Fake/Counterfeit Magic Cards

[Jason Salvano]

Thoughts?

• In a sanctioned tournament?
• On the kitchen table?
• In a cube?
• Are they different than proxies?
• If the card is in print or out of print?

[Josh Zirkel]

For me I consider Fakes and Counterfeit cards to just be really good proxies but also they are not real magic cards and their value should reflect that i.e. a proxy alpha dual is not the same value of a real alpha dual. That said Fakes/Counterfeit cards never feel as good as real magic cards for some reason and there is something nice about playing with real cards over fakes but I'd rather be able to play the game.

For kitchen table magic and cube/casual events, Proxies/Fakes/Counterfeit cards should be perfectly fine since you are playing a game for fun and nothing on the line. You should do whatever you want in your own home and considering the cost of a single card can be worth that of whole games. In sanctioned wizard's tournaments, I do not think at this time it is wise to accept Proxies/Fakes/Counterfeit cards. There is sufficient infrastructure in the secondary market to allow for players to get their hands on cards in "newish" formats such as modern, standard, frontier and wizards should require players to use real cards. Additionally allowing Fake/Counterfeit cards puts wizards in direct competition with Fake/Counterfeit mtg card producers which will open up all sorts of problems for them from a business and legal perspective so they should be justified in baring Fakes/Counterfeit cards.

When it comes to eternal formats such as Legacy, Vintage, and EDH I think proxies should not be allowed at this point for any card that is not on the reserved list since there is a supply of cards that wizards is trying to support. For right now Proxies/Fake/Counterfeit cards on the reserve list should not be accepted in official wizards tournaments because there is still a decent supply of those cards but wizards needs to gage when the supply becomes too small where older formats just die off because players cannot find the cards they need. If wizards wants to continue the reserved list while supporting older formats, then they will need to allow proxies in Vintage, Legacy, Commander tournaments or severely increase the number of online tournaments for those formats where they can "Print" a near infinite number of those cards since there is no restrictions on how many digital Black Lotus can exist.

TLDR: In your own home/causal: totally fine.

            Official events: No/ maybe for older formats

Josh

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[Richard Romanowski]

I consider them proxies and should be treated as such in all regards. So usually people won't have problems with them in cube/casual edh. But any sanctioned events, no. Unless it's one of those 10-proxy vintage ones, which might not even be sanctioned anymore. I think in 5 years I could see proxy legacy tournaments appearing, but that would be if all the reserve list cards, say, quadruple. Wizards pointed themselves into a corner with the reserve list, and will only continue to double down on it. Until maybe magic is dying (wait, isn't that every year?) And they try to breathe one last breath into it.

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[Mike Wall]

My feelings on the cards seems to mirror Rich's and Josh's. You're either playing with real magic cards or fake magic cards. Real magic cards have real value. All tournaments should be played with real magic cards. For kitchen table magic or a cube, if you want to play with a fake black lotus, go for it. It doesn't matter to me if you write "Black Lotus" on an island, print one out online, find some cool new art for it, or use a fake one. 

The quality of the fake cards has been improving greatly though, and I do think that is troubling in some ways. There are lots of people who do try to sneak fake cards into sanctioned tournaments. Perhaps more importantly, as the quality of the cards improves, it complicates the market for people who want to buy the real cards as they now have to be very careful. I played with some fakes last week, and while you could tell the difference side by side, the quality of the fakes was still remarkable and I'm sure they're improving. 

I've been thinking of building a powered cube at some point, which means coming up with some type of proxies for the powered stuff. I'm considering going the fake route, since they're cheap and easy as hell, and I don't think there is a problem with it as long as I'm not trying to brag about having some awesome expensive powered cube and act all cool. But I would be interested in cool alternate art/proxies if anyone has a good lead on where to buy or easy ways to print them. It would be pretty cool to have full art power that are obvious proxies, but look sick. I looked on ebay and etsy and there isn't much there though. 

[Richard Romanowski]

For art, check this thread out: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/artwork/340782-official-digital-rendering-thread or either link in the first post for digital alters.

As for printing, I'm sure you could do stickers or thin transparencies with spray adhesives. I'm sure there are other ways to do this. Maybe Staples has something?

[Mike Wall]

Rich,

Thanks for the link. I'll look into that. 

[Richard Romanowski]

I remember when I was a very active lurker on the salvation forums and they had some super talented and engaged posters. A quick glance at the last page of the thread seems that's still the case. Lots of people will take requests as well like I had my signature banner made by them

[Peter Mitchell]

The Romanowski banner = "tap an untapped creature, then loot... woot woot"

[Richard Romanowski]

Designed by Peter Mitchell with MSPaint