>
>It goes without saying that no call credit is or within the context
>could be offered, and, as in the case of my friend, potential users of
>this mobile are highly unlikely to know what a sim card is or how to
>choose a mobile provider.
>
>Even with a sim and say �20 credit, the price would be over the top.
>Indeed, Carphone Warehouse offers a good basic mobile with sim, of
>course, and �20 credit - for �30, and may well also offer a bit of
>discount to a pensioner.
The �39.99 phone is far from a "Basic Model" as it has several special
features - including the big keyboard. For �39.99 unlocked, it's a bad
price.
>Inertial selling is a term that comes to mind, since the victim of the
>offer thought herself to be in some way at fault and was both confused
>and embarrased. I thought this appalling.
>
>As it happened, I had a spare Samsung in my odds-and-ends drawer, and
>so set it up for her.
>
>I intend to return the non-functional mobile to Ridl and get her a
>full refund, so in this case all is well in a way - but it is not in
>general.
It's not non-functional, it requires a SIM[1] and some credit - the
former is virtually free and the latter is needed to pay for the calls.
In a way it's a shame that Lidl don't sell one alongside (or maybe they
do?) but most buyers would rejoice at the lack of tie-in to any specific
network.
[1] At 8p/minute for most calls, this one gets good reviews:
http://www.asdamobile.com/sim_pack.html
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2010, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>The £39.99 phone is far from a "Basic Model" as it has several special
>features - including the big keyboard. For £39.99 unlocked, it's a bad
>price.
<cough> NOT a bad price.
--
Roland Perry
Kev Bishop
"John Murphy" <london.accommod...@googlemail.com> wrote in
message
news:21520e38-797c-49c7...@y4g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
Slight variation on the usual computer PICNIC error, PICNIR (Problem In
Chair Not In Retailer).
Malcolm Gray
> For the sum of Ł39.99, out of her slender resources, a pensioner
> friend recently bought a SilverCrest pay-as-you-go (tm) Big Button
> mobile phone from, and brought it to me "because it doesn't work,
> John".
If the phone is really called a pay-as-you-go phone I think that is a
bit naughty for SIM free, although some of the users will know all about it.
Which recently looked at easy to use phon and included big button phones
and many were around 100 GBP so 40 GBP does not sound unreasonable.
I do think the makers have a bit of a problem - they have to include the
normal phrses used to describe such products (such as "sim free and
unlocked") yet avoid confusing people who don't know about the product
(a warning saying "SIM not included but required" would seem wise)
Cris Galletly
tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
>fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
>to her?.
And maybe not. Maybe this really is ripping off vulnerable elderly
people.
It's no bloody wonder elderly people don't want mobile phones or the
Internet when there are all these scams out there.
Yeah, maybe she has relatives, but Thatcher taught us there was no such
thing as society, didn't she?
--
+ Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> +
Cris Galletly
Kev Bishop <kevb@> wrote:
>Slight variation on the usual computer PICNIC error, PICNIR (Problem In
>Chair Not In Retailer).
I think you meant PEBKAC as the first one, but never mind.
Oh how charitable you are. Have you the first idea about eldercare issues?
Stephen Borrill
wrote:
> In article <BgozGJAS8+CMF...@bancom.co.uk>,
> tony sayer <t...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
> >fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
> >to her?.
>
> And maybe not. Maybe this really is ripping off vulnerable elderly
> people.
>
> It's no bloody wonder elderly people don't want mobile phones or the
> Internet when there are all these scams out there.
Seems like a good enough deal to me even if you have to pay £x for a
SIM (which I admit could have been made clear by the sounds of it):
http://www.reghardware.com/2010/05/04/grouptest_oap_phones/
--
Stephen
Roland Perry
7 Jun 2010, Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>>Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
>>fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
>>to her?.
>
>And maybe not. Maybe this really is ripping off vulnerable elderly
>people.
No it isn't. The phone is incredibly cheap and all they need to do is
buy a SIM. Complaining about this is like complaining you have to out
petrol in a car.
>It's no bloody wonder elderly people don't want mobile phones or the
>Internet when there are all these scams out there.
There are some scams, just like real life. This one isn't, however.
>Yeah, maybe she has relatives, but Thatcher taught us there was no such
>thing as society, didn't she?
In the sense that you can't say "society is to blame for this phone
being on sale". She went on to say:
"the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us
is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us
prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are
unfortunate."
And here we all are, helping out that unfortunate phone buyer.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<37642db1-75a6-4913...@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at
06:06:45 on Mon, 7 Jun 2010, Stephen Borrill
<gsbo...@precedence.co.uk> remarked:
>Seems like a good enough deal to me even if you have to pay for a
>SIM (which I admit could have been made clear by the sounds of it):
50p from ASDA.
--
Roland Perry
tony sayer
<gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
>In article <BgozGJAS...@bancom.co.uk>,
>tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>>Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
>>fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
>>to her?.
>
>And maybe not. Maybe this really is ripping off vulnerable elderly
>people.
I don't think so. SIM free phones have been described that way for a
very long time now. I'm not exactly young but I know what it means..
>
>It's no bloody wonder elderly people don't want mobile phones or the
>Internet when there are all these scams out there.
Do you really think thats a scam?. If the lady went to the shop why
didn't she ask these questions then? If I go to a shop and I need info
and I either don't get it or if its bullshit then I'm off to another
shop pretty quickly, mobile phones or whatever..
>
>Yeah, maybe she has relatives, but Thatcher taught us there was no such
>thing as society, didn't she?
Jesus Christ!, just how long has she been gone now;?...
--
Tony Sayer
Jon Green
> In article<Jsv*nT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Cris Galletly
> <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
>> thing as society, didn't she?
>
> Jesus Christ!, just how long has she been gone now;?...
By the looks of things, she's just made a covert reappearance.
Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
with 'green-lines'.
Blog: http://bit.ly/45cLHw Pix: http://bit.ly/d8V2NJ
Website: http://www.green-lines.com/
Mark Goodge
typed:
>In message <Jsv*nT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 13:59:35 on Mon,
>7 Jun 2010, Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>>>Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
>>>fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
>>>to her?.
>>
>>And maybe not. Maybe this really is ripping off vulnerable elderly
>>people.
>
>No it isn't. The phone is incredibly cheap and all they need to do is
>buy a SIM. Complaining about this is like complaining you have to out
>petrol in a car.
She probably complains when supermarkets make her pay for Range Eggs, as
well.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Lyn
wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:03:01 +0100, Roland Perry put finger to keyboard and
> typed:
>
> >In message <Jsv*nT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, at 13:59:35 on Mon,
> >>>Well times change and perhaps she needs to learn about some of these new
> >>>fangled things. Aren't there any relatives around who could explain it
> >>>to her?.
>
> >>And maybe not. Maybe this really is ripping off vulnerable elderly
> >>people.
>
> >No it isn't. The phone is incredibly cheap and all they need to do is
> >buy a SIM. Complaining about this is like complaining you have to out
> >petrol in a car.
>
> She probably complains when supermarkets make her pay for Range Eggs, as
> well.
>
> Mark
> --
> Blog:http://mark.goodge.co.uk
> Stuff:http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
There is so much new jargon out now for we old ladies.
What is a "Range Egg"? Is that similar to "Free Range"?
I hear there is a new Apple iPhone out tonight with a gyro for "Extra
smoothness". For what? Smooth to the face?
Lyn
Duncan Wood
No, you have to pay for them;-)
zulu
"Malcolm Gray" <malcolm-...@jobstream.com> wrote in message
news:8nvud7-...@malcolmdesk.malph.dyndns.org.malph.dyndns.org...
> On 06/06/2010 19:00, John Murphy wrote:
This is no worse than buying a *HD Ready* TV which actually is not HD
_ready_, but HD _capable_, which is an entirely different thing!
(Yes, i got caught out, and so did many others...)
"caveat emptor*
(That's Latin for *They will rob you blind if you're not careful*)
<g>
--
�zulu� VIP
zulu
"Lyn" <sens...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:83a03baa-eebd-4472...@w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
No.....
It lets the money slide out of your wallet so smoothly you don't even miss
it!
--
�zulu� VIP
Tim Ward
news:UddPn.27447$on1.12402@hurricane...
>
> What is a "Range Egg"? Is that similar to "Free Range"?
And what's a "wireless free zone"?
Might it be a caff where you can actually find somewhere to sit down and
drink a cup of coffee, without finding every table full of laptops?
Nope, it means exactly the opposite.
--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor
magwitch
> "zulu" <zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:UddPn.27447$on1.12402@hurricane...
>> What is a "Range Egg"? Is that similar to "Free Range"?
>
> And what's a "wireless free zone"?
>
> Might it be a caff where you can actually find somewhere to sit down and
> drink a cup of coffee, without finding every table full of laptops?
>
> Nope, it means exactly the opposite.
>
In the olden days we used cafes to get _away_ from work for half an
hour. Now there is no escape.
The Natural Philosopher
I expect its to solve the inmate screen juddering you get when you have
had a hard night boozing, and you have a machine that tries to sense the
way up it is and rotate the text to always point downwards.
Other machines dont need this, because they are not designed to be read
upside down, it being a general rule that anyone who is so stupid they
don't know which way up the screen is, is too stupid to use a computer,
but this of course is not a computer, its an Apple I-phone.
Designed to part a lot of money from a very little brain.
>
> No.....
>
> It lets the money slide out of your wallet so smoothly you don't even miss
> it!
>
That's the stuff, yeas.
The Natural Philosopher
> "zulu" <zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:UddPn.27447$on1.12402@hurricane...
>> What is a "Range Egg"? Is that similar to "Free Range"?
>
> And what's a "wireless free zone"?
Its a place that is full of wires of course!
Or a place that is dirt cheap and hasn't any.
The Natural Philosopher
Ther is Always the Garden.
Kev Bishop
"Cris Galletly" <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:iQw*4T...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> In article <ycydnaIRNr9jipHR...@brightview.co.uk>,
> Kev Bishop <kevb@> wrote:
>>Slight variation on the usual computer PICNIC error, PICNIR (Problem In
>>Chair Not In Retailer).
>
> I think you meant PEBKAC as the first one, but never mind.
Problem In Chair Not In Computer <>=PEBKAC
>
> Oh how charitable you are. Have you the first idea about eldercare
> issues?
> --
> + Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> +
Yes, not that that would have much to do with the OP autoblaming the
retailer?
If you actually read the post it appears to me that it is they that were
asked by the lady and they that have blamed the retailer, the lady just
wanted the phone to work and better advice would have done that.
Harping on on here has done nothing to help and indeed the OP appears to
have done more harm than good for this lady.
oh how charitable you are, have you the first idea of reading in context?
HAND etc
Theo Markettos
> This is no worse than buying a *HD Ready* TV which actually is not HD
> _ready_, but HD _capable_, which is an entirely different thing!
> (Yes, i got caught out, and so did many others...)
Theo
Roland Perry
01:54:13 on Tue, 8 Jun 2010, Kev Bishop <kevb@?.?.invalid> remarked:
>the lady just wanted the phone to work and better advice would have
>done that.
Indeed, like the advice I gave: Buy a SIM from ASDA.
>Harping on on here has done nothing to help and indeed the OP appears
>to have done more harm than good for this lady.
Yep, he's replaced a new phone with 3yr warranty, lots of features the
lady could have done with, and on sale at about half the regular price,
with a cast-off standard phone.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
8 Jun 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>> This is no worse than buying a *HD Ready* TV which actually is not HD
>> _ready_, but HD _capable_, which is an entirely different thing!
>> (Yes, i got caught out, and so did many others...)
>
>http://www.xkcd.com/732/
But they do look gorgeous if you plug a Blu-Ray player into them.
<cam.misc>
And then play a Blu-Ray disc
</cam.misc>
--
Roland Perry
Naich
> I expect its to solve the inmate screen juddering you get when you have had a
> hard night boozing, and you have a machine that tries to sense the way up it
> is and rotate the text to always point downwards.
>
> Other machines dont need this, because they are not designed to be read
> upside down, it being a general rule that anyone who is so stupid they don't
> know which way up the screen is, is too stupid to use a computer, but this of
> course is not a computer, its an Apple I-phone.
But what about if you want to use it while hanging upside-down in your
gravity boots, on a roller coaster or in space? Presumably you can lock
it in place? Does Steve allow this?
Naich.
--
http://naich.net ..... My rubbish blog
http://asshol.es ..... Stupidity in pictures
http://sodwork.com ... A waste of time
Motto: Wanna get stoned? Drink Wet Cement!
Linda Fox
> I don't think so. SIM free phones have been described that way for a
> very long time now. I'm not exactly young but I know what it means..
So you presumably understand "fat-free yogurt" to mean "you need to
provide your own fat for this to be fit for use"?
Possibly you underestimate just how far up the tech-savvy ladder you
are, compared to many over-60s[1]. I've owned precisely three mobile
phones in my life, didn't have one at all until ten years ago. ll the
ones I bought came with SIM supplied. I don't hang around phone shops so
I don't think, if I've ever seen the expression SIM-free, that I've ever
considered what it might mean, but normally when the word free is used
to describe something, doesn't it suggest that the thing is not needed,
or possibly undesirable in some circumstances? A smoke-free and pet-free
environment? And if you advertised a torch as "battery free" would you
expect it to mean you also needed to buy batteries or would your first
assumption be that it was one of those wind-up jobbies?
I _suspect_ that the use of the word "free" in the context of SIM free -
that is, as part of the product "title" - is an anomaly, in that it
means "lacking and needed". Can you think of any similar use of the word?
[1]Accounts of 90yo grannies designing their own website notwithstanding
Linda ff
Roland Perry
2010, Linda Fox <lind...@ntlworld.com> remarked:
>I _suspect_ that the use of the word "free" in the context of SIM free
>- that is, as part of the product "title" - is an anomaly, in that it
>means "lacking and needed". Can you think of any similar use of the word?
What it means is "this phone does not come with a tie-in to a particular
SIM". Or "is not tied to using a SIM from a particular network".
Geeks (or people buying phones on Ebay - which are almost always
supplied without a SIM even if still 'locked') would recognise the
expression "unlocked" [1]. But that's also got other connotations (eg
keyboard lock, PIN-lock, etc).
The most that's gone wrong at Lidl is simply a failure to display a SIM
for 50p alongside the phone. Which would serve the dual purpose of
alerting people to the need, and immediately satisfying the need.
Of course, some people buying this special-feature phone will be
upgrading from a normal one, and already have a SIM.
[1] Although I just did an eBay search for "unlocked phone" and the
first two hits have "Unlocked SIM Free" in the title.
ps Here's the Binatone version for sale on eBay for £49.99, the Lidl one
is genuinely a bargain price: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/170434222006
And described...
UNLOCKED TO ALL NETWORKS
SIM FREE
OFFICIALY UNLOCKED
Works On All Networks (except 3)
--
Roland Perry
Duncan Wood
wrote:
> On 07/06/2010 15:03, tony sayer wrote:
>
>> I don't think so. SIM free phones have been described that way for a
>> very long time now. I'm not exactly young but I know what it means..
>
> So you presumably understand "fat-free yogurt" to mean "you need to
> provide your own fat for this to be fit for use"?
>
Yup, it's pretty horrible unless you add some cream :-)
> Possibly you underestimate just how far up the tech-savvy ladder you
> are, compared to many over-60s[1]. I've owned precisely three mobile
> phones in my life, didn't have one at all until ten years ago. ll the
> ones I bought came with SIM supplied. I don't hang around phone shops so
> I don't think, if I've ever seen the expression SIM-free, that I've ever
> considered what it might mean, but normally when the word free is used
> to describe something, doesn't it suggest that the thing is not needed,
> or possibly undesirable in some circumstances? A smoke-free and pet-free
> environment? And if you advertised a torch as "battery free" would you
> expect it to mean you also needed to buy batteries or would your first
> assumption be that it was one of those wind-up jobbies?
>
> I _suspect_ that the use of the word "free" in the context of SIM free -
> that is, as part of the product "title" - is an anomaly, in that it
> means "lacking and needed". Can you think of any similar use of the word?
>
> [1]Accounts of 90yo grannies designing their own website notwithstanding
>
> Linda ff
--
Duncan Wood
Theo Markettos
> Possibly you underestimate just how far up the tech-savvy ladder you
> are, compared to many over-60s[1].
I don't disagree. But I might suggest that supermarkets aren't the place to
buy things if you need customer service. Buy a bike in a supermarket and
you'll likely get a cardboard box, an allen key and an A4 sheet of
hieroglyphs suggesting how you might assemble it. If you want a
ready-to-run bike, go to a bike shop.
Likewise if you buy a pot of yogurt, don't expect to be able to ask someone
how to make a cheese sauce with it. If you want someone knowledgeable about
the things they sell, go to a local deli instead.
For those who do know what they're doing, supermarkets are cheaper precisely
because they don't have to employ knowledgeable staff.
> I _suspect_ that the use of the word "free" in the context of SIM free -
> that is, as part of the product "title" - is an anomaly, in that it
> means "lacking and needed". Can you think of any similar use of the word?
It really means that it isn't tied to using a particular SIM, which maybe
90% of phones sold in the UK are. "SIM unchained" perhaps, a bit like
"region free" on DVDs. You can equally buy 'SIM locked' phones without
SIMs, but they aren't 'SIM free'. If you bought it in a real phone shop they
would offer you a choice of SIMs.
Theo
zulu
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VPJ0YiXW...@perry.co.uk...
FWIW, I bought mine not only to use as a monitor, but also to watch TV on...
( I have to sit right in front of the darned thing to even _see_ what's on
it.
The *HD ready* wasn't particularly relevant to my needs at the time, but I
did think it meant READY rather than just CAPABLE.
Which is what I was _meant_ to believe, of course...
Nobody mentioned that I would have to buy a strap-on box to actually _get_
HD.
So, yes, in that context, I got caught!
Mow, of course, the are getting rid of old stock so that rhey can flog us
sets that are _truly_ HD READY!
...or are they?
--
�zulu� VIP
Brian Morrison
Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> It really means that it isn't tied to using a particular SIM,
It's very rare to have a phone locked to a particular SIM. Many years
ago there were some Philips Cellnet PAYG phones that did that, but for
the vast majority where the SP lock (it means Subsidy Protection BTW)
is set then it simply locks to the MCC-MNC so that you cannot use a SIM
from a different network.
--
Brian Morrison
Duncan Wood
Well they don't come with a free supply of blu ray discs & a player.
--
Duncan Wood
David Woodhouse
> Linda Fox <lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Possibly you underestimate just how far up the tech-savvy ladder you
> > are, compared to many over-60s[1].
>
> I don't disagree. But I might suggest that supermarkets aren't the place to
> buy things if you need customer service. Buy a bike in a supermarket and
> you'll likely get a cardboard box, an allen key and an A4 sheet of
> hieroglyphs suggesting how you might assemble it. If you want a
> ready-to-run bike, go to a bike shop.
>
> Likewise if you buy a pot of yogurt, don't expect to be able to ask someone
> how to make a cheese sauce with it. If you want someone knowledgeable about
> the things they sell, go to a local deli instead.
>
> For those who do know what they're doing, supermarkets are cheaper precisely
> because they don't have to employ knowledgeable staff.
Unfortunately if it's electronics you're seeking, that option doesn't
seem to exist -- I'm not aware of anywhere you can go to find truly
knowledgeable staff in a retail store.
OTOH they ought to manage the _real_ basics like 'mobile phones need a
SIM card', that anyone on the street could have told you.
--
dwmw2
zulu
"Linda Fox" <lind...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:T9nPn.28594$hP7.3920@hurricane...
I gree with all that ...
How "free" got to mean "without" is beyond my underatanding.
I am on my second mobile, and can use it _as a phone_ with the aid of a
magnifying glass...
Most of it's other capabilities are wasted on me, unfortunately.
As for texting...
....no chance!!
I bought one for my wife at the same time, but she has never got to grips
with it enough to even _answer_ it. <bang head here>..
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
zulu
"Duncan Wood" <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote in message
news:op.vdzcfmpsrpivgb@rachel...
That's OK, I wouldn't want them anyway...
--
�zulu� VIP
Eleanor Blair
>The *HD ready* wasn't particularly relevant to my needs at the time, but I
>did think it meant READY rather than just CAPABLE.
>Which is what I was _meant_ to believe, of course...
>Nobody mentioned that I would have to buy a strap-on box to actually _get_
>HD.
>
>sets that are _truly_ HD READY!
I presume the new sets will receive freeview in HD, when freeview starts
broadcasting in HD, which it doesn't here yet. I suppose that's more
ready than the previous sets like the one you bought, but you'd still
need to buy a strap-on box (sky or freesat or cable) to get actually get
HD on it right now.
According to http://www.freeview.co.uk/HD it should be available in
this region (via the Sandy Heath transmitter) from April next year.
Ben Harris
zulu <zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>How "free" got to mean "without" is beyond my underatanding.
According to the OED, it's been used in that sense since before 1325,
and in compounds since 1648, though generally in conjunction with
something objectionable (e.g "trouble-free") rather than something
desirable as here. It seems to have come from the general sense of
"free" as "unrestricted".
--
Ben Harris
tony sayer
Woodhouse <dw...@infradead.org> scribeth thus
Next time ask a teenager for more information than you could possibly
want to know;!...
--
Tony Sayer
Roland Perry
>It really means that it isn't tied to using a particular SIM,
Particular network
>which maybe 90% of phones sold in the UK are.
90% *are* locked to a network, I think you mean. (Not 90% aren't).
--
Roland Perry
The Natural Philosopher
as in 'fear free' = free FROM fear.
so SIM Free = FREE FROM SIMS.
but of course, it wont work..
anyway generally use of free as a post adjective means free FROM, where
as a pre adjecrive means untrestricted access to
So 'free drink', means there's lots of unrestricted beer
'drink free' means there's none.
David Woodhouse
> Next time ask a teenager for more information than you could possibly
> want to know;!...
Which teenager? Not the ones in PC World... or any I've ever found in
any electronics retail establishment.
--
dwmw2
John Burnham
You could try the time honoured trick of asking a member of staff and then
looking round to see if anyone is groaning or covering their face with
their hands in despair at the answer given and then go talk to them.
J
Roland Perry
2010, zulu <zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> remarked:
>The *HD ready* wasn't particularly relevant to my needs at the time, but I
>did think it meant READY rather than just CAPABLE.
>Which is what I was _meant_ to believe, of course...
>Nobody mentioned that I would have to buy a strap-on box to actually _get_
>HD.
If the TV doesn't have a satellite receiver in it, it can't possibly be
"Ready" to receive satellite HD without an external box.
Ditto for HD-cable-TV. I don't think I've ever seen a TV that included a
cable receiver (even for normal-definition cable), but perhaps they
exist.
You could make a case that if the TV included a Freeview Tuner, then you
could expect it to receive Freeview HD (when eventually transmitted)
rather than just normal-definition Freeview. That's probably the main
bone of contention.
I do wonder when the standard for Freeview-HD was frozen, though, and
how long after that one could realistically expect compliant TVs to be
in the shops. Apparently there are only a handful of compliant add-on
boxes even now.
If all the TV has is an analogue tuner, then there's no such thing in UK
as Analogue-HD. So an external box is required for all types of HD (or
even for normal-definition Freeview).
--
Roland Perry
zulu
"Ben Harris" <bj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:hulcon$bvs$1...@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk...
Did you notice the hyphen tying *trouble* and *free* together.?
It's there for a reason...
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
zulu
"David Woodhouse" <dw...@infradead.org> wrote in message
news:1276001853.26...@macbook.infradead.org...
--
I asked a salesman in PC World which of their TV range could operate on 12
volts DC.
He asked me what *DC* stood for...
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
zulu
"Eleanor Blair" <ele...@the-blairs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xci*8X...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
TY, but I doubt that I will bother .
I'd settle for seeing SD without nearly burning my nose on the screen! <g>
--
�zulu� VIP
zulu
Funny thing is, I never saw a TV advertised as *Freeview ready* back when
the first Freeview boxes came out.
I guess no bright salesman had thought of it...
...or a placard in a shop stating that you would need ancillary equipment to
actually _receive_ HD.
They obviously preferred you to find out _after_ you had purchased your new
telly.
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
magwitch
restyled Apple i-phone to work during a presentation of the device.
Tim Ward
news:1276001853.26...@macbook.infradead.org...
Teenager in mobile phone shop:
"Sorry mate, it's Monday morning, I was on holiday last week, so I missed
the training on this week's new models, so no, I don't know how most of our
current phones work."
Not his fault if the products change so fast that his skills have a one week
lifetime!
--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
Are you really saying that only 10% of phones are on contract on the O2
and Vodafone networks? They are (or always used to be) unlocked.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
on Tue, 8 Jun 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>> >It really means that it isn't tied to using a particular SIM,
>>
>> Particular network
>>
>> >which maybe 90% of phones sold in the UK are.
>>
>> 90% *are* locked to a network, I think you mean. (Not 90% aren't).
>
>Are you really saying that only 10% of phones are on contract on the O2
>and Vodafone networks? They are (or always used to be) unlocked.
Too many double negatives... I'm saying that maybe 90% of phones sold on
the High Street *are* locked to a network. That's how they are able to
supply something costing typically several hundred pounds to build for
an up-front sum of between zero and a few tens of pounds.
--
Roland Perry
Tim Ward
>
> That's how they are able to supply something costing typically several
> hundred pounds to build for an up-front sum of between zero and a few tens
> of pounds.
I understand that ... and therefore I don't get how for another tenner (or
whatever) they'll remove the lock for you, at the point and time of initial
purchase.
tony sayer
Woodhouse <dw...@infradead.org> scribeth thus
As maybe .. but they sure know all there is to know about mobile doggy
bones;!...
--
Tony Sayer
Roland Perry
2010, Tim Ward <t...@brettward.co.uk> remarked:
>> That's how they are able to supply something costing typically several
>> hundred pounds to build for an up-front sum of between zero and a few tens
>> of pounds.
>
>I understand that ... and therefore I don't get how for another tenner (or
>whatever) they'll remove the lock for you, at the point and time of initial
>purchase.
Is that an official unlock in one of the shops owned by a network
operator, or the average price a backstreet place will charge?
--
Roland Perry
Tim Ward
High Street shop in Cambridge. Bought a phone and a SIM and specified that I
needed to be able to use the phone with other SIMs and the SIM with other
phones. "That'll be an extra tenner then please sir." On the same invoice as
the phone and the network connection.
Kev Bishop
"Tim Ward" <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote in message
news:877rvl...@mid.individual.net...
Because if it's a PAYG then you have paid for it, those usually also make
you buy a set top up immediately so the headline price is artificially
lower.
Although I suspect you meant the monthly contract type, which are the ones
Roland referenced, in which case they mostly now will indeed unlock at any
time from inception however you are still committed to completing the
contract payments you signed up for, so in effect if you then choose to use
A N Other company and pay them for minutes you already pay for in the
monthly then the original company is getting paid for service use you don't
actually make use of.
Errm yep think that's prolly why ;)
Cris Galletly
tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>Do you really think thats a scam?. If the lady went to the shop why
>didn't she ask these questions then? If I go to a shop and I need info
>and I either don't get it or if its bullshit then I'm off to another
>shop pretty quickly, mobile phones or whatever..
This is exactly what you don't get. Not everybody is actually capable
of detecting bullshit. Or even knowing what questions to ask to work out
whether what they're being told is bullshit.
--
+ Cris Galletly <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> +
tony sayer
<gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
So just how does she function in a modern environment then?..
--
Tony Sayer
Roland Perry
>> operator, or the average price a backstreet place will charge?
>
>High Street shop in Cambridge. Bought a phone and a SIM and specified that I
>needed to be able to use the phone with other SIMs and the SIM with other
>phones. "That'll be an extra tenner then please sir." On the same invoice as
>the phone and the network connection.
Was it one of the shops owned by a network, and/or a well known chain
like Carphone Warehouse?
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
01:35:27 on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Kev Bishop <kevb@?.?.invalid> remarked:
>Although I suspect you meant the monthly contract type, which are the
>ones Roland referenced, in which case they mostly now will indeed
>unlock at any time from inception however you are still committed to
>completing the contract payments you signed up for, so in effect if you
>then choose to use A N Other company and pay them for minutes you
>already pay for in the monthly then the original company is getting
>paid for service use you don't actually make use of.
>Errm yep think that's prolly why ;)
Maybe that's why there are so many brand new unlocked phones for sale on
eBay... people get a contract phone then have it unlocked, but use the
SIM in their original phone. I'm going to CPW later so I'll ask them
about unlocking a brand new phone.
--
Roland Perry
Theo Markettos
> Maybe that's why there are so many brand new unlocked phones for sale on
> eBay... people get a contract phone then have it unlocked, but use the
> SIM in their original phone. I'm going to CPW later so I'll ask them
> about unlocking a brand new phone.
According to uk.telecom.mobile, CPW and Asda Mobile[1] typically supply
unlocked phones (as it makes their stock management easier).
[1] Not sure if that's all phones in Asda or just those on Asda Mobile.
Theo
Duncan Wood
Or an old environment.
Jon Green
> Maybe that's why there are so many brand new unlocked phones for sale on
> eBay... people get a contract phone then have it unlocked, but use the
> SIM in their original phone. I'm going to CPW later so I'll ask them
> about unlocking a brand new phone.
Unusually in the industry. Carphone Warehouse phones are usually
unlocked. That doesn't mean they're not branded, though: it's not
uncommon to fire up a new CPW phone and get a semi-random network
operator's logo -- but it'll accept any SIM.
It's a real incentive to use CPW.
In other news, CPW's dedicated O2 operation is winding down -- O2 wants
to take back the customer database, and isn't giving CPW any attractive
upgrade deals any more. I'm just about to wind up my contract and PAC
the number onto a new (direct from O2) contract SIM at half the price,
because CPW's "Loyalty Team" -- the folks whose job it is to prevent
churn by offering high-value customers at end of contract sweet deals to
stay with them -- can't offer the same contract deal that O2 can over
the counter. Shame.
Jon
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
with 'green-lines'.
Blog: http://bit.ly/45cLHw Pix: http://bit.ly/d8V2NJ
Website: http://www.green-lines.com/
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
I've never had a locked phone because I've always had an O2 (and
previously Cellnet) contract.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
zulu
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:IKzR8rH4...@bancom.co.uk...
The sane way I often have to, I expect....
,,,with difficulty!
Most things get harder with age...and there is always Viagra for the rest!
<g>
(and it's not even Friday yet)
--
ŚzuluŚ VIP
Roland Perry
9 Jun 2010, Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> remarked:
>> Maybe that's why there are so many brand new unlocked phones for sale on
>> eBay... people get a contract phone then have it unlocked, but use the
>> SIM in their original phone. I'm going to CPW later so I'll ask them
>> about unlocking a brand new phone.
>
>According to uk.telecom.mobile, CPW and Asda Mobile[1] typically supply
>unlocked phones (as it makes their stock management easier).
At CPW today they were in "ignore the queue" mode so I didn't get to
ask. And their catalogue does exactly what it says on the can: "Phones";
very few "prices" and nothing at all about "Networks".
--
Roland Perry
Duncan Wood
<zulu.romeo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:IKzR8rH4...@bancom.co.uk...
>> In article <fbl*6m...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Cris Galletly
>> <gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
>>> In article <VRjm6rB6...@bancom.co.uk>,
>>> tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Do you really think thats a scam?. If the lady went to the shop why
>>>> didn't she ask these questions then? If I go to a shop and I need info
>>>> and I either don't get it or if its bullshit then I'm off to another
>>>> shop pretty quickly, mobile phones or whatever..
>>>
>>> This is exactly what you don't get. Not everybody is actually capable
>>> of detecting bullshit. Or even knowing what questions to ask to work
>>> out
>>> whether what they're being told is bullshit.
>>
>> So just how does she function in a modern environment then?..
>> --
>
> The sane way I often have to, I expect....
>
Whilst you can that's probably for the best ;-)
> ,,,with difficulty!
>
> Most things get harder with age...and there is always Viagra for the
> rest!
> <g>
>
> (and it's not even Friday yet)
>
To be honest one can't help but feel that her problems are down to having
a friend who doesn't just tell her she needs a 5-p Sim card rather than
claiming it's all an enormous scam.
Roland Perry
on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>> Maybe that's why there are so many brand new unlocked phones for
>> sale on eBay... people get a contract phone then have it unlocked,
>> but use the SIM in their original phone. I'm going to CPW later so
>> I'll ask them about unlocking a brand new phone.
>
>I've never had a locked phone because I've always had an O2 (and
>previously Cellnet) contract.
And you suspect they've always sold you an unlocked phone?
These folks seem to believe the accepted wisdom that most would have
been sold locked to O2:
http://www.foneszone.co.uk/unlock/how_to/O2/.php
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Duncan Wood <nntp...@dmx512.co.uk> remarked:
>To be honest one can't help but feel that her problems are down to
>having a friend who doesn't just tell her she needs a 5-p Sim card
>rather than claiming it's all an enormous scam.
Yep - what he should have done is popped down to ASDA and bought her a
50p SIM, and loaded a few quid on it for her.
--
Roland Perry
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
Where does that show any evidence one way or the other? It's only about
unlocking locked phones so if your phone isn't locked you have no need for
them.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
Do you suspect this?
>> These folks seem to believe the accepted wisdom that most would
>> have been sold locked to O2:
>>
>> http://www.foneszone.co.uk/unlock/how_to/O2/.php
>
>Where does that show any evidence one way or the other? It's only about
>unlocking locked phones so if your phone isn't locked you have no need for
>them.
And if most of the phones (or even all of them) were supplied inherently
unlocked, they wouldn't have a business.
There are enough phones "locked to O2" on sale on eBay that I suspect
you are confused about the actual situation.
--
Roland Perry
Cris Galletly
tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <fbl*6m...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Cris Galletly
><gall...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
>>of detecting bullshit. Or even knowing what questions to ask to work out
>>whether what they're being told is bullshit.
>
>So just how does she function in a modern environment then?..
I dunno, as I haven't met the lady in question. I was talking about my
dad, and the answer to that is either "he doesn't" or "very badly"
depending on the day.
I've tried to get him to use a mobile phone for years, even written him
user manuals for them, but to no avail. Either he forgot to charge it, or
forgot how to turn it on, or forgot to read the user manual ... Basically
with my father if there's a chance he can get someone to do things for him
by appearing helpless and incompetent, he'll take it. To the point where
he now actually *is* helpless and incompetent at anything that doesn't
matter to him.
Still, he's been banned from driving now, so that takes away one obvious
reason he might have needed a mobile phone.
Jon Green
> In message <0tudndlCYsrb8ZLR...@giganews.com>, at 05:26:14
> on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>> previously Cellnet) contract.
>
> And you suspect they've always sold you an unlocked phone?
>
> These folks seem to believe the accepted wisdom that most would have
> been sold locked to O2:
>
> http://www.foneszone.co.uk/unlock/how_to/O2/.php
Depends, as has been previously stated, whether it was bought through CPW.
Duncan Wood
wrote:
Wheren't all their PAYG phones locked & the contract ones unlocked?
Roland Perry
on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Duncan Wood <nntp...@dmx512.co.uk> remarked:
>> There are enough phones "locked to O2" on sale on eBay
>
>Wheren't all their PAYG phones locked & the contract ones unlocked?
That would be consistent with a business model that made people continue
to pay their contract for a year, even if the phone was used with a
different SIM, and even if the phone had <cough> been sold to someone.
--
Roland Perry
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
Where have you been Roland? Ane fule kno that's what Cellnet and Vodafone
did from the start of PAYG.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk remarked:
>> That would be consistent with a business model that made people
>> continue to pay their contract for a year, even if the phone was
>> used with a different SIM, and even if the phone had <cough> been
>> sold to someone.
>
>Where have you been Roland? Ane fule kno that's what Cellnet and Vodafone
>did from the start of PAYG.
I admit I may not have been looking at the marketplace much in the last
couple of years, but I was doing some work on early PAYG platforms for
Vodafone 15 years ago, and phones remained locked for ages after that.
--
Roland Perry
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Perry) wrote:
Only PAYG!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Tim Ward
Think it was a chain who offered a choice of networks. Can't be bothered to
look out the paperwork.
Roland Perry
>> last couple of years, but I was doing some work on early PAYG
>> platforms for Vodafone 15 years ago, and phones remained locked for
>> ages after that.
>
>Only PAYG!
There were still contract phones that were locked well after PAYG was
introduced (in perhaps 1997).
--
Roland Perry
Duncan Wood
wrote:
> In message <39qdnUQi4-q6XJLR...@giganews.com>, at 11:28:23
Oranges spring to mind.
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
nntp...@dmx512.co.uk (Duncan Wood) wrote:
Exactly. NOT on O2 or Vodafone.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
However, I got an O2 PAYG phone last month which was locked to O2.
Duncan Wood
Wasn't that Rolands pont?
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
nntp...@dmx512.co.uk (Duncan Wood) wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Rupert Moss-Eccardt
> <r.moss-...@computer.org> wrote:
>
> > rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
> >> In article<op.vd1rh...@lucy.cable.virginmedia.net>,
> >> nntp...@dmx512.co.uk (Duncan Wood) wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:24:41 +0100, Roland Perry
> >>> <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In message<39qdnUQi4-q6XJLR...@giganews.com>, at
> >>>> 11:28:23 on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> >>>> remarked:
> >>>>>> I admit I may not have been looking at the marketplace much in
> >>>>>> the last couple of years, but I was doing some work on early PAYG
> >>>>>> platforms for Vodafone 15 years ago, and phones remained locked
> >>>>>> for ages after that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Only PAYG!
> >>>>
> >>>> There were still contract phones that were locked well after PAYG
> >>>> was introduced (in perhaps 1997).
> >>>
> >>> Oranges spring to mind.
> >>
> >> Exactly. NOT on O2 or Vodafone.
> >
> > However, I got an O2 PAYG phone last month which was locked to O2.
>
> Wasn't that Rolands pont?
And my point ONLY related to CONTRACT phones! Do keep up!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Kev Bishop
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wAeNrPHI...@perry.co.uk...
> In message <xoidnanuxJbgfJPR...@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 01:35:27 on Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Kev Bishop <kevb@?.?.invalid> remarked:
>>Although I suspect you meant the monthly contract type, which are the ones
>>Roland referenced, in which case they mostly now will indeed unlock at any
>>time from inception however you are still committed to completing the
>>contract payments you signed up for, so in effect if you then choose to
>>use A N Other company and pay them for minutes you already pay for in the
>>monthly then the original company is getting paid for service use you
>>don't actually make use of.
>>Errm yep think that's prolly why ;)
>
> Maybe that's why there are so many brand new unlocked phones for sale on
> eBay... people get a contract phone then have it unlocked, but use the SIM
> in their original phone. I'm going to CPW later so I'll ask them about
> unlocking a brand new phone.
> --
> Roland Perry
No maybe about it, that is the vast majority, they mostly say so as well,
;)
Kev Bishop
<rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d6adncSUf7WJnI3R...@giganews.com...
Whilst O2 have *generally* given unlocked phones, they also do supply some
locked, even on monthly Colin, and not only Iphones, their early n95
contract phones were also locked.
It is a fairly recent (in the last 12 months or so) that the operators have
agreed to unlock for a modest fee as long as the contract is honoured by the
customer.
bob
> In message <7hpPn.26728$No5.1625@hurricane>, at 11:51:47 on Tue, 8 Jun
> 2010, zulu <zulu.romeotangoho...@ntlworld.com> remarked:
>
> >The *HD ready* wasn't particularly relevant to my needs at the time, but I
> >did think it meant READY rather than just CAPABLE.
> >Which is what I was _meant_ to believe, of course...
> >Nobody mentioned that I would have to buy a strap-on box to actually _get_
> >HD.
>
> If the TV doesn't have a satellite receiver in it, it can't possibly be
> "Ready" to receive satellite HD without an external box.
>
> Ditto for HD-cable-TV. I don't think I've ever seen a TV that included a
> cable receiver (even for normal-definition cable), but perhaps they
> exist.
They've recently started selling TVs round here with something called
a CI+ slot [1]. Basically it's a slot for a card from your cable
company (of the sort you often find in set top boxes) that identifies
your TV as being associated with a particular contract. Provided your
cable provider is prepared to send the data in the right format and
supply you with the card (I assume there is standardisation in the
world of cable TV, but I don't care enough to look it up), it is
effectively what you describe, a TV with built in cable box.
[1] more specifically they've started advertising that the TVs they
sell round here have them, because the local cable company is just
starting to roll out support for this technology. It's entirely
possible the TVs have had them for a long time, but with no support
from the cable company, there's no point in the shops making a fuss
over it.
Robin
Ian Bidwell
"bob" <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:05ae15df-4103-43d3...@k39g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> They've recently started selling TVs round here with something called
> a CI+ slot [1]. Basically it's a slot for a card from your cable
> company (of the sort you often find in set top boxes) that identifies
> your TV as being associated with a particular contract. Provided your
> cable provider is prepared to send the data in the right format and
> supply you with the card (I assume there is standardisation in the
> world of cable TV, but I don't care enough to look it up), it is
> effectively what you describe, a TV with built in cable box.
>
> [1] more specifically they've started advertising that the TVs they
> sell round here have them, because the local cable company is just
> starting to roll out support for this technology. It's entirely
> possible the TVs have had them for a long time, but with no support
> from the cable company, there's no point in the shops making a fuss
> over it.
>
> Robin
No that's all wrong. A CI slot is for a decoder card but not one for a
cable connection(at least in the UK)
The CI slot will decode Top up TV on 'freeview' or some Satellite stations.
What it does not do is decode either Virgin cable or Sky.
Some TVs include a 'cable tuner' but they are useless in the Uk (they were
analogue tuners in a special band)
Ian
bob
> "bob" <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:05ae15df-4103-43d3...@k39g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> They've recently started selling TVs round here with something called
> > a CI+ slot [1]. Basically it's a slot for a card from your cable
> > company (of the sort you often find in set top boxes) that identifies
> > your TV as being associated with a particular contract. Provided your
> > cable provider is prepared to send the data in the right format and
> > supply you with the card (I assume there is standardisation in the
> > world of cable TV, but I don't care enough to look it up), it is
> > effectively what you describe, a TV with built in cable box.
>
> > [1] more specifically they've started advertising that the TVs they
> > sell round here have them, because the local cable company is just
> > starting to roll out support for this technology. It's entirely
> > possible the TVs have had them for a long time, but with no support
> > from the cable company, there's no point in the shops making a fuss
> > over it.
>
> > Robin
>
> No that's all wrong. A CI slot is for a decoder card but not one for a
> cable connection(at least in the UK)
I can assure you it isn't "all wrong" (see [1] for the cable company's
page advertising the service), it's just that "round here" isn't in
the UK. I was taking the discussion as being about the more general
concept of a TV with a built in cable receiver rather than the
specific case of a TV with a built in receiver for Virgin Media.
[1] http://www.cablecom.ch/en/digicard.htm
> The CI slot will decode Top up TV on 'freeview' or some Satellite stations.
>
> What it does not do is decode either Virgin cable or Sky.
Is that a hardware limitation (eg wrong compression/encryption/
modulation scheme), or simply because Virgin and Sky are happier to
tie you into their own set top box rather than supporting this
alternative technology?
> Some TVs include a 'cable tuner' but they are useless in the Uk (they were
> analogue tuners in a special band)
My TV has both an analogue and digital "cable tuner" in it (a late
2008 model), but nobody round here supplies an appropriate cable
signal to feed into it. How much standardisation exists in the world
of cable and satelite TV? I can imagine cable and satelite suppliers
are happy keeping all their services behind a set top box that they
can then charge you for.
Robin
Ian Bidwell
"bob" <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:348270ba-2b18-4a80...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> I can assure you it isn't "all wrong" (see [1] for the cable company's
> page advertising the service), it's just that "round here" isn't in
> the UK. I was taking the discussion as being about the more general
> concept of a TV with a built in cable receiver rather than the
> specific case of a TV with a built in receiver for Virgin Media.
>
> [1] http://www.cablecom.ch/en/digicard.htm
>
> Is that a hardware limitation (eg wrong compression/encryption/
> modulation scheme), or simply because Virgin and Sky are happier to
> tie you into their own set top box rather than supporting this
> alternative technology?
>
> Robin
Sky for some time and Virgin (currently rolling out) have a secure system
and do not want their revenues compromised
Ian
rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Bidwell) wrote:
Which of them trade where Robin is (Switzerland)?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
bob
I assume, though, that their technology is off the shelf. By that I
mean that behind the Sky or Virgin branding, the set top box they
actually send to you is made by one of the usual consumer electronics
manufacturers? I further assume that they have not gone to the
expense of coming up with some special encoding/compression scheme for
their data streams, but rather use some relatively standard
technology. In this case, the card that they slot into their off the
shelf set top box will give just as much security as a card slotted
into a CI card slot in the back of someone's telly. Or is it the "get
your new Sky+ HD box for only £9.99 a month" revenue stream that you
had in mind that they don't want compromised?
Robin
Ian Bidwell
"bob" <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28077fbe-67b6-4be8...@k39g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> I assume, though, that their technology is off the shelf. By that I
> mean that behind the Sky or Virgin branding, the set top box they
> actually send to you is made by one of the usual consumer electronics
> manufacturers? I further assume that they have not gone to the
> expense of coming up with some special encoding/compression scheme for
> their data streams, but rather use some relatively standard
> technology. In this case, the card that they slot into their off the
> shelf set top box will give just as much security as a card slotted
> into a CI card slot in the back of someone's telly. Or is it the "get
> your new Sky+ HD box for only £9.99 a month" revenue stream that you
> had in mind that they don't want compromised?
>
> Robin
No Sky own the company that designs their encryption and all boxes have to
be built to their spec.
Virgin have purchased off the self tech but it pairs the card to one
specific box and will not work in another.
Ian
tony sayer
>> analogue tuners in a special band)
Indeed..
>
>My TV has both an analogue and digital "cable tuner" in it (a late
>2008 model), but nobody round here supplies an appropriate cable
>signal to feed into it. How much standardisation exists in the world
>of cable and satelite TV?
None..
>I can imagine cable and satelite suppliers
>are happy keeping all their services behind a set top box that they
>can then charge you for.
>
Yes they want to keep their services where they can still get revenues
from them!...
>Robin
--
Tony Sayer
tony sayer
>> and do not want their revenues compromised
>
>I assume, though, that their technology is off the shelf. By that I
>mean that behind the Sky or Virgin branding, the set top box they
>actually send to you is made by one of the usual consumer electronics
>manufacturers? I further assume that they have not gone to the
>expense of coming up with some special encoding/compression scheme for
>their data streams, but rather use some relatively standard
>technology. In this case, the card that they slot into their off the
>shelf set top box will give just as much security as a card slotted
>into a CI card slot in the back of someone's telly. Or is it the "get
>your new Sky+ HD box for only £9.99 a month" revenue stream that you
>had in mind that they don't want compromised?
>
IIRC some of it is in the Sky box, thats to say you can't go out and buy
a standard slot Satellite box and stick a sky card therein..
Rupert has a very secure system and want's to keep it that way....
>Robin
--
Tony Sayer