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Lib Dems tighten control of Cambridge

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Keith Edkins

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May 2, 2002, 9:39:24 PM5/2/02
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Summary:
Lib Dem gain Trumpington from Con.
Labour gain Abbey from Ind (elected as Lab).

New Council:
Lib Dem 24
Labour 16.
Cons 2.

Full results with comparative figures for 2001 (use fixed width font!)

* Denotes sitting councillor.


ABBEY
Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)
Collins, John (Green) ..................... 60 6.2% (113 4.6%)
*Mbaya, Mungai (Ind) ...................... 51 5.2%
Lab gain from Ind. Maj 391. Turnout 20.3%

ARBURY
Todd-Jones, Michael (Lab) ................. 828 41.0% (1389 45.7%)
Moss-Eccardt, Rupert (L Dem) .............. 579 28.7% (857 28.2%)
Boorman, Robert (Con) ..................... 513 25.4% (796 26.2%)
Mitchell, Shayne (Green) .................. 73 3.6%
Minns, Diana (Soc All) .................... 27 1.3%
Lab hold. Maj 249. Turnout 39.2%

CASTLE
*White, J.David (L Dem) ...................1121 51.4% (2377 57.0%)
Boorman, Rhona (Con) ...................... 458 21.0% (805 19.4%)
Richardson, Gillian (Lab) ................. 412 18.9% (965 23.3%)
Lawrence, Stephen (Green) ................. 188 8.6%
Lib Dem hold. Maj 663. Turnout 30.6%

CHERRY HINTON
*Stuart, Graham (Con) .....................1174 49.3% (1380 38.6%)
Newbold, Stuart (Lab) ..................... 948 39.8% (1665 46.5%)
Amrani, Frances (L Dem) ................... 196 8.2% (532 14.9%)
Tayar, Daryl (Green) ...................... 64 2.7%
Con hold. Maj 226. Turnout 43.4%

COLERIDGE
*Bagnall, E.Ruth (Lab) .................... 938 50.6% (1832 49.7%)
Hall, Martin (Con) ........................ 454 24.5% (1064 28.9%)
Monroe, Jonathan (L Dem) .................. 267 14.4% (790 21.4%)
Docherty, Damian (Green) .................. 94 5.1%
Watts, Albert (UKIP) ...................... 53 2.9%
Sedgwick-Jell, Simon (Soc All) ............ 46 2.5%
Lab hold. Maj 484. Turnout 31.3%

EAST CHESTERTON
Bailey, Jennifer (L Dem) ................... 974 40.5% (1760 42.3%)
Woodall, Sarah (Lab) ....................... 858 35.7% (1504 36.2%)
Rashid, Mamanur (Con) ...................... 319 13.3% (893 21.5%)
Hewett, Neil (Green) ....................... 129 5.4%
Hudson, Barry (UKIP) ....................... 124 5.2%
Lib Dem hold. Maj 116. Turnout 33.4%

KING'S HEDGES
Bell, Maria (Lab) .......................... 550 54.6% (1351 57.1%)
Weinman, Cyril (Con) ....................... 235 23.3% (586 24.7%)
Bradford, Evelyn (L Dem) ................... 157 15.6% (431 18.2%)
Goldbeck-Wood, Gerhard (Green) ............. 65 6.5%
Lab hold. Maj 315. Turnout 20.8%

MARKET
*Rosenstiel, Joye (L Dem) .................. 879 57.0% (1939 50.3%)
Chamberlain, Samuel (Con) .................. 239 15.5% (663 17.2%)
Sargeant, Michael (Lab) .................... 238 15.4% (804 20.9%)
Lucas-Smith, Martin (Green) ................ 187 12.1% (446 11.6%)
Lib Dem hold. Maj 640. Turnout 22.4%

NEWNHAM
Reid, Sian (L Dem) .........................1134 56.3% (2489 55.1%)
Wright, H.Patricia (Lab) ................... 372 17.0% (1156 25.6%)
Normington, Richard (Con) .................. 326 16.2% (869 19.3%)
Harrison, Tandy (Green) .................... 190 9.4%
Douglas, Nigel (Ind) ....................... 23 1.1%
Lib Dem hold. Maj 792. Turnout 25.9%

PETERSFIELD
*Blencowe, Kevin (Lab) ..................... 964 40.4% (1647 37.9%)
Wilkins, Kevin (L Dem) ..................... 579 24.3% (1207 27.8%)
Wright, Margaret (Green) ................... 514 21.5% (793 18.2%)
Glendon, Lee (Con) ......................... 257 10.8% (701 16.1%)
Walker, Jonathan (Soc All) ................. 72 3.0%
Lab hold. Maj 385. Turnout 30.2%

QUEEN EDITH'S (2 vacancies)
*Taylor, Amanda (L Dem) ....................1564 62.7% (2255 56.2%)
Baker, Alan (L Dem) ........................1424 57.1% (2255 56.2%)
Henry, Keith (Con) ......................... 473 19.0% (896 22.3%)
Ray, James (Con) ........................... 409 16.4% (896 22.3%)
Harper, Frances (Lab) ...................... 342 13.7% (861 21.5%)
Stevens, Jean (Lab) ........................ 258 10.3% (861 21.5%)
Milsom, Robert (Green) ..................... 160 6.4%
Davies, Helene (UKIP) ...................... 78 3.1%
2 Lib Dem holds. Maj 951. Turnout 40.7% (2495 papers returned)

ROMSEY
*Smart, Catherine (L Dem) .................. 969 44.8% (1414 38.8%)
Sales, Paul (Lab) .......................... 867 40.1% (1454 39.9%)
Russell, Vicky (Green) ..................... 194 9.0% (262 7.2%)
Ellis, Vivian (Con) ........................ 131 6.1% (355 9.8%)
(Ind) (156 4.3%)
Lib Dem hold. Maj 102. Turnout 35.2%

TRUMPINGTON
Pinnington, Judith (L Dem) .................1118 47.5% (1977 53.7%)
Towns, Hannah (Con) ........................ 937 39.8% (1176 32.0%)
Turner, Rosemary (Lab) ..................... 201 8.5% (527 14.3%)
Westcott, Brian (Green) .................... 100 4.2%
Lib Dem gain from Con. Maj 181. Turnout 38.9%

WEST CHESTERTON
*Nimmo-Smith, M.Ian (L Dem) ................1071 51.1% (1864 49.0%)
Schicker, Patrick (Lab) .................... 474 22.6% (1202 31.6%)
Strachan, James (Con) ...................... 350 16.7% (741 19.5%)
Peake, Stephen (Green) ..................... 202 9.6%
Lib Dem hold. Maj 597. Turnout 34.0%


Keith Edkins
Cambridge Liberal Democrats: http://www.cambridgelibdems.org.uk/


Mark Ayliffe

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May 3, 2002, 4:40:07 AM5/3/02
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"Keith Edkins" <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1020389968.10222....@news.demon.co.uk...
<...>
>
> * Denotes sitting councillor.
<...>

What a conservative bunch we are. Only one sitting councillor booted
out and that one had changed allegiance. I suppose masses of new
development, misguided buses and gridlock are now inevitable :(

Mark


Jon Green

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May 3, 2002, 4:49:13 AM5/3/02
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On Fri, 3 May 2002 02:39:24 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
<keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>ABBEY
>Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
>Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
>Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)

...but not in Abbey, it seems!

I wonder what caused the huge swing away from the Lib Dems. Perhaps
it was because (he commented, pointedly) they didn't appear to canvas
or leaflet in the area? (Well, not where we live, anyway.)

The Cons got something of a spanking, too. Guess what? They didn't
canvas or leaflet, either.

Me? Given the alternatives, I voted for the independent. Didn't have
a hope in hell, but at least it gave him more chance to avoid losing
his deposit.


Jon
(living in what's become -- perhaps through opposition party apathy --
the most rigidly Labour ward on the Council *sigh*)
--
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! Replace 'deadspam' with 'green-lines' to reply in email.
Want a free solution to email spam? Try http://www.deadspam.com/
(Declaration of interest: I own/run the domain.)

Robert Macmillan

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May 3, 2002, 4:39:09 AM5/3/02
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"Keith Edkins" <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1020389968.10222....@news.demon.co.uk...
> Summary:
> Lib Dem gain Trumpington from Con.
> Labour gain Abbey from Ind (elected as Lab).
> ....

Can I apologise to the rest of cam.misc please. I hadn't realised
that to be a fully-fledged member of this group it was necessary to
stand in the local elections as a LibDem. I can now see the error of
my ways, even if I can't immediately see the answer to the problem.

Humble gratuities.


Robert

Jon Green

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May 3, 2002, 5:04:00 AM5/3/02
to
On Fri, 3 May 2002 09:39:09 +0100, "Robert Macmillan"
<rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> wrote:

>Can I apologise to the rest of cam.misc please. I hadn't realised
>that to be a fully-fledged member of this group it was necessary to
>stand in the local elections as a LibDem. I can now see the error of
>my ways, even if I can't immediately see the answer to the problem.
>
>Humble gratuities.

...to Party funds? *snigger*


Jon

Paul Oldham

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May 3, 2002, 4:52:00 AM5/3/02
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In article <H1sA8.4$fS6.609@psinet-eu-nl>,
mark.ayl...@nospam.pem.cam.andthis.ac.uk (Mark Ayliffe) growled:

They were anyway. To be honest it's not in the City's gift to prevent it.
The Regional Planning Guidance, brought to us by central government, is
the key document driving the new development; guided buses come from that
and from CHUMMS, another central government document; and the gridlock is
a natural consequence of the first two.

It's all deeply depressing.

--
Paul Oldham, Milton villager
The cam.* FAQ ---> http://the-hug.org/paul/camfaq.html
Milton web site -> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/

Keith Edkins

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May 3, 2002, 5:04:04 AM5/3/02
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"Robert Macmillan" <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aatiqu$ks6$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
Well, all 42 seats are being contested next year due to boundary changes. We
may have a few vancancies for candidates if you apply early enough :-) - and
if you live or principally work within the city boundary.

Keith Edkins
(Cam Lib Dems hat on)


Olly Johnson

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May 3, 2002, 5:05:43 AM5/3/02
to
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Mark Ayliffe wrote:

> What a conservative bunch we are. Only one sitting councillor booted
> out and that one had changed allegiance. I suppose masses of new
> development, misguided buses and gridlock are now inevitable :(

Wait until Marvin the Moose becomes mayor. He'll get rid of the dead wood.

O.

--
otj...@cam.ac.uk http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~johnson 01223 337946
Christ's College and Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge

Keith Edkins

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May 3, 2002, 5:06:57 AM5/3/02
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"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:obj4du847nsn4k0ka...@4ax.com...

> Me? Given the alternatives, I voted for the independent. Didn't have
> a hope in hell, but at least it gave him more chance to avoid losing
> his deposit.
>

Not sure if that was seriously meant, but there are no deposits in local
elections. There are 87614 electors in Cambridge and they're all entitled to
stand (plus untold thousands more who work but don't live within the city).

Keith


Jennifer Liddle

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May 3, 2002, 7:21:06 AM5/3/02
to
Jon Green wibbled:

> (living in what's become -- perhaps through opposition party apathy --
> the most rigidly Labour ward on the Council *sigh*)

Don't be silly.

It's nothing to do with apathy, and everything to do with lack of
resources. If you don't like the fact that Abbey is a safe Labour ward,
then get off your bottom and do something about it. I can't, because I'm
too busy in my own ward.

--
Jennifer Liddle http://www.jsquared.co.uk/jennyl

Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 5:15:21 AM5/3/02
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"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:qik4duk4lm4g3m3hk...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 3 May 2002 09:39:09 +0100, "Robert Macmillan"
> <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Can I apologise to the rest of cam.misc please. I hadn't realised
> >that to be a fully-fledged member of this group it was necessary to
> >stand in the local elections as a LibDem. I can now see the error of
> >my ways, even if I can't immediately see the answer to the problem.
> >
> >Humble gratuities.
>
> ...to Party funds? *snigger*

Money isn't that big a deal actually, although we wouldn't turn it down.
*Time* would be even more welcome.

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Ltd - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor


Robert Macmillan

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May 3, 2002, 5:09:21 AM5/3/02
to

"Keith Edkins" <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1020416822.24298....@news.demon.co.uk...

Of course, if we took politicians' exhortations at their word(s), a
significant fraction of us would stand. Can you imagine a voting
slip with 153 candidates?


Robert


Jon Green

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May 3, 2002, 5:26:04 AM5/3/02
to

Well, I didn't know that! I'd believed there were deposits, but much
smaller than for national elections. I sit corrected.

It was a combination of protest vote and supporting-the-little-guy
anyway, so it wouldn't have made any great difference, but thanks for
the info.


Jon

Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 5:32:28 AM5/3/02
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"Robert Macmillan" <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aatkjj$m5e$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...

>
> Of course, if we took politicians' exhortations at their word(s), a
> significant fraction of us would stand. Can you imagine a voting
> slip with 153 candidates?

I've been in charge of a count where there were around 40. It does make
physical handling of the voting papers rather a pain.

Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 5:36:42 AM5/3/02
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"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:cpl4dugj6a107qaeh...@4ax.com...

>
> It was a combination of protest vote and supporting-the-little-guy
> anyway, so it wouldn't have made any great difference, but thanks for
> the info.

If more people took more of an interest in local politics, and actually knew
who their councillors were, chatted to them in the pub or whatever as Paul
suggests, then Mungai might have done rather better. As it was one suspects
that people just voted "Labour" with no regard as to who the candidate might
be or why there was an independent.

If I'd been living in Abbey I'd probably have voted for him. (Sorry Chris!)

Paul Rudin

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May 3, 2002, 5:37:17 AM5/3/02
to
>>>>> "RM" == Robert Macmillan <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> writes:

[snip horribly formatted cited text]

You asked to be told: your quoted text looks 'orrid.


--
Th' MIND is the Pizza Palace of th' SOUL

Robert Macmillan

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May 3, 2002, 5:39:18 AM5/3/02
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"Paul Rudin" <Paul_...@scientia.com> wrote in message
news:uwuula...@scientia.com...

> >>>>> "RM" == Robert Macmillan <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> writes:
>
> [snip horribly formatted cited text]
>
> You asked to be told: your quoted text looks 'orrid.

It does, and I'm sorry. I don't know what the answer is yet.


Robert


Hugo 'NOx' Tyson

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May 3, 2002, 5:52:10 AM5/3/02
to

Jon Green <jo...@deadspam.com> writes:
> On Fri, 3 May 2002 02:39:24 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
> <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >ABBEY
> >Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
> >Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
> >Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)
>
> ...but not in Abbey, it seems!
>
> I wonder what caused the huge swing away from the Lib Dems. Perhaps
> it was because (he commented, pointedly) they didn't appear to canvas
> or leaflet in the area? (Well, not where we live, anyway.)

Not to discount the other good followups, but...

The figures suggest that that ward changed boundaries since last time. 900
votes in all (for them 3) instead of 2400! Did it? Does that account for
it? If not, how come the figures are so odd?

- Huge

Paul Oldham

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May 3, 2002, 5:48:00 AM5/3/02
to
In article <obj4du847nsn4k0ka...@4ax.com>,
jo...@deadspam.com (Jon Green) growled:

> The Cons got something of a spanking, too. Guess what? They didn't
> canvas or leaflet, either.

The one that interested me was East Chesterton, where they did leaflet,
and they suffered a big swing against them compared to the rest of the
City. I can't help but smell a touch of racism in that result.

Paul Rudin

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May 3, 2002, 6:06:26 AM5/3/02
to
>>>>> "RM" == Robert Macmillan <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> writes:

RM> I don't know what the answer is yet.

I do: get rid of OE :-)

--
YOW! I can see 1987!! PRESIDENT FORD is doing the REMAKE of "PAGAN
LOVE SONG"...he's playing ESTHER WILLIAMS!!

Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 6:03:20 AM5/3/02
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"Hugo 'NOx' Tyson" <hm...@surfingsuggestionx.co.ukx> wrote in message
news:m3helpl...@foo.surfingsuggestion.co.uk...

The ward boundaries change next year, not this.

The reason is that there was a general election last year on the same day as
the (county) local election, and general elections get higher turnout, and
most (but not all) people who turn out for the general election will also
vote in the local election when they're given two ballot papers, even if
they didn't actually know that there was a local election on.

Comparison with the last local-only election in 2000 might be more helpful
for some purposes, such as comparing turnouts, but less so for others as it
would ignore a year of switching.

Jennifer Liddle

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May 3, 2002, 8:09:43 AM5/3/02
to
Paul Oldham wibbled:

> The one that interested me was East Chesterton, where they did leaflet,
> and they suffered a big swing against them compared to the rest of the
> City. I can't help but smell a touch of racism in that result.

I'm afraid so. I canvassed one gentleman who said he wasn't voting because
"I'm a Tory, but I'm not voting for *him*".

Robert Macmillan

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May 3, 2002, 6:00:56 AM5/3/02
to

"Paul Rudin" <Paul_...@scientia.com> wrote in message
news:ug019a...@scientia.com...

> >>>>> "RM" == Robert Macmillan <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> writes:
>
> RM> I don't know what the answer is yet.
>
> I do: get rid of OE :-)

Well, I'm not committed to it yet. But I think I should give it more of a
chance before giving up on it.


Robert


Mark Ayliffe

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May 3, 2002, 6:16:42 AM5/3/02
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"Robert Macmillan" <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aatnkb$nm3$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...

I've not noticed anyone being offended by my using OE, and it's just
the simplest option for me here. I've many irritations with it (like,
why can't I stop it putting the space after the > quoting marker?),
but nothing which makes it a showstopper yet.

Still, we're about to change ISPs and if the new newsserver is rubbish
enough then I'll be reduced to Google I suppose. :(

Mark


Jon Green

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May 3, 2002, 6:31:03 AM5/3/02
to
On Fri, 3 May 2002 10:36:42 +0100, "Tim Ward" <t...@brettward.co.uk>
wrote:

>"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
>news:cpl4dugj6a107qaeh...@4ax.com...
>>
>> It was a combination of protest vote and supporting-the-little-guy
>> anyway, so it wouldn't have made any great difference, but thanks for
>> the info.
>
>If more people took more of an interest in local politics, and actually knew
>who their councillors were, chatted to them in the pub or whatever as Paul
>suggests, then Mungai might have done rather better.

Of course, that presupposes there exists a pub in the ward...


Jon (who can't get a pint of ale at the McDonald's, boo!)

Diana Galletly

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May 3, 2002, 6:27:25 AM5/3/02
to
In article <m3helpl...@foo.surfingsuggestion.co.uk>,

Hugo 'NOx' Tyson <hm...@surfingsuggestionx.co.ukx> wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 May 2002 02:39:24 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
>> <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >ABBEY
>> >Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
>> >Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
>> >Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)
>
>The figures suggest that that ward changed boundaries since last time. 900
>votes in all (for them 3) instead of 2400! Did it? Does that account for
>it? If not, how come the figures are so odd?

Last time there was a general election at the same time. People would have
gone out to vote in the general, and decided they might as well vote in
the local as well. It's the same in other wards (look at Castle's figures,
f'rinstance.
--
+ Diana Galletly <dag...@eng.cam.ac.uk> +
+ http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~galletly/ +

Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 6:28:58 AM5/3/02
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"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:5lp4du0b3ifiji8au...@4ax.com...

>
> Of course, that presupposes there exists a pub in the ward...
>
> Jon (who can't get a pint of ale at the McDonald's, boo!)

Ah, yes, there is that. Arbury has recently gained a pub, of course, with
the welcome return of the British Queen.

Paul Oldham

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May 3, 2002, 6:35:00 AM5/3/02
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In article <ogtA8.600$kb6.1...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net>,
jenn...@jsquared.co.uk (Jennifer Liddle) growled:

> Paul Oldham wibbled:
>
> > The one that interested me was East Chesterton, where they did
> > leaflet,
> > and they suffered a big swing against them compared to the rest of the
> > City. I can't help but smell a touch of racism in that result.
>
> I'm afraid so. I canvassed one gentleman who said he wasn't voting
> because "I'm a Tory, but I'm not voting for *him*".

I think you have a serious spelling error in the first line there.
Somewhere between "one" and "who".

Jon Green

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May 3, 2002, 6:50:30 AM5/3/02
to
On Fri, 03 May 2002 10:21:06 -0100, Jennifer Liddle
<jenn...@jsquared.co.uk> wrote:

>Jon Green wibbled:
>
>> (living in what's become -- perhaps through opposition party apathy --
>> the most rigidly Labour ward on the Council *sigh*)
>
>Don't be silly.
>
>It's nothing to do with apathy, and everything to do with lack of
>resources. If you don't like the fact that Abbey is a safe Labour ward,
>then get off your bottom and do something about it.

Thank you for replying to valid criticism with an ad-hominem attack.

In answer to your question, before I bury it where it belongs -- how?
Right now, *none* of the established parties is exactly in good odour
with me, and I certainly don't have enough time in the day to stand as
an independent, even if I wished to do so.

And this "If you don't like it, fix it yourself" argument is specious
at best.

It's your bloody party; *you* fix it, if you want to get (your
candidate) elected. Try being credible, and maybe people will join
and want to help out, come next election. Don't shoot the messenger
when the message is just a little too accurate for comfort.


Jon

Nicholas JS Gibson

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May 3, 2002, 6:50:31 AM5/3/02
to
"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:obj4du847nsn4k0ka...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 3 May 2002 02:39:24 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
> <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >ABBEY
> >Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
> >Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
> >Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)
>
> ...but not in Abbey, it seems!
>
> I wonder what caused the huge swing away from the Lib Dems. Perhaps
> it was because (he commented, pointedly) they didn't appear to canvas
> or leaflet in the area? (Well, not where we live, anyway.)

No canvassing in my bit of Abbey either apart from one Labour leaflet...

Nick


Paul Rudin

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May 3, 2002, 6:43:05 AM5/3/02
to
>>>>> Mark Ayliffe <mark.ayl...@nospam.pem.cam.andthis.ac.uk> writes:

> "Robert Macmillan" <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:aatnkb$nm3$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
>> "Paul Rudin" <Paul_...@scientia.com> wrote in message
>> news:ug019a...@scientia.com... > >>>>> "RM" == Robert
>> Macmillan <rob...@mbe-windsor.co.uk> writes:
>> >
>> > RM> I don't know what the answer is yet.
>> >
>> > I do: get rid of OE :-)
>>
>> Well, I'm not committed to it yet. But I think I should give it
>> more
> of a
>> chance before giving up on it.
>>

> I've not noticed anyone being offended by my using OE,

Well I'm not "offended" but your quoted text looks horrid as well.

> and it's just the simplest option for me here.

presuambly because it comes ready-installed with the OS?

> I've many irritations with it

So why not use something that works well?

> Still, we're about to change ISPs and if the new newsserver is
> rubbish enough then I'll be reduced to Google I suppose. :(

Ick... google is nice for ad hoc searching. But as a day-to-day way of
keeping up with newsgroups it's terrible IMO.


--
Will this never-ending series of PLEASURABLE EVENTS never cease?

Tim Ward

unread,
May 3, 2002, 6:59:10 AM5/3/02
to
"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:mqp4duk0aivd5j15i...@4ax.com...

>
> In answer to your question, before I bury it where it belongs -- how?
> Right now, *none* of the established parties is exactly in good odour
> with me, and I certainly don't have enough time in the day to stand as
> an independent, even if I wished to do so.

OK, the serious, correct, answer to "how", in a system (which I know Paul
doesn't approve of) where you can't get elected without a party label, is to
choose the least worst party, join it, and change the bits of its policy
that you don't like.

> It's your bloody party; *you* fix it, if you want to get (your
> candidate) elected. Try being credible, and maybe people will join
> and want to help out, come next election. Don't shoot the messenger
> when the message is just a little too accurate for comfort.

Trouble is that you didn't give us a message. You just said:

> Right now, *none* of the established parties is exactly in good odour
> with me,

That doesn't give any party much of a clue as to what you think is broken
with that party and how you want it fixed, so even with the best will in the
world it seems fairly unlikely, simply in practical terms, that it can
happen.

And to go back to:

> It's your bloody party; *you* fix it

Not really. At least one "party" could reasonably be described as "a loose
association of people who quite often have similar approaches to some
problems"; it's not "owned" by anyone except the members, and the moment you
join you "own" it just as much as anyone else does. (It is rumoured that
other parties don't work quite that way, and have more of a system of people
being told what to think from head office, but I have no personal experience
of belonging to such a party and it's possible these rumours could be
untrue.)

Chris Keating

unread,
May 3, 2002, 7:02:51 AM5/3/02
to

"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:obj4du847nsn4k0ka...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 May 2002 02:39:24 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
> <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >ABBEY
> >Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
> >Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
> >Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)
>
> ...but not in Abbey, it seems!
>
> I wonder what caused the huge swing away from the Lib Dems. Perhaps
> it was because (he commented, pointedly) they didn't appear to canvas
> or leaflet in the area? (Well, not where we live, anyway.)

This doesn't explain the swing - we also mounted no campaign in Abbey in
2000 and 2001.

> Me? Given the alternatives, I voted for the independent. Didn't have
> a hope in hell, but at least it gave him more chance to avoid losing
> his deposit.

It was a real shame that he wasn't re-selected - I've heard many good things
about him.

>
> Jon


> (living in what's become -- perhaps through opposition party apathy --
> the most rigidly Labour ward on the Council *sigh*)

Blame First-Past-The-Post. Labour get 60%ish there, so both other parties
tend to put their resources where they can win.

If people in Abbey don't like this - and I know I don't - then they can
always stand themselves, with the help of a party or not.

Chris


Keith Edkins

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May 3, 2002, 7:12:18 AM5/3/02
to

"Tim Ward" <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xEtA8.957$jE6....@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...

> "Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> news:5lp4du0b3ifiji8au...@4ax.com...
> >
> > Of course, that presupposes there exists a pub in the ward...
> >
> > Jon (who can't get a pint of ale at the McDonald's, boo!)
>
> Ah, yes, there is that. Arbury has recently gained a pub, of course, with
> the welcome return of the British Queen.
>

It'll gain another five with the boundary changes next year! Not that that
figured in the Local Government Commission's considerations of course.

Keith


Chris Keating

unread,
May 3, 2002, 7:30:15 AM5/3/02
to

"Tim Ward" <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xTsA8.658$jE6....@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...

> "Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> news:cpl4dugj6a107qaeh...@4ax.com...
> >
> > It was a combination of protest vote and supporting-the-little-guy
> > anyway, so it wouldn't have made any great difference, but thanks for
> > the info.
>
> If more people took more of an interest in local politics, and actually
knew
> who their councillors were, chatted to them in the pub or whatever as Paul
> suggests, then Mungai might have done rather better. As it was one
suspects
> that people just voted "Labour" with no regard as to who the candidate
might
> be or why there was an independent.
>
> If I'd been living in Abbey I'd probably have voted for him. (Sorry
Chris!)

Watching the Abbey count was quite a sad experience. Though I don't know him
personally, everyone speaks very highly of his commitment as a councillor.
He must have been in an extremely difficult situation. In a sense it's a
shame that someone like me who didn't campaign got more votes... However,
that's the way it works out with this system.

Chris


Jennifer Liddle

unread,
May 3, 2002, 9:41:48 AM5/3/02
to
Jon Green wibbled:

> Thank you for replying to valid criticism with an ad-hominem attack.

I apologise if you saw my reply as a personal attack or criticism, it was
not meant as such.

> Right now, *none* of the established parties is exactly in good odour
> with me, and I certainly don't have enough time in the day to stand as
> an independent, even if I wished to do so.

If you don't like any of the established parties, then how would the
LibDems (or anyone else) campaigning in your ward help you?

> And this "If you don't like it, fix it yourself" argument is specious
> at best.
> It's your bloody party; *you* fix it,

There is nothing wrong with my party. You were complaining about the lack
of representation in your ward. You live there and I don't. I don't think
it's at all specious to suggest that problems in a ward are best solved by
the people living in that ward.

> Don't shoot the messenger
> when the message is just a little too accurate for comfort.

Please correct me if I'm failing to understand you here, but the message
seems to be "there is a problem with representation in my ward, but I'm not
prepared to do anything about it, I think you should solve the problem for
me. Oh and by the way, I don't like any established party, including yours."

Now, if you'd just put this blindfold on and stand against this wall....

Vicky Larmour

unread,
May 3, 2002, 7:32:58 AM5/3/02
to
In article news:QysA8.498$kb6.1...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net,
Jennifer Liddle wrote:
> Jon Green wibbled:

>> (living in what's become -- perhaps through opposition party
>> apathy -- the most rigidly Labour ward on the Council *sigh*)
>
> Don't be silly.
>
> It's nothing to do with apathy, and everything to do with lack
> of resources. If you don't like the fact that Abbey is a safe
> Labour ward, then get off your bottom and do something about it.
> I can't, because I'm too busy in my own ward.

Hmmm. Jifl and I have delivered leaflets in Abbey for the LibDems
before, but we weren't contacted this time to ask if we could do it
again.

Vicky
--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room
three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

Jon Green

unread,
May 3, 2002, 8:06:52 AM5/3/02
to

Look, if you've got one or two spare, any chance of borrowing them
until some enterprising publican can get Abbey sorted on a more
permanent basis? <g>


Jon

Tim Ward

unread,
May 3, 2002, 8:09:14 AM5/3/02
to
"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:v7v4du0pjq80amjmm...@4ax.com...

>
> Look, if you've got one or two spare, any chance of borrowing them
> until some enterprising publican can get Abbey sorted on a more
> permanent basis? <g>

Well, Abbey will be gaining quite a lot of territory as well next year, and
there must be some pubs in there somewhere ...

Mark Ayliffe

unread,
May 3, 2002, 8:08:10 AM5/3/02
to
"Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:v7v4du0pjq80amjmm...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 3 May 2002 12:12:18 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
> <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Tim Ward" <t...@brettward.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:xEtA8.957$jE6....@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
> >> "Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> >> news:5lp4du0b3ifiji8au...@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> > Of course, that presupposes there exists a pub in the ward...
> >> >
> >> > Jon (who can't get a pint of ale at the McDonald's, boo!)
> >>
> >> Ah, yes, there is that. Arbury has recently gained a pub, of
course, with
> >> the welcome return of the British Queen.
> >>
> >It'll gain another five with the boundary changes next year! Not
that that
> >figured in the Local Government Commission's considerations of
course.
>
> Look, if you've got one or two spare, any chance of borrowing them
> until some enterprising publican can get Abbey sorted on a more
> permanent basis? <g>

Or give them back to Castle, which I think won't have any after the
boundary changes

Mark


Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 8:07:59 AM5/3/02
to
"Graham Stuart" <graham...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:90vA8.90$mj.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Chris Keating" <cj...@nospcam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:aatqr4$nl6$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...

> >
> If people in Abbey don't like this - and I know I don't - then they can
> > always stand themselves, with the help of a party or not.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> Any Conservatives in Abbey interested in standing should email me. You
> wouldn't believe how delighted I would be to hear from them.

Instead of Simon? Or as well, because you need three next year? (Simon did
say the other two should be easy to recruit, because you'd be able to
promise them that they wouldn't actually have to serve as councillors.)

Graham Stuart

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May 3, 2002, 8:03:56 AM5/3/02
to

"Chris Keating" <cj...@nospcam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:aatqr4$nl6$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
>
If people in Abbey don't like this - and I know I don't - then they can
> always stand themselves, with the help of a party or not.
>
> Chris
>
Any Conservatives in Abbey interested in standing should email me. You
wouldn't believe how delighted I would be to hear from them.

Graham Stuart


Tim Ward

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May 3, 2002, 8:02:15 AM5/3/02
to
"Vicky Larmour" <vi...@jifvik.org.nospam> wrote in message
news:Xns92037FA96...@213.107.107.169...

>
> Hmmm. Jifl and I have delivered leaflets in Abbey for the LibDems
> before, but we weren't contacted this time to ask if we could do it
> again.

Umm, we were all a bit busy ... of course there's nothing to stop you
*writing* them as well, and printing isn't a problem.

Mark Ayliffe

unread,
May 3, 2002, 8:09:06 AM5/3/02
to
"Mark Ayliffe" <mark.ayl...@nospam.pem.cam.andthis.ac.uk> wrote in
message news:K4vA8.14$fS6.980@psinet-eu-nl...
<Horrid wrapping>

Eeek, sorry. Line length restored to 76

Mark


Graham Stuart

unread,
May 3, 2002, 8:07:59 AM5/3/02
to

"Vicky Larmour" <vi...@jifvik.org.nospam> wrote in message
> Hmmm. Jifl and I have delivered leaflets in Abbey for the LibDems
> before, but we weren't contacted this time to ask if we could do it
> again.
>
> Vicky

Would you like to deliver Conservative leaflets instead?

Graham Stuart


Colin Rosenstiel

unread,
May 3, 2002, 8:23:00 AM5/3/02
to
In article <obj4du847nsn4k0ka...@4ax.com>,
jo...@deadspam.com (Jon Green) wrote:

> On Fri, 3 May 2002 02:39:24 +0100, "Keith Edkins"
> <keith....@gwydir.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >ABBEY
> >Hart, Caroline (Lab) ...................... 571 58.6% (1396 56.7%)
> >Mitton, Simon (Con) ....................... 180 18.5% (540 21.9%)
> >Keating, Chris (L Dem) .................... 113 11.6% (414 16.8%)
>
> ...but not in Abbey, it seems!
>
> I wonder what caused the huge swing away from the Lib Dems. Perhaps
> it was because (he commented, pointedly) they didn't appear to canvas
> or leaflet in the area? (Well, not where we live, anyway.)
>

> The Cons got something of a spanking, too. Guess what? They didn't
> canvas or leaflet, either.


>
> Me? Given the alternatives, I voted for the independent. Didn't have
> a hope in hell, but at least it gave him more chance to avoid losing
> his deposit.

No deposits in local elections as Keith has pointed out.

The change is to be expected given that there was not a general election
on the same day, with leaflets distributed by all parties. Opposition
candidates in safe wards always do better in such circumstances.

If you look at the figures from the 2000 election in Abbey there is very
little change:

Labour 567
Con 224
Lib Dem 117

Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel

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May 3, 2002, 8:23:00 AM5/3/02
to
In article <aatomd$l50$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, dag...@eng.cam.ac.uk
(Diana Galletly) wrote:

And being a General election, all County candidates, especially in the
parties' weak wards, benefited from literature distributed for the
Parliamentary campaigns.

Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel

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May 3, 2002, 8:23:00 AM5/3/02
to
In article <xTsA8.658$jE6....@news8-gui.server.ntli.net>,
t...@brettward.co.uk (Tim Ward) wrote:

> "Jon Green" <jo...@deadspam.com> wrote in message

> news:cpl4dugj6a107qaeh...@4ax.com...
> >
> > It was a combination of protest vote and supporting-the-little-guy
> > anyway, so it wouldn't have made any great difference, but thanks for
> > the info.
>
> If more people took more of an interest in local politics, and actually
> knew who their councillors were, chatted to them in the pub or whatever
> as Paul suggests, then Mungai might have done rather better. As it was
> one suspects that people just voted "Labour" with no regard as to who
> the candidate might be or why there was an independent.

Slight problem with that plan. There are no pubs in Abbey! It's
Cambridge's only dry ward.

> If I'd been living in Abbey I'd probably have voted for him. (Sorry
> Chris!)

I've known Mungai for many years and would count him as a gentleman and
friend but he's not an obvious councillor for Abbey.

Colin Rosenstiel

Mike Pitt

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May 3, 2002, 8:20:10 AM5/3/02
to

So what happened to the Green challenge? I thought they claimed to be
targeting parts of Cambridge.

(Two third places: beating Tories in Romsey and Petersfield is all I can
see. Neither is exactly an earth shattering electoral moment in
Cambridge. :-)


Mike

Jon Green

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May 3, 2002, 8:37:17 AM5/3/02