Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up
Geraldo
with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story follows)......With
Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS since
they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of Montreal?
Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
==============================================
'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
Edmonton Journal
Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of mad
cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I guess
any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but he
didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered after
testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had mad
cow disease."
On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate, Klein
goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow caused
to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
border fully re-opened.
The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said Klein
had been speaking sarcastically.
Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the practise
of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want the
animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case of
bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A person
out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
that."
Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when it
was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised catfish.
Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain closed
to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry millions
of dollars each day.
Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and these
cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
interest in maintaining the system."
Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the leader
of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart to
cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy, and
it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate either.
"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light, but
it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
reputation."
Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said Klein
was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into the
food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he said,
but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because of
one animal.
"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian, U.S.
and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads to
such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide BSE
cases.
In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable" way
trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow disease
will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when dealing
with infected animals.
The #1 Sharxster
"Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:Ud1ab.977780$3C2.22...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
LIEbrawl Agriculture Minister Ralph Goodale said exactly the same thing.
Can't you assholes understand what irony and sarcasm are when you hear them?
>
>
>
BigC
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com>
wrote:
Geraldo
have been that fat little creep....He should stick to seriously solving the
BSE problem instead of making it worse...Some countries will not take his
irresponsible comments as a joke and they will have the impression Canada
will do this in the future or has done this in the past...The whole
industry will suffer as a result of his irresponsible comments....All other
countries selling beef will seize this opportunity to seal the market for
good and shut out Canada permanently.
Maybe Ralph should follow up anything coming out of his mouth with..."Im
Just Kidding"...like on Saturday Night Live.
Or better yet think before speaking...He has done this so many times before
it is definitely his personality to be an arrogant fool and a liar.....This
one will cost beef producers billions...Ralph's legacy is "he destroyed a
faltering industry, that is a major sector of Alberta, with stupid
comments".
"BigC" <j...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:592assc95m562e104...@4ax.com...
Pham Nuwen
> We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure wouldn't
> have been that fat little creep...
I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
does, no matter what he does.
The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
candidates to say how they could do better.
--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I pham.n...@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
Tom2Tec
needless controversy. Now just watch all the overly affluent jump to his defence
and all the underpaid leap to criticize. I myself would just like to point out
that he wasn't very kind to the rancher and the PC's are on the de fence ...
again. Nor did his comments help in any way. Of course, personally I wouldn't
care, if my bills and taxes were lower and my wages higher. But we know that
isn't going to happen while corporations are calling the shots and paying the
way for political favouritism.
2tec ~ speaks two freely
PS Heya PC's, isn't it funny how giving money to rich businesses is good but
giving it to poor or old people is bad.
`Top Poster`
not be trusted, it is not safe
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
The #1 Sharxster <shar...@thesharxmanor.com> wrote in message
news:7l1ab.11544$jg7.2...@news1.telusplanet.net...
`Top Poster`
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
BigC <j...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:592assc95m562e104...@4ax.com...
Geraldo
that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
"Pham Nuwen" <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:3F68ABCE...@libertydice.org...
`Top Poster`
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
Pham Nuwen <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:3F68ABCE...@libertydice.org...
Pham Nuwen
> I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
> entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
> bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
> in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
> an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
up, or shut up.
Geraldo
DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
country...Go back home zipperhead.
"Pham Nuwen" <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:3F68B533...@libertydice.org...
Pham Nuwen
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
Pffftt!!! Fuck ok, I take it back you aren't just a crybaby whiner, you
are a Fucking TWIT too.
1) Who the fuck cares where you were born, an ignorant fuck is an
ignorant fuck no matter where you were sired.
2) WTF is a DP???
3) So far you are the one avoiding putting forward a solution, so I can
only guess you are full of crap.
4) "asian", how the fuck do you come to the conclusion I'm Asian? Ever
hear of an alias ya, racist fucktard.
5) "asian criminals", let me guess you will be the first to say "but I'm
not racist".
6) I am home.
Geraldo
Ralph's comment help trade asshole???..Is that issue to complicated for you
zipperhead???....Nations are ruined by isolation and that what Ralph is
doing running his stupid mouth again....watch the beef industry crater now
for 20 years and then maybe you'll figure it out.
"Pham Nuwen" <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:3F68C698...@libertydice.org... II No nation was ever ruined by
trade, even seemingly the most disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
>
`Top Poster`
--
Pham Nuwen
> ...And you quote Ben Franklin and the positives of trade...While how does
> Ralph's comment help trade asshole???..Is that issue to complicated for you
> zipperhead???....Nations are ruined by isolation and that what Ralph is
> doing running his stupid mouth again....watch the beef industry crater now
> for 20 years and then maybe you'll figure it out.
First are you reading impaired? If you are going to use the Franklin
quote to make a point, at least read what it fucking says.
Second, obviously your solution is EXACTLY what Klein joked about. Even
worse you don't want to shoot,shovel,and shut up. You just want them to
shut up and keep shipping Beef no matter what it contains. Oh ya, that's
real responsible, ya fucking twit.
--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I pham.n...@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
News
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
You may think he knows "...shit about issues", but it's clear you know
even less.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812536355/103-2006328-9287806?v=glance
Pham Nuwen is a character from a Science Fiction book. Attaboy, keep
sticking your foot in your mouth - your credibility just hit the
negatives.....
News
> ...And you quote Ben Franklin and the positives of trade...While how does
> Ralph's comment help trade asshole???..Is that issue to complicated for
you
> zipperhead???....Nations are ruined by isolation
I take it you've never spent much time in England. It's the most
self-sufficient country I've ever seen, and doing quite well. Germany is
another strong example. Isolationism isn't a good policy, but it doesn't
destroy countries. Ever hear of China?
and that what Ralph is
> doing running his stupid mouth again....watch the beef industry crater now
> for 20 years and then maybe you'll figure it out.
You're absolutely right. Because we all know that the entire world is
going to stop eating beef because of the comments of a Premier they've never
heard of. (In a province they probably can't find on a map) Thanks to
ExpressVu (Great product by the way) I get news from all over North America.
I'll tell you what, this was heavily reported in Calgary/Edmonton - but I
didn't see *anything* from Winnipeg or New York. (Yes, I know I watch way
too much news)
Jon Pike
> Geraldo wrote:
>
>> I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in
>> charge that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have
>> been doing their entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout,
>> bigmouthed, fool,...any imbecile could run this province with a
>> budget surplus as energy prices are bouncing off the ceiling....Even
>> though we have the largest budget surpluses in history...education
>> and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have an idiot
>> scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
>> comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget
>> surpluses?
>
> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
>
> Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said,
> put up, or shut up.
>
>
Sounds a lot like his hero ralphie boy there, doesn't he ? :P
News
"`Top Poster`" <T...@Poster.com> wrote in message
news:m24ab.3182$f7.248985@localhost...
> 'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
>
> Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> Edmonton Journal
>
>
> Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
> have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
<snip>
I'm not defending what he said, even though I do think it's being blown
*way* out of proportion for what was intended. Regardless, I think we're
all missing a key point here. We're Alberta......nobody cares. We seem to
have this opinion of ourselves that the world is watching. Trust me, they
aren't. We are about as prominent on the world stage as Zhejiang. For
those who don't know where that is, it's a province in China. (And
illustrates my point) Believe me, internationally speaking, Alabama is more
prominent than Alberta.
CalgaryBill
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
> "Pham Nuwen" <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote in message
> news:3F68B533...@libertydice.org...
> > Geraldo wrote:
PCs in an earlier post ... so who did? I say that you're full of shit
on that one, under the principles of a representative democracy (which
is what our system is). And BTW, Pham is not an Asian (look at
www.users.zetnet.co.uk/iplus/nonfiction/deepness.htm if you want to gain
some knowledge) .... shows that you can't understand anything about
aliases nor the Usenet ... makes one question your ability to understand
in general. And of course your outright (misplaced) racism shows that
you qualify as the dregs of humanity.
If you're opposed to the PCs, then you are probably okay with the NDP,
or the Liberals ... neither of which will form an Albertan government in
the near future.
foamy
"CalgaryBill" <Calga...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>What in the world is with you? You speak about 'we' didn't elect the
>PCs in an earlier post ... so who did? I say that you're full of shit
>on that one, under the principles of a representative democracy (which
>is what our system is).
Sorry friend, we do not have a Representative Democracy [ USA ], Canada
is a Parliamentary Democracy. Big difference.
Jim
a1b3r7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...
YA SHUT UP PHAM YOU STUPID SLANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
--
.............................................................................
Courage means going against majority opinion in the name of truth.
-Vaclav Havel
.............................................................................
ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com
a1b3r7...@salmahayeksknockers.edu
> 2) WTF is a DP???
==Displaced Person==Refugee.
--
.............................................................................
Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.
.............................................................................
ds...@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com
Phil Mattaleven
spewed your racist/biggoted moronic mindless statements (statements that do
FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
politician), therefore your credibility is now regulated down to zero-
*plonk*
"Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:ZM2ab.167835$la.34...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
Robert Weldon
news:mI4ab.9533$Y67.2...@news2.telusplanet.net...
Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
foamy
"Robert Weldon" <rweldon....@jrpspamblock.ca> wrote:
>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
Absolutely true. :-)
Jim
John Fleming
scriptorium, "Tom2Tec" <nospamfo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> $Oh no, here we go again .. not another provocative post about yet another
> $needless controversy. Now just watch all the overly affluent jump to his defence
> $and all the underpaid leap to criticize. I myself would just like to point out
> $that he wasn't very kind to the rancher and the PC's are on the de fence ...
> $again. Nor did his comments help in any way. Of course, personally I wouldn't
> $care, if my bills and taxes were lower and my wages higher. But we know that
> $isn't going to happen while corporations are calling the shots and paying the
> $way for political favouritism.
Joking or not, Klein may vary well have said something that hit
very close to the truth.
Some ranchers, given a cow that is acting funny, might very well
have shot the thing and buried the carcass.
I'm not saying this is typical of ranchers or farmers in Canada.
They aren't.
I'm saying that, out there, there are a few who, knowing what
side their bread is buttered on, might do something like that in
an attempt to avoid muking their livelihood.
Some people do put self interest ahead of the common good.
--
John Fleming
Edmonton, Canada
A Dreamer is One Who Can Only Find Her
Way by Moonlight.
-- Oscar Wilde
Mark
> have been that fat little creep....
Good to see that you're not biased.
Mark
Street Cred
>
>Gee, I ALMOST was going to sympathize with a couple of your points until you
>spewed your racist/biggoted moronic mindless statements (statements that do
>FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
>politician), therefore your credibility is now regulated down to zero-
>*plonk*
>
But "Geraldo's" credibility has absolutely nothing to do with Ralph Klein one
way or another. Make up your own mind on this topic regardless of how you feel
about the guy who cut & pasted the newspaper article. I don't think he was
looking for your sympathy in the first place.
>(statements that do
>FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
>politician),
If the entire world knew what goes on in these newsgroups the entire world
would think Canada is the most pathetic place on earth. Thankfully the entire
world doesn't, but they sure get more exposure to Ralph Klein's soundbytes than
the ramblings of a moron on calgary.general.
I think it's safe to say you're looking for any excuse to support Klein, and
you're seizing on Geraldo's racist comments to do so, which as I've
demonstrated, are completely unconnected.
Political Analyst
says...
A small group of individuals make the decisions in any organization, public or
private. Too bad the unwashed masses are too ignorant to realize that's the
way it has to be. But then if they DID realize it, it probably wouldn't have
to be that way! Ironic, isn't it.
The #1 Sharxster
> Geraldo wrote:
> > We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure
wouldn't
> > have been that fat little creep...
>
> I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
>
> I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
> like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
> wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
> what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
> does, no matter what he does.
>
> The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
> continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
> candidates to say how they could do better.
>
I doubt that that little cocksucking faggot's name will ever sully a ballot.
The #1 Sharxster
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
Well, he told you!
Black Jacques Shellaque
"`Top Poster`" <T...@Poster.com> wrote:
> Sharxs this is why many people stoped eating beef a long time ago, it can
> not be trusted, it is not safe
First, I am somewhat surprised that you are able to type something
original besides your usual bandwidth wasting "WANKER" posts. Second,
beef is safe. They have done the science, they have done the testing.
Has there been any case of anyone in Alberta...or Canada for that matter
that has caught spongiform encephalopathy from a hamburger or a steak
either recently or over the last several years? No. Just because
Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.
Stop acting like such an ass.
--
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.
Black Jacques Shellaque
"Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com> wrote:
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
bagged another dumb-ass racist.
Black Jacques Shellaque
fo...@telus.net (foamy) wrote:
Amazing how the Klein whiners point the finger at the provincial PC's
but do not say one word regarding our federal liberal dictatorship.
Bunch of hypocrites.
David Deilley
> "Geraldo" <I'mSo...@hotmaill.com> wrote:
>
> > You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> > DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
lets
> > you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> > country...Go back home zipperhead.
Hey Geraldo - the "zipper" was installed on YOUR forhead AFTER they did the
lobotomy... they were worried they might need to go back in again, AND THEY
WERE RIGHT!
Pam Spewin
spam...@are.vermin says...
>
>In article <ZM2ab.167835$la.34...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
> "Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com> wrote:
>
>> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
>> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
>> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
>> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
>Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
>tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
>bagged another dumb-ass racist.
>
Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.
foamy
>, Black Jacques Shellaque <spam...@are.vermin> wrote:
Just because
>Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
>al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
>that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.
I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
said it is another thing.
What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
animal and continuing with no one the wiser ? Are not all animals
checked when they are slaughtered ?
All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
sales, and for what ?
Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?
Jim
Black Jacques Shellaque
p...@spewin.com (Pam Spewin) wrote:
Oh? Please indicate the post where Pham uttered a racist remark. I
await your reply.
Black Jacques Shellaque
wrote:
> I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
> said it is another thing.
>
> What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
> animal and continuing with no one the wiser ? Are not all animals
> checked when they are slaughtered ?
>
> All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
> sales, and for what ?
>
> Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?
>
> Jim
I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
long run.
Determinator
> I'm not defending what he said, even though I do think it's being blown
>*way* out of proportion for what was intended. Regardless, I think we're
>all missing a key point here. We're Alberta......nobody cares. We seem to
>have this opinion of ourselves that the world is watching. Trust me, they
>aren't. We are about as prominent on the world stage as Zhejiang. For
>those who don't know where that is, it's a province in China. (And
>illustrates my point) Believe me, internationally speaking, Alabama is more
>prominent than Alberta.
I view ralph klien's foot in mouth incident as just that..
but he's got to learn to think before he speaks...
especially when trying to impress the people who can influence
the beef border closure...
Hmmm if we announced that Ralph klien had "hoof in mouth...."
(would it be that easy to get him out of office?? LOL)
Freddie Newsgroup
There is a disease that cattle can get called Purple Tongue. Now Alberta has
another problem called Klein Tongue.
"BigC" <j...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:592assc95m562e104...@4ax.com...
> He was just joking
>
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
Canada
> >with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story
follows)......With
> >Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> >premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS
since
> >they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> >Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
Montreal?
> >
> >Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
> >were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> >normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==============================================
> >'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> >Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
> >
> >Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> >Edmonton Journal
> >
> >
> >Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher"
would
> >have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> >disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
> >
> >"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of
mad
> >cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> >his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> >Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
> >
> >"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> >Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
guess
> >any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but
he
> >didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered
after
> >testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
mad
> >cow disease."
> >
> >On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate,
Klein
> >goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
caused
> >to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> >border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> >border fully re-opened.
> >
> >The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said
Klein
> >had been speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the
practise
> >of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want
the
> >animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
> >
> >But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> >damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
of
> >bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
> >
> >"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> >international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
person
> >out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> >that."
> >
> >Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> >suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
> >
> >Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when
it
> >was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> >Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> >Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
catfish.
> >
> >Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
closed
> >to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
millions
> >of dollars each day.
> >
> >Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> >hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and
these
> >cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> >interest in maintaining the system."
> >
> >Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the
leader
> >of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart
to
> >cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy,
and
> >it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate
either.
> >
> >"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
but
> >it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> >reputation."
> >
> >Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
Klein
> >was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
the
> >food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he
said,
> >but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because
of
> >one animal.
> >
> >"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> >concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
> >
> >Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> >would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian,
U.S.
> >and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> >asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> >introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> >protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
> >
> >As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
to
> >such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide
BSE
> >cases.
> >
> >In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
way
> >trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
disease
> >will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when
dealing
> >with infected animals.
> >
> >
> >
>
foamy
.telus.net>, Black Jacques Shellaque <spam...@are.vermin> wrote:
>I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
>would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
>and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
>investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
>then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
>long run.
Well I'm not really sure of that. How would anyone have known it had
mad cow if the rancher shot it. Even he wouldn't have known, right ?
Can you clue me in as to the chronology of this. How and when
was it learned the cow did indeed have mad cow ?
Are all cattle tested at the time of slaughter ?
Thanks
Jim
Kelly Eugene
No such thing.
"Ask me whether the glass is half full or half empty,
and I will ask you how it can be half full without
being half empty at the same time"
Kelly Eugene
Jon Pike
@news.netidea.com:
>>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
>>
>>
>
> No such thing.
Ever hear of hitler, stalin, or mao tse tung? They were all elected.
> "Ask me whether the glass is half full or half empty,
> and I will ask you how it can be half full without
> being half empty at the same time"
>
> Kelly Eugene
I'd like to see how you figure that one works.
Iam
<nospamfo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Oh no, here we go again .. not another provocative post about yet another
>needless controversy. Now just watch all the overly affluent jump to his defence
>and all the underpaid leap to criticize. I myself would just like to point out
>that he wasn't very kind to the rancher and the PC's are on the de fence ...
>again. Nor did his comments help in any way. Of course, personally I wouldn't
>care, if my bills and taxes were lower and my wages higher. But we know that
>isn't going to happen while corporations are calling the shots and paying the
>way for political favouritism.
>
>2tec ~ speaks two freely
>
>PS Heya PC's, isn't it funny how giving money to rich businesses is good but
>giving it to poor or old people is bad.
Yeah, I still haven't figured out why when there was such a beef glut
on the market the government didn't step in and say "hey, let's give
the people a break and reduce prices" - instead the government wanted
the farmers to kill and burn all the meat. All in the name of keeping
prices high. Same thing happened with our pork...same thing with the
tire tax...the company that gets the 4.00 a tire showed a huge profit
this year and instead of the government saying "drop the prices to
consumer's" the government told them that they had better spend it on
research or something.....watch...I bet the wages skyrocket just like
at Capital Health Region, Bill Smith and Council, etc. etc. I just
don't understand what is going on in this country today...
>
>
Pham Nuwen
> Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.
WTF??? How do you figure this?
Eddy Arnold
cost $101.35. Must be one hell of a strong demand if it sells for that much.
Chris M Tyler wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:27:52 GMT, Pham Nuwen <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote:
>
> > Geraldo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> > > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
> > > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> > > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
> > > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
> > > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
> > > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> > > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
> >
> > Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
> >
> > Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
> > up, or shut up.
>
> I hope the beef industry tanks in Alberta. If that's what it takes to wake up you hecks,
> then so be it.
Peter White
Eddy Arnold wrote:
$101.35 was the fee at the claims office I presume.
Will this cover assay also?
-Peter
Geraldo
meat sales since this began....Add it up...Louisiana farmer comes to Alta to
try ranching...One cow parachuted into Peace River with BSE and the Canadian
Beef Industry dies...The Texas beef industry was at or below breakeven but
now are enjoying a doubling in price and great demand....All because Canada
wouldn't help in Iraq.
"Eddy Arnold" <e...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3F69E7D9...@home.com...
Pam Spewin
>
>In article <GKaab.12071$jg7.2...@news1.telusplanet.net>,
> p...@spewin.com (Pam Spewin) wrote:
>
>> In article <spammers-A17993...@newsnews.telus.net>,
>> spam...@are.vermin says...
>> >
>> >In article <ZM2ab.167835$la.34...@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
>> > "Geraldo" <I'mNo...@hotmaill.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
>> >> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
lets
>> >> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
>> >> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>> >
>> >Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
>> >tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
>> >bagged another dumb-ass racist.
>> >
>>
>> Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.
>>
>
>Oh? Please indicate the post where Pham uttered a racist remark. I
>await your reply.
>
His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
routine.
News
"Chris M Tyler" <cmt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fgojmvold63vgp5el...@4ax.com...
> Frankly, I hope I see the day when the Alberta government has to actually
govern and the
> Alberta voters take the bag of their heads. Too many Albertans don't
think for themselves
> and simply follow the cow in front. When was the last time Alberta
changed governments?
Geez. Let it go man, we all know you hate Klein. Point made. Reading
the same spastic comments in every post is going to leave you in a lot of
killfiles.
And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?
News
The excuses for
> his "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" comments are just that, excuses. If it was a
joke, then it
> was pretty irresponsible. If he's frustrated, well it's about time the
Alberta PC's and
> their fool of a leader have been challenged with a crisis. These clowns
have sat back on
> their lazy asses for too many years relying on the oil & gas royalties to
make them look
> good. You know what they say about a crisis, "it doesn't build character
it merely
> reveals it."
Shut the fuck up. Or at least go back to Ontario. (Or wherever out
east you were raised) You sit here and bitch and offer up ZERO solutions.
ZERO!! That's the type of behavoir we expect from the Provincial Liberals,
all bitch no fix. That's exactly why they won't touch Provincial Power for
another couple of decades. If things are so freaking bad here, why stay?
> I think it's pretty evident that Klein is back on the bottle.
Couldn't be any worse than the shit you're smoking.
Pham Nuwen
> His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
> about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
> routine.
Bollix!
Pham Nuwen
> So what does that make Pham?
a fictional character in a book.
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
D> Hmmm if we announced that Ralph klien had "hoof in mouth...."
D>
D>
D> (would it be that easy to get him out of office?? LOL)
Nah -- all you'd do then is close off one possible destination to kick him out
towards!
Your friend,
<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers
(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-
--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
D> but he's got to learn to think before he speaks...
D>
D> especially when trying to impress the people who can influence
D> the beef border closure...
Why should Klein be held to higher standards than BC's "premier"? :|
Who, being an MLA(member of the assembly responsible for making LAWS!!), did
embarrassingly break a most un-PC law while visiting our largest trade
partner!
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
BS> "`Top Poster`" <T...@Poster.com> wrote:
BS>
BS> > Sharxs this is why many people stoped eating beef a long time ago, it ca
BS> > not be trusted, it is not safe
BS>
BS>
BS> First, I am somewhat surprised that you are able to type something
BS> original besides your usual bandwidth wasting "WANKER" posts. Second,
BS> beef is safe. They have done the science, they have done the testing.
BS> Has there been any case of anyone in Alberta...or Canada for that matter
BS> that has caught spongiform encephalopathy from a hamburger or a steak
BS> either recently or over the last several years? No. Just because
BS> Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
BS> al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
BS> that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.
He didn't say that all beef was BAD -- just that it CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!
This is quite sensible -- the beef industry is not there to provide a good &
safe product, primarily -- primarily, they are there to make their PROFITS!!
This is why the cows were fed ground up BEEF as part of their diet -- waste
not is a key axiom for saving/making money! Of course, the very fact that
cows are, by nature, HERBIVEROUS, and NOT meat eaters, was never a
consideration that there MIGHT be dangers in playing God with Nature!
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
BS> but do not say one word regarding our federal liberal dictatorship.
BS> Bunch of hypocrites.
Not necessarely "hypocrites" just "people who are short-sighted and/or have
tunnel vision where politics involving their local domain is involved"!
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
"D> "Black Jacques Shellaque" <spam...@are.vermin> wrote
"D>
"D> > "Geraldo" <I'mSo...@hotmaill.com> wrote:
"D> >
"D> > > You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
"D> > > DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
"D> lets
"D> > > you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
"D> > > country...Go back home zipperhead.
"D>
"D> Hey Geraldo - the "zipper" was installed on YOUR forhead AFTER they did th
"D> lobotomy... they were worried they might need to go back in again, AND THE
"D> WERE RIGHT!
"D>
"D>
"D> > Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
"D> > tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
"D> > bagged another dumb-ass racist.
Pretty typical of Usenet debate -- jump in and pound away with an ad hominem
posting and completely ignore any REAL points made by the same prior poster!
If "zipperhead" refers to an acephalic condition of stupidity, then the last
sentence by "Geraldo" directly calls you "stupid" in a less colloquial wording,
but you completely ignored the point made there, and the attempt, by that
poster, to provide support for the claim!
I'll give you credit, though, unlike most, you didn't completely DELETE the
sentence that incriminates you in your kneejerk attack!
So Usenet is the CIVILIZED version of the Roman Collisseum, eh? :|
What a crock!
Call me the guy in the Collisseum audience who is catcalling the fighter who
kicked his opponent in the balls, rather than go one-on-one with the short
swords!
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
F> Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?
Who says it was ever about public safety? :|
Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular support)
for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|
Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he seemingly
work AGAINST such?!?!? :|
And, if it IS monetary profits, then from WHERE/WHOM???
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
BS> I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
BS> would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
BS> and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
BS> investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
BS> then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
BS> long run.
some clever reporter, my ass!
More like a deliberate & timily leak TO some LUCKY reporter, when such a
blown-up expos‚ would serve someone's purposes!
Does anybody pay attention to how the media works in this country? :|
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
F> As I see it, many other countries have learned a lesson here.
F> Don't tell the truth... shoot, shovel, and shut up.
F>
F> How does that help the safety of Beef in the US or Japan? Well it
F> doesn't does it. I'd be suspicious of Beef from anywhere until they can
F> guarantee 100% testing of each slaughtered animal. This doesn't mean I'm
F> not going to eat Beef, but I'm sure everyone who eats Beef would feel
F> safer if each animal were inspected/tested.
If you want beef and want to know that it's good & clean/safe to eat, buy
kosher beef from a Jewish butcher!
(like Omnitsky's in Vancouver on Cambie (near 42nd)
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
"N> He was drunk. Again.
Perhaps Klein & Campbell are stranger bedfellows than we might have thought!
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
F> >would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
F> >and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
F> >investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
F> >then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
F> >long run.
F>
F> Well I'm not really sure of that. How would anyone have known it had
F> mad cow if the rancher shot it. Even he wouldn't have known, right ?
I think there's something positive to be said for a farmer who is willing to
sacrifice potential profits just to be extra safe!
If there was CLEAR EVIDENCE the cow had Mad Cow, then the farmer's
responsibility, IMO, would be to test the carcass so that if it did have Mad
Cow Disease, there'd be a warning to then have the rest of the herd checked!
Of course, THAT would be a lot more sacrifice than we could expect! (ONE
suspect cow, sure, that's worth it, to avoid having the whole herd declared
zero profit/saleability, but good luck finding someone willing to risk the
entire herd, if the "3 S's" will do the trick!
Ultimately this is the question -- did the farmer shoot & bury one animal out
of consideration of public safety, or did he do it to avoid risk of the
possibility of AWARENESS that the entire herd MAY well have been exposed to Mad
Cow Disease?
(since truth is irrelevent to the Canadian public -- just give us a happy
PERCEPTION of truth and we'll shut up!)
gap...@vcn.bc.ca
> "Ask me whether the glass is half full or half empty,
> and I will ask you how it can be half full without
> being half empty at the same time"
Ask ME if it's half full or half empty & I'll point out to you that it's
NEITHER, because it's evaporating as we discuss it!
Ask my dad, and he'll say it's half-empty, and that that demonstrates that his
is an OPTIMISTIC personality, because, since his is half-empty, he's already
HAD half, and it can be refilled -- if yours is half-full, that's obviously all
you're GETTING!!!
Pham Nuwen
> And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
> If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?
Obvious, you give the NDP, or Liberals who have no experience,
leadership, vision, defined policies, or principles the reigns of power,
so they can sink Alberta into an economic morass like BC. <rolls eyes>
You know the other side has nothing of substance when all they ever do
is take the contrary position. Some days I wonder how many of these
people would start sharing welsh recipes, if Klein came out against baby
eating.
While it is ok to be full of piss'n'vinegar it is never ok to be full of
just piss, or vinegar.
Stephen Jenuth
> Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular support)
> for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
> manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|
>
> Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
> highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he seemingly
> work AGAINST such?!?!? :|
I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
harm to people.
In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
shoveled and shut up".
He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
of people, eh?"
Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html
But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.
Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
enough, it might have ended up on my plate.
That's scary, and should scare a lot of other countries when they
look at Canadian beef. Remarks like those of Mr. Klein, and the
ranchers do nothing to make me feel better.
Now the straight talking Mr. Klein may well have managed to get
some short-sighted farmers to applaud at his frankness. But if
I were a foreign country, I would be pretty leery at accepting
Canadian beef from other than the least risky cuts. I wouldn't
expect the border to be very open very soon.
But I doubt that Mr. Klein cares about the harm he caused the
industry. After all, he has my tax dollars to spend to bail
out the farmers.
Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
pound ($ 0.044/kg).
It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.
--
Best regards,
Stephen Jenuth
(jen...@homacjen.ab.ca)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
pgp/gpg public key available at http://www.keyserver.net
Robin
"Stephen Jenuth" <jen...@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:gWnab.3282$8D4.1494@pd7tw1no...
> In can.politics gap...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
>
> > Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular
support)
> > for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
> > manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|
> >
> > Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
> > highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he
seemingly
> > work AGAINST such?!?!? :|
>
> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
> harm to people.
I doubt you'd find an elected official in the Country that cares more about
the farmers.
>
> In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
> the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
> ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
> shoveled and shut up".
>
> He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
> trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
> to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
>
> Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
> as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
> but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
> would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
> of people, eh?"
>
> Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
> http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html
>
> But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
> industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
> trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
> through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
> slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
> then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.
Look, I don't agree with Ralph's comments, it was a stupid thing to say and
he should have known these things get taken out of control pretty fast by
the media sometimes. He should have stuck to his prepared comments.
That said, its pretty obvious to me he was kidding even though obviously
whoever reported it originally may not have understood the sarcasm involved.
I think he wanted to imply that America may well have as much BSE as Alberta
but perhaps they are little quicker on the draw - he of course was the
guest so he politely stayed away from pointing out we test more cows than
they do. If you listen to the clip you actually hear someone just beginning
to laugh right at the end of it so obviously someone "got it".
Ralph has enough people looking for him to screw up and frankly he has done
it in the past and it looks like he has done it again but there is no reason
a thinking person like yourself ought to get caught up in all the self
interested spin to a point where you suddenly have issues over the quality
of the beef. Believe me every Country in the world shoots a sick Cow once
the vet has said it won't get better - we call it humanitarianism. In
Alberta the vet also is required to order BSE tests if he suspects it may be
the problem - there is no shutting up.
>
> Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
> that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
> luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
> and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
> was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
> not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
> enough, it might have ended up on my plate.
No it wouldn't have, it was 6+ years old - we don't eat cows that old I
don't think. In fact at the 20-30 months age we eat them at they generally
don't yet express BSE.
>
> That's scary, and should scare a lot of other countries when they
> look at Canadian beef. Remarks like those of Mr. Klein, and the
> ranchers do nothing to make me feel better.
>
> Now the straight talking Mr. Klein may well have managed to get
> some short-sighted farmers to applaud at his frankness. But if
> I were a foreign country, I would be pretty leery at accepting
> Canadian beef from other than the least risky cuts. I wouldn't
> expect the border to be very open very soon.
> But I doubt that Mr. Klein cares about the harm he caused the
> industry. After all, he has my tax dollars to spend to bail
> out the farmers.
>
> Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
> so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
> but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
> some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
> my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
> pound ($ 0.044/kg).
>
> It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
> rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.
there is apparently a test out there that is newly available that can test a
living animal, if this is the case and it is reliable I think we ought to do
that, then we can remove them from the herds before any kind of breeding or
spreading can occur (yes I know it isn't contagious but you do this sort of
thing for optics - and to remove pre-disposed cows from the gene pool)
The Doctor
Pham Nuwen <pham.n...@libertydice.org> wrote:
>News wrote:
>> And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
>> If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?
>
>Obvious, you give the NDP, or Liberals who have no experience,
>leadership, vision, defined policies, or principles the reigns of power,
>so they can sink Alberta into an economic morass like BC. <rolls eyes>
>
>You know the other side has nothing of substance when all they ever do
>is take the contrary position. Some days I wonder how many of these
>people would start sharing welsh recipes, if Klein came out against baby
>eating.
>
>While it is ok to be full of piss'n'vinegar it is never ok to be full of
>just piss, or vinegar.
>
Dishonest Ralph does it again!
--
Member - Liberal International On 11 Sept 2001 the WORLD was violated.
This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
Society MUST be saved! Extremists must dissolve.
Ontario on 2 Octo 2003, VOTE LIBERAL!!
News
> --
> Member - Liberal International On 11 Sept 2001 the WORLD was violated.
> This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
> Society MUST be saved! Extremists must dissolve.
> Ontario on 2 Octo 2003, VOTE LIBERAL!!
Hmmmm, you're hardly biased.......
Stephen Jenuth
> "Stephen Jenuth" <jen...@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote in message
>> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
>> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
>> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
>> harm to people.
>
> I doubt you'd find an elected official in the Country that cares more about
> the farmers.
Come on. What has the guy actually done. Gone to the Washington
where he told the US government that we could hold out until
the end of August (curiously that's when the finally partially
lifted the ban), and now told US governors that we should have
hidden the problem.
No. All he really cares about is getting a good sound bite. Whether
it helps farmers at all doesn't really matter to him.
>> In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
>> the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
>> ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
>> shoveled and shut up".
>>
>> He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
>> trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
>> to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
>>
>> Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
>> as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
>> but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
>> would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
>> of people, eh?"
>>
>> Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
>> http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html
>>
>> But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
>> industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
>> trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
>> through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
>> slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
>> then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.
>
> Look, I don't agree with Ralph's comments, it was a stupid thing to say and
> he should have known these things get taken out of control pretty fast by
> the media sometimes. He should have stuck to his prepared comments.
I'm not sure it wasn't prepared. After all, this is not the first time
he's said this. Its just that this time he managed to get into the
NY Times. Good for Ralph. Bad for my pocketbook.
> That said, its pretty obvious to me he was kidding even though obviously
> whoever reported it originally may not have understood the sarcasm involved.
Curiously, reports in the Calgary Sun indicate that the ranchers do not
believe he was kidding. At least some of them actually support his
views, and even do so publicly.
> I think he wanted to imply that America may well have as much BSE as Alberta
> but perhaps they are little quicker on the draw - he of course was the
> guest so he politely stayed away from pointing out we test more cows than
> they do. If you listen to the clip you actually hear someone just beginning
> to laugh right at the end of it so obviously someone "got it".
Right...The problem is that Alberta ranchers haven't got it.
> Ralph has enough people looking for him to screw up and frankly he has done
> it in the past and it looks like he has done it again but there is no reason
> a thinking person like yourself ought to get caught up in all the self
> interested spin to a point where you suddenly have issues over the quality
> of the beef.
The issue isn't really me.
But other countries, that's a problem. They are likely not so kind
as me.
> Believe me every Country in the world shoots a sick Cow once
> the vet has said it won't get better - we call it humanitarianism. In
> Alberta the vet also is required to order BSE tests if he suspects it may be
> the problem - there is no shutting up.
Curiously, there was no suspicion in this case. But we checked it anyway.
As I pointed out, the question is whether their are healthy looking cows
which have BSE.
>> Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
>> that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
>> luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
>> and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
>> was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
>> not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
>> enough, it might have ended up on my plate.
>
> No it wouldn't have, it was 6+ years old - we don't eat cows that old I
> don't think. In fact at the 20-30 months age we eat them at they generally
> don't yet express BSE.
As I remember it was in the line at a human food plant when it was
taken off and made into pet food.
>> That's scary, and should scare a lot of other countries when they
>> look at Canadian beef. Remarks like those of Mr. Klein, and the
>> ranchers do nothing to make me feel better.
>>
>> Now the straight talking Mr. Klein may well have managed to get
>> some short-sighted farmers to applaud at his frankness. But if
>> I were a foreign country, I would be pretty leery at accepting
>> Canadian beef from other than the least risky cuts. I wouldn't
>> expect the border to be very open very soon.
>> But I doubt that Mr. Klein cares about the harm he caused the
>> industry. After all, he has my tax dollars to spend to bail
>> out the farmers.
>>
>> Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
>> so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
>> but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
>> some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
>> my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
>> pound ($ 0.044/kg).
>>
>> It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
>> rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.
>
> there is apparently a test out there that is newly available that can test a
> living animal, if this is the case and it is reliable I think we ought to do
> that, then we can remove them from the herds before any kind of breeding or
> spreading can occur (yes I know it isn't contagious but you do this sort of
> thing for optics - and to remove pre-disposed cows from the gene pool)
Optics is everything. We should test everything, and show the world the
beef we eat and export has nothing to be scared of.
Klein's triple-S proposal ought to be widely condemned, as should those
who support his stoneage view (even if it is a vote getter for him).
Robin
Well thats what Ralph was referring to, most Ranchers are aware they aren't
even supposed to ship "Downer" cattle. Regardless, the cow looked sick and
was directed differently.
Pham Nuwen
> The issue isn't really me.
Oh, I'd say the issue is very much you Stephen. You have been looking to
get your pink card into politics for years. You are exactly the sort of
Liberal whiner, that slams Ralph at every corner, and yet never brings
any real solutions to the table. Any time you do take a position it is
only because it is contrary to the position of the PC's.
You have made a mockery of the ACLA. I for one hope to Eris on a regular
basis no one ever entrusts you with a public office.
Black Jacque Shellacque
gap...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
>
>some clever reporter, my ass!
>
>More like a deliberate & timily leak TO some LUCKY reporter, when such a
>blown-up expos‚ would serve someone's purposes!
>
>Does anybody pay attention to how the media works in this country? :|
>
You could be right Pope...the triple 'S' solution would demand that a
whole lot of people, ranchers etc participate in that kind of coverup.
All it takes is one whistleblower to blow the door open. In any event,
it is more proper to be honest about the whole thing, IMHO.
>
>
--
"The future will be better tomorrow."
-- Dan Quayle
Black Jacque Shellacque
Pam Spewin wrote:
>
>
>His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
>about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
>routine.
>
>
>
What about libertydice.org do you find racist? All I see is a figure
holding scales in one hand and a sword in the other with the notation
"this site is under development". What do you see about this site that
is racist? Can you at least describe it?
Black Jacque Shellacque
Chris M Tyler wrote:
>
>
>
>I hope the beef industry tanks in Alberta. If that's what it takes to wake up you hecks,
>then so be it.
>
Why do you not like ranchers and farmers?
Black Jacque Shellacque
Chris M Tyler wrote:
>Frankly, I hope I see the day when the Alberta government has to actually govern and the
>Alberta voters take the bag of their heads. Too many Albertans don't think for themselves
>and simply follow the cow in front. When was the last time Alberta changed governments?
>
>
I would gladly vote for someone other than the PC's....there is nothing
better however. Ken Nicols and the Liberals? New Democrats? Ha!
Those two are the provincial equivalent of dumb and dumber. Give me an
better alternative to the PC's and I will be a vocal supporter. If the
libs and the ndp is the best you can do then quit wasting my time.
Tom2Tec
2tec ~ willfully wastes words
Probably Serious
>
>
>
>Pam Spewin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
>>about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
>>routine.
>>
>>
>>
>What about libertydice.org do you find racist? All I see is a figure
>holding scales in one hand and a sword in the other with the notation
>"this site is under development". What do you see about this site that
>is racist? Can you at least describe it?
>
try searching googlegroups, the topic has been covered.
Pham Nuwen
> It has a picture of a statue of a blind bint carrying a set of scales
>
>
Justice is not blind, only the legal system portrays her as such.
TheFifthBeatle
"Jon Pike" <Anono...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93FA578BC387L...@24.71.223.159...
> s...@netidea.com (Kelly Eugene) wrote in news:3f694978.7463937
> @news.netidea.com:
>
> >>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > No such thing.
>
> Ever hear of hitler, stalin, or mao tse tung? They were all elected.
>
Well, when there is only one candidate it's kind of easy to win.
Black Jacque Shellacque
Chris M Tyler wrote:
>
>
>So what does that make Pham?
>
You tell me. What are you insinuating?
Don Wagner
> In can.politics gap...@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
>
> > Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular
support)
> > for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
> > manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|
> >
> > Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
> > highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he
seemingly
> > work AGAINST such?!?!? :|
>
> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
> harm to people.
>
> In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
> the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
> ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
> shoveled and shut up".
>
> He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
> trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
> to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
So did Ralph Goodale, the Federal Minister of Agriculture. Your silence then
was deafening.
Don Wagner
Black Jacque Shellacque
Probably Serious wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>What about libertydice.org do you find racist? All I see is a figure
>>holding scales in one hand and a sword in the other with the notation
>>"this site is under development". What do you see about this site that
>>is racist? Can you at least describe it?
>>
>>
>>
>
>try searching googlegroups, the topic has been covered.
>
Can you be more specific? I did exactly that and came up with several
old posts of Pham's. The closest thing I could find to any alleged
racism was a debate on cross burning.
Dr. Fred Mbogo
news:KKsab.6318$Ph5.4432@edtnps84:
> In article <Upsab.6119$Ph5.5494@edtnps84>, spam...@are.vermin says...
>>What about libertydice.org do you find racist? All I see is a figure
>>holding scales in one hand and a sword in the other with the notation
>>"this site is under development". What do you see about this site that
>>is racist? Can you at least describe it?
>
> try searching googlegroups, the topic has been covered.
You might try that yourself. You'd discover that the accusation was
also well-refuted.
Pham Nuwen
> Can you be more specific? I did exactly that and came up with several
> old posts of Pham's. The closest thing I could find to any alleged
> racism was a debate on cross burning.
Oh, for pity sakes, it never even occurred to me this might be "Jeremy
Tolsma" Professional Usenet Kook. No wonder he declined to say anything,
he is still hurting from the last time I kicked his ass over this crap
of his.
Black Jacque Shellacque
Pham Nuwen wrote:
> Black Jacque Shellacque wrote:
>
>> Can you be more specific? I did exactly that and came up with
>> several old posts of Pham's. The closest thing I could find to any
>> alleged racism was a debate on cross burning.
>
>
> Oh, for pity sakes, it never even occurred to me this might be "Jeremy
> Tolsma" Professional Usenet Kook. No wonder he declined to say
> anything, he is still hurting from the last time I kicked his ass over
> this crap of his.
>
Tolsma? Is that the nutcase that Dan has also taken a few rounds out of?
Jon Pike
@corp.supernews.com:
You need to hit the books, if you think there was only one candidate :P
Jon Pike
@libertydice.org:
> Stephen Jenuth wrote:
>> The issue isn't really me.
>
> Oh, I'd say the issue is very much you Stephen. You have been looking to
> get your pink card into politics for years. You are exactly the sort of
> Liberal whiner, that slams Ralph at every corner, and yet never brings
> any real solutions to the table.
Too bad ralph never brings any solutions to the table either.
The #1 Sharxster
"Black Jacques Shellaque" <spam...@are.vermin> wrote in message
news:spammers-6F378F...@newsnews.telus.net...
> In article <Av2ab.3167$f7.248252@localhost>,
> "`Top Poster`" <T...@Poster.com> wrote:
>
> > Sharxs this is why many people stoped eating beef a long time ago, it
can
> > not be trusted, it is not safe
>
>
> First, I am somewhat surprised that you are able to type something
> original besides your usual bandwidth wasting "WANKER" posts. Second,
> beef is safe. They have done the science, they have done the testing.
> Has there been any case of anyone in Alberta...or Canada for that matter
> that has caught spongiform encephalopathy from a hamburger or a steak
> either recently or over the last several years? No. Just because
> Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
> al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
> that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.
>
> Stop acting like such an ass.
>
Huh? I still eat beef. A number of posters here, though, prefer to eat "man
beef".
> --
> Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.
Pham Nuwen
Yep. He is a one of the Vancouver idiots (actually I think he lives in
Surrey, which is like the Victoria Park of Vancouver).
Stephen Jenuth
The thing about this cow was that it probably was not sick when it left
the farm. It caught a cold, perhaps on the way to the slaughterhouse
and ended up being taken off the line. Had it not developed a cold,
it would have ended up as food for us.
Stephen Jenuth
> Stephen Jenuth wrote:
>> The issue isn't really me.
>
> Oh, I'd say the issue is very much you Stephen. You have been looking to
> get your pink card into politics for years. You are exactly the sort of
> Liberal whiner, that slams Ralph at every corner, and yet never brings
> any real solutions to the table. Any time you do take a position it is
> only because it is contrary to the position of the PC's.
Actually, I have presented a solution to the problem. Maybe you should
read it and then respond. Mr. Klein doesn't seem to have a solution
other than the triple-S.
Stephen Jenuth
> So did Ralph Goodale, the Federal Minister of Agriculture. Your silence then
> was deafening.
Perhaps you can come up with the quotation from Mr. Goodale which
suggested that this was actually a good idea.
Stephen Jenuth
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:44:12 GMT, Stephen Jenuth <jen...@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote:
>> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
>> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
>> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
>> harm to people.
>
> I think you might be giving Klein too much credit here. He's really not all that bright
> to think that far in advance.
Mr. Klein is very bright when it comes to deliberately making statements
which rally his constituency, even if he has to withdraw them the
next day. His career would be nothing without them.
Stephen Jenuth
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:44:12 GMT, Stephen Jenuth <jen...@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
>> so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
>> but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
>> some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
>> my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
>> pound ($ 0.044/kg).
>>
>> It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
>> rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.
>
> Excellent solution and it even passes the cost benefit test. Who says there is no viable
> alternative?
>
> Good post!
Curiously, I have been accused of not presenting any alternative and
simply dumping on Mr. Klein.
NaOmI
I don't think he should apologize for a damn thing!!! Do u really
think the Americans are honest with everything??? Come on..you are
living in Dream Land if u think they are soooooooooo honest. I was
born and raised on a farm all my life and believe me my dad thinks
Klein is an awesome premier and he wishes he was running his province.
and alot of farmers back home think that too.
Truth hurts doesn't it!!!
"`Top Poster`" <T...@Poster.com> wrote in message news:<m24ab.3182$f7.248985@localhost>...
> 'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
>
> Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> Edmonton Journal
>
>
> Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
> have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
>
> "It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of mad
> cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
>
> "This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I guess
> any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but he
> didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered after
> testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had mad
> cow disease."
>
> On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate, Klein
> goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow caused
> to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> border fully re-opened.
>
> The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said Klein
> had been speaking sarcastically.
>
> Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the practise
> of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want the
> animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
>
> But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case of
> bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
>
> "It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A person
> out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> that."
>
> Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
>
> Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when it
> was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised catfish.
>
> Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain closed
> to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry millions
> of dollars each day.
>
> Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
>
> "I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and these
> cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> interest in maintaining the system."
>
> Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the leader
> of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart to
> cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy, and
> it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate either.
>
> "I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light, but
> it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> reputation."
>
> Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said Klein
> was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into the
> food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he said,
> but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because of
> one animal.
>
> "What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
>
> Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian, U.S.
> and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
>
> As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads to
> such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide BSE
> cases.
>
> In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable" way
> trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow disease
> will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when dealing
> with infected animals.
Black Jacque Shellacque
Pham Nuwen wrote:
>
>
>>>
>> Tolsma? Is that the nutcase that Dan has also taken a few rounds out
>> of?
>
>
> Yep. He is a one of the Vancouver idiots (actually I think he lives in
> Surrey, which is like the Victoria Park of Vancouver).
Indeed, I have been through Surrey a few times. Definitely the armpit
of BC. I'm not surprised that a wingnut like Tolsma would come from there.